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Potential parents: Don't have kids until you are ready in all aspects. That should mean not having kids at all for some in this world. (And that's okay, we don't need more population.)
Complex and ugly things can have funny unsuspected angles sometimes. Narcissistic parents that I know (including my mother) have said those words too, sure your words are true, but the funny thing is narcissistic are absolutely convinced they did the perfect thing and might lecture others into putting great effort... so some day... will be like "me", because the premise on those words is they were ready, it was difficult but they succeeded.

That's one of the ugliest (to me) parts of dealing with narcissistic people, how they can be convinced of holding the truth, doing the right thing and if not careful, they can drop those words on people not old enough to deal with such contradictions (and lies).
 

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Complex and ugly things can have funny unsuspected angles sometimes. Narcissistic parents that I know (including my mother) have said those words too, sure your words are true, but the funny thing is narcissistic are absolutely convinced they did the perfect thing and might lecture others into putting great effort... so some day... will be like "me", because the premise on those words is they were ready, it was difficult but they succeeded.

That's one of the ugliest (to me) parts of dealing with narcissistic people, how they can be convinced of holding the truth, doing the right thing and if not careful, they can drop those words on people not old enough to deal with such contradictions (and lies).
Darn right. Dealing with people who are blind to something is the worst...because it's just so, so difficult to get people to change when they can't or refuse to see that a change needs to happen.

I've been advised to just accept that my parents are the way they are, even though that's also difficult, because there's literally nothing else i can do. Sometimes i get frustrated and more extreme scenarios appear: Make everybody unable to have kids and then make kids in DNA labs. Or replace the DNA labs with chosen parents that pass a parenting test. I don't know. Frustration and the inability to act makes a person think strange things.

There's a quote i find very true: "Parenting is the hardest job in the world, but also the easiest job to get".

What do you think can be realistically done about narcissistic people who are (or want to become) parents?
 

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Darn right. Dealing with people who are blind to something is the worst...because it's just so, so difficult to get people to change when they can't or refuse to see that a change needs to happen.
So true

I've been advised to just accept that my parents are the way they are, even though that's also difficult, because there's literally nothing else i can do. Sometimes i get frustrated and more extreme scenarios appear: Make everybody unable to have kids and then make kids in DNA labs. Or replace the DNA labs with chosen parents that pass a parenting test. I don't know. Frustration and the inability to act makes a person think strange things.
I received similar advice, like accepting them as they are, accepting they are like that, etc. It was difficult... but then I learned to see: most advice came from people who don't live there, never had to deal with things like this, also people who ARE NARCISSISTIC themselves so they tell you the same regardless of whatever situation you tell them because at the end, they are not even paying attention. And also been told such advice from people who get weak when it comes to third age people. I mean, it's like X person is cruel but when white hair starts to appear people think "ohh poor grandpa/ma".

Regarding the word advice: strangers have nothing to do, but relatives... one has to learn not to just let people tell you things, but also remind them their responsibilities about such parents. My sister is amazing at telling you advice but she just gets there, eats and leave, never actually engages on anything!.

Change... I can get upset sometimes when talking about this topic and people just come with "you can't change them". That's the wrong approach, there are many ways to react to a problem, problems of any kind, but forcing someone to believe nothing can be done and people won't change is a problem itself. What I mean is you might have a problem, and people try to change the title of the problem like you are trying to change people (when it's not the case), the thing is people have to take responsibility of their actions, and even if someone refuses to, that doesn't matter, people are accountable of their actions even if they refuse to accept what they did.


There's a quote i find very true: "Parenting is the hardest job in the world, but also the easiest job to get".

What do you think can be realistically done about narcissistic people who are (or want to become) parents?
Nice quote. What can be done? I believe a lot, but people must have balls. I have analyzed several scenarios in my family, from start to end and let me tell you, there been multiple times when 15 people were in the same room, one is the narcissistic and the other 14 say "you are right", then outside they tell you "that's bad!!", why? because they have no balls. INDIFFERENCE is a great part of the problem. So the family is not working as a team because others refuse to take responsibilities too (not just the narcissistic).

I guess when it comes to "what can be done" one can only count with what's in your own hands, and that involves being brave and not letting guilt get on the way. Guilt is one of the key components. Problem is, when you grow enough (adult) to understand WHY this is wrong, a lot of the damage is already there, inside of you. Parents should have enough balls to intervene.

I don't know what could be done realistically, wish I knew. My sister is not treating her daughter so well... I already talked to every single member of the family and they are aware but they tell me not to get there, and everybody is letting my sister do as she please, her husband specially, they smile at her but they treat her as if she was some powerful god who can hear thru walls. It is disgusting. I confronted my sister and the result is she always stays near her daughter now, the little girl loved me, and I loved her.

