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Then again, of course, the disintegration line, makes type Four also inclined to guilt-tripping -be it possibly more related more to significance, and similarly 1w2 and 3w2, each from their own core perspective.
oh I don't disagree that every type is predisposed towards taking one angle or another. It's just that I've experienced guilt trips by people in the past and I've known those persons to be NOT type two's. It's like how my friend who is a 4, I've seen her cope in ways traditional of 4's yet other times, she hasn't succumbed to the extreme negativeness, so in effect, the DEGREE to which someone relies on whatever negative coping patterns they've developed over time is relative not only to type, but to the health and EXPERIENCE of that person. I guess while I agree one type might be more apt to be this way or that, I do not think it's all encompassing, if that makes any sense. maybe I'm not wording this right but I'm hoping you get what I'm trying to say.
 

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I don't agree. Guilt tripping is most definitely NOT exclusive towards 2's no more than alcoholism being exclusive towards one type, because it's a negative coping pattern. And coping patterns are very much taught in addition to our genetic or 'type' propensity. When someone strives to be self aware they'll be able to see and change their behavior rather than be just another echo.

I honestly do not agree. The enneagram has worth regardless of this fact as well. I'm quite taken back someone would honestly believe that 2's are the only types of guilt tripping jerks in the world. How ridiculous of an assertion! I must be misunderstanding.
lol, no, 2's aren't the only type that guilt trips. i'm not sure where we're not understanding each other. (seriously, i'm laughing my ass off right now--not out of any sort of condescension towards you, and i'm not making small of your indignation--it's just that i'm sort of confused right now... but i have had this problem before, so maybe it's me :).


... actually, i think Animal covered it pretty well. i'll just say that every type has a core problem--that can lead to certain actions--and the person will deal with it in the only ways they are able to, based off of their own level of growth and experience.

(this doesn't exclude others from entering into these very same actions--although, the motivation for such actions might be different, hence the core problem... the difference in motivations, to me is significant, as one act is "forgivable"--based on the extent of the act--when paired with what's driving it. some people's problems are more predatory, other's are naturally more detrimental to themselves... i don't know, in itself i don't really see the 'push-pull' mechanic of someone who's sole purpose is acceptance [or finding it in them self] as a bad thing--i didn't mean for it to come off that way. in actuality, i think people could have far worse, and much darker faults.)

now i feel like i'm talking in circles, not wanting to say something that could be offensive, or too "mushy" either.

if you--or anyone else--would like some clarification, just ask.
 

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oh I don't disagree that every type is predisposed towards taking one angle or another. It's just that I've experienced guilt trips by people in the past and I've known those persons to be NOT type two's. It's like how my friend who is a 4, I've seen her cope in ways traditional of 4's yet other times, she hasn't succumbed to the extreme negativeness, so in effect, the DEGREE to which someone relies on whatever negative coping patterns they've developed over time is relative not only to type, but to the health and EXPERIENCE of that person. I guess while I agree one type might be more apt to be this way or that, I do not think it's all encompassing, if that makes any sense. maybe I'm not wording this right but I'm hoping you get what I'm trying to say.
Well, maybe your worry is more to be seen from a Fe perspective, from without, while I try to explain it from within. You seem to see it as character traits (like succumb to negativeness), as a result of health or experience? I would say coping styles are habitual strategies, that indicate health, with a certain objective, based on certain (false) assumptions, and sometimes (on) explanatory styles ('it always happens to me').

These strategies may have worked at some time, or on the short term, but they can be(come) maladaptive in the sense that they become self-fulfilling prophecies, or don't help you any where nearer to your objectives and may even work counter-productive (chase people away) on the long term. In that case it doesn't matter how many experience you have, if you stay in this cognitive behavioral loop (fixation), you may try the same strategy 'harder', but still have no result.

So I would agree with 'experience', meaning actually learning from it, and accepting and elaborating information that goes against these beliefs (negative feedback), and use this to change strategy. If someone gives you positive feedback but you explain it as 'they are just trying to be nice', or negative experience as 'they say that because they are jealous', then you miss out on learning from this experience. Another way of not making progress is for instance to only hang out with people who can be guilt-tripped.

It's related to health as far as this behavior is habitual and maladaptive. But sometimes it can depend on the pressure felt, so high stress-level can also make people return to old habits, like suddenly needing to smoke a cigarette again. Or start guilt-tripping. :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #24
My hysterical, extremely unhealthy, late, 2w1 mother used to guilt trip on a regular basis; so I became so good at observing it in others, that I basically became immune to it. I would go as far as to say that even in situations where I should feel guilty about something; as soon as someone tries to do that to me; I lose all feelings of guilt and just get pissed off and disgusted at the guilt tripper.
What tactics does she use?
 

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What tactics does she use?
Gaslighting mostly and all she wants is for me to be happy; so of course, I would feel guilty if I wasn't always having sunny emotions.
 
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