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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey everyone,

I recently read a few things about ENTPs that threw me for a loop. The biggest one is that ENTPs are merciless debaters. In the past, I've had quite a few friends accuse me of "being great at arguing, but always arguing without a point." I wasn't sure what they meant about the "without a point" part, because I consider having fun just as valid a point as any, but they were certainly right - I've always been GREAT at arguing. And from what I've read about INFJs, most INFJs can't stand that sort of conflict. There are times in which I can't stand that sort of conflict, but those times are few and far between. In all honesty, I just LOVE playing devil's advocate.

Another thing is dwelling on the past when stressed. My memory is pretty hit-or-miss. It seems like I have either a great memory or a bad memory, depending on the situation, and never in-between. I know that INFJs lack Si, and yet at the same time they have trouble being in the moment. I have always had trouble living in the moment, but after reflection I think that has a lot to do with embarrassing or humiliating moments from the past that I just cannot seem to let go. My mind always goes back to those moments. I also know that ENTPs have inferior Si as opposed to inferior Se of INFJs, so I'm going to have to do some more exploring as far as that's concerned.

At the same time, I'm sure that I prefer to use Ni over Ne. I CAN come up with a thousand possibilities, but when it comes down to it, I'll take the one RIGHT answer over a thousand possibilities every single time. I've had more of those Ni-characteristic "eureka" moments over the years than I could possibly count. And every time it's mind-blowing. At the moment, I'm writing a philosophical work - Perhaps "pamphlet" is the right term - in the same vein as Plato's The Republic. The inspiration came to me in the form of one of those "eureka" moments. I think.

I know for a FACT that I am an Fe - Ti user. Whichever one is auxiliary or tertiary I haven't given too much thought to. I always thought that I've been an INFJ with an Ni-Ti loop bent, but who knows? Perhaps I'm wrong.

Anyone have experience with this particular line of thinking? I'd love to find some clarity here, as I feel it would help me to become truly healthy as an individual. Am I an ENTP with special Ni powers, or am I some kind of arrogant, argumentative INFJ?

Thanks,

Craig

P.S. - Be as harsh and direct as you want in your responses - I'm kind of freaking out and would appreciate the closure.
 

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Hey everyone,

I recently read a few things about ENTPs that threw me for a loop. The biggest one is that ENTPs are merciless debaters. In the past, I've had quite a few friends accuse me of "being great at arguing, but always arguing without a point." I wasn't sure what they meant about the "without a point" part, because I consider having fun just as valid a point as any, but they were certainly right - I've always been GREAT at arguing. And from what I've read about INFJs, most INFJs can't stand that sort of conflict. There are times in which I can't stand that sort of conflict, but those times are few and far between. In all honesty, I just LOVE playing devil's advocate. [...]
Not addressing your main point, which I leave to others; but here are just two notes in passing:

--I've grown less charmed with it as time has gone on, but I can be much the same as the above ("merciless debaters"), and I'm pretty profoundly INFJ. If discussions can be kept on an intellectual basis by all parties, great; but few can argue long without becoming heated by their emotions, leaving a bitter takeaway from the discussion. When it goes that route, it becomes a conflict--a squabble--rather than a shared investigation, and that's when I manifest my conflict-averseness and skedaddle. YMMV.

--The "without a point" thing means that you're perceived as just being disputatious ("I just LOVE playing devil's advocate") rather than really being invested in one standpoint. This is construed by some/many as a sign of personal insincerity, which rubs them the wrong way; plus, unless they entered the discussion with the same attitude, it makes them feel used and dissed, as if they were regarded as being just your playthings. And folks don't like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
--The "without a point" thing means that you're perceived as just being disputatious ("I just LOVE playing devil's advocate") rather than really being invested in one standpoint. This is construed by some/many as a sign of personal insincerity, which rubs them the wrong way; plus, unless they entered the discussion with the same attitude, it makes them feel used and dissed, as if they were regarded as being just your playthings. And folks don't like that.
Yeah, you're right - I was just making fun of them for their inability to think outside the box and to see beyond the conversation itself.

The truth is I'm a natural troll. I get an intense, bizarrely sadistic kick out of it. Usually it doesn't matter much to me, as long as they eventually get over it. It drives me crazy when they DON'T get over it, though.

I'm sure that makes me sound like a complete asshole. And I can understand it entirely if that's the impression you get. But it really is all in good fun.

Also, thank you! I wish I could say your first point makes this question any easier for me to answer, but then again, it's about the journey, right?
 

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[...]

The truth is I'm a natural troll. I get an intense, bizarrely sadistic kick out of it. Usually it doesn't matter much to me, as long as they eventually get over it. It drives me crazy when they DON'T get over it, though.

I'm sure that makes me sound like a complete asshole. And I can understand it entirely if that's the impression you get. But it really is all in good fun.
Truly, I understand completely. I think all INFJs understand this: We spend all our time debating points internally with ourselves, right and left, up and down. We self-troll, and see the hilarity in it (at least, I do). But my Fe has, with time, gained ground on whatever's prompting that trolling vis-a-vis others (I'm still a pretty vicious troll to myself), and I feel their frustrations, anger, and pain too much to be comfortable with it for long.

