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Discussion Starter #1
so if your happy, should it matter if your happiness is built on lies? Would you rather know that your lover is cheating on you or would you rather remain blissfully unaware? If you were in the matrix would you really want to take the blue pill and be subjected to the truth? What good is the truth if all it leads to is misery?


I think I'd settle for a life full of happy little lies. If you don't know they are lies then why even care.

I know there are situations where the truth makes you happier, this is a hypothetical one where it does not.
 

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so if your happy, should it matter if your happiness is built on lies? Would you rather know that your lover is cheating on you or would you rather remain blissfully unaware? If you were in the matrix would you really want to take the blue pill and be subjected to the truth? What good is the truth if all it leads to is misery?


I think I'd settle for a life full of happy little lies. If you don't know they are lies then why even care.

I know there are situations where the truth makes you happier, this is a hypothetical one where it does not.
Gosh what difficult questions! I want the pure, unadulterated, painful, TRUTH! And I've thought about that Matrix thing. I really have! :laughing: I was bouncing out of the Matrix *snaps* so fast! :tongue:

What's so special about the Truth you ask?!? Ask every religion who creates a God and claims their way contains the Truth! Ask every philosopher whose ever attempted to develop a philosophy for living. Ask every child who hides under their parent's bed or spies to see what's going on behind closed doors! Knowing the truth can satisfy a major hunger within us. Remember that guy who had regret when he left the matrix?!? Yeah, he suffered from serious hindsight bias! But even he succumbed to the desire to know the truth. It's just....amazing!

And yes, I would want to know if my man was cheating. :laughing: That way I could lay it on him good! The sooner I know, the sooner i can move on.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I guess I'm tired of knowing when I'm being lied to, of always having my suspicions confirmed. I would much rather live in a virtual world of my own design knowing it was all fake than to sift through the bullshit people try to feed me.
 

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I guess I'm tired of knowing when I'm being lied to, of always having my suspicions confirmed. I would much rather live in a virtual world of my own design knowing it was all fake than to sift through the bullshit people try to feed me.
But then you'd only be deceiving yourself! Isn't that worse? o_O
 

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Discussion Starter #6
so it's better if I am miserable as long as i know the truth? I don't see how that makes it any better.
 

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I know this is a hypothetical situation where truth does not make you happier, but I can't answer with those restrictions because I find it hard to believe that truth could not make you happier. I would want the truth. It may not seem immediately apparent, but "happy ignorance" harms you much more than "miserable truth". Truth harms you only as long as you deny it, refuse it, run away from it. Think of the addict who steadily feeds himself those pills. It feels amazing, but each dose destroys his body, and takes with it a piece of himself that he will later have to fight with all of his strength to gain back. Even then, he will have wasted years in his happy cloud of ignorance and denial, and will wake up one day to find that even though he has finally freed himself of it, there are pieces of himself that he will not ever be able to reclaim. And he will wake up one day, because an illusion can only last so long.

A less extreme example would be modern political deception, especially in America right now. Look how much "happy ignorance" has harmed us so far... The worst thing you can ever lose is your mind, and the ability to think for yourself. Thinking for yourself would prevent you from accepting everything at face value -- there would be no "I don't know, so I don't care". And it is not thinking for yourself in the first place that can lead you to blindly accept and cling onto an illusion. In these cases, the truth will cause so much misery because like the addict, they've already spent so long lulling themselves into false comfort and shielding themselves from anything that doesn't reinforce it. When a pinch of truth finally gets in, it is unbearable because they have never dealt with it before and don't know how to then. The higher you float, the harder your crash.

Even then, suffering is a necessary evil. Great change always follows great pain. Suffering leads to the quest for truth, and once you have embraced and realized the truth, you can finally do something about it. If everyone were happy with everything all the time, what in the world would ever get done? In my experience, it wasn't the realization of "the truth" that caused my misery; it was the realization that no one else seemed to realize the same thing.
 

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Like the first poster I'm curious. I'd not be able to live in ignorance, even if it makes me bliss. I will have to choose the Miserable Truth.
 
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I don't know if I could recognize bliss without the knowledge and experience of sorrow. (Kahlil Gibran) I like the truth yet it is not always what I think it is. A person who cheats and a person who cheats and lies about it have their own problems and their own reasons for doing so. I want as much of the truth as I can tolerate because without it, I have nothing. Can we really be blissful here anyway? Even if you don't watch the news it may be on while you are in an office waiting on an appointment or someone tells about some awful news of something incomprehensible going on in the world.

I don't know where I am going with this, I always thought I just wanted the truth - straight up and to the point.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think the only way people can actually be happy is by living in ignorance. The example of the addict, at least when he's high he may be happy. the only reason it's considered taboo is because it generally effects the lives of other people. But if this were not so it would not be considered such a bad thing. For those that can live as an addict and still be successful I say that is fine. Who cares if your life is shorter if your happy? I would rather spend one year happy than a lifetime of misery.

We all lie to ourselves almost every day, we may not realize it but we do. The world is built on lies.
 

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We all lie to ourselves almost every day, we may not realize it but we do. The world is built on lies.
Then why not work to break those lies down?

