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Discussion Starter #1
Well this is awkward.. I'm like a sterotypical MBTI ISTP minus the reckless impulsive behaviour (quite deliberate here and I overthink things).. but the functions are all wrong. I have valued Si-Te-Fi-Ne as per socionics SLI.

Clearly IP temperement, but that doesen't translate well into MBTI and when I have to explain functions I think of throwing the MBTI function model into the trash every fucking time.. so much garbage.

What should I do, just type ISTJ or.. ? This translation into MBTI sucs..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If you fit ISTP in mbti and SLI in socionics then it sounds like you already have your answer.

gg
Yeah, but it makes more sense to say "you see as a ISTP I have Te aux and I don't care about your abstract logic unless it's useful to me".

MBTI functions just never make sense.. why would someone with irrational element in the base function be IJ temperament ?
 

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I use the MBTI Dichotomies (Facets) only. This thread has descriptions of each facet.

I'm basically xNTP with the facets. With the P being less pronounced.

I don't bother with MBTI functions for similar reasons. The stacking doesn't make sense because, as you said, an Irrational type (someone with an Irrational base function) shouldn't be Ij temperament or any "j" type at all. I'm an extravert so it doesn't directly affect me, but the system itself isn't set up properly.

Further, I also have issues with how the functions are defined in MBTI, like MBTI Si is a mix of Socionics Te, Se, and Si. MBTI Si is not even a properly Irrational element because it's mixed with Te. To the point where I've seen comments from MBTI ENTPs saying stuff like "I have inferior Si, so I can't make a budget!" and blaming a lack of basic workplace organization skills or prioritization skills on inferior Si. 4D Te should help with that... :crazy:

When I first got into MBTI, I think the main author I read was Lenore Thomson, and her descriptions of some functions are at least closer to Socionics elements. Like her Ti description resembles Socionics Ti closely enough that I recognized it in myself immediately (though I also mistook it for my base function). I think a few MBTI-focused authors are influenced by Socionics enough that their descriptions of MBTI functions overlap with their respective Socionics elements, but in general, I wouldn't say the descriptions of MBTI functions and Socionics elements are equivalent.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Further, I also have issues with how the functions are defined in MBTI, like MBTI Si is a mix of Socionics Te, Se, and Si. MBTI Si is not even a properly Irrational element because it's mixed with Te. To the point where I've seen comments from MBTI ENTPs saying stuff like "I have inferior Si, so I can't make a budget!" and blaming a lack of basic workplace organization skills or prioritization skills on inferior Si. 4D Te should help with that... :crazy:
:smug: an ENTP with demonstrative Te unable to make a budget wtf. I could understand not wanting to do a budget or finding organization & efficiency tedious and boring. I wonder what type mistypes as ENTP, to then manifest as Te<->Si super-ego block.
 

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:smug: an ENTP with demonstrative Te unable to make a budget wtf. I could understand not wanting to do a budget or finding organization & efficiency tedious and boring. I wonder what type mistypes as ENTP, to then manifest as Te<->Si super-ego block.
Lol right, I get not *wanting* to budget but Te demonstrative should be plenty to successfully budget when you want to.

And organization/efficiency isn't the most "fun", but same thing, it should be easy.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily Te/Si super ego, but I do think a solid chunk of MBTI ENTPs are not Logical types in Socionics terms, and have weak Te. Maybe a mix of like IEE, EIE, even IEI. But honestly, I have not been to that subforum in years.
 