They are doing to her what they did to me. Worse... the poor girl now 15 HAS NO FRIENDS, zero, none, empty list, file not found, nada.
 

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So true


I received similar advice, like accepting them as they are, accepting they are like that, etc. It was difficult... but then I learned to see: most advice came from people who don't live there, never had to deal with things like this, also people who ARE NARCISSISTIC themselves so they tell you the same regardless of whatever situation you tell them because at the end, they are not even paying attention. And also been told such advice from people who get weak when it comes to third age people. I mean, it's like X person is cruel but when white hair starts to appear people think "ohh poor grandpa/ma".

Regarding the word advice: strangers have nothing to do, but relatives... one has to learn not to just let people tell you things, but also remind them their responsibilities about such parents. My sister is amazing at telling you advice but she just gets there, eats and leave, never actually engages on anything!
Interesting perspective. Never thought of it that way; i'm not used to separating people in my head: This person didn't go through this so they lack perspective, this person has experience, etc. etc.

You're right, it's very easy to give advice (especially as a narcissist) but hard to act on it.

Change... I can get upset sometimes when talking about this topic and people just come with "you can't change them". That's the wrong approach, there are many ways to react to a problem, problems of any kind, but forcing someone to believe nothing can be done and people won't change is a problem itself. What I mean is you might have a problem, and people try to change the title of the problem like you are trying to change people (when it's not the case), the thing is people have to take responsibility of their actions, and even if someone refuses to, that doesn't matter, people are accountable of their actions even if they refuse to accept what they did.
I was born a fighter or something, haha. All my life has been conflict, mostly necessary conflict, because i always fight when things are not right. At some point when i was 13 or 14, a lot of people around me were learning about how bad humanity could get, and a lot of them were rather unmotivated. They all had the attitude of "you can't change anything, accept it".

Until recently i've had that attitude as well, but then i decided to fight again. (I don't mean physically, but i will punch and kick if i really have to.) And now i am more active in changing things for the better around me, again. But i also get more angry when things can't be changed after many tries.

Accepting your own action is different from accepting someone else's, and we all need to work on both.

Nice quote. What can be done? I believe a lot, but people must have balls. I have analyzed several scenarios in my family, from start to end and let me tell you, there been multiple times when 15 people were in the same room, one is the narcissistic and the other 14 say "you are right", then outside they tell you "that's bad!!", why? because they have no balls. INDIFFERENCE is a great part of the problem. So the family is not working as a team because others refuse to take responsibilities too (not just the narcissistic).

I guess when it comes to "what can be done" one can only count with what's in your own hands, and that involves being brave and not letting guilt get on the way. Guilt is one of the key components. Problem is, when you grow enough (adult) to understand WHY this is wrong, a lot of the damage is already there, inside of you. Parents should have enough balls to intervene.
So true! I totally agree! A large number of problems in the world today are caused by people being what i call "pussies". At risk of sounding crazy, let me just say that we live in an atmosphere of fear because some pussies are enough pussies to attack other people rather than confront their own pussiness, and the people getting attacked are also pussies so they don't fight back, and everybody else witnessing this does not take action because they are also pussies.

People need to learn courage, and to face things they did. I've been learning to be more brave since the first time i ever felt scared.

Anyways, this cowardice that pervades society is why kids can't make friends around the neighbourhood and stay out playing past dinner, or climb the highest tree in the woods to see a bird's nest, or even go near a forest at all. Everything is dangerous. There is no trust, no bravery.

I don't know what could be done realistically, wish I knew. My sister is not treating her daughter so well... I already talked to every single member of the family and they are aware but they tell me not to get there, and everybody is letting my sister do as she please, her husband specially, they smile at her but they treat her as if she was some powerful god who can hear thru walls. It is disgusting. I confronted my sister and the result is she always stays near her daughter now, the little girl loved me, and I loved her.

They are doing to her what they did to me. Worse... the poor girl now 15 HAS NO FRIENDS, zero, none, empty list, file not found, nada.
Sounds like me, except i just turned 16. Every time i've called someone a friend has resulted in near disaster, so i just call everyone that i don't hate my 'comrade' for fun.

Sad. I wish a realistic solution was easier, too. Have you tried confronting some other family members?
 

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You're right, it's very easy to give advice (especially as a narcissist) but hard to act on it.
True. Children or teens with difficult parents might often be told they are doing something wrong "you are doing it wrong, just do this and that". Damn, some people just have no idea what they are saying.

