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Gohan's type?

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Son Gohan? I'd bet on ISFP, 9w1-4w5-6w5, SP/SOC.

I think his basic virtues are social harmony and independence for himself and for others. I think the Introverted Perception functions Ni and Si are too narrow for his self-assured, flowing approach. I say 9 core because he seems concerned with keeping himself managed more than preparing himself to overcome some impending threat, like Head triad peeps do. As well, he has moderate self-control, holding himself back from being too assertive (8) or too demanding (1). I think that typifies a 9.

I'd look no further than Videl for ISFJ. I think she would be a dead ringer.

For Videl: ISFJ, 7w8-8w7-2w3, SX/SP.
 

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Son Gohan? I'd bet on ISFP, 9w1-4w5-6w5, SP/SOC.

I think his basic virtues are social harmony and independence for himself and for others. I think the Introverted Perception functions Ni and Si are too narrow for his self-assured, flowing approach. I say 9 core because he seems concerned with keeping himself managed more than preparing himself to overcome some impending threat, like Head triad peeps do. As well, he has moderate self-control, holding himself back from being too assertive (8) or too demanding (1). I think that typifies a 9.

I'd look no further than Videl for ISFJ. I think she would be a dead ringer.

For Videl: ISFJ, 7w8-8w7-2w3, SX/SP.
???? Gohan Self assured? And how the hell does he have a 4 fix?
 

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When he got mad at Cell, choosing to make him suffer and screwing things up in the process, was that Fe or Fi (inferior Te)?
 

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I always wanted Gohan to be intuitive for whatever reason, but I think he's ISFP with well developed Ni.

The fact that he ever became the Great Saiyaman proves both his Fi and Se.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I always wanted Gohan to be intuitive for whatever reason, but I think he's ISFP with well developed Ni.

The fact that he ever became the Great Saiyaman proves both his Fi and Se.
Very true. I had gotten an intuitive vibe from Gohan too. & the Fi + Se from being Great Saiyaman is a good point.
 

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Very true. I had gotten an intuitive vibe from Gohan too. & the Fi + Se from being Great Saiyaman is a good point.
Let's look at more scenarios...

When Videl was getting creamed by Spopovich, his internal values were immediately crossed and his first reaction was to act. Goku stopped him because it wasn't appropriate for the situation (Goku with Fe? Probably.) and so Gohan waited but immediately wanted vengeance. Now, this could also easily just be a man getting pissed about his woman getting hurt. But the way I see it, Gohan usually leads with his value system and when it's crossed, he springs into action.

Look at the incident with Lime's village. He saw something he perceived as immoral and he stepped in to stop/fix it.

He also doesn't really wait around to contemplate options. He sees flaw. He fixes flaw. He sees problem. He fixes problem.

His low Te could possibly explain why he's slow to lead things.

His Ni came out when he came to the realization of why his father chose him to fight Cell (when he goes through that mantra to warn Cell of just how awesome he is for an 11 year old).

He stuck with his studies for so long because his mother made that important to him, just as defending the weak and innocent was a value passed on from his dad. He's always very in the moment and not really big on traditions or anything. He's definitely weak with Ne... He's not very scattered (that's Goten).

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. And now I'm going to think about ALL the characters types.
 

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???? Gohan Self assured? And how the hell does he have a 4 fix?
I didn't even know anyone had approached me.

Self-assured cognitively. Far as I see, Introverted Judging, and Extraverted Perceiving types (XXXP) are self-assured. They're neither compelled to order their surroundings to an internal model of judgment (EXXJ types), nor compelled to eliminate certain ideas to narrow down to an absolute idea (IXXJ types). I'd change my estimate to INFP from my earlier of ISFP.

What's wrong with a 4 fix for him? I've problems seeing him with a 2 fix, belonging to people desiring to be received as valuable by how principled and upright they are. They'll automatically come off more strict, or fussy than Gohan. See Videl for that.