Also, thank you! I wish I could say your first point makes this question any easier for me to answer, but then again, it's about the journey, right?
Yes, it's about the journey: Destinations are only excuses to explore!
 

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You might want to take the actual test--- maybe you have? That goes for anyone who is wondering what their type is. I think it is kind of damaging to be mis-typed and hearing the wrong information for you. It's like being a round peg stuck in a square hole. You want to let your own strengths take flight.
 
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Hmm.. have you posted this question in the ENTP forum too? I'm sure they can sniff out an ENTP in INFJ clothing, if that's what you are. I guess they are known as the introverts of the extroverts, in the way that we are sometimes called the converse, so getting mixed up isn't too 'out there'.

I must admit, I can argue to my death, but only if I have a point. Arguing for the purpose of fun is not my cup of tea at all, and frankly I find irritating in others. I disengage abruptly from arguments when I realise the other party is just playing with me in any way.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You might want to take the actual test--- maybe you have? That goes for anyone who is wondering what their type is. I think it is kind of damaging to be mis-typed and hearing the wrong information for you. It's like being a round peg stuck in a square hole. You want to let your own strengths take flight.
I have, but I've never taken a good one. The questions asked and answers available to choose from have always way too generalized to answer honestly in a way that isn't directly influenced by your own feelings in the moment. For example:

Q: "I avoid conflict."

A: 1) Strongly agree 2) Agree 3) Neutral 4) Disagree 5) Strongly disagree

It drives me crazy that there isn't any context included. And it drives me even more crazy that the people who devised this test are willing to give convergent, specific results based on such meaningless, amorphous questions.

Do you know of a truly good MBTI test? If you do, I'd love to take it.

By the way, the bad tests I've taken have always given me the results of INFP, INFJ or ENFJ.

And, just to clarify further, my own status as an INFJ came from my research and understanding of the cognitive functions, which in my view provide a much more solid foundation for discovering the truth about oneself.
 

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Truly, I understand completely. I think all INFJs understand this: We spend all our time debating points internally with ourselves, right and left, up and down. We self-troll, and see the hilarity in it (at least, I do). But my Fe has, with time, gained ground on whatever's prompting that trolling vis-a-vis others (I'm still a pretty vicious troll to myself), and I feel their frustrations, anger, and pain too much to be comfortable with it for long.
Thanks for that! I still have my doubts, but at the very least you've made me feel a little more understood, which I'm always grateful for. You nailed the hilarity bit, by the way - I too find that VERY funny!
 

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Do you know of a truly good MBTI test? If you do, I'd love to take it.

By the way, the bad tests I've taken have always given me the results of INFP, INFJ or ENFJ.
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/home.htm?bhcp=1

The true MBTI is not free--- but for anybody that has used it, I think you'd say it's superior. I feel very solid on my type and with an understanding of what % I had worked on the areas that are not part of my ENFP profile. For instance, my Se was fairly well developed. It still means I'm an ENFP, but the other percentiles are nice to know and make more sense the more you learn from the test, imo. They also do true research and the people administering the tests have to be social workers or psychologists... so... I'd check the actual MBTI test. I took it through a class, so I'm not sure about what the cost is ><.
Anybody else think this who have taken the MBTI?
You could also head over to ENTP-forum and take a sniff... But there's so much more to a type than just any one aspect.
There are certain traits that don't shine in any other type--- but you have to look at the whole.

Also reading about the types that you wonder about on http://www.personalitypage.com/html/portraits.html
Read the whole thing and if it doesn't feel like the whole thing is applicable-- then it ain't you. =)
 
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Well, sometimes we act like the opposite type when stressed out or driven to our worst. INFJs can have strong opinions on things as well. How they go about expressing it can depend on the individual. I know ENTP is not the exact opposite of INFJ but other than intuition, the other preferences and overall functions are pretty much opposite. It's true that many INFJs don't always seek out conflict but to fit into a type, you don't have to match all of the qualities.I can't say for sure your actual type but I would say to keep in mind how you act on your best day.

It could be somewhere between INFJ and ENTP i.e. INTP, ENFJ, something entirely different with some sort of middle ground or maybe you were an INFJ all along. It could take some research and self assesment to find an answer that satisfies you. If you feel you are actually an ENTP, maybe you can look more into the type. It can throw one's world and identity off balance when you find out you relate a lot to a type you thought you were not.
 

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If you think you can accurately type me, be my guest. :)
>< Okay. >< I knew I shouldn't have written that. I changed it.... Anyway, only for you, then. PM me with some ideas that got you excited lately, what your room looks like, what you talk about and do with your friends. Also read both INFJ and ENTP types through and figure out which one feels more right. Also read ENFP in case you are a feeler.
 
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>< Okay. >< I knew I shouldn't have written that. I changed it.... Anyway, only for you, then. PM me with some ideas that got you excited lately, what your room looks like, what you talk about and do with your friends. Also read both INFJ and ENTP types through and figure out which one feels more right. Also read ENFP in case you are a feeler.
PM sent, and by the way, after reading the entry on ENFPs I know am DEFINITELY not an ENFP.
 
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