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MBTI P is about extravert perception so if you don't identify with that you prob better choose J
 

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Guys, what should I type as under MBTI
You should look at the two systems differently and not try to explain one through the other.
If you say you are ISTP in MBTI then that doesn't mean you have to be the equivalent in Socionics, since Socionics is a different model and has different explanations for the functions - aka. MBTI Si =/= Socionics Si, and so forth.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
You should look at the two systems differently and not try to explain one through the other.
If you say you are ISTP in MBTI then that doesn't mean you have to be the equivalent in Socionics, since Socionics is a different model and has different explanations for the functions - aka. MBTI Si =/= Socionics Si, and so forth.
MBTI P is about extravert perception so if you don't identify with that you prob better choose J
Under MBTI I test as INTP with a very strong percentage in P. I prefer to improvise on the fly, I don't really plan or if I do its a rough plan. I'm disorganized unless I have to be and I dislike bureaucratic inefficient structures or being told what and how to do often by incompetent management. I also dislike having to tell ppl what to do / being in management.. prefer if people just listen to reason and think for themselves. I guess thats why I'm a cat person as well.. I like people / animals who are independent and prefer to work independently myself.

I'm pretty sure I don't have Ti-Fe preference even tho I test INTP as I'm not inclined towards academics as theory that cannot be applied bores / frustrates me rather quickly despite me being able to comprehend it. Function preference is Te Si Fi Ne for sure. I'm not exactly sure just how detail orientated I am, as I can easily grasp the big picture and do see things as live systems of causation.

I think my Fi is pretty good, its easy for me to understand other people's psychological states & motivations as well as the emotional atmosphere.. but It often feels like there is a barrier between me and other people as I struggle to sync up with them emotionally and suck at emotional expression. Fe is probably the worst function I have even under MBTI, it has always been the cause of much social anxiety.
 

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Under MBTI I test as INTP with a very strong percentage in P. I prefer to improvise on the fly, I don't really plan or if I do its a rough plan. I'm disorganized unless I have to be and I dislike bureaucratic inefficient structures or being told what and how to do often by incompetent management. I also dislike having to tell ppl what to do / being in management.. prefer if people just listen to reason and think for themselves. I guess thats why I'm a cat person as well.. I like people / animals who are independent and prefer to work independently myself.

I'm pretty sure I don't have Ti-Fe preference even tho I test INTP as I'm not inclined towards academics as theory that cannot be applied bores / frustrates me rather quickly despite me being able to comprehend it. Function preference is Te Si Fi Ne for sure. I'm not exactly sure just how detail orientated I am, as I can easily grasp the big picture and do see things as live systems of causation.

I think my Fi is pretty good, its easy for me to understand other people's psychological states & motivations as well as the emotional atmosphere.. but It often feels like there is a barrier between me and other people as I struggle to sync up with them emotionally and suck at emotional expression. Fe is probably the worst function I have even under MBTI, it has always been the cause of much social anxiety.
Here's some parts of the ISTJ description from MBTI manual:

AtTheir Best ISTJs have a strong sense of responsibility and great loyalty to the organizations, families, and relationships in their lives. They work with steady energy to fulfill commitments as stated and on time. They go to almost any trouble to complete something they see as necessary but balk at doing anything that doesn't make sense to them. ISTJs generally prefer to work alone and be accountable
for the results; however, they are comfortable working in teams when that is necessary to do the job right, when roles are clearly defined, and when everyone fulfills assigned responsibilities. Competence and responsibility are extremely important to ISTJs, who expect others to be as dutiful and trustworthy as they require themselves to be.

Characteristics of ISTJs
ISTJs have a profound respect for facts. They use their Sensing primarily internally, where they have a storehouse of information upon which they draw to understand the present. Thus, they are likely to be
-Practical, sensible, and realistic
-Systematic

ISTJs use Thinking in decision making, taking an objective, logical, and tough-minded approach. Their focus is on the task or system as a whole, rather than on individuals. Thus, ISTJs tend to be
-Logical and analytical
-Detached and reasonable

ISTJs are clear and steadfast in their opinions because they have arrived at them by carefully and thoroughly applying logical criteria based on their experience and knowledge. They believe standard procedures exist because such procedures work. ISTJs will support change only when facts demonstrate such change will bring better results

Potential Areas for Growth
Sometimes life circumstances have not supported ISTJs in the development and expression of their Thinking and Sensing preferences.
If they have not developed their Thinking, ISTJs may not have reliable ways of dealing with the world and instead may focus solely on their memories and internal data.

