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First of all, what I'm about to detail is not true of ALL ISFJs and I know this (as I have an ISFJ friend who does not do the following) but I'm curious about the best way to resolve a conflict with you guys...

In short, I had an argument with my somewhat-unhealthy ISFJ grandmother that she initiated. We had a conversation in which she passive-aggressively insulted myself and my mother, and was attempting to give out unsolicited (and irrational) advice on a situation in which she was not in any way involved. I gently tried explaining to her that not everyone is the same (don't respond in the same manner, don't behave in the same ways, etc.) but basically got an, "I know that!" response after which she continued to talk over me. It basically culminated in me getting frustrated and saying, in short, that I can't simply play the role of "mindless drone" that she can at times and go with something with which I do not agree (she was suggesting that I basically do just that). I recognized IMMEDIATELY the mistake that I had made. I should have ended the conversation as I sensed her becoming angry, and I definitely should not have made that remark. Yes, she had hurt and annoyed me, but it was uncalled for. I immediately apologized for being disrespectful and hurting her..yada yada. Well, she was having none of it. This irritated me, for two reasons: 1) She NEVER apologizes for anything. The closest she'll get is the cop-out, "I'm sorry you feel that way" response...and 2) I know that now she is going to call every member of the family that she can get in touch with and attempt to destroy my reputation. Ugh! I have validated her feelings, sincerely apologized (she is my grandmother-annoying, but I do care about her) but she is just giving me the silent treatment.

So do I now just give her space? Is there something that I could possibly say that could help her to be more receptive? I don't want there to be conflict between us (and I really don't want her to spend the next month telling anyone who will listen to her how horrible that I am-again, she does this). I hate drama, and would like to resolve this ASAP. Help!
 

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This is clearly a case of emotional manipulation (on her behalf). It is worth nothing immediately that this is not type-specific.

The problem with manipulative people is that they force you into an apology thereby validating their own erroneous position. Personally, I would leave it; you've done all you can. The silent treatment is a childish way of seeking attention. It may be that she needs time to think about her reactions (INFPs do this), but if she doesn't seek to re-engage with you, I would suggest it is a method of manipulation.

As an aside, she sounds like an unhealthy e2.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is clearly a case of emotional manipulation (on her behalf). It is worth nothing immediately that this is not type-specific.

The problem with manipulative people is that they force you into an apology thereby validating their own erroneous position. Personally, I would leave it; you've done all you can. The silent treatment is a childish way of seeking attention. It may be that she needs time to think about her reactions (INFPs do this), but if she doesn't seek to re-engage with you, I would suggest it is a method of manipulation.

As an aside, she sounds like an unhealthy e2.
In my gut, I agree that I have done all that I can. My biggest issue (and one about which I can do nothing) is that she is going to seek out any female family member she can and gossip about our exchange, and given that nearly ALL of the women in my family are XSFJs, they take what she says at face value. So what results is that I get the cold shoulder or outright lectures from my multiple family members, and not just my grandmother. It's f*cking annoying.

The solution in the future is to simply not engage in conversation with her if at all possible, and when I do, tune-out what she says.
 

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Yeah, I agree that even though some of this might be brought back to type, a lot of it to me just sounds like a situation I would give the same advice to anyone of any type about. She sounds like as an older person, she's very set in her ways, and arguing with her when she's not going to listen will just cause you nothing but frustration. This is the way many older people are.

As far as the rest of your family goes...I would basically just discuss what you can with them and leave what she says about you out of it. If they don't bring it up, then just don't worry about what you don't have to hear about...if they don't have the guts to bring it up with you, then it's not worth your time anyway. If they do bring it up, just let them know that your grandma is only giving one side of the story, present your side of it, and just tell them that any issues they have with you they should bring up directly with you rather than listening to what your grandma has to say about you. Gossiping about someone is a negative trait in any type.




As far as ISFJ specific advice...I think in general, ISFJs respond to the notion of the knowledge that we've hurt someone. Oftentimes it's better to appeal to an ISFJ's emotions rather than our logic. If she said something that insulted you or your mom, you should just explain that to your grandma, and ask her how she would feel if you said something that insulted her. Basically, let her know how what she says makes you feel. If she doesn't care about what you feel, then let her know that's what you're perceiving...that she doesn't care about you or your emotions. If she's ok with that, then ask her why you should care about what she feels. You can pretty much show her that it's a two way street, and that you expect to get the same respect from her that she expects to get from you.