I picked a 4 fix due to his demeanor. It seemed to retreat (withdraw) from abiding by rules other than those mattering to him, as opposed to those of the common public. The 4 egotistically consults itself for guidance more than it commonly accepts guidance from the outside. Those with this fix will come off more reclusive and self-centered than those with a 3 or 2 fix. Gohan's mindfulness stems from care of how he emits himself to others.
 

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Sigh... I just cant.
I didn't even know anyone had approached me.
Yeah...it was a while ago.

Self-assured cognitively. Far as I see, Introverted Judging, and Extraverted Perceiving types (XXXP) are self-assured. They're neither compelled to order their surroundings to an external model of judgment (EXXJ types), nor compelled to eliminate certain ideas to narrow down to an absolute idea (IXXJ types). I'd change my estimate to INFP from my earlier of ISFP.
I changed from internal to external because it didn't make sense.

What's wrong with a 4 fix for him? I've problems seeing him with a 2 fix, belonging to people desiring to be received as valuable by how principled and upright they are. They'll automatically come off more strict, or fussy than Gohan. See Videl for that.
Uh.... No. 2s as a core type are not strict at all. 2w1s maybe but 2w3s are almost never strict.

I picked a 4 fix due to his demeanor. It seemed to retreat (withdraw) from abiding by rules other than those mattering to him, as opposed to those of the common public.
That could be introverted feeling , but I've never seen Gohan headstrong about following his own rules or values as opposed those of the common public. When Gohan was a child all he ever did was what everyone around him told him to do. His mother told him to do his homework and go to college and study to be an orthopaedist and he did. When Gohan met Piccolo and Piccolo taught him how to fight he never really changed and started living his own life. Gohan has always lived his life for the sake of others. When he went to High school he became the Great Saiyaman to satisfy his desire for making sure that justice was being followed through because his father and his friends had taught him to value doing good. Gohan doesn't have the depth of feeling that an introverted feeler has. His values are created by those he looks up to namely his mother, father, and Piccolo.

The 4 egotistically consults itself for guidance more than it commonly accepts guidance from the outside. Those with this fix will come off more reclusive and self-centered than those with a 3 or 2 fix. Gohan's mindfulness stems from care of how he emits himself to others.
Uh...again.. NO! At what point of any episode of DBZ have you seen Gohan brood on anything other than how he is going to save/support/rescue [insert external factor here]. Gohan just isn't that deep of a person. The only times you see him do any kind of brooding is during the Cell Saga when he decides he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't like fighting. Now that example could be demonstrating an attribute of introverted feeling, but considering that was just one time and pacifism isn't exactly an introverted feeling trait I wouldn't start pegging things just yet.

As far Gohan being a 4 fix goes however, it just isn't possible. He never broods on his identity or a damaged relation between himself and those around him. Even when he goes to high school which is tough time for most people, Gohan still never feels different than his peers. NOW obviously he knows he is different than his peers because he is half-saiyian, but as far as identity goes, Nope. He doesn't care. Gohan just wants to be a good person who can make everyone around him happy. If you're telling me that isn't 2-fix than you might want to re-do your research because self-sacrifice for the sake of being seen as good and being loved by others is a 2 in a nutshell.
 

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Sigh... I just cant.
Lovely. Please, don't pull a muscle on my account.

I changed from internal to external because it didn't make sense.
You thought he was ISFJ at first. Now, ESFJ?

Uh.... No. 2s as a core type are not strict at all. 2w1s maybe but 2w3s are almost never strict.
Give me an example of any characters or celebs with a 2 fix or core that you do not find strict or fussy. They are next to the 1s. That's going to make any 2 critical, with at least undertones of strictness. They desire to be scrupulous, man.

That could be introverted feeling , but I've never seen Gohan headstrong about following his own rules or values as opposed those of the common public. When Gohan was a child all he ever did was what everyone around him told him to do. His mother told him to do his homework and go to college and study to be an orthopaedist and he did. When Gohan met Piccolo and Piccolo taught him how to fight he never really changed and started living his own life. Gohan has always lived his life for the sake of others. When he went to High school he became the Great Saiyaman to satisfy his desire for making sure that justice was being followed through because his father and his friends had taught him to value doing good. Gohan doesn't have the depth of feeling that an introverted feeler has. His values are created by those he looks up to namely his mother, father, and Piccolo.
Firstly, Fi isn't about following your own rules opposed to the general. Introversion merely makes Feeling, like any other preference, concerned about actualizing its own improvised views of said preference. Feeling itself is concerned with the order of the social sphere. Thus it won't rely on what has externally worked to shepherd a group (compromise, engagement, sacrifice for unity's sake). It will improvise its own methods (liberation from a narrow trend, idealism in a sense). Fi is just psyche-driven Feeling.

