Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll just get to the point here, I'm trying to date a gal who is why out of my league in terms of looks, but is also one of the only humans I've ever had an hour + conversation with. I'm sick and tired of being lonely, and I want to have someone as a companion who isn't another lonely guy or an adorable furred, scaled, or feathered creature.

So it's like this, I'm not hideous, but I'm far from pretty. I'm 5'9" 210 LBS and I've been told I have a nice face, but that really doesn't get me anywhere. The girl I'm trying to date is just stunning though. We are fantastic friends, but that's on the very rare occasion I muster up the nerve to talk to her. I think she has feelings for me, but she has openly said that she is somewhat picky about who she dates and I suspect looks factor into that. The only way I've ever asked out a girl before is through a handwritten letter. Every time I've done this, the girl quit talking to me entirely and has even slandered me and made fun of me in front of my entire graduating class.

So the question is, what do you gals think about these following things?

1.) A shy guy asking with a hand written letter
2.) Dating a guy who is considerably less attractive than you but extremely compatible
3.) Is it possible for a guy to have a second chance if you've turned him down before?

I really appreciate any insight that anyone gives me. Girls, guys who've been through something similar, or anyone who thinks they could help.

(Other useful information)
We're both 16
She's an xNTJ
I'm an INTP
I've never asked her out, but have hinted at the possibility before with little to no response given.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,699 Posts
If you're gonna go for it, go all the way. Be confident and upfront in your strategy.

Just accept the fact that she might turn you down, but you'll never know unless you ask. What do you have to lose?



Also, is this not an 18 plus section anymore? D:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,865 Posts
Don't ever do it through a letter - usually that will get you a weird reaction.

Be casual, don't make it a big deal. When you're already in conversation casually invite her out to do something. Have a place and date in mind - don't leave it open ended with a "sometime."

"So lets go get pizza this weekend, I'm free on saturday" for example. Don't make it weird and say something like "would you like to go on a date.. " just casually lead into the actual activity.

If theres any chemistry, then when you part ways, kiss her. Never ask a girl if you can kiss her. Thats weird too, just do it if/when it feels right. And don't do the weird huggy thing instead, that sends a friend message.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@Disfigurine
Eh, the way I see it is that you use your head and don't jump into anything that obviously has overt sexual content in it. Besides, it's still personality cafe, not porn cafe.

Also, thanks for the advice. I admit the whole up front thing isn't my specialty.

And as for the reason I'm nervous, well... this stuff has ruined friendships for me in the past. I'd rather not have a repeat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,607 Posts
and made fun of me in front of my entire graduating class.
What the hell?

So the question is, what do you gals think about these following things?

1.) A shy guy asking with a hand written letter
2.) Dating a guy who is considerably less attractive than you but extremely compatible
3.) Is it possible for a guy to have a second chance if you've turned him down before?

I really appreciate any insight that anyone gives me. Girls, guys who've been through something similar, or anyone who thinks they could help.
Chances are, she has caught your hints. If she hasn't responded to them but knows they are there, it doesn't seem favorable. A letter does seem a bit odd, but it is hard to grease the wheels with accidental verbal diarrhea. Highschoolers people can be shallow, but it's important to remember we are constantly reminded where we stand in terms of looks. To settle for less or to aim too high is consciously foolish -- especially for the young. Compatibility is not shy of appearance, and you are not of the age where your career is established and you have that card to play.

If you can overcome your anxiety, just ask. Be real. But don't expect anything. In a few years she will be insignificant and you will not likely even think of her (if that helps your courage).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
I wouldn't mind a letter at all, but I know a lot of people really look down on that kind of thing. Promethea's advice is great.