In the context of change, what to do and family. I've been surprised how many times difficult people are left alone (like: free) to do whatever they want to, and this involves relatives not moving a single finger when it comes to the children suffering abuse. I've been surprised (and sad) about my findings regarding my mother: "oh she is like that, always been" and then smile to her when she comes near. Many things that were hurting me because of the way she acts were no surprise to anyone but truth is... nobody cared and let her be, despite how it affected me. That shows what kind of family you have (I mean me) and how SOME TIMES this mean they can be somehow similar.

What I'm saying here in regards of the thread, topic and context is, many people here posting their past with a narcissistic parent usually were surprised. First they opened their eyes on "well, my dad/mom is not treating me well, is actually cruel to me in this and that way", it takes time to see it, to realize what's happening to you/me, then second: when they talk to others and guess what? no surprise, they knew, in fact that parent has been known for being problematic and usually playing the victim/know it all. It sucks.


I was born a fighter or something, haha. All my life has been conflict, mostly necessary conflict, because i always fight when things are not right. At some point when i was 13 or 14, a lot of people around me were learning about how bad humanity could get, and a lot of them were rather unmotivated. They all had the attitude of "you can't change anything, accept it".

Until recently i've had that attitude as well, but then i decided to fight again. (I don't mean physically, but i will punch and kick if i really have to.) And now i am more active in changing things for the better around me, again. But i also get more angry when things can't be changed after many tries.

Accepting your own action is different from accepting someone else's, and we all need to work on both.
Always been a fighter too, people love if this means they get something out of it, hate it if it means you refuse to live by their rules. Truth is "been a fighter / I'm a fighter" is cool, sad news is many people consider this being problematic. Keep your personality intact, now I know your age, good to know you know about this at such early stages, I didn't. Many here didn't.

Yet you being a fighter doesn't surprise me :) in many scenarios of narcissistic parents the children grow to become their parents. A lot of literature about this topic implies and ask you if you feel like they seem more like your children and you the parent.

Anyways, this cowardice that pervades society is why kids can't make friends around the neighbourhood and stay out playing past dinner, or climb the highest tree in the woods to see a bird's nest, or even go near a forest at all. Everything is dangerous. There is no trust, no bravery.
True. Some parents over protect their children, some just want to avoid them from looking how nice other families can be (nicer?) so there is no point of reference. Seeing other families and how they live can help people to understand what they are living is wrong.

Sad. I wish a realistic solution was easier, too. Have you tried confronting some other family members?
I wish there was an easier solution. Yes I tried to confront other family members. It's a long, long complex story, it's like "everybody is fine" the film with DeNiro. My family has a lot of issues and most try to act as if they don't exist. I talked to other members of the family and they confirm things I already knew via my grandparents, sad thing is most people when asked tell a different story.

And there is something else: money, when people don't complain because they don't want to risk what they will receive with X parent dies. It's really terrible. Just like many here in this thread say, the only safest solution has been staying away from them.

Good for you being that young and aware of the problem!
 

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True. Children or teens with difficult parents might often be told they are doing something wrong "you are doing it wrong, just do this and that". Damn, some people just have no idea what they are saying.

In the context of change, what to do and family. I've been surprised how many times difficult people are left alone (like: free) to do whatever they want to, and this involves relatives not moving a single finger when it comes to the children suffering abuse. I've been surprised (and sad) about my findings regarding my mother: "oh she is like that, always been" and then smile to her when she comes near. Many things that were hurting me because of the way she acts were no surprise to anyone but truth is... nobody cared and let her be, despite how it affected me. That shows what kind of family you have (I mean me) and how SOME TIMES this mean they can be somehow similar.
Do you speak Spanish? In your sig it says you're not a native English speaker and some of your family issues (avoidance, being polite and positive) seem like common issues in Latin American or Spanish families.

My boyfriend is from Venezuela and although most people in his family are not narcissistic, almost all of them are super-avoidant of real problems. His family is nice overall, but he's constantly talking about how they don't love you for who you are, but they 'love' you just because you're related to them.

What I'm saying here in regards of the thread, topic and context is, many people here posting their past with a narcissistic parent usually were surprised. First they opened their eyes on "well, my dad/mom is not treating me well, is actually cruel to me in this and that way", it takes time to see it, to realize what's happening to you/me, then second: when they talk to others and guess what? no surprise, they knew, in fact that parent has been known for being problematic and usually playing the victim/know it all. It sucks.
Damn, that was me too. I didn't think there were so many problems until i started dating...and then they were like a dictatorship, they totally cracked down on me. And playing victim as a parent is so horrible, i hate it with all my heart. So cowardly and cruel.

