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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am embarking on a quest to get to know the personality types, instead of reading summaries and stereotypes. So, What should I know about you guys? Seriously, if these are the only things I ever know about ISFJs, what're the most important points?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you, I made a mistake in my post. It has been corrected. I was engaged in an INFP thread while I posted that and made a very bad mistyping error. Pun intended.
 

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Especially coming from an ENTP, here are the main things I would say it would be helpful for you to know about ISFJs:

1. We may come across as very closed-minded to you, but if you can show us concrete proof that a new idea definitely works in a practical manner, we will very likely adopt it. We often won't try something just because it "sounds good", which is basically the opposite of what your Ne tells you (since we have inferior Ne).

2. If we ever lash out at you in any way, it's likely because our feelings have been hurt in some way, and it may very likely be because of something you did/said that you would have never imagined could have been hurtful. Just like it's natural for you to say whatever funny thing pops into your mind, it's natural for us to take things seriously and be affected by it. We're not trying to make things difficult for you, just like you're not trying to make things difficult for us. But most likely, if we appear to be being very sensitive or negative towards you, it's probably because of a miscommunication that should be cleared up.

3. We are very slow to change. Be patient with us. Don't try to push us into things...that will more than likely just make us push against you. We are open to change, it just takes a while.

4. Our feelings and getting along with others is very important to us. If you value them and don't write them off as "irrational" or "illogical" (even though in some cases they may be), you'll most likely understand us better and have an easier time co-existing with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Especially coming from an ENTP, here are the main things I would say it would be helpful for you to know about ISFJs:

1. We may come across as very closed-minded to you, but if you can show us concrete proof that a new idea definitely works in a practical manner, we will very likely adopt it. We often won't try something just because it "sounds good", which is basically the opposite of what your Ne tells you (since we have inferior Ne).

2. If we ever lash out at you in any way, it's likely because our feelings have been hurt in some way, and it may very likely be because of something you did/said that you would have never imagined could have been hurtful. Just like it's natural for you to say whatever funny thing pops into your mind, it's natural for us to take things seriously and be affected by it. We're not trying to make things difficult for you, just like you're not trying to make things difficult for us. But most likely, if we appear to be being very sensitive or negative towards you, it's probably because of a miscommunication that should be cleared up.

3. We are very slow to change. Be patient with us. Don't try to push us into things...that will more than likely just make us push against you. We are open to change, it just takes a while.

4. Our feelings and getting along with others is very important to us. If you value them and don't write them off as "irrational" or "illogical" (even though in some cases they may be), you'll most likely understand us better and have an easier time co-existing with us.
Thank you sir, that's a fairly comprehensive list. I was worried that my typo would prevent me from getting any responses.
What are your perceptions of ENTPs? How do you see other types?
 

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Thank you sir, that's a fairly comprehensive list. I was worried that my typo would prevent me from getting any responses.
What are your perceptions of ENTPs?
I've talked about ENTPs in a number of threads, but I don't remember exactly which ones and where they are. I list a few threads in my post # 5 in this thread that talk about ENTPs some:

http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-for...constant-conflict-relationship-need-help.html

I also recently made this thread:

http://personalitycafe.com/entp-for...difference-i-still-dont-quite-understand.html



I have an online ENTP friend that I've gotten along with very well, and the two of us have learned a lot from each other.



Basically, I've learned with ENTPs that I get along with them a lot better if I don't take a lot of what they say too seriously (unless I can tell for sure that they're being very serious about something) because they often seem to just say whatever pops into their mind...it may not be exactly what they mean, and they may still be sorting out their thoughts and true feelings on something.

I sometimes have difficulty relating to ENTPs because they're so open to change that I feel like I can't pin anything down with them and know where they stand. This popped up in a few threads:

http://personalitycafe.com/entp-for...what-do-you-think-about-these-10-beliefs.html

http://personalitycafe.com/critical...rtrand-russells-10-commandments-teaching.html


I find ENTPs' needs to question everything, rebel against structure, and always try to move on to something new quickly to be very frustrating. ISFJs have a need for stability and structure, and ENTPs have the exact opposite needs.

There's a big battle between Ne and Si that goes along with ENTPs and ISFJs. One ENTP came up with a great analogy for the two functions, I felt. It was something like:

"To an ISFJ, Si is standing on comfortable, solid ground. To an ENTP, Si is like suffocating and being buried alive.

"To an ENTP, Ne is going out on an exciting new adventure to a new world. To an ISFJ, Ne is like being stranded out in the middle of the ocean being left to die."


Those are exaggerations, of course, but I think it gives you an idea of how ISFJs and ENTPs have very different needs.




Poetic_Anarchy said:
How do you see other types?
I can't really say anything too detailed without referring to particular types. But here's what I believe about all types.


Every type has their own natural stregnths and weaknesses. Every type will be better at some things than others, and every type has their own unique obstacles that they must learn to overcome in their own unique ways.

No one type is any better than any other type, and no type has an easier time in life than any other.

There is a lot of similarity and a lot of diversity among the people within any type. There are plenty of general trends that probably apply to most people of a type, but you can't ever assume something is going to be completely true about any one given person of a particular type.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm going to derail this thread a little bit (well, more like a lot), but I started it, and there have only been 6 posts anyway. @teddy564339, how did you develop such a non-feeler approach to discussions? In reading your posts in other forums, I'd have thought you were an NT.
 