1. I'd be touched and write a letter in response.
2. Looks are one aspect of attractiveness that matter less than pretty much everything else to me.
3. Absolutely.
My answers to these questions mean little to nothing... Lol. Especially considering she's NTJ. Who knows? Haha. I'm with an INTJ, but I was passive when we were getting involved. If I'd been attempting to court him, I would have had no idea where to start.
I would definitely prefer someone to ask me to hang out over asking me to date them. Romance can develop anywhere and I prefer it when it's spontaneous. I would much rather someone ask me to hang out casually and then discuss their feelings while we were hanging. Plus, that way you could avoid the friendship being ruined if she doesn't feel the same way by continuing hanging as friends after the discussion. If she doesn't feel the same way, all you have to say is, "Gotcha, no sweat." and keep doing what you were doing before. That'll probably make her feel really happy. If she doesn't feel the same way, she'll probably be just as worried about it ruining your friendship as you are. If she does feel the same way, no worries. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What the hell?



Chances are, she has caught your hints. If she hasn't responded to them but knows they are there, it doesn't seem favorable. A letter does seem a bit odd, but it is hard to grease the wheels with accidental verbal diarrhea. Highschoolers people can be shallow, but it's important to remember we are constantly reminded where we stand in terms of looks. To settle for less or to aim too high is consciously foolish -- especially for the young. Compatibility is not shy of appearance, and you are not of the age where your career is established and you have that card to play.

If you can overcome your anxiety, just ask. Be real. But don't expect anything. In a few years she will be insignificant and you will not likely even think of her (if that helps your courage).
Ya, people are hell sometimes, but that aside, I appreciate the all is insignificant angle. The only reasons I've done letters for is that I physically shake when I try to say some of this stuff, (Social anxiety sucks) and I've always thought that something you make and put your heart into would say something about you that's stronger than anything we can verbalize, but I'll take it from the majority. After all, I am the one asking for help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
I just realized how much P was in my advice. An NTJ would doubtfully appreciate the spontaneous thing quite as much as me. I don't mean you should say, "Will you date me? Can I kiss you?" but make sure things are really clear before you act. Like, just ask her to hang out and if she agrees then tell her how you feel when you're together and see how she acts. She'll probably give you a pretty clear positive or negative response and then you can work with that. If she rejects you, my advice from before still stands. I just mean NTJs probably wouldn't be as into a surprising romantic gesture as an NFP, so make sure you're definitely on the same page before trying anything. I just wasn't sure that was clear in my earlier post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just realized how much P was in my advice. An NTJ would doubtfully appreciate the spontaneous thing quite as much as me. I don't mean you should say, "Will you date me? Can I kiss you?" but make sure things are really clear before you act. Like, just ask her to hang out and if she agrees then tell her how you feel when you're together and see how she acts. She'll probably give you a pretty clear positive or negative response and then you can work with that. If she rejects you, my advice from before still stands. I just mean NTJs probably wouldn't be as into a surprising romantic gesture as an NFP, so make sure you're definitely on the same page before trying anything. I just wasn't sure that was clear in my earlier post.
So give a hint that is neither overt nor understated right? I think I get you. She is pretty on the fence between p and J anyways. So I doubt it should be too much of an issue.
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
I'll just get to the point here, I'm trying to date a gal who is why out of my league in terms of looks, but is also one of the only humans I've ever had an hour + conversation with. I'm sick and tired of being lonely, and I want to have someone as a companion who isn't another lonely guy or an adorable furred, scaled, or feathered creature.

So it's like this, I'm not hideous, but I'm far from pretty. I'm 5'9" 210 LBS and I've been told I have a nice face, but that really doesn't get me anywhere. The girl I'm trying to date is just stunning though. We are fantastic friends, but that's on the very rare occasion I muster up the nerve to talk to her. I think she has feelings for me, but she has openly said that she is somewhat picky about who she dates and I suspect looks factor into that. The only way I've ever asked out a girl before is through a handwritten letter. Every time I've done this, the girl quit talking to me entirely and has even slandered me and made fun of me in front of my entire graduating class.

So the question is, what do you gals think about these following things?

1.) A shy guy asking with a hand written letter
2.) Dating a guy who is considerably less attractive than you but extremely compatible
3.) Is it possible for a guy to have a second chance if you've turned him down before?

I really appreciate any insight that anyone gives me. Girls, guys who've been through something similar, or anyone who thinks they could help.

(Other useful information)
We're both 16
She's an xNTJ
I'm an INTP
I've never asked her out, but have hinted at the possibility before with little to no response given.