If they have not developed their Sensing, they may rush into premature judgments and actions without considering new information.
If ISTJs do not find a place where they can use their gifts and be appreciated for their contributions, they usually feel frustrated and may

-Become rigid about time, schedules, and procedures
-go "by the book"
-Be critical and judgmental of others Find it difficult to delegate—to trust anyone else to do the job right

It is natural for ISTJs to give less attention to their non preferred Intuitive and Feeling parts. If they neglect these too much, however, they may:
-Not see the wider ramifications of current, expedient decisions.
-Concentrate on logic so much they don't consider impacts on people
-Fail to respond appropriately to others' needs for connection and intimacy

And here's some things on ISTP:

At Their Best People with ISTP preferences carefully observe what is going on around them. Then, when the need arises, they move quickly to get to the core of a problem and solve it with the greatest efficiency and the least effort. They are interested in how and why things work but find abstract theories uninteresting unless they can quickly apply them. They often function as troubleshooters.
ISTPs resist regimentation and rules, thrive on variety and novelty, and enjoy the challenge of solving a new, concrete, extensive problem.

Characteristics of ISTPs: ISTPs use their Thinking primarily internally to see the essential structure underlying the facts. Their minds seem to work almost like computers, organizing data, reasoning impersonally and objectively. They make rational decisions based on a great deal of concrete data.

ISTPs are likely to be

-Detached and objective critics
-Analytical and logical problem solver

ISTPs are realists, focusing on what is and what can be done with it, rather than on theoretical possibilities. They are often creative at dealing with the immediate problems and good at hands-on tasks. ISTPs are likely to be:

-Practical and realistic
-Factual and pragmatic

ISTPs are expedient and believe in economy of effort doing only what is needed with the least possible discussionand fuss. Their focus is on getting the desired results.

How Others May See Them
ISTPs are egalitarian and generally tolerant of a wide range of behavior—until their ruling logical principles are attacked. At that point, they can surprise others by expressing their firm and clear judgments. ISTPs listen and seem to agree because they are not disagreeing; later, others may find the ISTP was analyzing and making internal judgments. With their constant scanning for information and focus on results, ISTPs will change course readily if they see another, more efficient way. Because of this, others some
times have trouble "reading" them. They tend to be quiet and reserved, though they can be quite talkative in areas in which they have a lot of knowledge.

Others usually see ISTPs as
-Adaptable, action-oriented risk takers
-Confident, independent, and self-determined
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here's some parts of the ISTJ description from MBTI manual:

And here's some things on ISTP:
I marked what applies to me.

ISTJ

AtTheir Best ISTJs have a strong sense of responsibility and great loyalty to the organizations, families, and relationships in their lives. They work with steady energy to fulfill commitments as stated and on time. They go to almost any trouble to complete something they see as necessary but balk at doing anything that doesn't make sense to them. ISTJs generally prefer to work alone and be accountable
for the results; however, they are comfortable working in teams when that is necessary to do the job right
, when roles are clearly defined, and when everyone fulfills assigned responsibilities. Competence and responsibility are extremely important to ISTJs, who expect others to be as dutiful and trustworthy as they require themselves to be.

Characteristics of ISTJs
ISTJs have a profound respect for facts. They use their Sensing primarily internally, where they have a storehouse of information upon which they draw to understand the present. Thus, they are likely to be
-Practical, sensible, and realistic
-Systematic

ISTJs use Thinking in decision making, taking an objective, logical, and tough-minded approach. Their focus is on the task or system as a whole, rather than on individuals. Thus, ISTJs tend to be
-Logical and analytical
-Detached and reasonable


ISTJs are clear and steadfast in their opinions because they have arrived at them by carefully and thoroughly applying logical criteria based on their experience and knowledge. They believe standard procedures exist because such procedures work. ISTJs will support change only when facts demonstrate such change will bring better results

Potential Areas for Growth
Sometimes life circumstances have not supported ISTJs in the development and expression of their Thinking and Sensing preferences.
If they have not developed their Thinking, ISTJs may not have reliable ways of dealing with the world and instead may focus solely on their memories and internal data.