Secondly, having a 4 fix, or core, won't mean one will act against orders. I'm a 4 with a 6 fix, and have Social variant dominance, and it's been true to me. As a 4, you'll have egotistical means to obtain value. You'll be disinterested in taking 'common' orders as seriously as others may, making you come off as withdrawn into yourself, in order to precisely, individually morph yourself. To a 4, common-public principles are inhibitions to the level they aspire to reach. They can go above and beyond expectations, besides just rebelling against what they find unimaginative.

Thirdly, having a 2 fix or core is a far cry from simply reflecting the values of others important to you. Motivations don't determine one's values. 2s abide strongly to a discipline of principles. Part of their being so helpful is being critical of wrongness. Like 1s, 2s can do this to help them feel more comfortable, but mostly to be viewed as upstanding and moral.

Lastly, an important note: one's motivation doesn't spell out how one will react to everything on a nature/nurture basis. I've been instilled with values that I uphold which aren't predetermined by my being a 4. For instance, some 4s have something against organized religion and some don't. Many times it's what you accept that makes the difference, not your motivation. Or else Enneatypes would be like pedigrees, and people would easily be put in cut-and-dry groups.

Uh...again.. NO! At what point of any episode of DBZ have you seen Gohan brood on anything other than how he is going to save/support/rescue [insert external factor here]. Gohan just isn't that deep of a person. The only times you see him do any kind of brooding is during the Cell Saga when he decides he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't like fighting. Now that example could be demonstrating an attribute of introverted feeling, but considering that was just one time and pacifism isn't exactly an introverted feeling trait I wouldn't start pegging things just yet.
Attempting, once more, to dispell this myth. 4s are not deep. Let us get that straight right now... They're egotistical, and it can come off like "depth." People do not act like Gohan and have a 2 fix, much less a core. I've met no-one like that.

You may see multitudes of brooding on the 4 subforum threads, but 4s basically imagine themselves fulfilling elements of interpersonal valuableness and self-importance. It can make them brooding, doubtful, pretentious and/or cocky. Like I often say, it's an Ego thing. It all comes off as more withdrawn (again, ego) than a 2 fix would cause one to be. To me 2 doesn't match Gohan's personality. I mean, sure, he has principles. Who doesn't? Valuing structure a 2 does not make.

As far Gohan being a 4 fix goes however, it just isn't possible.
So, he's a 6, visibly wary, and relying on other people for consistency in order to ward off threats to his security? I'm not saying it's not in his tri-type, but his core, dude? I'd say 9w1, and even 9s have that fragmented relation between themselves and others, but deals with any problems it causes by thinking of things that placate their anger. Does it necessarily show in the anime? Nah. That's why we estimate. Fiction obviously isn't precise.

He never broods on his identity or a damaged relation between himself and those around him. Even when he goes to high school which is tough time for most people, Gohan still never feels different than his peers. NOW obviously he knows he is different than his peers because he is half-saiyian, but as far as identity goes, Nope. He doesn't care.
The show doesn't have to go in depth into Gohan's mental hangups for him to have any one Enneatype over another. He can exude the impression of an enneatype.

He has to brood over identity to be a 4? Is that all 4s do to be 4s these days? Feeling faceless is just what it feels like. Considering the root of the feelings, it's a simplistic description of what is really a rift between the 4's confidence and its exposure to others. What it does is cause self-centeredness, not simply brooding.