Thanks again.
I wouldn't necessarily assume that someone who says she is picky is going to be shallow. My husband and I were both openly picky, but never about looks. If I had been scared off by the fact that he is conventionally attractive (while I am not) we might have missed out on this wonderful connection we have. There are plenty of conventionally attractive demisexuals who find it annoying that people place so much value on their looks. I know that my husband was relieved to finally find someone who wasn't just going after him because of his looks or earning potential, and he wouldn't have settled for anyone who cared at all about such things. There is no security in a superficial relationship. Looks change, but love should last forever.

The fact that you are able to have long, satisfying conversations with her is a good sign that your compatibility will work in your favor. I will now answer your questions:

1. A hand-written letter sounds like a sweet way to show an interest. Poetry, art, or music would also work. I initiated my relationship with an online message, and it was a huge success. I'm sure a hand-written message would be even better.

2. For me, compatibility is everything. I have never allowed looks to get in the way, because doing so would pose practical and ethical problems. Yes, I'm the sort of person who thinks picking someone based on their looks would be stupid and evil. I was fortunate to find someone who shares my feelings about this issue, and we are madly in love.

3. When I was still dating it was not usually possible for a guy to have a second chance once I turned him down, because whatever reason I had for rejecting him was not likely to change over time. However, this is not universally true. I have a cousin who married a man she originally considered irritating, and they are very happy together. Some women turn everyone down at first so they will have more time to decide how they feel. If she has turned you down before, it might not be a good idea to pressure her, even if you do it gently, because you may come across as needy or seem like someone who doesn't respect her boundaries. It's okay to flirt a little, but don't make her feel uncomfortable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
So give a hint that is neither overt nor understated right? I think I get you. She is pretty on the fence between p and J anyways. So I doubt it should be too much of an issue.
You should definitely find out how she feels before you kiss her or anything. If she indicates that she likes you, then you can probably go for a kiss but make it a quick one and see how she reacts before you go in again. You're both N types, so I'm sure reading the mood won't be a problem anyway. I once dated an ISTJ who asked me if he could kiss me every single time, and we were together for 9 months lol. I'm sure you know better than that. Also, a TJ is less likely to go for you after having rejected you. Don't give up on being her friend if she rejects you, and she could very well have a change of heart in the future, but I would not push it if I were you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
I'll just get to the point here, I'm trying to date a gal who is why out of my league in terms of looks, but is also one of the only humans I've ever had an hour + conversation with. I'm sick and tired of being lonely, and I want to have someone as a companion who isn't another lonely guy or an adorable furred, scaled, or feathered creature.
This is a good sign that testosterone is starting to influence your behavior, welcome to the world of male instinct! You want a feminine presence in your life to balance out that manliness that is starting to develop, but I think that you're manliness is not in sync with the already prematurely advanced feminine energy of this girl. If she's beautiful, and is really attractive to men, then chances are she is well grounded and in touch with her feminine energies. Find a woman whose values, looks, race that matches with yours, you'll have a much better time hooking up.

So it's like this, I'm not hideous, but I'm far from pretty. I'm 5'9" 210 LBS and I've been told I have a nice face, but that really doesn't get me anywhere. The girl I'm trying to date is just stunning though. We are fantastic friends, but that's on the very rare occasion I muster up the nerve to talk to her. I think she has feelings for me, but she has openly said that she is somewhat picky about who she dates and I suspect looks factor into that. The only way I've ever asked out a girl before is through a handwritten letter. Every time I've done this, the girl quit talking to me entirely and has even slandered me and made fun of me in front of my entire graduating class.
Look buddy, I am going to be brutally honest with you, I highly doubt that you are 5'9 and 190 pounds of muscle. If you were, I think some girl would have been innately attracted to your passionate ability to lift weights, and the values that you used to improve yourself. I couldn't help, but to notice that you mentioned the word "friend." Women unlike men, have the ability to think more clearly, men seemingly appear to have the brain directly attached to their penis. When women place men in the friends spot it usually means that she isn't attracted to them, and if she did, she would pursue them or push them away if she was in a relationship. Women don't only filter through looks, but through your qualities, values, race, and other things of significance and insignificance. The looks part does play a role, but it is not the absolute mechanism of attraction for a woman, as it is for a man, but it is still essential for building an intimate, and sexual relationship. They were making fun of you due to these reasons: they thought they were out of your league and you were socially awkward for being a coward, and having the tenacity to even think of them in such a manner. This my friend is rejection, it has no heart, soul or being, but a purpose to prove that being with that person would have never worked out. The crueler they are, the more immature their being is, since they are not relating to the human condition.