If they have not developed their Sensing, they may rush into premature judgments and actions without considering new information.
If ISTJs do not find a place where they can use their gifts and be appreciated for their contributions, they usually feel frustrated and may

-Become rigid about time, schedules, and procedures
-go "by the book"
-Be critical and judgmental of others Find it difficult to delegate—to trust anyone else to do the job right

It is natural for ISTJs to give less attention to their non preferred Intuitive and Feeling parts. If they neglect these too much, however, they may:
-Not see the wider ramifications of current, expedient decisions.
-Concentrate on logic so much they don't consider impacts on people
-Fail to respond appropriately to others' needs for connection and intimacy
ISTP

At Their Best People with ISTP preferences carefully observe what is going on around them. Then, when the need arises, they move quickly to get to the core of a problem and solve it with the greatest efficiency and the least effort. They are interested in how and why things work but find abstract theories uninteresting unless they can quickly apply them. They often function as troubleshooters.
ISTPs resist regimentation and rules, thrive on variety and novelty, and enjoy the challenge of solving a new, concrete, extensive problem.

Characteristics of ISTPs: ISTPs use their Thinking primarily internally to see the essential structure underlying the facts. Their minds seem to work almost like computers, organizing data, reasoning impersonally and objectively. They make rational decisions based on a great deal of concrete data.

ISTPs are likely to be

-Detached and objective critics
-Analytical and logical problem solver


ISTPs are realists, focusing on what is and what can be done with it, rather than on theoretical possibilities. They are often creative at dealing with the immediate problems and good at hands-on tasks. ISTPs are likely to be:

-Practical and realistic
-Factual and pragmatic


ISTPs are expedient and believe in economy of effort doing only what is needed with the least possible discussionand fuss. Their focus is on getting the desired results.

How Others May See Them
ISTPs are egalitarian and generally tolerant of a wide range of behavior—until their ruling logical principles are attacked. At that point, they can surprise others by expressing their firm and clear judgments. ISTPs listen and seem to agree because they are not disagreeing; later, others may find the ISTP was analyzing and making internal judgments. With their constant scanning for information and focus on results, ISTPs will change course readily if they see another, more efficient way. Because of this, others some
times have trouble "reading" them. They tend to be quiet and reserved, though they can be quite talkative in areas in which they have a lot of knowledge.


Others usually see ISTPs as
-Adaptable, action-oriented risk takers
-Confident, independent, and self-determined
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Here's some parts of the ISTJ description from MBTI manual:

And here's some things on ISTP:
This is socionics Ti-Se. I actually know someone who is like this. She absolutely sucks at social relations, sometimes I watch her traninwreck a good relationship she has with a friend just so she complies with her Ti principles. Only people who can swallow a lot of bs can stick with her. Often she will sulk and then sneak off to the toilet.. where she cries over fucking up yet another relationship. Rather anal personality, we but heads often. This is one woman most ppl are afraid to mess with and actively avoid. Despite this imo she is absolutely key to the success of the business I work at in her role as deputy director. As annoying as she can be, we need her to keep ppl in line, she and I don't get along, but I can still appreciate her for the valuable asset she truly is.

Ego Block
Introverted Logic (Ti, Ti)

LSIs are often arduous producers of logical structures, models, principles, rules, and order. In general, their lifestyle is at least partly organized according to the rules they impute to the world, which are paramount to their experiences. They may typically tend to conceptualize the world around them in terms of fixed categories, and can exhibit well-developed preferences for one category of things over another. Often, LSIs' interpretation of the world is directed towards existing social structures; their rules and guidelines pertaining to the behavior and actions of others; if LIIs are stereotypically the abstract physicists, building systems and thought structures that have little to do with "real world" life, LSIs might likewise stereotypically represent hard-line military officers, making sure that everyone stays in line. LSIs can often integrate into their rule-based framework the conventions of the predominant social order, and they may be vocally critical or judgmental of those that fail to follow the real or imagined conventions ascribed to them. LSIs can also sometimes be sticklers for minutiae in rule-based systems; they may have little sympathy or leeway for those individuals who require exemptions (along the lines of "no, sir, this bus must leave exactly at 7:30").

