[fecaleagle]

I was just wondering if any of you INTJs out there frequently run into the problem of not being appreciated for trying to help others by giving advice? As someone with a lot of knowledge on a wide variety of subjects, I find myself holding back sometimes in fear of not being appreciated.

When I give advice, it's because I want to help the other person and see them better off. However, many times people do not see this intent. They make weird judgments like I have some ulterior motive, or that I am trying to be critical of others..or that I'm trying to act superior in someway because of my intellect. I don't get it. A lot of times they say it has to do with my tone. My passion is misconstrued as anger somehow lol. Is it because it's a weird thing to see an INTJ trying to be altruistic because people assume we are cold and distant? Maybe other "warmer" types have it easier because it is expected of them.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to convey knowledge appropriately. Sometimes I am afraid to speak up on issues not because I don't know enough but because I actually know a ton, but don't want to come across as a "know it all". Which is unfair because I live life to accumulate knowledge and wisdom, and I think I am entitled to show a small aspect of the fruits of my labor to society. Do any of you guys often keep quiet despite knowing a lot more than others about a topic? I mean I try to be as humble as possible but I must be doing something wrong. Any advice or shared sentiments?

 

[calliope]

Yes. This is a problem for me. Perhaps it has to do with people not wanting to admit that you have put in more hours on a subject than them or they do not want to admit that they would use their knowledge with an ulterior motive. Also many non-INTJs do not agree that knowledge should be free. Often they attach their identity to their knowledge about something and don't understand the concept of giving it away as they feel it is part of their identity.

As far as tone of voice, some theories are that we give them neutrality, and they can't help but read into it, and people tend to imagine the worst. Other theories are that if we empathized properly with the person that needs the information, we wouldn't want to make them feel bad by in a roundabout way pointing out that they don't know something that we know. We should protect their self esteem by pretending that we don't know anything else about their problem area either.

Most of the time I feel like someone who studied for the math test when everyone else went skiing for the weekend and then am told that I should feel bad for having passed when they failed. I try to tell myself that they spent all those hours socializing and relaxing their minds when I was exercising mine. So my results are going to be a whole lot better.
I have noticed that I never had these problems when I was a teacher and I don't have them now with people that work for me. People tend to respect the position of power for some reason.

I have a commitment to share knowledge anyway, even if it's not wanted. I believe knowledge is free. Also I have this problem when I try to get knowledge from others. It's like pulling teeth. They act like information is theirs, that facts are personal, and that it's scary to share. I generally harass them until they give it to me. This doesn't win me a lot of friends.

 

[DarklyValentine]

i talk in fragments, analogy, giggles, questioning, plantation etc.../look it makes perfect sense to me


Unfortunately people take what they will* from what you say no matter how you say it....even with humours stamping slippers...this means being brutally honest from a detached point of view.

* Think a vulture pecking for what they wantthey want wtf damn you gremlins..let it me cos os speil policia hehe


actually I forgeted what you said OP and dont care because I have a static bubble that surrounds me and my ego and only the splattering diarrhoea can penetrate it....seee thats a good strong visual analogy

not enough brain eating sausages init though

Bewaaahhhhh the brain eatins sausages from outeree spacy!

again it all works on many level

failing that purchase a knobkerrie or stout stick and reprogram them:crazy:

 

[dalsgaard]

A lot of people out there talk because they like talking, not because they necessarily know a lot about the subject at hand. I've noticed these folks keep a monologue going way past their comfort level: they don't necessarily want to appear smart, but they want to keep the ball rolling with no awkward moments.

It can really piss me off sometimes. I don't open my mouth unless I have something important to say. If I make a case and argue for it I not only have good reasons, I also have a lot of knowledge on the subject. I know more about global warming than the vast majority, and it's a subject everyone has an oppinion on even though they haven't read the tiniest fragment of the studies I've had my hands on.

I still keep my mouth shut when they say something wrong though. I try to encourage them to read up on it some more rather than correct them. It's still really damn hard sometimes.

 

[dalsgaard]

Most of the time I feel like someone who studied for the math test when everyone else went skiing for the weekend and then am told that I should feel bad for having passed when they failed.

This is a great point. I do too. That's why I hate it when people say they can't do something because they are not as smart as me. The reason my performance seem effortless is because a lot of hours went into making it look effortless. I'm not a genius... The only reason I get top grades is because I do the work. I've suffered for what I've accomplished, and when people brush it off as some God-given talent they're only excusing their own lack of discipline.

