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I am having a hell of a time figuring out if I'm an S or an N.

But I have noticed that I think this a lot. "Get to the point!" I've started a couple new jobs lately, and each time I've been trained by a guy who would say something like "this machine, which I purchased back in 2007 and these safety folks said this and that about it...man those safety folks can be kinda crazy...anyway, this machine..." I mean it is just one pointless digression after another, and I find it utterly exhausting. Because I do need to know the actual important parts, and it's too exhausting to me to try and digest absolutely everything thrown at me because there's so much, a lot of which is probably pointless.

But I also wonder if EVERYONE would find this irritating and annoying. If a guy is supposed to teach you the ins and outs of a piece of equipment, and he takes 30 minutes to do it when a more efficient person could do it in 5, wouldn't that bother an N type as well? Nobody should want to waste their time....but then maybe N types wouldn't consider it a waste? Do they value ALL conversation, ALL ideas, even in settings where you have limited time to really engage with all that? Maybe an N type deals with the excessive whims of others by just mentally retreating into themselves?

Another example...my friend back in college was for sure an N, and we had to give an informal 5-minute talk to a teaching assistant on the status of our project. My friend wrote up a 5 page outline of all the talking points we should bring up in those 5 minutes, and it was clearly way too much to cover in just 5 minutes, but I tried to just go with it. My friend starts us off and launches into this grandiose speech, saying "this day of all days seems like such an appropriate time to talk about this"....4 minutes later, with 1 minute left, he hasn't even finished the introduction in his outline, so finally I barge in and try to bring up a few major points as quickly as I can before we are cut off at 5 minutes. Sure, my friend is definitely an N, but I feel like anyone would realize the mistakes he made and how impractical it all was. In other words, I question whether my ability to realize how impractical it was is really truly a sign of me being an S.
 

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Hmm trying to think if this is really mbti related or more so a lack of self awareness & communication skills.

Granted now that you actually point that out I can see a correlation with many Ns who pop into my head who can mind numbingly just go on & on & on & on explaining, but I can't say it's always the case or has not been sensors too who I have come across.

I will say maybe some Ns have more of a tendency to over explain where I prefer to just get the bullet points

Lol I did have an N boss who spent more time thinking of how to think than the time it took to do any of her work :laughing: I always found this amusing.
 

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I think you're S because its the S types who tend to be annoyed at anyone beating around the bush. What matters to sensor types are the facts and data, not the story behind it.

As someone who borders on N type (though technically a sensor type), I'm guilty of beating around the bush (my N side) but at the same time I'm irritated when someone does this to me (my S side).
 

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Anyone can be annoyed by a lengthy path to making a point, but the specifics will vary.

Some (probably S) will get annoyed by folks (probably N) going off on seemingly irrelevant tangents before they ever get to the point.

Others (probably N) will get annoyed when folks (probably S) provide too many details before they ever get to the point.

In both cases, the speaker will think the information they have is of vital importance (it *IS* to them) while the listener will become impatient and want to wring the speaker's neck in frustration.
 

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This is more of a Te trait, valuing straight communication and efficiency. In the Big 5 the corresponding traits are conscientiousness and extroversion iirc.

Going all over the place and explaining things in too much depth is definitely the Ne-Si axis, phlegmatic temperament, low conscientiousness or a lack of "proficiency" in the subject matter to know what to talk about and what to leave out.
 

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I find that kind of thing annoying too, not so much because I get irritated or feel like I want them to just "get to the point", but at new places of employment.. you're taking in so much information at once it's hard to keep on top of it all (unless you're a nerd and take notes) so extra.. fluff.. just adds to the chaos.

Not to mention, I practically zone everything out, when something gets a little off topic.. I sort of mentally check out.. I say sort of.. because, in these moments, I'm more focused on questioning what's being said, rather than what's actually being said, so I'd sort of zone out and be thinking "if he bought it in 2007, is it outdated? What safety folks? If they're kind of crazy, are they credible?" etc you get the idea.

Anyway, I think it's an "everyone" trait.
Surely we would all dislike this for various reason - not interested, want to get to the point, just here to learn, don't have great conversation or people skills, mind is elsewhere etc etc loads of reasons.
 

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I am having a hell of a time figuring out if I'm an S or an N.

But I have noticed that I think this a lot. "Get to the point!" I've started a couple new jobs lately, and each time I've been trained by a guy who would say something like "this machine, which I purchased back in 2007 and these safety folks said this and that about it...man those safety folks can be kinda crazy.In other words, I question whether my ability to realize how impractical it was is really truly a sign of me being an S.