Many LSIs give off a sense of certitude and absolution. They can quickly and easily schematize what is correct and incorrect according to the systems they are familiar with and may appear to be absolutely certain of their views, unable to represent any ambiguity in the principles that they put forward. This may take the form of stringent intellectual, political, or other viewpoints, or simply in a high degree of confidence in the principles they put forward towards the social environment around them. LSIs, moreso than any other type, are likely to have firmly unchanging views over a long period of time. Even when LSIs do not have firm, unchanging viewpoints, they may parade their current opinions with brash conviction, as though the logic of their thoughts is sound and irrefutable. Of course, many LSIs are much less extreme in their viewpoints, and can instead come across as apathetic about enforcing their viewpoints, or primarily sociable in their orientation.

Intellectually, LSIs, like other Ti types, are often most interested in determining underlying principles, causal mechanisms, and systems to account for real-world phenomena. They may have a tendency see the principles that they develop as universal and without exception. Additionally, they usually tend to emphasize the consistency and importance of their espoused rules, principles or ideological perspectives to a greater extent than the external evidence supporting these rules, which is often a much less poignant aspect of their thought processes.
Extroverted Sensing (Se, Se)

LSIs can be forceful, confrontational, and proactive. However, LSIs' confrontational nature is subdued and subservient to Ti ideology. As such, they are unlikely to express the same degree of raw impulsiveness as Se dominant types might, but rather are more likely to confront others in contravention of the "rules" or some other rule-based system. They are sometimes unafraid of criticizing or berating others who fail to act in accordance with their expectations (though they may be reticent to speak critically as well, as this may contradict their program of social order). In addition, LSIs can be quite proactive and can push others simply to get things done. They may feel a need to possess a certain degree of control over the situations and individuals around them, in order to ensure that their guidelines are followed appropriately.

LSIs may have a tendency to attend to the impact, influence, or impressiveness of their creations or behaviors on the outside world. Many LSIs have a sophisticated sense of fashion or dress style -- or if not, at least the confidence that they could dress impressively if inclined to do so, or critically evaluate whether others are dressed impactfully. LSIs with a theoretical bent may be inclined to create highly complex and dense systems with complicated terms and extensive integration of ideas, designed to be grandiose, intimidating, and impressive.

Some LSIs may have a gritty, rugged, and gruff character. Like other beta quadra types, they may tend to have an "us vs. them" mentality (in part influenced by their tendency to think in rigid categories). On the other hand, many LSIs have a much more benign, open, and friendly demeanor.
Super-Ego Block
Introverted Ethics (Fi, Fi)

LSIs are sometimes aware of their internal sentiments and attitudes towards others, but do not always give their emotional responses much attention. They typically are disinclined to depend upon their interpersonal attitudes or internal moral consciousness as guiding principles, instead construing reality through the lens of somewhat stiffer and less sympathetically inclined standards of behavior. They may be disinclined to critically evaluate the ethics of their systems; rather, they may take their own standards somewhat for granted and make value judgments about others based on their conformance to their own accepted principles. They may, in formal contexts, appear to be somewhat cold, harsh, and inflexible. They may have rather dispassionate, formal, black-and-white views of morality (for example, Ayn Rand's philosophy -- which was rigid, "rational" in its criticism of emotional motivations of any kind, and unfailingly unambiguous -- is a phenomenal example of an a Ti and specifically LSI approach to morality).

