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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
When your second function works well with your first, brilliant things can happen!

Shakespeare---- concepts driven, extremely varied interests (law, archery, exploration, history, lots of different love affairs with all sorts (bi-sexual-- not that introverts can't be bi), etc.). Inferior Si. Enterprising. Collaborating. Sorry, INFPs, his Fi is very good, but doesn't dominate his Ne in my opinion. Look at his concept driven poems, compare Fi dom Pablo Neruda. Shakespeare is interested in the very varied human experience, in all the different ways it can be looked at. Compare INFP Anton Chekhov who is also interested in exploring, but exploring plays 2nd fiddle to expressing feeling. It might be easier for some people to compare INFP Tim Burton who keeps exploring his own imagination and feelings? (Although Burton is for sure not Chekhov.) INFPs have J.K. Rowlings too... fantastic imagination... that's a very good comparison because in my opinion with Si tert you see more imaginative "things" and less discussion of airy questions and concepts like Ne dom Shakespeare discusses. Shakespeare is most interested in seeing the world and it's concepts out of lots of very different eyes-- Ne dom.

Jordan Peterson (whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant to his type)-- ENTP seems obvious and I don't know how his extroversion is getting missed by so many people.. A very extroverted person who thinks on their feet given whatever is thrown at him and expresses concepts. He even talks about how his brain works because people ask him. He describes how information is processed and remembered and recalled by his Ne dom brain.

John Stewart-- Ne dom is so strong and both his moral values and logic is so developed to drive and support the Ne concepts coming through--- I THINK ENFP, but Ne dom for sure.

Einstein-- ENTP. Extremely varied interests (fairy tales, music, politics, traveling, etc) and very collaborative. If he wanted to explore something, he explored it. Of course his second function is great, but it does not overshadow his Ne. He is extremely engaged in the ideas of the outside world.

John Lennon-- I don't know why people think he's an introvert. He's an extroverted person. We have good footage of him where you can watch how he interacts with people. He collaborates. His lyrics are concept dominated, feeling second and sometimes even just goofy Ne putting all sorts of things together that don't fit without much feeling. Compare INFP Kurt Cobain. Lennon has inferior Si. INFPs, sorry, you do have so many good ones already, though.
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It is really annoying me that the above are all men, so I'm going to mention some Ne dom women:

Anne Frank-- ENFP Interested in other's around her on an Ne extroverted level although her Fi is strong and she is interested in her own ideas, but she is concepts driven about what she sees in the world.

Mary Shelley -- ENFP her goal is to show concepts that influence feelings and morals.
Charlotte Bronte, imo, although her Fi is almost equal, but she seems most interested in describing concepts and I see inferior Si.

Addendum 06/05 afternoon: I am now leaning towards INTP for Einstein. I always saw his more humanistic quotes and figured these in a bit too much in my perception of him. I watched multiple videos of him and read more and although he is more on the line of extroversion and introversion, I’m now leaning INTP.
 

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When your second function works well with your first, brilliant things can happen!

Shakespeare---- concepts driven, extremely varied interests (law, archery, exploration, lots of different love affairs with all sorts (bi-sexual), etc.) Sorry, INFPs, his Fi is good, but doesn't dominate his Ne in my opinion.

Jordan Peterson (whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant)-- ENTP obviously. A very extroverted person who thinks on their feet given whatever is thrown at him.

John Stewart-- Ne dom is so strong and his moral values and logic is so developed--- I THINK ENFP, but Ne dom for sure.

Einstein-- ENTP. Extremely varied interests and very collaborative. If he wants to explore something he explores it.

John Lennon-- I don't know why people think he's an introvert. He's an extroverted person. We have good footage of him being very collaborative. His lyrics are concept dominated and he has inferior Si.

Anne Frank-- ENFP Interested in other's around her on an Ne extroverted level.
ENFPs and ENTPs are considered the most "...Introverted of the extroverts." Does that make more sense?

https://metamemory.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F158638822097
https://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F650706361060098048
 

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Einstein -- ENTP. Extremely varied interests and very collaborative. If he wants to explore something he explores it.
I'm not so sure about Einstein.
Probably more Ti or Ni dom?
So either INTP or INTJ.
Moreso INTP due to the Ti-Ne loop = 'understanding the big picture'.