If she just stubbornly refuses to listen to any of that, that just means that she's unhealthy and too old and set in her ways to do anything about it. But I can't think of anything type related that would help with that. You just have to accept that some people are going to be unreasonable, and you have to focus on working with other people in your family who are reasonable.
 
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I gently tried explaining to her that not everyone is the same (don't respond in the same manner, don't behave in the same ways, etc.) but basically got an, "I know that!" response after which she continued to talk over me. It basically culminated in me getting frustrated and saying, in short, that I can't simply play the role of "mindless drone" that she can at times and go with something with which I do not agree (she was suggesting that I basically do just that).
ok, shes a grandma, this means she wants whats best for you and your mother (assuming its not her daughter-in-law and she doesnt have some problem with her) that being said, the problem that i saw in the conversation happened BEFORE the comment you made about her being a drone... it was when she commented and you then didnt show any signs of listening (truly giving any verbal acknowledgement to her words of advice...as wrong as they may be in your opinion).

So she says something she believes to be ultimate truth and you then combat this, essentially telling her (your elder who has lived far longer than yourself) that shes wrong, and then tried to school her on the fact that people are different from one another. She likely took this as very condescending. Not only that but the fact that you didnt take her advice (that she truly believes and feels strongly about) so to her you could be in danger of any number of bad things happening. I know i tend to expect the worst and when i am standing behind something as strongly as she was its because its for your own good... i dont want anything bad to happen to you and i really believe that you taking my advice will protect you. Shes going to be closed-minded until shes no longer angry or stressed. So i say give it a day or two and then go to her very submissively. Tell her that you love her and that you know she wants the best for you and how much you appreciate that... then explain to her in a very non-debate way that you believe your way of doing things is the better one, not because you know better than her, but because you have done your research. Explain to her that you are willing to consider her advice if your way does not work out.
 

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oh also what teddy said, if she hurt your feelings you could gain some empathy from her by mentioning that
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ok, shes a grandma, this means she wants whats best for you and your mother (assuming its not her daughter-in-law and she doesnt have some problem with her) that being said, the problem that i saw in the conversation happened BEFORE the comment you made about her being a drone... it was when she commented and you then didnt show any signs of listening (truly giving any verbal acknowledgement to her words of advice...as wrong as they may be in your opinion).
Ok, I will include some details that I didn't the first time. Yes, she is my grandma. It is for this reason that I did "show signs of listening", and even said I would take her advice into consideration. This wasn't good enough (apparently it's an unwritten code that I have to explicitly tell her that I'm going to do EXACTLY as she says). I only became agitated when she continued to push the advice and began insulting me. Grandma or no grandma, no one appreciates being insulted.

I also informed her that she hurt me, but she was apathetic. All she seemed to see was how the fact that I didn't immediately agree to do as the suggested gave her the right to say whatever she wanted. There's an odd hypocrisy that she has: she wants to state her opinion as bluntly and as harshly as she wants, yet she hates conflict of any kind. She has done this to others. She is essentially rude to them, they respond negatively to a degree, and she immediately becomes offended that they have responded so negatively and proceeds to give them the silent treatment. Whether a person is 18 or 65, that is emotional manipulation. I'm not (and haven't) made some sort of fight out of it with her, and do not plan to. I am, however, going to attempt to limit my contact with her as I think I noted previously.
 

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Ok, I will include some details that I didn't the first time. Yes, she is my grandma. It is for this reason that I did "show signs of listening", and even said I would take her advice into consideration. This wasn't good enough (apparently it's an unwritten code that I have to explicitly tell her that I'm going to do EXACTLY as she says). I only became agitated when she continued to push the advice and began insulting me. Grandma or no grandma, no one appreciates being insulted.

I also informed her that she hurt me, but she was apathetic. All she seemed to see was how the fact that I didn't immediately agree to do as the suggested gave her the right to say whatever she wanted. There's an odd hypocrisy that she has: she wants to state her opinion as bluntly and as harshly as she wants, yet she hates conflict of any kind. She has done this to others. She is essentially rude to them, they respond negatively to a degree, and she immediately becomes offended that they have responded so negatively and proceeds to give them the silent treatment. Whether a person is 18 or 65, that is emotional manipulation. I'm not (and haven't) made some sort of fight out of it with her, and do not plan to. I am, however, going to attempt to limit my contact with her as I think I noted previously.
i wouldnt say its emotional manipulation, but its selfish and rude.
 
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