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What was your experience like? I would guess you two hit it off really well, and your observant trait complimented his lack thereof, and vice-versa for his intuitive trait. They do say though that S or N are the biggest differences you can get between any pair of letters.
 

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What was your experience like? I would guess you two hit it off really well, and your observant trait complimented his lack thereof, and vice-versa for his intuitive trait. They do say though that S or N are the biggest differences you can get between any pair of letters.

I agree with you on the S/N split. Very different thought processes, but usually the same result at the end. In the end though, it wasn't enough, and I was ditched in favor of another INTJ (I say "ditched", but the reality is that it never quite made it off the ground)
 

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Only popping in with the opposite experience since this only has one response. My dad is an ISTJ and I couldn't see myself with someone like him. We tend to agree on many endpoints, but getting there is where the argument starts and end.
 

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I agree with you on the S/N split. Very different thought processes, but usually the same result at the end. In the end though, it wasn't enough, and I was ditched in favor of another INTJ (I say "ditched", but the reality is that it never quite made it off the ground)
Although not an ISTJ myself, I've been through a similar situation.
 

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I'm not a man but I couldn't imagine myself with a sensor, I'd feel very alone because of lack of connection. Not to mention that most of the time they have the exact opposite view on life than I do.
 

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I'm not a man but I couldn't imagine myself with a sensor, I'd feel very alone because of lack of connection. Not to mention that most of the time they have the exact opposite view on life than I do.
This sentiment exactly. We may "connect" on very superficial things. On a deeper level we just don't understand each other.
 

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I'm not a man but I couldn't imagine myself with a sensor, I'd feel very alone because of lack of connection. Not to mention that most of the time they have the exact opposite view on life than I do.
Specifically, how?

I hear a lot of the 'lack of connections' complaints from intuitives online. Honestly, I think you guys take it too far (exaggerate it more than it is) because there are other connection points besides the N/S divide. You can connect through Te and other functions.

My question, is how specifically do they have the opposite view on life than you do?

I find that there is no correlation at all with type and goals in life. The only correlation there may be is how certain types go about it to achieving certain goals.
 

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I find that there is no correlation at all with type and goals in life. The only correlation there may be is how certain types go about it to achieving certain goals.
In my experience, ISTJs and INTJs usually have the same end goal in mind, but the rub is that we go about achieving it in different ways and that's vexing as hell, at least to this ISTJ, i.e., things should be done in order (A, B, C, D ... not L, X, D, R)
 

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Specifically, how?

I hear a lot of the 'lack of connections' complaints from intuitives online. Honestly, I think you guys take it too far (exaggerate it more than it is) because there are other connection points besides the N/S divide. You can connect through Te and other functions.
How? There is absolutely no satisfaction for me. Sure, I can connect via Te, for example but I'll be most likely detached. I'll see it as superficial (not in a negative way, but I need more than that). I can enjoy it at work, not in a romantic relationship. I want a deep connection more than anything(I'm sx/sp), I want to relate to someone. Otherwise, sorry, but it's BORING and kind of pointless.
We live in different worlds (you'll probably say I'm exaggerating....), it makes me lonely as hell when I'm around sensors.

Not to mention, they often (just like you did now) devaluate our intuitive nature, our needs, and our dominant function is Ni- "You take it too far, it's not how the world works, you always think about useless things, you should be more realistic, grow up".

Maybe it's easier for other intuitive types, especially those who are extroverted?

My question, is how specifically do they have the opposite view on life than you do?

I find that there is no correlation at all with type and goals in life. The only correlation there may be is how certain types go about it to achieving certain goals.
Maybe it's "how" not "what"... the process will be more important (since you spend more time on that), not the goal itself. We might want the same goal but what we mean by it and how we want to get there is usually another story.

I said it based on my experience. I'm yet to meet an ISTJ who wasn't a traditionalist, didn't love rules, or wasn't career/status/(having)family oriented.
I couldn't care less.