ENFPs and ENTPs are considered the most "...Introverted of the extroverts." Does that make more sense?
I'd go with the concept that the ENTP is actually more introverted than their ENFP cousin.
I lived (platonically) with an ENFP female and we'd both get highly excitable when Ne was 'active'.
But in our quiet time, she would continue to exhibit interaction with people/interests albeit at a lower level of 'energy'.
Whereas i'd just disappear for alone time, mainly to settle my hyper mind ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Peterson's an ENFJ. Not only has he announced his Big Five results which correlate with ENFJ, but by how he thinks in terms of single point of entry.
Big 5 doesn't correlate with MBTI well at all, so I don't know who thinks they've got that right. ENFJs recall information in a different way than Ne and he is a thought-explorer. We agree he is an extrovert. =)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ENFPs and ENTPs are considered the most "...Introverted of the extroverts." Does that make more sense?

https://metamemory.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F158638822097
https://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F650706361060098048
I've always found that idea or label too simplistic, personally. I don't think it helps anyone to understand or type anyone. I think every type has a range. For instance, I have met very very introverted INTJs and closer to extroverted INTJs.... we are all on a pendulum on how extroverted or introverted we are, so I have never agreed to applying that idea/label to a whole type.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not so sure about Einstein.
Probably more Ti or Ni dom?
So either INTP or INTJ.
Moreso INTP due to the Ti-Ne loop = 'understanding the big picture'.
Show your reasoning on why INTP. He seems very interested in everything possible and engaged extrovertedly. Ne itself is "understanding the big picture" and that doesn't take Ti. He's way too P to be any kind of Ni, though. We are looking at really radical Ne.
I'd say Tesla is INTP if we want a good comparison. Jung is also INTP.
 
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Big 5 doesn't correlate with MBTI well at all, so I don't know who thinks they've got that right. ENFJs recall information in a different way than Ne and he is a thought-explorer. We agree he is an extrovert. =)
It does, relative to E/I and S/N and Fe to Accommodation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Look at how wild that Ne is...ExxP he really just wants to learn everything he wants to learn.

 

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I'm not so sure about Einstein.
Probably more Ti or Ni dom?
So either INTP or INTJ.
Moreso INTP due to the Ti-Ne loop = 'understanding the big picture'.

I'd go with the concept that the ENTP is actually more introverted than their ENFP cousin.
I lived (platonically) with an ENFP female and we'd both get highly excitable when Ne was 'active'.
But in our quiet time, she would continue to exhibit interaction with people/interests albeit at a lower level of 'energy'.
Whereas i'd just disappear for alone time, mainly to settle my hyper mind ...
I think that highly depends on the individual- most of the entp in my life are much more extroverted than I am . My quiet time is crucial . I can go on for hours /day without social interaction/electronic device if I’m deeply invested in writing or creating something .
I think social extroversion is less common in Ne dom due to the fact that we gain energy through connection and exploring new concepts.

Entp or Intp for Einstein make sense


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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
It does, relative to E/I and S/N and Fe to Accommodation.
Not directly, or only according to Joe Shmoe and just because he put up something on the internet doesn't mean his ideas are correct. How would we see Jordan Peterson as an Fe dom? If so, he would be most interested in other people's ideas and he would be vomiting a conglomeration that he put together of the collective likes/dislikes/morals of those around him and he would have a hard time figuring out his own thoughts/logic. This is not what he does. He is coming up with concepts and stories based on the Ne-Si information he has collected and he is making his own judgements independently of other people and he sticks by it. Compare Opera. Peterson is Ne dom. Just because someone thinks they understand some correlation between BIG 5 and MBTI doesn't mean it's a done deal. Big 5 and MBTI are also self-reported, and maybe his Fe is well developed...or maybe he reported it strongly... but does Big 5 show Ne specifically? In openness maybe? Anyway, surely it's not the best correlation. Anyway whoever said Peterson was ENFJ was a person just like me. Anyone should be challenging that person's typing of Jordan Peterson. They could come on here and challenge my thinking and I'd point out what I see and we'd have a persuasive argument and I think I'd win based on observation. If Jordan Peterson decided to discuss MBTI then I'd listen more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I didn't watch the video but he's bipolar so he has severe manic periods.
Look at what Ne is... Einstein embodies it. Trans-contextual thinking, seeing patterns and concepts in the outside world. Getting energy from seeing patterns and concepts in the outside world. Patterns and concepts of all sorts because the more you know about all sorts of different subjects the better your Ne works.
 
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Look at what Ne is... Einstein embodies it. Trans-contextual thinking, seeing patterns and concepts in the outside world. Getting energy from seeing patterns and concepts in the outside world.
I know what Ne is and don't see it in Peterson, although when he's in a manic phase, I can understand why it might be confused for Ne.
 

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When your second function works well with your first, brilliant things can happen!

Shakespeare---- concepts driven, extremely varied interests (law, archery, exploration, history, lots of different love affairs with all sorts (bi-sexual-- not that introverts can't be bi), etc.). Inferior Si. Enterprising. Collaborating. Sorry, INFPs, his Fi is very good, but doesn't dominate his Ne in my opinion. Look at his concept driven poems, compare Fi dom Pablo Neruda. Shakespeare is interested in the very varied human experience, in all the different ways it can be looked at. Compare INFP Anton Chekhov who is also interested in exploring, but exploring plays 2nd fiddle to expressing feeling. It might be easier for some people to compare INFP Tim Burton who keeps exploring his own imagination and feelings? (Although Burton is for sure not Chekhov.) INFPs have J.K. Rowlings too... fantastic imagination... that's a very good comparison because in my opinion with Si tert you see more imaginative "things" and less discussion of airy questions and concepts like Ne dom Shakespeare discusses. Shakespeare is most interested in seeing the world and it's concepts out of lots of very different eyes-- Ne dom.