Always been a fighter too, people love if this means they get something out of it, hate it if it means you refuse to live by their rules. Truth is "been a fighter / I'm a fighter" is cool, sad news is many people consider this being problematic. Keep your personality intact, now I know your age, good to know you know about this at such early stages, I didn't. Many here didn't.
Of course, people don't want you to break the rules and stability of society. And i think kids just seem to know about more ideas at an earlier age in general, i'm not the only 'mature' one. I wish we could all be more simple sometimes! :tongue:

Yet you being a fighter doesn't surprise me :) in many scenarios of narcissistic parents the children grow to become their parents. A lot of literature about this topic implies and ask you if you feel like they seem more like your children and you the parent.
Yes, i'm constantly parenting 5-year-olds. And it's weird because they have to teach me to clean and cook, while i am forced to carry their emotional baggage for them :v

True. Some parents over protect their children, some just want to avoid them from looking how nice other families can be (nicer?) so there is no point of reference. Seeing other families and how they live can help people to understand what they are living is wrong.
My parents love comparing me to other people's kids, on the contrary. But that's only to make me feel bad in hope that i'll improve myself.

They don't compare themselves to other parents, no surprise.

I wish there was an easier solution. Yes I tried to confront other family members. It's a long, long complex story, it's like "everybody is fine" the film with DeNiro. My family has a lot of issues and most try to act as if they don't exist. I talked to other members of the family and they confirm things I already knew via my grandparents, sad thing is most people when asked tell a different story.

And there is something else: money, when people don't complain because they don't want to risk what they will receive with X parent dies. It's really terrible. Just like many here in this thread say, the only safest solution has been staying away from them.
Oh, i've never thought about the money. That reaaaaaaally sucks. If people are going to avoid issues i guess the only thing you can do is be good yourself, keep fighting for what you believe is right. Change paths when it doesn't seem to be going well, but always go for the common goal that is good for everyone.

I say it like it's easy, but believe me, i'm trying to do that in my life too :)
 

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Do you speak Spanish? In your sig it says you're not a native English speaker and some of your family issues (avoidance, being polite and positive) seem like common issues in Latin American or Spanish families.
Yes, Spanish from Latin América. Yes what you say is kind of common here, people avoiding problems and usually when people have terrible outcomes they can tell you "life is like this", you know, trying to convince you there are no other (better) ways. Yes I'm familiar with the experience of people not loving you for who you are. Honestly I've seen this in other cultures, countries, regions, but in my case I did feel rejected for who I am and I did get the evidence to say it (it wasn't just my perception).

Yes, parents playing the victim sucks, sucks big time. I Was thinking about this when you asked what practical ways can exist to solve narcissistic problems, well I don't know but influenced guilt seems to me the key, whenever you stop feeling guilty you start walking out of that cave (and yes living apart of them it's needed too).

Parenting... my mother always "forced" me to take care of others. There are natural and healthy ways but mine was forced, on everyone. It's draining and absolutely yes as you said one can end up there "carrying their emotional baggage". Codependency was one outcome in my case, it can be tied with narcissistic parents because they manage to make you create an unhealthy connection to their emotional states, that's how it works (it wouldn't if you don't care).

Comparisons... damn... that's very destructive. Ohhhhhh and yes they hate parents comparison (they end up loosing).


Make it easy? taking it easy? things that helped me a lot:


  • Talking about it with no shame. To my surprise many people live the same or worse but try to keep it secret.
  • Reading a lot
  • Keeping distance from manipulative people
  • Created distance from religious people or alike, it's an easy way to make you feel guilty. I've studied that in depth, it's a weapon for manipulation, funny thing is most religious books are about tribes or groups begging for liberation (and some disguised revenge)
Allowing myself to be loved, this was difficult than it sound. If you read the whole thread here and others alike, people with narcissistic parents kind of repeat shitty relationships because deep inside we are not used to having people who really love us in healthy ways, sometimes we might even feel we don't deserve it. Remember, the most important people telling you "I love you" were hurting you, you/we might grow apart or distant from situations where "people say they love us".

Talking with a friend who is a professional psychologist helped me a lot. I have never been in therapy, he kind of did it with me, it was very, very helpful and liberating. I've been considering some therapy but life doesn't allow me this at this moment. Talking to a professional was of great help, he wasn't the only one in my path helping me with this. Have you considered talking to a professional?
 

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Yes, Spanish from Latin América. Yes what you say is kind of common here, people avoiding problems and usually when people have terrible outcomes they can tell you "life is like this", you know, trying to convince you there are no other (better) ways. Yes I'm familiar with the experience of people not loving you for who you are. Honestly I've seen this in other cultures, countries, regions, but in my case I did feel rejected for who I am and I did get the evidence to say it (it wasn't just my perception).
Cultural flaws can manifest themselves so deeply in social connections most people never see them, because it's just passed from generation to generation. We need more people like you to break the links.

