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ISTJs,

What things bother you about ESFJs? How can they avoid pissing you off lol? How can they really communicate and convince you when you're being cold or are in the wrong?

My ESFJ brother is having ongoing conflicts with his ISTJ roommate. Idk how she sees him but from what I've personally witnessed she doesn't seem interested in knowing him at all or treating him like he's capable of doing anything right. Perhaps she is a cold and unhealthy ISTJ. My brother is a good guy, very prone to insecurity so I'm trying to give him good advice to remedy the situation.
 

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How did they come to be roommates?

Perhaps she is interested only in being roommates as far as an economic space-sharing arrangement, and doesn't want to be buddies. Maybe she wants some peace and quiet, and he wants her to share thoughts and feelings with him?

To an ISTJ, the home is the refuge from the blah-blah-blah of the outside. It's a place of peace and quiet.

Can you offer more details?
 

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Wow, that must be an awkward living dynamic, both in terms of relationships and in terms of types. I don't live with my ISTJ boyfriend precisely because I've learned he needs his space or else he starts to get cranky. I'll sleep over at his place twice a week at the most because I know how important it is to him. Perhaps your brother is not giving her the space she needs, through no fault of his own. As an ESFJ, I want to befriend and be close to everybody, and I have this compulsive need sometimes to share lots of details of my life with anybody around that I have some degree of trust with. This usually ends up being my roommates (both are ISFJ) who at this point are used to me bursting into their rooms to tell them about my day. The ESFJ guys I know are no exception. But for an ISTJ, that would be like disturbing their den of solitude, so I can see why this would be a problem.

As for what to do about it, perhaps they can sit down and talk about specifically what annoys them and what not to do in order for them to stop getting on each other's nerves. I bet your ESFJ brother would be more than willing to accomodate once he comes to understand a little more about what makes her tick.
 

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When it comes to roommates, it's all about space. I didn't mind my extroverted roommates in college because they usually knew when to shut up and leave me alone (I don't mean that negatively!). The worst living situation I can imagine is living with someone who constantly wants to talk to me about their interpersonal life all the time. I'm drained just imagining that!

I don't know the details, but my guess is that he's probably trying way too hard to be friendly with her. You can't force things or try to artificially speed them up with an ISTJ.

One clear way to an ISTJ's heart is to tell and show that you appreciate them and the things they do. An ISTJ will usually say something like, "Oh it's nothing" or "No problem" but on the inside it's like validation-heaven: "Finally, someone appreciates all the crap I do for them!"

Say thank you, be genuine about it, and then give the ISTJ space.

These are really general things, but that's all I've got to go off of. Good luck!
 

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How did they come to be roommates?

Perhaps she is interested only in being roommates as far as an economic space-sharing arrangement, and doesn't want to be buddies. Maybe she wants some peace and quiet, and he wants her to share thoughts and feelings with him?

To an ISTJ, the home is the refuge from the blah-blah-blah of the outside. It's a place of peace and quiet.

Can you offer more details?
These are my feelings exactly. Thank God for istj's, or I would feel completely alienated. infj+female+minority= unacceptance (sp?) from majority (my own opinion).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
When it comes to roommates, it's all about space. I didn't mind my extroverted roommates in college because they usually knew when to shut up and leave me alone (I don't mean that negatively!). The worst living situation I can imagine is living with someone who constantly wants to talk to me about their interpersonal life all the time. I'm drained just imagining that!

I don't know the details, but my guess is that he's probably trying way too hard to be friendly with her. You can't force things or try to artificially speed them up with an ISTJ.

One clear way to an ISTJ's heart is to tell and show that you appreciate them and the things they do. An ISTJ will usually say something like, "Oh it's nothing" or "No problem" but on the inside it's like validation-heaven: "Finally, someone appreciates all the crap I do for them!"

Say thank you, be genuine about it, and then give the ISTJ space.

These are really general things, but that's all I've got to go off of. Good luck!
I think this is how their relationship was at first. I don't think he tries to be overly friendly anymore but perhaps she already has him set up in her mind as annoying or misunderstanding of her. I will definitely share this info with my brother, so thank you! I hope if he can respect her space and validate her more she can change her attitude toward him.
 