Gohan just wants to be a good person who can make everyone around him happy. If you're telling me that isn't 2-fix than you might want to re-do your research because self-sacrifice for the sake of being seen as good and being loved by others is a 2 in a nutshell.
I'll recapitulate: 2s are fussy and strict, abiding by principles similarly to 1s. Lazarus knows I've met enough of them to know this, my mom even being among them. Even 9s are fussy and strict. Their fear of instigating conflict, making them hold back, betrays their underlying motivation. Being next to the 1 will do that to you.

The mental/concrete notes I take on people suffice more than relying solely on online descriptions, which are less authentic than upfront observation. I get my data from research, experience and cross-analysis.

2s will only self-sacrifice when it's according to what they feel is principled and generally moralistic. They won't do it for the same reasons that just anyone would do it, which seems to be what you're describing; self-sacrifice that anyone giving a damn about loyalty and acceptance would make. I make those sacrifices. I'm not a 2, bro. I can be accommodating without breaking my back over the rights and wrongs of social graces and punctilio. You know how many 2s have told me how inappropriate I am just for not observing things I find trivial? Whether it truly is trivial or not, they're observant of general morals to the point of strictness about them, even if it is to be loved.
 

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You thought he was ISFJ at first. Now, ESFJ?
No. Here is what you said

Far as I see, Introverted Judging, and Extraverted Perceiving types (XXXP) are self-assured. They're neither compelled to order their surroundings to an internal model of judgment (EXXJ types), nor compelled to eliminate certain ideas to narrow down to an absolute idea (IXXJ types).
I changed the bold to external because ExxJs use external models of judgement not internal.

Give me an example of any characters or celebs with a 2 fix or core that you do not find strict or fussy. They are next to the 1s. That's going to make any 2 critical, with at least undertones of strictness. They desire to be scrupulous, man.
Hmm lets see. From anime we get Naruto, and Yuuno Gassai. And also pick and choose any woman you know in real life. 9 times out of 10 she is 2. Why? Because 2 is the stereotypical female enneatype.


Thirdly, having a 2 fix or core is a far cry from simply reflecting the values of others important to you. Motivations don't determine one's values. 2s abide strongly to a discipline of principles. Part of their being so helpful is being critical of wrongness. Like 1s, 2s can do this to help them feel more comfortable, but mostly to be viewed as upstanding and moral.
NO! All of that stuff you said only applies to 1s. 2 is an image type and they don't want to be seen as good for good's sake (like a 1) they want to be seen as good by the people they associate themselves with so they can feel loved.

Lastly, an important note: one's motivation doesn't spell out how one will react to everything on a nature/nurture basis. I've been instilled with values that I uphold which aren't predetermined by my being a 4. For instance, some 4s have something against organized religion and some don't. Many times it's what you accept that makes the difference, not your motivation. Or else Enneatypes would be like pedigrees, and people would easily be put in cut-and-dry groups.
I get what you're saying, but the way you are saying it is weird. Yes motivation doesn't determine values. A enneagram 4 may not like the church because they fear the church might take away their identity another one may not feel this way.

Attempting, once more, to dispell this myth. 4s are not deep. Let us get that straight right now... They're egotistical, and it can come off like "depth." People do not act like Gohan and have a 2 fix, much less a core. I've met no-one like that.
So what you're saying is you've never met anyone with a strong desire to help humanity, an inability not to follow the values bestowed upon them by their role models, and a desire to do good and be seen as good have a 2 fix??? You should definitely meet some more people then.

So, he's a 6, visibly wary, and relying on other people for consistency in order to ward off threats to his security? I'm not saying it's not in his tri-type, but his core, dude? I'd say 9w1, and even 9s have that fragmented relation between themselves and others, but deals with any problems it causes by thinking of things that placate their anger. Does it necessarily show in the anime? Nah. That's why we estimate. Fiction obviously isn't precise.
But he doesn't have any kind of fragmented relation between himself and others.


The mental/concrete notes I take on people suffice more than relying solely on online descriptions, which are less authentic than upfront observation. I get my data from research, experience and cross-analysis.
Yeah.. you might want to do your research again because a lot of the stuff you said doesn't make any sense at all. Long drawn explanations does not make you sound smart when someone can analyze piece by piece what it is you're saying.