It's Si vs Ni, I guess. Past vs future, big picture vs detail oriented thinking - I don't see them as complementary, they tend to rub each other up the wrong way. And Te is not going to compromise ;)

@Dare, dear lioness, I wonder, what do you think about romantic relationship with SJs?
Let's say they magically checked all of the boxes(they're interconnected with being intuitive, aren't they?) but there would not be "intuitive connection"...
Could you connect via their other qualities and be satisfied with it?
 

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@ukulele
First of all, I'm going to clarify my opinion, since I think you misinterpreted my post. I am not dismissing the idea that intuitives have certain needs. Some intuitives can be content in a relationship with a sensor and get their needs met simply through the internet, friends, or other outlets. Believe it or not, there are actually intuitives that are in satisfying relationships with sensors, claimed by the intuitives themselves. Dig deeper into PerC and you'll find them, if you haven't yet. For other intuitives, if they're in a relationship, it must be with another intuitive. OKAY, I get that you are the second option. And I have nothing against that (and others who believe the same), because I'm so sick of seeing people in unhappy relationships. If you know what works and doesn't work for you, stick with that. You have your preferences, and I have mine.

As for the "exaggeration", let me explain how I see a lot of intuitive users here "take it too far". I see a lot of general and common ideas recycled around, and for some part I can see them to be true. But I do not see many real life experiences shared. It's just like your post above (most of them shorter), even though you said it's based on your experience. I hate to invalidate people's posts, but it feels fake because it's not contributing or adding insight to discussions. It's just repeats and trolls with nothing new. I see a lot of users trying to type their people that they had negative experiences as sensors when they barely know them. And here's another that I see a lot around here. When a sensor does something bad, their type goes up in flame and people like to join in the bash festival. But when an intuitive does something bad (even the same thing as the sensor), none of that happens. Many times, their type isn't even mentioned. I've had to do a lot of digging to find that out. It seems that many online intuitives would rather focus on the weak points of sensors instead of focusing on themselves toward self-improvement.

I said it based on my experience. I'm yet to meet an ISTJ who wasn't a traditionalist, didn't love rules, or wasn't career/status/(having)family oriented.
I couldn't care less.
Besides this quote right here, most of your post is flabber because you didn't really answer my question, at least to my expectation. I guess I shouldn't have such high expectations of posts from intuitives because like I said, most of their posts about sensors are just recycles and repeats. It's too bad you don't know enough ISTJs to know that not all of them are 'traditionalists' and don't care about raising a family.
 

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I guess I'll just throw my own real-life experience in this foray. I just spent the last 6 weeks attempting to get to know an INTJ on a romantic level. This is what I've realized:

- We don't understand each other's thinking.
- We don't find each other funny.
- We don't find each other complementing each others strengths / weaknesses.
- We don't fulfill each others needs.
- We live on completely different worlds.

Although we may share some similar interests. Similar interests will not make a relationship work in the long run. Opposites attract but then opposites detract. Now yes, there's been some success between Sensors and Intuitive's in relationships. But then you have to look at their backgrounds. How much experience has the S had with other N's and vice-versa.
 

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Some intuitives can be content in a relationship with a sensor and get their needs met simply through the internet, friends, or other outlets. Believe it or not, there are actually intuitives that are in satisfying relationships with sensors, claimed by the intuitives themselves.
YEAH! I know that! Mind that in each post, I was talking from a perspective of an INTJ (we usually have less outlets to satisfy our needs, we don't connect with others easily, we are less likely to commit just for sake of being in a relationship, being single is easier, we are "all or nothing" kind of people, go here) and someone who has sx/sp instinct so craves a deep connection (which for me is not possible with a sensor (or even anyone who is not xNTJ)).
If I had to outlet it from others, then... why should I be in a relationship with this person in the first place? I don't have to validate myself, I'm better off alone too.

