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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently noticed that I feel a certain guilt/stigma/shame/ or whatever you call it when I show any signs of interest in the opposite sex a lot of the time.

I realise how irrational this is, and I'm not by any means a reserved person at all, far from it. Yet for some reason I get a strong sense of guilt when it comes to women in any manner other than simply "professional", "polite" and basically impersonal.

It may be caused by my conservative/religious background, and I've been trying to overcome it.

Has anyone else encountered/overcome this before?
 

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Sort of, but l think a lot of it is because some aspects of dating and attraction have been made so...weird, socially.

l can't necessarily relate to ''crush talk'' or discuss every boy within a 10 mile radius, but if l'm into someone l'll basically express it the way anyone else does.

Also once you get past a certain point, er...sexually...you just don't really care anymore.

Not really guilt, more: wtf am l talking about?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sort of, but l think a lot of it is because some aspects of dating and attraction have been made so...weird, socially.

l can't necessarily relate to ''crush talk'' or discuss every boy within a 10 mile radius, but if l'm into someone l'll basically express it the way anyone else does.

Also once you get past a certain point, er...sexually...you just don't really care anymore.
I don't mean the gossipy talk stuff, I mean a sort of guilt in the same way you'd feel if you were shouting inside a library.

Well sex certainly hasn't fixed it for me, although to be fair I've only just become aware of this recently. It just feels like saying if you shout all the time, you won't feel guilt when you shout in the library, if that makes any sense.
 

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I'm not religious or anything but I do kind of feel shame about having feelings and attraction to women.
Its like I want to be open and ask them out and everything, but I'm just too afraid to do it.
Its silly but somehow I'm afriad of that reaction, I'm kind of afriad of the whole relationship thing in general.
(I have NO IDEA on how to handle it all)

And its not like I'm an awkward 16/17 year old here, I'm 22! -_-
 

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I am like that around most women. When I want to express it, I just presume they will skew it as perviness or sexism. Something.
 

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I recently noticed that I feel a certain guilt/stigma/shame/ or whatever you call it when I show any signs of interest in the opposite sex a lot of the time.

I realise how irrational this is, and I'm not by any means a reserved person at all, far from it. Yet for some reason I get a strong sense of guilt when it comes to women in any manner other than simply "professional", "polite" and basically impersonal.

It may be caused by my conservative/religious background, and I've been trying to overcome it.

Has anyone else encountered/overcome this before?
You would have to explain more deeply what is is you feel when attraction begins.

At a guess you let your lust enter the picture mentally and your emotional need(s). You may imagine yourself a vampire like or at least somewhat selfish entity engaged in a one sided (imagination often is) enjoyment of the target woman. Then, you feel guilty for your selfish desires and feelings. Very simple really.

But also very conceited. You are not that special my friend. Everyone else has these same feelings. Neither are you the universe's target for shame and mandatory politeness. You are part of the whole equation and you are allowed those feelings of lust and selfish interest for a damn good reason. Now own them. They are you. Get comfortable with them and appreciate them.

Can you not enjoy a good wine or fantastic food? Do you have no appetite when you approach them? It is the same for women. But you have to be a connoisseur. Learn to read the target and appreciate it for what it is. You may tear into a hamburger with reckless abandon, but Filet Minon is meant to be savored. Appetite is normal and not something to feel so guilty about. She has one to.

It's true there are some women out there that will look first for a polite and not heavy handed approach, but, they still want to see that comfortable self-interest behind your veneer of appropriate behavior. Your animal is still you. If you can't let it out of its cage and control it, that is not good and you need to find out why.
 

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Ask yourself, "Do I deserve this?" I think you will find your answer. I do think religion is partly it but don't blame the religion, blame the consequence of the religion - feeling less selfish. All you have to do is convince yourself that you actually deserve it. <-- coming from somebody with the same problem.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not religious or anything but I do kind of feel shame about having feelings and attraction to women.
Its like I want to be open and ask them out and everything, but I'm just too afraid to do it.
Its silly but somehow I'm afriad of that reaction, I'm kind of afriad of the whole relationship thing in general.
(I have NO IDEA on how to handle it all)

And its not like I'm an awkward 16/17 year old here, I'm 22! -_-
I ask girls out plenty, but I just can't feel good about doing it, when really I should because I feel good about complimenting people and I think asking someone out is really compliment in action.

Same. I think I feel like my attraction/interest is one-sided 95% of the time and an inconvenience to them. So I bury it completely most of the time.
Well, even when I know a girl is attracted to me the feeling is still there, its not the implications/consequences of the feelings that make me feel guilty but the feelings themselves that make me guilty




It's not a "may be" situation. That IS the reason it's happening.
So how to cure it?