Yes, parents playing the victim sucks, sucks big time. I Was thinking about this when you asked what practical ways can exist to solve narcissistic problems, well I don't know but influenced guilt seems to me the key, whenever you stop feeling guilty you start walking out of that cave (and yes living apart of them it's needed too).
Stop feeling guilty...do you mean you need to stop feeling guilty or the parents? Do you think narcissistic people feel guilty, maybe very deep inside?

Parenting... my mother always "forced" me to take care of others. There are natural and healthy ways but mine was forced, on everyone. It's draining and absolutely yes as you said one can end up there "carrying their emotional baggage". Codependency was one outcome in my case, it can be tied with narcissistic parents because they manage to make you create an unhealthy connection to their emotional states, that's how it works (it wouldn't if you don't care).
This reminds me of psychopathy, manipulating others to feel bad for them and not taking responsibility for the manipulation.

  • Talking about it with no shame. To my surprise many people live the same or worse but try to keep it secret.
  • Reading a lot
  • Keeping distance from manipulative people
  • Created distance from religious people or alike, it's an easy way to make you feel guilty. I've studied that in depth, it's a weapon for manipulation, funny thing is most religious books are about tribes or groups begging for liberation (and some disguised revenge)
What kind of books do you read?

Religion can seriously mess people up in terms of guilt and fear. 'Liberation' sounds like communist propaganda, doesn't it? Beliefs like communism and religion don't really liberate people in my opinion, they just tie you up more.

Allowing myself to be loved, this was difficult than it sound. If you read the whole thread here and others alike, people with narcissistic parents kind of repeat shitty relationships because deep inside we are not used to having people who really love us in healthy ways, sometimes we might even feel we don't deserve it. Remember, the most important people telling you "I love you" were hurting you, you/we might grow apart or distant from situations where "people say they love us".
YES YES YES YES for some reason i keep running into people with mental and emotional problems and i've had 2 best friends with self-esteem issues (one suicidal), and neither relationship could survive. Almost everybody that gets close to me has problems, right now i don't even believe friendship is real. What are 'friends' for? You use them a few times and then discard them. They do help a lot in life, but you gotta let them go before they can hurt you even more than they already have.

My boyfriend also has self-esteem issues but he is an exception. He recognizes his own problems and takes steps to correct them. Supremely important.

Talking with a friend who is a professional psychologist helped me a lot. I have never been in therapy, he kind of did it with me, it was very, very helpful and liberating. I've been considering some therapy but life doesn't allow me this at this moment. Talking to a professional was of great help, he wasn't the only one in my path helping me with this. Have you considered talking to a professional?
So, actual liberation, haha. Yeah, i've had one therapist, but therapy is so expensive and guess what? My parents are so narcissistic they complain about Canadians relying on social services and not working. While they don't even get a second degree here in Canada to find better jobs? They've owned convenience stores and done a small business with two friends over the past 8 years they've lived in Canada, and no education, nothing. Thanks to them the household income is less than half the minimum household income. We need social services because of them.

Maybe i'll meet a comrade who is a therapist. Who knows?

(I use 'comrade' because i don't like 'friend' or 'acquaintance'. Comrade sounds too political but it gets the point across, that my comrades are simply on my side in a certain issue.)
 

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Potential parents: Don't have kids until you are ready in all aspects. That should mean not having kids at all for some in this world. (And that's okay, we don't need more population.)
I must say as a father of three, one can never be ready for all aspects. In fact, you’ll sooner than later realize that not only are you not ready to meet all the responsibilities entailed in this wounderful creation you helped make, but nobody else is either. You just do the best you can like you do in life and hope your mistakes don’t do irreparable damage to them. I’m crossing my fingers!
 

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I must say as a father of three, one can never be ready for all aspects. In fact, you’ll sooner than later realize that not only are you not ready to meet all the responsibilities entailed in this wounderful creation you helped make, but nobody else is either. You just do the best you can like you do in life and hope your mistakes don’t do irreparable damage to them. I’m crossing my fingers!
I agree, we can't just be ready. You are also right we should do the best we can, sad truth is for many people "the best you can" is not just not good enough, it can be harmful for others or just plain unhealthy, just like "trying my best to make YOU... do this or that" (that's how many approach this without even knowing, and some do know it).

Some people tell you straight how they KNOW they will be jealous of their own children because they want ALL the attention of the wife/husband for them. The bad thing about this is how many won't even say this in public or to their wife/husband. I'm not talking about specific people with specific needs about this, I'm talking about people who tell you "how nice it is to build up a family, have children, etc". It kinda feels like those killers who pleaded innocent and then suddenly they confess "yeah fuck it I did it and would do it again".

When I was young, very young I thought we all could get along with love because humans are naturally kind and noble. I've seen shit, and seen people playing the victim and them confessing, it sucks!!! (and here I'm talking about people who are parents).