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My sister and my mom are both ESFJs so I like to think I have a lot of experience with that type. :tongue: I get along with them pretty well, but one thing that REALLY bugs me about my sister is that she has no respect for personal space. I'm not saying all ESFJs are like this because my mom doesn't do this, but it might be something that your brother is unknowingly doing that's bugging his room mate.
 

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My sister and my mom are both ESFJs so I like to think I have a lot of experience with that type. :tongue: I get along with them pretty well, but one thing that REALLY bugs me about my sister is that she has no respect for personal space. I'm not saying all ESFJs are like this because my mom doesn't do this, but it might be something that your brother is unknowingly doing that's bugging his room mate.
I am confused. What is personal space? :tongue:
 

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I am confused. What is personal space? :tongue:
She'll come into my room talking about random things while I'm doing something else and doesn't leave when I ask her to and usually have to physically drag her out....quite the process!

Personal space is just...hm...I don't really know how to define it, but respect for personal space would definetly be knowing when to leave me alone. ISTJs like their space :)
 

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I think this is how their relationship was at first. I don't think he tries to be overly friendly anymore but perhaps she already has him set up in her mind as annoying or misunderstanding of her. I will definitely share this info with my brother, so thank you! I hope if he can respect her space and validate her more she can change her attitude toward him.
Ooooooh, well... I have some bad news for your brother. ISTJ's have looong memories, and her impression of him that will be hard to change. Of course, this is all probabilities and tendencies, and individual cases are different, so who knows, but he might have to be very mindful of his interactions for a long while before he sees any real change. In other words, patience and space will be his redemption.
 

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She'll come into my room talking about random things while I'm doing something else and doesn't leave when I ask her to and usually have to physically drag her out....quite the process!

Personal space is just...hm...I don't really know how to define it, but respect for personal space would definetly be knowing when to leave me alone. ISTJs like their space :)
Lol, I knew what you meant because I do the same thing as your sister. My ISFJ suitemate stopped having personal space as soon as I moved into her room. I'm pretty much only in my own room to sleep...
 

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Ooooooh, well... I have some bad news for your brother. ISTJ's have looong memories, and her impression of him that will be hard to change. Of course, this is all probabilities and tendencies, and individual cases are different, so who knows, but he might have to be very mindful of his interactions for a long while before he sees any real change. In other words, patience and space will be his redemption.
Ah, I was afraid of that. Well that's good to know.
 

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I just broke up with my ESFJ girlfriend of 2 and a half years, and it was for the good of us both.

Total sweetheart. ESFJ's deserve everything in the world, but as an ISTJ I couldn't be bothered with the constant stories with no point and the constant need for attention and affirmation.

Honestly, I think if all ESFJs are like her, I can offer exactly what would have not pissed me off. I can only speak for myself, but I'm an ISTJ so maybe it applies:
1. No pointless banter - an ESFJ must not attempt to small-talk. Only say things that are important, insightful, potential growth/learning experiences, or things that are genuinely interesting or funny. If it's something only interesting or funny to the ESFJ, the ESFJ has to start asking themselves "Would [this ISTJ] give a damn about what I'm about to say?" I'm a very, very talkative ISTJ but ONLY when the topic is interesting and ONLY in groups smaller than 4 people.
2. Don't fish for attention/affirmation - ISTJ's tend not to be the champions of feeling expression. We're pretty developed in it and we have plenty of warm fuzzy feelings, but they're only going to be exposed privately (one-on-one), or in crisis. ISTJs like myself are probably not keen on giving out lots of love externally because we don't really need much of it to do fine. People who pester our peace to get us to love them is only going to get on our nerves.

If there's something ESFJs and ISTJs have in common that either party - especially ISTJs - will love, it's that both are big-time duty fulfillers! It's in the name for ISTJs, but ESFJs are crazy reliable duty/obligation fulfillers too. My ex was never late, and never once in 2 and a half years of dating did she forget, neglect, ignore or change a plan. She was 100% loyal and by my side through anything. If she said she'd be there Friday at 5pm, she'd be there at Friday 5pm, period. In a time where I was experiencing a lot of friends blowing off plans or flaking, it was very easy to appreciate someone who I was certain I could count on.