I am like that around most women. When I want to express it, I just presume they will skew it as perviness or sexism. Something.
But do the feelings themselves create guilt? Like I said above its not the implications/consequences of the feelings that make me feel guilty but the feelings themselves that make me guilty, I'm not sure if you can relate.


You would have to explain more deeply what is is you feel when attraction begins.

At a guess you let your lust enter the picture mentally and your emotional need(s). You may imagine yourself a vampire like or at least somewhat selfish entity engaged in a one sided (imagination often is) enjoyment of the target woman. Then, you feel guilty for your selfish desires and feelings. Very simple really.

But also very conceited. You are not that special my friend. Everyone else has these same feelings. Neither are you the universe's target for shame and mandatory politeness. You are part of the whole equation and you are allowed those feelings of lust and selfish interest for a damn good reason. Now own them. They are you. Get comfortable with them and appreciate them.

Can you not enjoy a good wine or fantastic food? Do you have no appetite when you approach them? It is the same for women. But you have to be a connoisseur. Learn to read the target and appreciate it for what it is. You may tear into a hamburger with reckless abandon, but Filet Minon is meant to be savored. Appetite is normal and not something to feel so guilty about. She has one to.

It's true there are some women out there that will look first for a polite and not heavy handed approach, but, they still want to see that comfortable self-interest behind your veneer of appropriate behavior. Your animal is still you. If you can't let it out of its cage and control it, that is not good and you need to find out why.
I think you have made some big jumps while you rationalise it. I don't feel parasitical in anyway, it is an innate sense of guilt for something that I think a lot of others don't feel guilty about, and the fact there is innate guilt makes expressing it externally even more frustrating.

Analogy:

Its like I want to drink lots of whiskey, and the fact I have this want, makes me feel guilty, other people don't really come into play with regards to the roots of my guilt. My own want itself creates that.

Its not like, I want to drink lots of whiskey, but I'm ambivalent about it myself, however I don't want other people to know I want whiskey in case of the implications of that (e.g. they may think I'm an alcoholic/my habit is destructive etc)

This is why I feel it is so irrational and something I want to shake off, morals aside, its like feeling guilty for eating food.

Btw the theatrical style of your writing amuses me.
 

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I think you have made some big jumps while you rationalise it. I don't feel parasitical in anyway, it is an innate sense of guilt for something that I think a lot of others don't feel guilty about, and the fact there is innate guilt makes expressing it externally even more frustrating.

Analogy:

Its like I want to drink lots of whiskey, and the fact I have this want, makes me feel guilty, other people don't really come into play with regards to the roots of my guilt. My own want itself creates that.

Its not like, I want to drink lots of whiskey, but I'm ambivalent about it myself, however I don't want other people to know I want whiskey in case of the implications of that (e.g. they may think I'm an alcoholic/my habit is destructive etc)

This is why I feel it is so irrational and something I want to shake off, morals aside, its like feeling guilty for eating food.

Btw the theatrical style of your writing amuses me.
With the first reference to whiskey you are talking about the guilt of over-indulging. This is an appropriate arena for guilt. However, you are running your brain and simulating this as a projection into the future. It's great that your simulator warned you not to over-indulge. You are prescient now then about the very real guilt you should feel then, if, in fact, you do over-indulge. But for the simulator, turn the guilt off with the end of the simulation.

Your next paragraph allows us some insight. You are far too worried about what other people see as you, your image. As long as you get right within yourself, and according to your own moral code, that will work itself out. Trying to live according to someone else's codes and project that image causes you to become deceptive. Incidentally, I didn't get that impression reading your stuff. The deception is one you are pulling on yourself. Playing games internally. Even the game of trying to project an image. It's just more simulation that you are amusing yourself with.

So it still comes down to turning off the simulator at some point. Live the real experience and pay attention to the real input you get. Try to forbid the dreamworld, the intuition, until you can get it back into some form of alignment with reality. The thousand what-if and oh-I-bet tugs of your conscious mind can be ignored with discipline. Or you can at least put in a filter that only lets through the ones that seem at little less "wow" or "shame on me" and a little more "yeah-that-could-happen-and-wouldn't-be-so-bad".

Hey, it's awesome to be amusing. That has always been a background goal to my efforts. It's great to hear it is paying off sometimes. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
With the first reference to whiskey you are talking about the guilt of over-indulging. This is an appropriate arena for guilt. However, you are running your brain and simulating this as a projection into the future. It's great that your simulator warned you not to over-indulge. You are prescient now then about the very real guilt you should feel then, if, in fact, you do over-indulge. But for the simulator, turn the guilt off with the end of the simulation.