Jordan Peterson (whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant to his type)-- ENTP seems obvious and I don't know how his extroversion is getting missed by so many people.. A very extroverted person who thinks on their feet given whatever is thrown at him and expresses concepts. He even talks about how his brain works because people ask him. He describes how information is processed and remembered and recalled by his Ne dom brain.

John Stewart-- Ne dom is so strong and both his moral values and logic is so developed to drive and support the Ne concepts coming through--- I THINK ENFP, but Ne dom for sure.

Einstein-- ENTP. Extremely varied interests (fairy tales, music, politics, traveling, etc) and very collaborative. If he wanted to explore something, he explored it. Of course his second function is great, but it does not overshadow his Ne. He is extremely engaged in the ideas of the outside world.

John Lennon-- I don't know why people think he's an introvert. He's an extroverted person. We have good footage of him where you can watch how he interacts with people. He collaborates. His lyrics are concept dominated, feeling second and sometimes even just goofy Ne putting all sorts of things together that don't fit without much feeling. Compare INFP Kurt Cobain. Lennon has inferior Si. INFPs, sorry, you do have so many good ones already, though.
__
It is really annoying me that the above are all men, so I'm going to mention some Ne dom women:

Anne Frank-- ENFP Interested in other's around her on an Ne extroverted level although her Fi is strong and she is interested in her own ideas, but she is concepts driven about what she sees in the world.

Mary Shelley -- ENFP her goal is to show concepts that influence feelings and morals.
Charlotte Bronte, imo, although her Fi is almost equal, but she seems most interested in describing concepts and I see inferior Si.


I’ll reply on the people that I do know -

Shakespeare-seems enfp base on his biography and line of work

Anne Frank is a definite enfp

John Lennon- I agree - massive amount of Ne and fi plays at an auxiliary position.

John Stewart- entp/intp imho , I see a lot of Ti-Fe so I disagree

Einstein- I can see both entp and intp - I can probably provide elaborated arguments for him being either or .




I think people have this misconception that Ne dom are loud , energetic, isn’t socially aware , lack mannerism , can’t be calm/stoic etc etc


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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I know what Ne is and don't see it in Peterson, although when he's in a manic phase, I can understand why it might be confused for Ne.
When I think of mania.. I think of irrational thought. If you think you know what Ne is, then describe what you see that is not Ne... show me the pattern. What about Peterson's very varied interests and ability to discuss almost any topic and how he pulls them together into concepts? That's Ne. If it was the same patterns or even a few patterns then I might look at Ni... but that is not what we see. Or how do you see it? But I guess I'm asking you to see an Ne pattern, which is probably unfair of me to ask.
 
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When I think of mania.. I think of irrational thought. If you think you know what Ne is, then describe what you see that is not Ne... show me the pattern. What about Peterson's very varied interests and ability to discuss almost any topic and how he pulls them together into concepts? That's Ne. If it was the same patterns or even a few patterns then I might look at Ni... but that is not what we see. Or how do you see it? But I guess I'm asking you to see an Ne pattern, which is probably unfair of me to ask.
Peterson evidences scattered thinking patterns, not Ne. In debates, he also uses gish gallop, weak arguments everywhere when parsed but can be overwhelming to respond to because of sheer volume. Volume =/= intelligence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I’ll reply on the people that I do know -

Shakespeare-seems enfp base on his biography and line of work

Anne Frank is a definite enfp

John Lennon- I agree - massive amount of Ne and fi plays at an auxiliary position.

John Stewart- entp/intp imho , I see a lot of Ti-Fe so I disagree

Einstein- I can see both entp and intp - I can probably provide elaborated arguments for him being either or .




I think people have this misconception that Ne dom are loud , energetic, isn’t socially aware , lack mannerism , can’t be calm/stoic etc etc


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I thought John Stewart was ENTP as well and I'm not super strong on ENFP. Could be ENTP pretty easily. He's really well-rounded, but definitely Ne and very strong P.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Peterson evidences scattered thinking patterns, not Ne. In debates, he also uses gish gallop, weak arguments everywhere when parsed but can be overwhelming to respond to because of sheer volume. Volume =/= intelligence.
You're not describing a pattern of any particular cognitive function here. And you're not disproving any particular pattern here. But again, I think I'm asking you to Ne show me a pattern, which isn't really fair to ask, maybe? I'm not sure.
 

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You're not describing a pattern of any particular cognitive function here. And you're not disproving any particular pattern here. But again, I think I'm asking you to Ne show me a pattern, which isn't really fair to ask, maybe? I'm not sure.
That's because I don't want to rewatch any of his videos, to prove to you otherwise, having watched them before and agree with his self-typing of ENFJ. 😄
 
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