LSIs are often by default conventional, polite, and perhaps somewhat mechanical (or even forcible) in their approach to social interaction. They may be predisposed to pay more attention to following relevant social ettiquette and appearing personable than to directly empathizing with, relating to, or interacting spontaneously with others. They often pay less attention to or have difficulty discerning the attitudes that others harbor towards them or third parties, and may be characteristically suspicious of others' motives or attitudes.
Extroverted Intuition (Ne, Ne)

LSIs may have difficulty processing ambiguity or uncertainty. When they are the victim of necessary ambiguity, they may have a tendency to focus on the worst-case scenario, and may attempt to expend so much effort as to be prepared for any conceivable contingency. Some LSIs may also tend to be very suspicious of others' intentions. Many LSIs have a tendency to see most issues in black and white terms, seeing others as clearly right or wrong, and they may have difficulty adapting to ideas espousing shades of gray, multiplicity of causes, or doubt, often seeing such perspectives as logically weak, unstructured, or inconsistent. Indeed, they may see little value in such ambiguous perspectives and may see them as not useful at all -- rather, strong and unarguably consistent points may seem more compelling and important to them. Only through a gradual and tireless process of experiential learning can LSIs grow to understand and alter the nature of their perspectives and categories (many older LSIs are more "mellow" than "rough").

LSIs' logical programs may necessitate that they feel a certain degree of control over others and their surroundings. LSIs that feel that they have none of their necessary control in a situation may react irritably, argumentatively, and sometimes lose control of their emotions in the form of a seemingly childish tantrum. They may have difficulty dealing with people who are consistently spastic and unreliable in their behavior, or who are always doing or seeking something new -- such individuals are too unpredictable and lawless, and offend their ability to oversee others around them.

LSIs may sometimes be seen as paranoid, overly defensive and quite territorial in dealing with others.
Super-Id Block
Extroverted Ethics (Fe, Fe)

Being entrenched in logical, systematic thinking processes, LSIs need others to create an emotionally inclusive atmosphere where they know they are accepted and liked. Left to themselves, are usually quiet, reserved, and often relatively formal in their behavior, and frequently are not highly aware of how they might enliven the atmosphere or develop camaraderie and connections with others. LSIs might prototypically organize group events or precipitate a situation where emotional bonding might occur, but they are almost unable to create the bonding themselves; they need others to fill the situation with feeling, laughter, and fun.

As LSIs sometimes devote themselves extensively to whatever they do, they may tend to build up a lot of emotional tension, which can only be released when somebody gives them a vivid reminder that there is more to life than their responsibilities.

LSIs respect and admire people who are deeply passionate about things and care enough about them to instill their attitudes in others and try to get them involved. They can forgive a little unruliness, impulsivity, and disorderliness for the emotional value such people give them. LSIs sometimes tend to suffer from a deficit of passion and feel emotionally connected to the world mainly when they are around lively and emotional people who can generate a sense of kinship and group activity. Indeed, LSIs around passionate individuals can loosen up and moderate their usually stern lifestyle.

Like other beta quadra types, LSIs can show a preference for environments of where free and sometimes crude expression is permissible, and where they will be not be judged harshly or negatively perceived for their viewpoints, insensitivity, or humorous expression. More than other beta types, they may tend to monitor themselves excessively to avoid appearing rude or being so evaluated if they do not feel accepted and safe from chastisement.
Introverted Intuition (Ni, Ni)

LSIs, like other beta quadra types, are especially motivated by higher meanings and weighty causes. LSIs may feel innately that it is their civic responsibility to enforce or ensure their desired social order, or whatever higher drive they find themselves with. Being oriented towards Ni with Fe, they may be somewhat more oriented to see their causes as collectivistic in nature, and to see the success of the collective (e.g. a nation or party) rather than the specific fortunes of individuals, as paramount -- though for intellectual rather than moral reasons, they might believe exactly the opposite. LSIs are not uncommonly involved in politics and in the process of formulating important decisions (according to Expat's typings, a disproportionate number of Roman Emperors who came to the throne by non-hereditary means were of this type), and may be somewhat opinionated about the different existing ideologies towards an issue.