I do not doubt that sensors and intuitives can create good relationships. Especially extroverts who have no problem with connecting.
An example, the famous ENFP-INTJ pairing, it seems to not work at all when the female is an INTJ as we don't want to end up as their mommies but from what I've observed it works better with ISTJs females(as you like to tell people what to do? or whatever) when both are mature.

It's all generalisation, a theory, it'll always be! That's why you can't really talk in details because it won't be true for everyone. In reality, it all comes down to two individuals and what they seek in a relationship.
As for the "exaggeration", let me explain how I see a lot of intuitive users here "take it too far". I see a lot of general and common ideas recycled around, and for some part I can see them to be true. But I do not see many real life experiences shared. It's just like your post above (most of them shorter), even though you said it's based on your experience. I hate to invalidate people's posts, but it feels fake because it's not contributing or adding insight to discussions. It's just repeats and trolls with nothing new.
It's intuition.... I get as irritated when a sensor starts telling me a story and inserts trillion of irrelevant details, data, facts, names etc that I don't care about. I just need a "framework", I'm interested in the concept primary. You want " real life experiences shared" mainly or it's invalid.
But on this example you can see: There is a big difference in communication that can prevent from connecting as it will create misunderstandings or one party won't be satisfied with the way they have to express themselves which will create a frustration, loneliness . Or for example there are less topics to discuss- an intuitive person often wants to talk about abstract concepts but be bored with the "earthy" topics which sensors might prefer and the other way around(in my words- living in two different worlds).

I see a lot of users trying to type their people that they had negative experiences as sensors when they barely know them. And here's another that I see a lot around here. When a sensor does something bad, their type goes up in flame and people like to join in the bash festival. But when an intuitive does something bad (even the same thing as the sensor), none of that happens. Many times, their type isn't even mentioned. I've had to do a lot of digging to find that out. It seems that many online intuitives would rather focus on the weak points of sensors instead of focusing on themselves toward self-improvement.
Well, that's not me, and I agree that some people like to shift blame. You can notice it's the same when it comes to extroverts and introverts. Both like to see themselves as better and blame for all the evil in the world one another (confirmation bias? )
But maybe because there is a trend of immature intuitives bashing sensors you take it too personally when someone mentions incompatibility like me for example?
I could also talk in detail about my incompatibility with other intuitive types so...

Besides this quote right here, most of your post is flabber because you didn't really answer my question, at least to my expectation.
You see, it's my intuitive side. You want concrete facts (Si+Te?), I get it. I didn't give you enough of details because I was talking about sensors (did you ask only about ISTJs?) in general(besides what you quoted), each potential relationship will be very different. But what I've said applies to all of them (in MY case)

[Here you have one example, I know that my Te is not developed enough but my INTJ friend would have known exactly what I meant(we actually discussed it recently in another context) , he would not have seen it as "flabber", he would have just picked it up from there and the conversation would have flown effortlessly with a mutual understanding . I suspect we could have a conversation without talking to each other. Communication is easy, and very satisfying in a relationship like this.]

If you want to know why I would not connect with an ISTJ based on those I've known (of course not all are the same and all of it!)?
They love rules, things have to be done in a certain way, they like to impose those things on others (especially their kids?), they see world through their past experience, the "real world" experience, they hate changes and trying new things, they're inflexible and at the same time stubborn as hell, they love details, they're quick to judge, they love to micromanage their life and others, they're fine with (what I see as) mediocre life. All of those qualities may lead to stagnation, lack of improvement, settling, not seeing a big picture, not being interested in abstract thinking, close-mindness which is not what I would want as a future oriented and Ni-dominant person.
Of course, I'm mentioning only negative things but it doesn't mean I think badly about ISTJs, hide your teeth. :proud:

It's too bad you don't know enough ISTJs to know that not all of them are 'traditionalists' and don't care about raising a family.
There is "or" in there. Regardless of what they care about, all of them are Si-dominant. I'm not a fan of Si.
 

