[Json221]

Hey everyone, I am pleased to have the opportunity to be in this community. In reading through the threads here I am happy to find lots of like-minded individuals! I don't care what critics say about the MBTI, I think it's very accurate and useful.

On to my problem:

Foremost, I'd like to say that I am not having an issue simply making friends or being social. Furthermore, I am happy with my life and this isn't a deep problem I lose sleep over. However, it is a problem nonetheless, and anything I can do to improve my experience in life is important.

Essentially, in my whole (short 18 year) life, I have yet to find someone who deeply and truly understands me. By "understands", I don't mean sympathize, I mean empathize from personal experience. I believe my goals, desires, frustrations, and thoughts are uncommon with people in my age group, and for this reason, I'm an outsider whenever I don't apply a "social filter" to myself. Sometimes I feel alone and misunderstood in the world, and this belief is validated very often.

I've reflected on this quite a bit, and I feel I would be satisfied if I could simply find someone who is similar to me in my values, beliefs, and thoughts on a deep level. True empathy. When I read about the experiences of introverts or INTJs, even here, I feel a surprising amount of satisfaction - a lessening of loneliness. I have a yearning to experience this emotion more often and more strongly. The prospect of being able to sit down with someone much like myself and simply talk about our lives sounds incredibly appealing to me.

So, the solution? Well first, I think I'll try to get involved with more INTJ's, even here. But I'm looking for a more specific connection, because I am more than an INTJ, and thus can't relate to all things the stereotypical INTJ faces. So, I'm looking for advice as to how to find people like me with whom I can connect deeply. I've brainstormed up a few things myself, but all of them seem a little flawed.

I'll give a quick example: One thing I'm very interested in is personal development - I spend a lot of time trying to improve my life. I'd say the main goal in my life right now is simply "growth", the concept. So imagine I try to hang around people into personal development. However, I find that a lot of people into personal development are also into things such as "The Law of Attraction" (sketchy pseudoscience). Even if a growth-oriented person and I were to connect over personal development, in knowing that they believe in the Law of Attraction I would sense an instant disconnect with them and begin to feel lonely in my mind once more. You can imagine how frustrating this might be.

It has taken me quite a while to write this post; I've never voiced these feelings before. I apologize that it's not coherent and easy to read- I have a difficulty expressing myself when it comes to feelings and desires (perhaps a bit ironic).

Regardless, I pose the following questions: Has anyone found a successful way to find and connect with like-minded individuals without having to compromise/ignore significant parts of their own personality? What venues would you use (forums, clubs, IRC, etc)? And finally, does the feeling of loneliness in the world go away, or is it something all humans have to live with simply because we're all unique?

E: I go on to give more examples and elaborate in the first 5 paragraphs of my second post (read down a tiny bit). Can't post a hyperlink because I don't have 15 posts, sadly.

 

[Priva]

I really relate to your post. I often wish for a very "deep" connection with someone in which we enjoy the same topics and think in a similar manner. I don't think it's impossible to find connections like this-with all the people in the world, it seems it would be somewhat likely-but in wishing for a near "perfect" connection, I sometimes overlook the ones that I have.

For example, I have three regular discussion partners (two of which I also consider to be good friends). With one, I talk about books and politics. With another, I talk about religion and books. With the third, I discuss religion and politics (this is a generalization, of course. We also discuss other things). This way I am able to discuss most of what I want, and I receive the benefit (or annoyance?) of having several different perspectives. Unfortunately I do not think I've met an INTJ. I have met an ENTJ (though he may be an outgoing 'I') and although we have similar ways of thinking, we don't share many interests, so he is not the "holy grail" of social partners that I often fantasize of meeting.

Again, I won't say it's impossible to meet someone who shares your interests and thinks in a similar way, but I think it's much easier to seek out several different people to whom you go for different things. In a way, with each person, you will be ignoring a part of yourself, but you will be able (ideally) to express that 'ignored' part with someone else.