2s will only self-sacrifice when it's according to what they feel is principled and generally moralistic. They won't do it for the same reasons that just anyone would do it, which seems to be what you're describing; self-sacrifice that anyone giving a damn about loyalty and acceptance would make. I make those sacrifices. I'm not a 2, bro. I can be accommodating without breaking my back over the rights and wrongs of social graces and punctilio. You know how many 2s have told me how inappropriate I am just for not observing things I find trivial? Whether it truly is trivial or not, they're observant of general morals to the point of strictness about them, even if it is to be loved.
No NO NO! Again those are 1s. All you've been talking about is 1s.
 

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@Le9acyMuse

I want to apologize because I felt like I was being rude in my assertions. Lets get some things straight I don't think you're stupid, I think you have very well thought out ideas and you clearly have done your research into the subject. However I just can't agree with your assertions on what a 2 is like. It just doesn't make sense to my own personal logical consistent framework of what a 2 is and yes I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am. Everything you say about enneagram 2 sounds like enneagram 1 to me. I really think you should re-do your research on the clear definition of what makes a 1 a 1, and what makes a 2 a 2. Other than that is pretty clear to me that you are intelligent and you do take the time to think about the subject matter beyond whats on the surface and for that you are appreciated.
 

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http://personalitycafe.com/members/le9acymuse.html

I want to apologize because I felt like I was being rude in my assertions. Lets get some things straight I don't think you're stupid, I think you have very well thought out ideas and you clearly have done your research into the subject. However I just can't agree with your assertions on what a 2 is like. It just doesn't make sense to my own personal logical consistent framework of what a 2 is and yes I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am. Everything you say about enneagram 2 sounds like enneagram 1 to me. I really think you should re-do your research on the clear definition of what makes a 1 a 1, and what makes a 2 a 2. Other than that is pretty clear to me that you are intelligent and you do take the time to think about the subject matter beyond whats on the surface and for that you are appreciated.
I think that types like 1w2 and 2w1 could cause some confusions, even if 1w2 have anger issues and 2w1 shame issues that should be rather easy to discern. Maybe those descriptions that I took from timeless's posts can clear if Gohan is really 2 fixed or not, as well to shed some basic differences between type 1 and type 2 :

Type 2 with a 1 Wing (Superego-Superego): This wing doubles-up on superego elements, making the 2w1 very moralistic. A 2w1 can appear more "uptight" than a 2w3 in many ways, since the id seems like a foreign force to them. They are more likely to be blindsided by their id desires because of that.

Type 1 with a 2 Wing (Superego-Superego): This wing doubles-up on superego aspects, making the 1w2 more incorruptible and aggressive than the 1w9. 1w2 is often more confident in their superego ideals and are more likely to be confrontational about them. However, this type is more likely to suffer stress because the superego is not rational and will likely generate unrealistically perfectionist standards.

Type One - “I will be secure if I'm perfect.”
Type Two - “I will be secure if I'm loved, appreciated or respected.”

Type One – Complies with the superego because they will feel corrupt if they don't.
Type Two – Complies with the superego because they will feel useless if they don't

Type Two – Twos focus on their own goodness and virtue.
Type One – Ones must be competent to maintain their set of ethics.

(Compared to Two) Ones have a stricter moral code than a Two. Twos are also more in touch with their emotional side than a One is.

Facts about type one:

Holy Idea: Perfection
Vice: Resentment
Virtue: Right Action
Enneagram Triad: Body (Associated Emotion: Anger)
Hornevian Triad:Compliant
Harmonic Triad: Competency
Basic Drive: To be incorruptible
Basic Fear: Corruption
Basic Desire: Integrity
Freudian Association: Superego

Facts about type two:

Holy Idea: Freedom
Vice: Vainglory
Virtue: Altruism
Enneagram Triad: Image (Associated Emotion: Shame)
Hornevian Triad: Compliant
Harmonic Triad: Positive Outlook
Basic Drive: To make their ideal image into a reality
Basic Fear: Unworthiness of Love
Basic Desire: Unconditional Love
Freudian Association: Superego
 
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