I reckon the 'rambling on (&) on,' can be explained via the (E/I) dictonomy - more so than the (S/N) dictonomy - it is the extroverted energy (that is going to be fueling (X)-functions in the lower-degrees) that will be oozing that (S/N) content regardless: I have noticed, even when the extroverted is 'nervous' they indeed, amp-up the volume when it comes to "not getting to the point," (and in some cases, the 'point' is completely ambiguous / unknown) to begin with, or perhaps isn't even reached - to which I have to remind them, oi, "stick with the topic," of the discussion.


Which is why we have ::


"Rambing / Chatterboxing ENTJs," (Thinking-doms)

And

"Life of the party ENTP's," (good debaters, as well, eh?) -


_________________________



An ENTJ specimen can sufficiently "out ramble," an INTJ - especially the women. It is supposedly said the ENTP is a good match for the INTJ, rightfully so, as most INTJ's fancy (debating / running their mouths) on occassion, mini-ENTJ side-effects, I suppose.


Ex (1); I reckon, at some point, we have observed something like this:

How does that ENTJ know what 'hes talking about' (making such good, hard to refuse, consistent points! - but still so, "wrong? Someone, be a darling, and shut this dude up?")




An INTJ can out-argue an ENTJ easily, and can out-argue an INTP (re: J-exhaustion), but only the ENTP stands a chance due to their abilities to sufficiently argue with their (Ti). The introverted INTP with extroverted energy. The INTJ will be receiving (Ti)-fuel via their (Te) production along with the stubbornnes to soften on their position (J)-closure preference, which is there 'extrovert' energy source. The INTP will tire-out faster (this isn't even worth it to finish this), due to low-functioning (J)-preference, no closure is necessary to be hand.

Thus, "INTJ" are often viewed as arrogant, and a tad combative for the INTP-specimen, but not for the ENTP. The extroverted (energy) of Te can drown out (Ti), in spite of (Ti) being more, eh, analytically important to (X)-debate. Which seems to be why ENTJ's in general, are terrible at winning debates - in spite of having the capacity to "outtalk / over-ramble" the introverted-thinker with pretty solid (supporting-points).

I suppose, this is perhaps what I find most humorous about picking with my XNTP associates - or (P)-associates in general - in spite of getting along relatively well, there is always the "Oh no, here comes that fucking XNTJ!" moment.


Rather often; of course the forum extrovert(s) [I reckon are slightly more on the ambiverted side], regardless, but in realiy, (most extroverted humanoids) follow the patterns presented.


Hysteria is, in my view, by far the most frequent neurosis with the extraverted type. The classical example of hysteria is always characterized by an exaggerated rapport with the members of his circle, and a frankly imitatory accommodation to surrounding conditions. A constant tendency to appeal for interest and to produce impressions upon his milieu is a basic trait of the hysterical nature. A correlate to this is his proverbial suggestibility, his pliability to another person's influence. Unmistakable extraversion comes out in the communicativeness of the hysteric, which occasionally leads to the divulging of purely phantastic contents; whence arises the reproach of the hysterical lie.

鈥 C.G. Jung, Collected Works of C.G. Jung, Volume 6: Psychological Types



_________________


In other words, it is seems more of an extrovert thing, rather than ('S' or 'N') thing, if we are fixated offline - [in the real world], of who tends to ramble more about "non-things," or "unimportant" things, rather than establish more condensed, or short-winded points.

Rather - 'S' and 'N' perceptive-communicative styles, to myself, do not differ too much when it comes to "who has the capacity to ramble", and such distinctions seem to be more within (content).
 

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I reckon the 'rambling on (&) on,' can be explained via the (E/I) dictonomy - more so than the (S/N) dictonomy - it is the extroverted energy (that is going to be fueling (X)-functions in the lower-degrees) regardless:


Which is why we have ::


"Rambing / Chatterboxing ENTJs," (Thinking-doms)

And

"Life of the party ENTP's," (good debaters, as well, eh?) -

An ENTJ specimen can sufficiently "out ramble," an INTJ - especially the women.

It is supposedly said the ENTP is a good match for the INTJ, rightfully so, as most INTJ's fancy (debating / running their mouths) on occassion, mini-ENTJ side-effects, I suppose.

An INTJ can out-argue an ENTJ easily, and can out-argue an INTP (re: J-exhaustion), but only the ENTP stands a chance due to their abilities to sufficiently argue with their (Ti). The introverted INTP with extroverted energy. The INTJ will be receiving (Ti)-fuel via their (Te) production along with the stubbornnes to soften on their position (J)-closure preference, which is there 'extrovert' energy source. The INTP will tire-out faster (this isn't even worth it), due to low-functioning (J)-preference.