A wise man that I admired for a long time who was also teaching some stuff of the mind (psychology, communication, God and behavior) said "anyone who tells you... he/she is going to do the best they can... is about to do shit...". This is not to say your comment (or premise) is not invalid, but it's not "valid" it's a technical thing and is not personal (not addressed to you), life is about effort and results, not good intentions. The trick to understand what I mean here is, many narcissistic people in fact believe everything they do is good, valid, enough, ready. So one is not the best for self measures or quality.

In fact in therapy (I mean any approach trying to solve a problem between more than two individuals) is about trying to measure impact, and many times about opening the eyes of person A about their actions matching their own expectations (and others).

Another key here is to understand "is the wrong answer to a diff question", So... father you treated me like shit "I did the best I could", mother I never felt accepted by you "I did my best". I have to deal with all those memories where you were just focused on yourself "I did my best and put a roof over your head".

Narcissistics can also try to push you... to be thankful!!! for their wrongs that they think are goods!
 

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Cultural flaws can manifest themselves so deeply in social connections most people
never see them, because it's just passed from generation to generation.
A lot of readings showed me how WE all can fall victims of problems, then repeating, and surprisingly not being aware of this. Many people end up in therapy because they can't be themselves but instead become copies of their parents (and their behavior), some people break the circle. Later in life had the chance to talk with psychologists and their confirmation, validation and stories about this were very educational.

I will reply without full quotes to you here.


Guilt. When someone truly loves, manipulation techniques making this person feel "not doing enough" is a key, we are talking here about people who don't respond to money, that kind of interests. In this context of narcissism, you can see (and read in this thread) guilt is all around and parents were making feel people they were not good enough. I suggest you take a look at literature about narcissism, the typical scenarios. When you stop feeling guilty BECAUSE you understand you are not doing anything wrong, that's when you start seeing things in a new perspective. Narcissistic people feel guilty you ask? I dunno, most won't EVER say sorry or apologize to you. Instead they will deny everything, gaslight you, or say you are the one doing it wrong.

Oh yes there are similarities with psychopathy and sociopaths. Readings? lots, online and offline, mostly about human behavior, psychology, testimonials, etc. Testimonials? to me it's better when I know the person for years, a lot of people just "lie".

Religion? it can be good, it can be bad, there are plenty of varieties of religion, but take a look how most (if not all) approach mostly everything about guilt. Christianity? we are born being guilty for something we didn't do. Running into people with problems? sometimes we don't know better, and it's our background.

Good that your BF is aware of the problems.

Therapy takes time, but mostly being honest with yourself, we all must do that if we want to evolve. Most problems in life come from the opposite: doing it wrong and lying to yourself. Oh yes in my family both my mother and uncle make fun of psychologists and therapists.

Wanna hear something funny? my own mother read a lot of books about behavior and psychology!!! She even enjoyed radio specials about it. What's so funny? imagine the psychologist on the radio is talking about people who YELL too much, well then my mother would make a direct comment about me, "you should listen to this because..." and she related my behavior with the topic on the radio. A guy who WHATEVER? me. Someone who WHATEVER? me. So she was projecting a lot of negative stuff on me. So funny right? nope.



To me, just like some forum members have said or implied here, knowledge comes easy!!!! sometimes the answers are clear and easy, but what's difficult is learning to behave in a different way, specially about limits, boundaries and stop feeling sorry for people who don't care about you.
 

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Make it easy? taking it easy? things that helped me a lot:


  • Talking about it with no shame. To my surprise many people live the same or worse but try to keep it secret.
  • Reading a lot
  • Keeping distance from manipulative people
  • Created distance from religious people or alike, it's an easy way to make you feel guilty. I've studied that in depth, it's a weapon for manipulation, funny thing is most religious books are about tribes or groups begging for liberation (and some disguised revenge)
Talking about it with others is good. And not just in secret (with trusted friends, therapists, etc.), but also with anyone, anytime. I've found this throughout my life. I was a single parent when it was still rare and most single mothers wore a wedding ring or lied (e.g., said they were widows or their husband worked out of town). I would just tell people I didn't have a husband, and many people opened up to me about their own lives and secrets, and others were kind or understanding. I could give other examples from other situations as well. . . . Of course, some people will still look down on you or not be able to relate, but I think it's important to tell your own truth, especially while you're still suffering.

Your other points are good too.
 

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I must say as a father of three, one can never be ready for all aspects. In fact, you’ll sooner than later realize that not only are you not ready to meet all the responsibilities entailed in this wounderful creation you helped make, but nobody else is either. You just do the best you can like you do in life and hope your mistakes don’t do irreparable damage to them. I’m crossing my fingers!
Yeah, i guess "all aspects" is a bit extreme, but i do come from parents who have committed the crime of having kids and treating them like utter trash.