If your brother can keep himself from annoying his ISTJ roommate and just do meaningful things and prove his reliability and duty-fulfiller abilities, he might win her over as a roomie. There's a chance she is as you said unhealthy and cold, which would be unfortunate, but something your brother might have to just learn to accept if she's totally disinterested in interacting.

It's a shame because in my experience I find ESFJs and ISFPs to be some of the sweetest human beings in the world, but ESFJs just seem to have those certain things that make an ISTJ cringe (substanceless banter or neediness, in particular). It isn't that the ESFJ is a bad partner for the ISTJ, but I think it's more that the ISTJ is a bad partner for the ESFJ :p
 

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I just broke up with my ESFJ girlfriend of 2 and a half years, and it was for the good of us both.

Total sweetheart. ESFJ's deserve everything in the world, but as an ISTJ I couldn't be bothered with the constant stories with no point and the constant need for attention and affirmation.

Honestly, I think if all ESFJs are like her, I can offer exactly what would have not pissed me off. I can only speak for myself, but I'm an ISTJ so maybe it applies:
1. No pointless banter - an ESFJ must not attempt to small-talk. Only say things that are important, insightful, potential growth/learning experiences, or things that are genuinely interesting or funny. If it's something only interesting or funny to the ESFJ, the ESFJ has to start asking themselves "Would [this ISTJ] give a damn about what I'm about to say?" I'm a very, very talkative ISTJ but ONLY when the topic is interesting and ONLY in groups smaller than 4 people.
2. Don't fish for attention/affirmation - ISTJ's tend not to be the champions of feeling expression. We're pretty developed in it and we have plenty of warm fuzzy feelings, but they're only going to be exposed privately (one-on-one), or in crisis. ISTJs like myself are probably not keen on giving out lots of love externally because we don't really need much of it to do fine. People who pester our peace to get us to love them is only going to get on our nerves.

If there's something ESFJs and ISTJs have in common that either party - especially ISTJs - will love, it's that both are big-time duty fulfillers! It's in the name for ISTJs, but ESFJs are crazy reliable duty/obligation fulfillers too. My ex was never late, and never once in 2 and a half years of dating did she forget, neglect, ignore or change a plan. She was 100% loyal and by my side through anything. If she said she'd be there Friday at 5pm, she'd be there at Friday 5pm, period. In a time where I was experiencing a lot of friends blowing off plans or flaking, it was very easy to appreciate someone who I was certain I could count on.

It's a shame because in my experience I find ESFJs and ISFPs to be some of the sweetest human beings in the world, but ESFJs just seem to have those certain things that make an ISTJ cringe (substanceless banter or neediness, in particular). It isn't that the ESFJ is a bad partner for the ISTJ, but I think it's more that the ISTJ is a bad partner for the ESFJ :p
Aw, I'm sorry to hear about the breakup. Thank you for detailing exactly why it happened though because I am an ESFJ girl with an ISTJ boyfriend (of a little over a year) and any insight is greatly appreciated! We started off with a lot of the same issues that you mentioned here, but for the most part, we've learned to move past them. I was really needy for affirmation and affection in my previous relationship (with an ISTP) and that was one of the reasons why it didn't work, so I've been hyperaware of my neediness ever since and have made great strides in dealing with it. His lack of affection occasionally bothers me, but it also makes the times that he does show affection that much more meaningful. :) I don't feel like I have too much substanceless banter (and I especially know to shut up when he's busy/tired). I don't know how much he minds chatter though since his best friend is a girl (probably ENTJ) who never seems to shut up. I realize that his personality is probably not ideal for me, like you said, but I wouldn't want him any other way, and I'm just drawn to introverted thinkers in general, so lack of affirmation is probably always going to be a problem in my partners. He has an ISTJ dad and an ESFJ mom who are happily married, so I think it can work out. He says sometimes that we have similar goals/values but different methods of approaching them. Maybe if we can work on the second part, we can be happy and content with each other.
 
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