Your next paragraph allows us some insight. You are far too worried about what other people see as you, your image. As long as you get right within yourself, and according to your own moral code, that will work itself out. Trying to live according to someone else's codes and project that image causes you to become deceptive. Incidentally, I didn't get that impression reading your stuff. The deception is one you are pulling on yourself. Playing games internally. Even the game of trying to project an image. It's just more simulation that you are amusing yourself with.

So it still comes down to turning off the simulator at some point. Live the real experience and pay attention to the real input you get. Try to forbid the dreamworld, the intuition, until you can get it back into some form of alignment with reality. The thousand what-if and oh-I-bet tugs of your conscious mind can be ignored with discipline. Or you can at least put in a filter that only lets through the ones that seem at little less "wow" or "shame on me" and a little more "yeah-that-could-happen-and-wouldn't-be-so-bad".

Hey, it's awesome to be amusing. That has always been a background goal to my efforts. It's great to hear it is paying off sometimes. Thanks!
I don't know how you got that, but that's basically the opposite of what I was trying to establish with the whiskey analogy. Thanks for trying but it seems you don't really relate to what I'm saying, and you're taking it to be something else that is more familiar with you but not really what I'm describing.
 

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Same. I think I feel like my attraction/interest is one-sided 95% of the time and an inconvenience to them. So I bury it completely most of the time.
This is because the relations between the sexes are *necessarily* asymmetrical.
As I said in another post (http://personalitycafe.com/sex-rela...-women-creates-misogynists-9.html#post4051482)
Men are expected to
a) approach a woman they don't know
b) jump-start a conversation
c) simultaneously attract her interest without alarming her (despite pre-conditioning of women by society to think of men as dangerous)
AND segue the conversation to a point where it is both socially *and* emotionally congruent to ask her for a date
d) and to do this with NO prior information about the woman, her state of mind, relationship status, history, taste in men, hobbies, interests, or goals in life

The woman merely has to LOOK attractive enough to approach; and is not expected to put forth any particular effort to be respectful (either of the man himself or his obstacle course), intelligent, interesting, honest about her interest or intentions (how often do women stand up a man or merely flake with a text at the last minute after agreeing to a date?), nor is there any social requirement that she be polite at all when rejecting a man.


Women, on the other hand, have to put up with being approached at almost every conceivable time or place, by men, not all of whom are very smooth, or very confident, or very interesting; many of whom are only interested in using her body for sexual release, outside of any kind of relationship or commitment. She is expected to be able to screen the unattractive men from the attractive, accounting for looks, confidence, sincerity, "intentions," social standing (the man a woman is with does a LOT for her standing with other women, for good or ill), emotional compatibility, physical compatibility, sense of humor, personality, "interestingness," personality, physical safety, and suitability for LTR / ability to provide. And to do this on a near split-second basis, AND while being sensitive to a man's feelings -- even IF her main experience is with pickup artists, creeps (== men not good looking enough to have the right to hit on her / make the level of innuendo they attempt) -- because all the "nice guys" are too timid to talk to her, or flub up their approach due to nerves, or would be good in a relationship, but just don't give her that tingle right away, or would cost her social points if only dating her socially and she doesn't have him locked in, etc.

And "sexual liberation" has only clouded the waters, but allowing more leeway for men to be upfront in pressing for sex, and making it harder for women to say no (lest they be dumped by a guy they *are* attracted to, in favor of another girl who will escalate almost immediately).

'Tis a pretty kettle of fish, no?
 

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I personally can be hesitant about showing attraction due to the fact that it can be taken as creepiness and so on. But for the most part I don't try to hide it because I generally feel like my attraction is going to come out as obvious either way.
You need to match your confidence and attractiveness to your level of interest.
And attractiveness is more than physical: it is the vibe, the masculinity, the self-assurance.
(As a contributor to another site put it, for men, the attraction vectors are
Looks
Athleticism
Money
Power
Status

The more of those you exhibit, the more women will be receptive to your approaches -- have enough, and the women will start openly approaching YOU.

And you can learn to increase these on your own: and the exact mix of each one will influence the *type* of woman most attracted to you.
 

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Same. I think I feel like my attraction/interest is one-sided 95% of the time and an inconvenience to them. So I bury it completely most of the time.
Pretty much this or they are taken so why bother wasting my time to then get in some conflict with their boyfriend who was by chance at the other end of the bar. It also doesn't help when you've essentially always been treated by your peers as inferior and undeserving of anything nice.

I am like that around most women. When I want to express it, I just presume they will skew it as perviness or sexism. Something.
A lot of it has to deal with the modern feminist agenda. With all the politically correct sexual harassment BS it makes you nervous in a lot of cases to give a simple compliment like you look nice or pointing out something that visually looks nice (and I'm not even talking about going up and saying "Nice tits\ass" but any compliment that points out her feminine appearance).
 
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