Rather often; of course the forum extrovert(s) [I reckon are slightly more on the ambiverted side], regardless, but in realiy, (most extroverted humanoids) follow the patterns presented.
I could beat the shit out of any ENTP in an argument and I dare them to try me.
 

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I could beat the shit out of any ENTP in an argument and I dare them to try me.
Do you mind elaborating (?) [What happened to INFJ?]

__________________



Arguing with XNTP's takes stamina; not (heavy lifting). Have you (ever) seen an XNTP argue (?) It less structural - a world-wind of points (clustered) into one seeking/on a quest logical-coherence, which I suppose is the irony of it. The ENTP does not "win arguments," because they are 'tougher' - or because they are sufficiently good at slamming out cold hard facts; and strength-training around ('logic') - but rather their argumentative endurance (not only are they intelligent) - but XNTP's can exhaust (from many angles) or the same - for quite some time. They have stamina via (Ti)-function; & it is the INTJ-specimens (Te) that brings the "drive" / combativeness that keeps the exchange sufficiently (going) - with the assistance of their higher Ti-usage. This 'extra' combativeness (re: stubbornnes) coupled with (Fi) in the tet; will sufficiently give the INTJ-specimen enough stamina to indure the (Ti)-dom longer.

The ENTJ (Te)-dom will wear-out quicker in spite of having the verbal-motor skills like the ENTP, & take more break(s) / blow-out within the argument faster, than the INTJ. I reckon this also touches on why we have a rather 'high' ENTJ populace; but they only ever group in the ENTJ - forum; and the few that expand into the "debate" section(s) tap out quicker than P users combined - which seems to be consistent in offline-affairs as well when decensending into more (Ti-analyical heavy) environments. Thus, very little ENTJ's have interests in 'debating' as it consumes more energy on their part (dealing with higher-Ti dosages) than INTJ/INTP/ENTP.

Remind(s) me of my interactions with Jamaia (ENTP) - demonstrably, she also "exhausts" her point(s) with stamina but I can say the only one willing to (utilize heavy-Ti) to maintain the argument being met with sufficient the (TJ) dynamics aim for (satisfactory) closure even though coupled with (Ti).

XNTP's argumentative style is (circulation [with high susceptibility to ad-nausuem / infinite regress) - and repetitive 'circling') of (X)-points until the opposite specimen is worn down - and calls a "truce". (Facts) aren't sufficient enough - these specimen(s) seek 'non-contradictory truthes'.

________________


Links provided ::


A (Se)-user wants to bang through the argument; - I actually think (Se)-specimen(s) are least likely to go on (&) on via long-winded argument(s) over the (Te)-user; they do not want to argue. They are just going to bang out the point. Tell it like it is.

Remind(s) me of Sensational's (ESTP) posting style (vs) Yoda's (the INTP). Similar structure; but distinct in content / approach - (Se) is banging out details; and how things happened - utilizing real-life examples about what happened this one time at (X, Y, Z). What is happening - (&) how it all occurred / went down -- the INTP will utilize an irrelevant example made (7)-years back from their storage-tank (&) cluster it into a discombobulated paragraph of "logic" for sought coherence.

For ex; How many dom-(Se) users do you see "arguing" on this forum (ESFP / ISFP / ISTP) (?) Reminds me of Pwowq (ISTP) - the (extroverted energy) is what separates Sensational's posts - from Pwowq's posts - never argues in the debate forum [never debates his points - nor expands / expounds on them]. Just one strong detailed sentence (&) nothing much more. But demonstrably, you can sense the energy in Sensational's posts - (&) she almost always expands in more depth.

As seen in Eskas (INTP) "debate forum," post(s) - he exhausts the participant with stamina (regardless of the soundness of points / argumentative skill) and et al. Even INTJ tire out after that after awhile due to (Te).

I suppose ISTP's (can be found to argue) - but it is not often, they are relatively indifferent, they also do not have the stamina because they are more tempted to add (Se)-into the argument; [and simply prefer not to engage on cue - without a sufficiently developed Ti].
 

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I think
Se says get to the point
Ne says what is the point
Te states the point
Fe can probably beat around the bush when addressing the point idk
Si I can see talking on and on and on about details and stories
Ni sees the point
Ti gives loads of meticulous data and definitions to define the point
Fi can beat around the bush and avoid the point
 

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I've been trained by a guy who would say something like "this machine, which I purchased back in 2007 and these safety folks said this and that about it...man those safety folks can be kinda crazy...anyway, this machine..."
oh that's so annoying. my dad does it all the time. i kinda do it too sometimes, but i try to keep it down because even i have limited patience for things like that.

anyway, you're gonna want more information to go on than the fact that chatterboxes bore you/ siderail you to figure out whether you're s or n. xD
 
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