If she's the type woman that I think you are describing, and if you are attracted to beautiful women, I recommend that you improve yourself. I'm not attacking your entity, but if you ever want to share and to truly be able to relate to another physically beautiful person, you have to become one yourself. You have to embark on a journey to connect with your manliness to become a very strong individual and improve upon the physical, social, emotional and sexual well being. Find something that fills you with passion, and eventually everything will fall into place.

So the question is, what do you gals think about these following things?

1.) A shy guy asking with a hand written letter
2.) Dating a guy who is considerably less attractive than you but extremely compatible
3.) Is it possible for a guy to have a second chance if you've turned him down before?
Bro, stop thinking so much. Relax, and breathe, I would recommend that you read upon chakra to become more grounded. That manliness needs to be drawn out, and mastered, please do not be afraid of your sexual intentions. Women will respect your straight forward desires to bond, rather than a covert method to get them to like you. Humans in general needs to relate to one another in all aspects, and that includes physical beauty. If any of these balances are disturbed, it is highly unlikely that anything will occur.

Secondly, why should you become somebodies second chance, I think you deserve better than that. Find somebody else, she is not appreciating you fully, and you are a worthy human being that deserves love.

This is much easier said than done.
 

·
Grumpy old bastard
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
I think you are missing out the most important thing.
You had the first, great, hour long discussion you have had with someone for a LONG time. Do you think maybe she remembers that same hour long discussion, and how frigging rare that is?

I look for ladies based upon brains. I filter based upon Fe. Then I talk to their brains. I talk to their soul. If they don't understand me, I move on.
If they do understand me, then I look at respect, and then looks.

Beautiful women are hit on all the time for their looks. argue, discuss, engage their brains, look at their soul, and you will stand out.
I'm a decent looking guy. Told I am a heavyset solid 6.5 or 7.
I've dated 8's, 9's, and 10's by approaching their brains and engaging their souls. I'm talking 45 year old ladies " the high school football team checks out their ass" beautiful.

But I was in love with her brain and her soul, and she knew it.

Come up with something interesting which will appeal to her brain. Fine arts. meteor shower, presentation on quantum physics, dissection of a cancer, something cool the football QB can't compete with and she would be interested in.

Don't play the dinner game unless it is a COOL dinner. don't write fucking letters.

Do something YOU want to do, and if she is the right lady for you, SHE will want to do also.

DO NOT LET HER FRIENDZONE YOU. If she wants to be friends, say NO unless you want to give up all chances of ever getting a kiss.
 

·
Grumpy old bastard
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
also, hinting is weak. if she is xntj, she is as clueles about social cues as you are. and if she is a beautiful xntj, you have hit the gold mine for you. She does not understand her beauty and how powerful it is - all she knows is weird SJ's keep talking about meaningless crap to her for no apparent reason.

be blunt. come up with something geeky, and make it happen.

HURRY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,965 Posts
How about just asking her if she wants to hang out rather than 'date'? No strings attached. It's a solid stepping soon that doesn't have to pressure anyone into anything. I think you are seeking too much into it. I don't think this girl has even considered you in that way because she probably never really had much of reason to think about it. Don't jump so ahead. Take the steps, you know? You might freak her out if you just ask her like that. See how it goes from there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kanerou

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,296 Posts
Forget about your looks. You may think she's out of your league, but that's really not for you to decide. If a woman thinks she's too attractive for you, that's her business but don't start out by assuming that she feels that way, because that assumption is unfair to both yourself and to her.

Looks are highly subjective, and they usually don't even matter that much once there are other factors that make you attractive to a woman. She obviously enjoys talking to you, so take that as a sign that she likes you and summon up the courage to ask her out.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top