In some situations they can become followers of others' causes, passions, and interests rather than their own, and they may feel a certain emptiness in the absence of others who can supply them with a higher sense of purpose for their actions.

LSIs can have a tendency to act impulsively and to lack self-control, sometimes appearing aggressive and overbearing.
Id Block
Extroverted Logic (Te, Te)

LSIs can tend to have rigid, unchanging views that are not updated over time and not stringently evaluated in terms of their applicability in practice. They can sometimes adopt ideological viewpoints that pay only passing attention to, or are modestly unconcerned with the acquisition or application of new or updated factual information.
Introverted Sensing (Si, Si)

LSIs may have some interest in creating comfortable, commodious surroundings for themselves, but tend to be unconcerned with having a pleasant physical environment, and are often more concerned with their ability to control the people or situation around them or their own personal goals.

LSIs, perhaps more than any other type, are reputed for their stubborn resistance to the reality of their bodies, and the nonrelevance of their physical states as compared to their own personal goals and volitions. At a socionics meeting, an LSI once walked four miles in his sandals, resulting in a badly scraped and bloody foot, and proceeded to sit through the remainder of the four-hour-long meeting before tending to it.
 

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MBTI functions just never make sense.. why would someone with irrational element in the base function be IJ temperament ?
mbti considers that only your more conscious extraverted function is apparent to other people so since ISTJ more "consicous" extraverted function is Te, they consider this type a judger. Which is wrong btw, I agree with you. Socionics got it right in this sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
mbti considers that only your more conscious extraverted function is apparent to other people so since ISTJ more "consicous" extraverted function is Te, they consider this type a judger. Which is wrong btw, I agree with you. Socionics got it right in this sense.
You type as INTP under MBTI as well. Why? Its what I test as.. hmm
 

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This is socionics Ti-Se. I actually know someone who is like this. She absolutely sucks at social relations, sometimes I watch her traninwreck a good relationship she has with a friend just so she complies with her Ti principles. Only people who can swallow a lot of bs can stick with her. Often she will sulk and then sneak off to the toilet.. where she cries over fucking up yet another relationship. Rather anal personality, we but heads often. This is one woman most ppl are afraid to mess with and actively avoid. Despite this imo she is absolutely key to the success of the business I work at in her role as deputy director. As annoying as she can be, we need her to keep ppl in line, she and I don't get along, but I can still appreciate her for the valuable asset she truly is.

text
Socionics is inconsistent with its definitions, not that MBTI is any better, they both don't use the attitude of adaptation in a consistent manner. SE is not forceful by nature, "Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality, with little tendency either for reflection or commanding purpose." - Jung on SE. Unhealthy Se types can become unethical hedonists and treat people wrongly but not in the way Socionics describes. Controlling people to meet one's goals is introvert behavior and anyone with extravert perception is not an introvert.

16personalities is a Big5 - MBTI crossover btw, they use rather different definitions too
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I thought you typed ISTP under mbti, no?
I self type as one due to being SLI and via interaction with actual INTPs I can tell I'm more pragmatic and lose interest for abstraction if I see no practical potential in it, which makes my interest in academic stuff often rather superficial and mostly for fun. I always test INTP across many MBTI tests.

EDIT: btw I figured out a good way to tell SLE and SEE apart. SLEs are choleric and SEE sanguine in temperament. Lmao I'm phlegmatic.
 

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Leaving the final conclusion aside it is clear that in two dichotomies you are somewhat borderline. Which explain your confusion.

Some people are like that so it is not really a big deal. Infact if you look it at certain angle, your proclivity to prefer some things in balance could be used to your advantage. I would, if i were you.

You know personally I think that if there is such thing as ultra man, uber homo sapiens, that person personality must be right smack in the middle of all dichotomies. Which shows a very balanced and developed person. As long as that person can handle unbelievable amount of pressures from all side which try to push, pull, tear, quarter him/her. Any person which can stand that situation IS an uber homo sapiens.
 
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