Prepare for what you can, really. And remember to look at yourself and make sure you're not ignoring your own needs, that you're making good decisions for the most amount of people, etc. etc. It is always important to start with the self when learning to be a parent.

I wish you all the best with your kids :)
 

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Growing up with a Narcissistic Parent and how it impacts MBTI, relationships and life
Well I don't lie.

- WTF? you are lying, how can someone just say openly "I don't lie?" everybody lies!!!-

Nope, I don't. -Nobody adheres to those "norms" of behavior, nobody is perfect, you are lying-

Nope, I'm telling you the truth. And I don't make excuses, and it makes me suffer.


This is very interesting to me, I know people who also come from a narcissistic parent-home, I mean I know them for many years and very close. This was not obvious to me, but those people (like me) who were the target of the narcissistic parent weapons don't lie? if I was ever asked a favor at home, or a duty, responsibility or whatever was put on me... I went full on, a mission, 100% on it, and failure was not an option. Not delivering was not possible!!! and the nearness of failing caused pain on me, same as the people I'm talking about.

You have to remember many brothers can come from a narcissistic home, but that doesn't mean they are treated equally, usually one is the clown, scapegoat, etc you know the drill, if you don't it's good to read the literature about it.

Well, the ones who suffer, specially the scapegoat, always deliver. You can trust them and they won't lie when you try to discuss what they do and their methods.

My sister... she is the golden child, well she just as many others I've seen (now that I know about this) they:

- Don't feel bad if they fail
- Don't feel responsible
- Just like a narcissistic parent, they will EVADE or blame others
- When in conflict, they usually lie
- They lie and justify themselves so easily

So I was thinking as an exercise, why I never felt that was an option? like my mother asking me "why didn't you ETC"? and instead of feeling like shit of guilty because the outcome doesn't satisfy her, well... just... lie?? or make excuses? blame others??? It took me years and many people around me to understand my results were above the average, in fact it doesn't make sense when my mother said I Was failing at this or that, I wasn't, it was just her always disapproving. Sure it took me a while (not too much) to understand nothing I did was ever good enough. My sister was always praised, it doesn't matter if the results were bad!!! but me? it never mattered.

Among the things I did, only my scores at school seemed to make her happy (98 average, from 1 to 100), I got awards by this and they meant nothing to me, I even put them int he trash because were using too much space and my mother rescued them all to put them on a visible place, why? honestly my scores to me meant shit and didn't define who I am or the way I behave with people. Sure I missed those moments where she supposed to say "well done son, well done, I'm proud of you".

Despite many comparable situations... I worked my ass off, my sister lied. I don't consider lying an option, she does. It was never this evident to me, the dynamics? yes, but why is it too damn hard for me to consider it an option, I don't know.
 

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if I was ever asked a favor at home, or a duty, responsibility or whatever was put on me... I went full on, a mission, 100% on it, and failure was not an option. Not delivering was not possible!!! and the nearness of failing caused pain on me, same as the people I'm talking about.
So true. My childhood was exactly like this. I still find it very hard to deal with people who seem to get by on lies, half-lies, and excuses. Why say "I'll do it tomorrow" if you're not really going to do it tomorrow? It doesn't make any sense.

I never lied until I was about 25, on a rental application or something like that. At the time, I felt it was a matter of survival or necessity, an extreme case, certainly not an everyday occurrence. I talked to my brother and he said he was the same--that he didn't learn to lie until he was an adult.

Meanwhile, my sister was more pampered, partly because she had health problems since birth, so she learned to lie very early. If she didn't want to do something, all she had to do was say it was too hard or it made her sick or sore. My brother and I could never say that, even if we really were sick or were too small to do it or whatever. We HAD to do it. My brother and I were basically not allowed to be sick, and at one point my father refused to let me have medical treatment, until I almost died.

And our sister got new clothes all the time. She only had to say a sweater was scratchy or her shoes hurt her feet or some other clothing item bothered her in some way. My brother and I had to wear hand-me-downs, even if they were uncomfortable. As an adult, she is still good at stretching the truth and getting people to give her things, although I must admit she is a very hard worker.

I'm not saying I'm a saint. This kind of "honesty" has resulted in black-and-white thinking and other weirdness on my part.
 

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So true. My childhood was exactly like this. I still find it very hard to deal with people who seem to get by on lies, half-lies, and excuses. Why say "I'll do it tomorrow" if you're not really going to do it tomorrow? It doesn't make any sense.

I never lied until I was about 25, on a rental application or something like that. At the time, I felt it was a matter of survival or necessity, an extreme case, certainly not an everyday occurrence. I talked to my brother and he said he was the same--that he didn't learn to lie until he was an adult.