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I'm going to derail this thread a little bit (well, more like a lot), but I started it, and there have only been 6 posts anyway. @teddy564339, how did you develop such a non-feeler approach to discussions? In reading your posts in other forums, I'd have thought you were an NT.
Hmmm....it's a bit of a long story. But I assure you, my feeler side is quite strong and prevalent. If you look at some of my responses in the first two threads I mentioned in my last post, I think you'll see it a bit more.


I think it kind of starts with the fact that until I learned about the MBTI, I always felt somewhat out of place for being as sensitive as I am. But when I first learned about ISFJs, the description felt so perfect, and it made me understand that I wasn't alone in who I was, and that it was natural for me, and that I could feel good about it. In turn, it made me realize that other types, particularly NTs, were also just being their natural selves.

So, it's helped me to understand how others are just naturally different than me, and it's helped me to understand how to adapt to them to a degree so that we can understand each other more clearly.

I also deal with thinkers alot...my mom and dad are both thinkers, and so is my best friend. My mom actually thought I was an ISTJ when I first told her about the MBTI. But I think a lot of it comes from being a male ISFJ...I've always felt a lot of pressure in life to hide my sensitivity and not come across as "soft".


Also, online for years I've talked to people, and in retrospect, I'm willing to bet many of them were NTs. A lot of times I used to respond emotionally when talking to them, and things would turn ugly. I would respond emotionally with some of my thoughts, and they would rip apart what I was saying because they found it illogical. This would in turn make me feel really stupid, and then I would just go on for a long time really feeling bad.

So I think for a long time I've learned to kind control my feelings and try to stay calm. There are still times when I respond emotionally on PerC. I also often feel very defensive about things. However, especially now that I better understand my ISFJ tendencies, I"ve been able to back up, kind of think things through, and think more carefully about what's being said before I just let out my first emotional response.


I've also learned that NTs rarely mean harm in what they say, even if my first impression of it is one where I feel hurt. I've learned that a lot of times this is a response that is more about me and what I feel rather than what they're saying.


All in all, I think it's been a journey of personal happiness...it's not fun to feel hurt all of the time, so I think I've tried to find ways to get a better understanding of reality so that I can avoid feeling hurt. It still happens sometimes, but I think I've gained control a lot more than I used to, and that's helped me become a happier person.



But yeah, I've been able to get along quite well with a number of NTs on PerC, but not all of them. I still feel some natural barriers with NTs sometimes. But some have also told me that I'm not "the average ISFJ" and that I've been able to give them some good insights into ISFJs in a way they can understand, at least to a degree.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm trying to gain understanding of other types as well. However, no matter how well I understand a feeler thinks, they sometimes still feel attacked by me when I disagree with them. Or I perceive them as defensive, because their idea of controlled defensive anger is my idea of freaking out.

And thank you for spending so much time explaining things to me and helping me. I'm glad I've been able to have positive interactions here with non-thinkers such as yourself.
 

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I'm trying to gain understanding of other types as well. However, no matter how well I understand a feeler thinks, they sometimes still feel attacked by me when I disagree with them. Or I perceive them as defensive, because their idea of controlled defensive anger is my idea of freaking out.
Yeah, so much of it depends on the individual person, the details of the situation, and exactly what the issues are. Some people are just more emotional than others, and some people are irrational no matter what anyone else does (and this extends to thinkers, as well). If someone is hurt just because of disagreement and nothing else, then there's not a whole lot you can do until they can work through their sensitivity.


However, I think often these types of discussions are very based upon how things are worded as well. I think what has always helped me is when I feel like I can trust someone, and that trust is gained by me knowing that they respect and value me as a person, even if they don't agree with me. I think when I personally get most defensive is when I feel like the person is making me feel stupid for having a particular belief.

I also think that at least for ISFJs (and maybe other feelers) we create a bond with our opinions and beliefs. So sometimes I think when a thinker (particularly an NT) attacks a position or a belief with malice or disdain, then that is perceived as an attack on the person, because of that attachment.


So I think it helps a lot if the thinker clearly points out that just because they disagree with a belief and doesn't have respect for it, that doesn't mean that they don't respect or value a person that holds it. I think sometimes NTs feel like this may be obvious because that's usually the way it is for them...they view the two as separate. But since this is very often not true for feelers, I think it's a big point of miscommunication (and false assumptions on both sides) unless it is clearly pointed out early on.



Poetic_Anarchy said:
And thank you for spending so much time explaining things to me and helping me. I'm glad I've been able to have positive interactions here with non-thinkers such as yourself.
I always enjoy it when people of some types work to understand people of other types. I think that kind of understanding helps people to get along better and also learn from each other, since we all have different strengths.
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
However, I think often these types of discussions are very based upon how things are worded as well. I think what has always helped me is when I feel like I can trust someone, and that trust is gained by me knowing that they respect and value me as a person, even if they don't agree with me. I think when I personally get most defensive is when I feel like the person is making me feel stupid for having a particular belief.

I also think that at least for ISFJs (and maybe other feelers) we create a bond with our opinions and beliefs. So sometimes I think when a thinker (particularly an NT) attacks a position or a belief with malice or disdain, then that is perceived as an attack on the person, because of that attachment
I'll be sure to remember this. I often have people react like I said I wanted to kill their family, when all I did was disagree with them on some issue I barely care about.
 
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