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An example, the famous ENFP-INTJ pairing, it seems to not work at all when the female is an INTJ as we don't want to end up as their mommies but from what I've observed it works better with ISTJs females(as you like to tell people what to do? or whatever) when both are mature.
I'm actually a fan of the ENFP-INTJ pairing. But I disagree that ISTJ females would work better with ENFPs than INTJs. I can admire and appreciate their qualities from afar, but they are too much for me to handle in a relationship. With ISTJ males though, it'd be a different story.

Especially extroverts who have no problem with connecting.
It seems that you are implying that extroverts have no problem with connecting to others. If so, I disagree. I have known a number of extroverts to be uncomfortable and disliking situations in which they were placed with introverts. They did not enjoy or feel connected to the introverts due to their calmness and low-key nature.

It's intuition.... I get as irritated when a sensor starts telling me a story and inserts trillion of irrelevant details, data, facts, names etc that I don't care about. I just need a "framework", I'm interested in the concept primary. You want " real life experiences shared" mainly or it's invalid.
But on this example you can see: There is a big difference in communication that can prevent from connecting as it will create misunderstandings or one party won't be satisfied with the way they have to express themselves which will create a frustration, loneliness . Or for example there are less topics to discuss- an intuitive person often wants to talk about abstract concepts but be bored with the "earthy" topics which sensors might prefer and the other way around(in my words- living in two different worlds).
I don't think the problem is intuition. I don't expect posts that include all of the details (many that are unnecessary), but I want just enough context and ideas that produce insights. I guess what I'm saying is, when there is too many repeats of the same phrases, it feels fake. I have seen some great insightful posts from intuitives here (though not enough), and I would like to see more of that. I don't take it personally when others mention incompatibility but it pisses me off when there is no objectivity for their reasoning.
 

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I'm actually a fan of the ENFP-INTJ pairing.
And I am not :proud:

It seems that you are implying that extroverts have no problem with connecting to others. If so, I disagree. I have known a number of extroverts to be uncomfortable and disliking situations in which they were placed with introverts. They did not enjoy or feel connected to the introverts due to their calmness and low-key nature.
No. I didn't mean that "all" extroverts have no problem with connecting to others (please, mind that english is not my native language), I'm not that foolish to put everyone in the same pot (which I said anyway). And NO ONE will ever connect to each and every person they've met.
It's all generalisation, a theory, it'll always be! That's why you can't really talk in details because it won't be true for everyone. In reality, it all comes down to two individuals and what they seek in a relationship.
I don't think the problem is intuition. I don't expect posts that include all of the details (many that are unnecessary), but I want just enough context and ideas that produce insights. I guess what I'm saying is, when there is too many repeats of the same phrases, it feels fake. I have seen some great insightful posts from intuitives here (though not enough), and I would like to see more of that. I don't take it personally when others mention incompatibility but it pisses me off when there is no objectivity for their reasoning.
That's maybe because they're better at "filtering" and expressing their thoughts? Better developed Te for example(in case of INTJs). I do admit that I can be seen as vague but there is no fakeness to it. I'm not talking like this because I want to be a cool mysterious hipster or I don't know what I'm talking about, it's the way I think, intuitively.

And how can you demand objectivity when talking about someone's incompatibility? It's all subjective, is it not? They all talk about their subjective experience, even if they'll provide you their reasoning behind it, it still will be subjective.
 

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I'm a huge fan of ISTJs, but haven't had much success with ISTJ women. I know one who idolizes me and I tried to hit it off romantically with her, but she wasn't interested in that way. I suspect that the factor that is behind that admiration is also the same reason why our types are not good matches; the way we perceive is sufficiently different that the other person's cognition is both intriguing and practically useful, but it also acts a block to actual understanding and deeper connection.

More to the point, I know that it is somewhat unreasonable to think this way. Dominant Si is an incredibly useful ability, but I remember what dominant Ni does for me and how I couldn't function the way I do without it. Both in one person supported by Te would be god-tier, but it doesn't work that way. Each in two people doesn't seem to work very well.
 
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