'What good is the truth if it doesn't make us happy?'

maybe the 'truth' only encourages suffering or unhappiness because we fight it when we finally know it; we do not accept it. And that in turn creates a cognitive dissonance that can cause a lot of inner turmoil.

I would rather the miserable truth. As bitter a pill it is to swallow.

I am constantly confronting questions of existence, and it is not getting any easier to contemplate for me. It wont get any easier until I accept the possibilities of what I have for long fought, in order to maintain my happiness, at the expense of 'the truth'.

What is the good of happiness if it is not true?
 

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I think the only way people can actually be happy is by living in ignorance. The example of the addict, at least when he's high he may be happy.
He is not genuinely "happy" -- he is enslaved. And sooner or later he begins to hate it. The only thing keeping him from stopping at that point is the painful physical effect of withdrawal. One of the only things causing him to relapse after he quits is the inability to accept the truth because he spent so many years setting himself up for failure by persistently ignoring it. That's why it's not in the best of interest to start that cycle in the first place.

the only reason it's considered taboo is because it generally effects the lives of other people. But if this were not so it would not be considered such a bad thing.
IMO, it's "taboo" because it destroys the user. You're absolutely correct in that it's not my place at all to tell someone how to live their life, or interfere with someone who is willingly killing themselves. But we're not talking marijuana or a few beers here. Hardcore street drugs like meth, heroin, and crack do not do anything useful to aid the user's "happiness". They destroy and kill them. It does affect the lives of those close to them emotionally, but it undeniably has the worst physical, emotional, and psychological effects on the user himself.

Along with that, I have yet to see a desperate drug addict keep entirely to themselves. Have you? Once their supply dries up, they go nuts. Imagine if the general consensus were that being hooked on drugs is A-OK! Imagine the effect when the demand finally overwhelms the supply. Complete anarchy, because these people will finally have to wake up and deal with the truth. Why call it true happiness if it depends on a system that fragile.

For those that can live as an addict and still be successful I say that is fine. Who cares if your life is shorter if your happy? I would rather spend one year happy than a lifetime of misery.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but do you genuinely believe someone who is strung out on crack can still be "successful"?

The problem with rather spending one year happy than a lifetime of misery is the irony. If you want it so bad, be it. You don't need drugs or lies. Everything starts with perception and mental attitude. Healthiness is being open and honest with yourself. If you're genuinely fed up with being miserable, find the real problem and deal with it. That requires truth.

We all lie to ourselves almost every day, we may not realize it but we do. The world is built on lies.
Probably why the world is as screwed as it is now, and why hundreds of millions are so absolutely unhealthy and miserable.
 

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I don't believe in lies. When a lie is being told, the truth will come around eventually. I'd rather have that happen early as it would avoid a lot more pain. I'd rather live a life of truth.
 

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We all lie to ourselves almost every day, we may not realize it but we do. The world is built on lies.
But that doesn't mean there's no truth within the world.
And that doesn't mean you should not know--aware of the truth.

Now I might sound pretty bullshit here; but there's difference between happiness in ignorance and happiness in helplessness. Helplessness is knowing you can't do anything about it. Ignorance is consciously choosing not to believe this pain you feel.

And considering the definition, the boundaries of lies and truth; how far would something be classified as a truth or lie? How would it be presented? There's a lot of difference between a nicely presented truth, or a "shaddup just live" kind of lie.
To assume ALL truth hurts, or all lies and/or ignorance lead to happiness would be a form of naivety; just the exact opposite of "everything will be all right!"
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but do you genuinely believe someone who is strung out on crack can still be "successful"?
I've known heroin addicts that were more successful than the average person. Judges and politicians have been linked to cocaine use. So yes, I believe if the person is capable they can be just as, or even more successful regardless of the drug, the only true consequence is their relationship with others. I speak from personal experience here so believe me when I say I know much more about this than you think you do.

The problem with rather spending one year happy than a lifetime of misery is the irony. If you want it so bad, be it. You don't need drugs or lies. Everything starts with perception and mental attitude. Healthiness is being open and honest with yourself. If you're genuinely fed up with being miserable, find the real problem and deal with it. That requires truth.
You really think it's that easy to change someones perceptions? I see things in a different way than most the people around me. If I could live in blissful ignorance I would but I can't. What may be true for you does not translate to truth for everyone. Wishful thinking is much more harmful because it usually leads to a lack of action. You keep bypassing the point in this thread by saying truth will make you happier. When does the truth make people happy? I can list multiple examples of when lies are more appropriate than truth. Little white lies are no different. And yes lies can be harmful, but so can the truth.
 

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so it's better if I am miserable as long as i know the truth? I don't see how that makes it any better.
No...I just don't see how deceiving yourself would be any better. That just seems like...you're hurting yourself. Which to me is worse.
 

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Living a lie is living in a box. I'd rather have the freedom of the truth than the bliss of ignorance.

Plus, there is no reason why you need to be miserable living in the truth. You may have that initial uncomfortable moment when the realization of reality hits you, but what you do with that realization will determine your outcome. You can let it keep you down, or you can rise above it. Not everything that hurts is bad for you.
 

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miserable truth.... who say's it'll stay that way?
 

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I know there are situations where the truth makes you happier, this is a hypothetical one where it does not.
What a strange hypothetical. I find it difficult to imagine situations where a lie would make me happier then the truth.
 
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