 

[talemin]

mmm...advice...I had a not so funny experience here.
Can't say if it was a true blindness or stupidity or cowardice, but a fine share of the people I knew years ago run blindly, and merrily, towards wide, openly visible chasms. They ignored all the well-laid signals that screamed 'this road bides you no good!' and when I dared to say 'look, there is a chasm there, stop act as you are acting or you _obviously_ will find yourself into [insert description for a very bad situation here]' they:
1) scolded me because I was 'too pessimistic, cheer up'
2) ignored me because 'this path is not so obvious' (it WAS!!)
3) (when the very bad situation had of course ensnared them) blamed on me that I jinxed them - because it seemed all so fine until I spoked. Yes, it seemed!
WTF oO???
So, 1 time...2 times...10...more...then, given that living as a future teller famed black witch was a bit difficult ^^', I quitted giving advice for free, and now require a lot of praying even if asked.

But it's still hard to just sit and watch people who can't pick up the most obvious of clues to their doom

 

[Goodewitch]

You're not alone in this OP,.. i have oft felt like cassandra, and people have reacted like i was foretelling their doom, and have taken no notice, or rather, have taken notice, but seem loathe to thank or credit me when the doom came to pass, which they had still chosen to go ahead and do.
I've come to the conclusion that no one likes you to know more than them, and even when they ask for your help or advice, they secretly resent it, especially when the advice is correct.
its some strange kind of human quirk, that people will sometimes bite the hand that feeds them.
I try not to ever give unsolicited advice, but being a know it all, and an Ni Dom, its hard to stop from screaming out the bloody obvious to oblivious fools at times.
They dont thank ye for it, they certainly do not :sad:
G. x

 

[cosmos]

"When you counsel someone, you should appear to be reminding him of something he had forgotten, not of the light he was unable to see."

Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658)

 

[emw1981]

"When you counsel someone, you should appear to be reminding him of something he had forgotten, not of the light he was unable to see."

Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658)

OP, i get what youre saying and struggle with it constantly. i live for knowledge, and then live to give it. perhaps we should all take this quote and tatoo it to the insides of our eyelids when we want to share

 

[Archangel]

I get that a lot too. A kind of psychological defense, since humans in general do no like having the overwhelmed / helpless feeling.

 

[talemin]

OP, i get what youre saying and struggle with it constantly. i live for knowledge, and then live to give it. perhaps we should all take this quote and tatoo it to the insides of our eyelids when we want to share

What, as to make up a fake previous discussion when they said me they didn't like where they were going? :S
I am a very bad liar (and I don't like it too), it's difficult enough explain something without messing with non-facts ...

Plus: do you think it's really a Ni-dom thing, that people _really_ doesn't see what's ahead, and not deliberately ignores it? I never thought this possible until I lurked this forum (and this topic)...but if it's so it will be much harder to stay quiet.
I must come up with something :dry:

 

[TurquoiseSunset]

I was just wondering if any of you INTJs out there frequently run into the problem of not being appreciated for trying to help others by giving advice? As someone with a lot of knowledge on a wide variety of subjects, I find myself holding back sometimes in fear of not being appreciated.

When I give advice, it's because I want to help the other person and see them better off. However, many times people do not see this intent. They make weird judgments like I have some ulterior motive, or that I am trying to be critical of others..or that I'm trying to act superior in someway because of my intellect. I don't get it. A lot of times they say it has to do with my tone. My passion is misconstrued as anger somehow lol. Is it because it's a weird thing to see an INTJ trying to be altruistic because people assume we are cold and distant? Maybe other "warmer" types have it easier because it is expected of them.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to convey knowledge appropriately. Sometimes I am afraid to speak up on issues not because I don't know enough but because I actually know a ton, but don't want to come across as a "know it all". Which is unfair because I live life to accumulate knowledge and wisdom, and I think I am entitled to show a small aspect of the fruits of my labor to society. Do any of you guys often keep quiet despite knowing a lot more than others about a topic? I mean I try to be as humble as possible but I must be doing something wrong. Any advice or shared sentiments?

A lot of times they say it has to do with my tone.

Yeah, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. It's also sometimes better to sit back and really think about it before saying anything, especially if it's a sensitive subject. Otherwise, I completely identify with your post.

 

[Paradox of Vigor]

"When you counsel someone, you should appear to be reminding him of something he had forgotten, not of the light he was unable to see."

Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658)

I disagree. People will only listen to me when I force my advice down their throat. By the way, i've never failed in attempting to give someone advice. Do not hold back that intelligence, as this is what other see in you. They will eventually think you know what you're talking about if you display that hidden confidence.

 

[cosmos]

I disagree. People will only listen to me when I force my advice down their throat. By the way, i've never failed in attempting to give someone advice. Do not hold back that intelligence, as this is what other see in you. They will eventually think you know what you're talking about if you display that hidden confidence.

And do you receive advice the same way you dispense it?