Meanwhile, my sister was more pampered, partly because she had health problems since birth, so she learned to lie very early. If she didn't want to do something, all she had to do was say it was too hard or it made her sick or sore. My brother and I could never say that, even if we really were sick or were too small to do it or whatever. We HAD to do it. My brother and I were basically not allowed to be sick, and at one point my father refused to let me have medical treatment, until I almost died.

And our sister got new clothes all the time. She only had to say a sweater was scratchy or her shoes hurt her feet or some other clothing item bothered her in some way. My brother and I had to wear hand-me-downs, even if they were uncomfortable. As an adult, she is still good at stretching the truth and getting people to give her things, although I must admit she is a very hard worker.

I'm not saying I'm a saint. This kind of "honesty" has resulted in black-and-white thinking and other weirdness on my part.
It is incredible how in such environments, one daughter/son can get away with whatever excuse they can make on the fly, dumb justifications and fails. Many times just nothing happen, and other times they even get positive reinforcement, help, assistance or worse: the parents push the favor/duty/responsibility on the other son/daughter.

On the other hand, whatever the other brother/sister does (that is actually good) is buried as if nothing happened, nothing is celebrated, acknowledge or talked out, it's just as it never happened, and often looked down, trying to find a mistake, or (again) even if you did well something is said as if you could have done it better or in less time.

Easy on one, and going hard on the other one.

A lot of people say "well get it over, don't be so hard on yourself", the problem is this thing sticks with you, and many times you end up being hard on yourself in automatic mode, it's difficult to get rid of this.
 

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I just realized today that I fell madly in love with a narcissist.
I'm angry and scared because I still feel attached to him.
I didn't realize he was a pathological liar, even though I overheard him bragging about how he was so good at lying that he could convince people the sky was green.
He told me personally he USED to lie a lot and that he changed, and I was foolish enough to believe him.
I realize now he didn't love me for even one millisecond and that shocks me to the core.. I can't comprehend such extreme lying.
I feel like such a fool, words can't even describe.
I tolerated such horrible abuse, and I kept making excuses for him. And his friends were all supportive of his actions. People I thought were my friends for so long.
I didn't know people could be like this.
He used me up and discarded me after I became too "creepy".
I really thought he was the one, and he said all the right things to keep me coming back for more.
I should have known he seemed "too" perfect.
He convinced me to end my friendship with my best friend, someone that was a sincerely loving person, the person I was closest to, who understood me, and laughed at my jokes.

I'm reading an article about how being addicted to a narcissist is worse than being addicted to heroin.
I've never been addicted to drugs in my life. I always avoided falling into that trap.
This is terrifying.
 

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He convinced me to end my friendship with my best friend, someone that was a sincerely loving person, the person I was closest to, who understood me, and laughed at my jokes.
Unhealthy people, narcissistic specially try to isolate you socially, they want to be the only source of info and light in your life (while it's actually darkness not light). They enjoy trowing passive aggressive attacks (and active ones sometimes) to the people who love you and you love. Don't loose hope, be honest with yourself and your true friend, chances are you have a long road ahead.

I'm reading an article about how being addicted to a narcissist is worse than being addicted to heroin.
There is something worse: being that narcissistic person. Get up, not having that person in your life is already a good start, just consider if seeking help is something to aim for (after saying you are addicted to a narcissistic, there can be many things hiding under that blanket).
 

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Unhealthy people, narcissistic specially try to isolate you socially, they want to be the only source of info and light in your life (while it's actually darkness not light). They enjoy trowing passive aggressive attacks (and active ones sometimes) to the people who love you and you love. Don't loose hope, be honest with yourself and your true friend, chances are you have a long road ahead.
Hey there, haven't spoken in a while and just decided to chime in and say that...damn, this sounds like my ex-best friend who had anxiety and depression. I just learned today that she's being hospitalized at mental health places instead of going to school. Do you think narcissism would be more closely related to some mental health issues than others?
 

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This is terrifying.
It is. How terrible people can be, especially to nice, un-terrible people like you.

Why do you think his friends were okay with what he did? Usually, when a person is problematic, their friends are just people they call friends but these people actually don't approve of the person.

I am so, so sorry this is happening to you...i had a short fling with a guy who i later found to be a psychopath, he seemed so good, and even though it was pretty short i was still hurt by it, and i can't imagine what you are going through with what sounded like a deep relationship. If you want to talk you can always DM me, or you can go to one of the many "venting" threads on the forum. Maybe a random anonymous person can offer you support, or maybe letting it all out can help.

Hope you can do something to make yourself happy soon. Right now, just feel what you need to feel, but i do hope it gets better, meaningless as this sounds.
 
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