Sometimes I still get fleeting bouts of loneliness, and wish for someone with whom I could completely "connect," however I've yet to meet said person, so in the mean time, I attempt to focus on the positive rather than the negative (for example, "before I met these people I would not have had the chance to discuss religion" vs "I still have no one to talk to regarding personal growth"). This forum has also been great because it's full of, as you said, "like-minded individuals," and although we often differ, I find I relate to the people on this forum far more than I do with most.

So my advice for you is to: stay positive, keep looking, keep an open mind, seek multiple people, and use internet forums when you can't find a "real-life" discussion partner.

 

[bluekitdon]

Regardless, I pose the following questions: Has anyone found a successful way to find and connect with like-minded individuals without having to compromise/ignore significant parts of their own personality? What venues would you use (forums, clubs, IRC, etc)? And finally, does the feeling of loneliness in the world go away, or is it something all humans have to live with simply because we're all unique?

I am still struggling with this in my mid 30's, interested to hear others feedback. I've mainly found online communities like this one where people really seem to understand me. It is gradually getting better though as I stay in one place and actively put myself out there to meet new people though various clubs & such.

One thing that I've found is that online chats, texting, etc most definitely does not replace face to face contact. In some ways I believe it actually makes it harder to form deep friendships. I've got a small men's group through church that meets every Wednesday morning, and am part of some small clubs, those are my main social times and I look forward to them. Right now between running my 5 kids everywhere, work, and fitness training I don't have much time for anything else, so it is very difficult to form and keep deep friendships.

 

[BrokenGenius]

Regardless, I pose the following questions: Has anyone found a successful way to find and connect with like-minded individuals without having to compromise/ignore significant parts of their own personality? What venues would you use (forums, clubs, IRC, etc)? And finally, does the feeling of loneliness in the world go away, or is it something all humans have to live with simply because we're all unique?

No. I'm in my thirties and despite attending multiple schools and universities, working
with public for many years and meeting thousands of people I have not yet been able
to find a single person with whom I could really connect. I did meet some people who
shared a similar background with me, mostly on forums such as here, but this will never
lead to a strong bond nor will it ever truly be satisfying.

The loneliness has never left me. But now I begin to enjoy it. I consider most of mankind
to be unworthy savage idiotic animals with no purpose but to annoy and destroy. The
cancer of the planet Earth. I have grown so tired of hearing the stupid banalities that
spill out of their mouths like a river of absurdities and preposterousness.

We are all unique for sure, but some are more unique than others by a long shot. Truth is
most people are sheep, just thinking and doing what the TV has told them. Taking great
pleasure in discussing the private lives of celebrities and whatnot. Complaining about
losing their jobs to China but always wanting to pay less for their materialist needs.

The best thing you can do is to connect with yourself. Discover yourself. Push your limits.
Do what you like to do. If you are ever to meet someone that could possibly be similar
to you enough to bond with, it's most probably the best way to do it. And just stop giving
a shit about anybody or anything else.

 

[Json221]

I've slept on this a bit and realized that this needs to be treated practically, more so than the tone in my original post indicated. I also realized that since I know no other INTJ but my Dad (who doesn't talk about emotions ever), it's very useful and interesting to get other's perspectives. Please reply if you have the time . Anyway, I'll offer some more examples about myself and perhaps a few experiences.

One thing that I have found to be unique about me is that when I deem someone worthy of my help, I am very enthusiastic and emotionally invested in their success. For example, if I see a friend showing dissatisfaction with their procrastination habits and they seem open to help, I have a strong (emotional) urge to help them and guide them through. I've had to repress this urge many times in my life because most people seem to get scared away when someone is so enthusiastic about helping them. This further convinces me of how different/alone I am, because I would love it if someone who had experience than me would be interested in helping/guiding/mentoring. In reflecting on this emotional urge, I realize it is not just a desire to be appreciated, but a desire to truly help others and "give back" - I live vicariously through their success.

Another example is my approach to life and my opinions about living life. This is a bit of a messy topic because I really don't "get" some people's approach to life. In fact, if I see someone approaching life in a nonsensical or improper way (e.g. procrastinating constantly, complaining about it, and not looking for a solution), I have deep feelings of disgust about them and their actions. Basically, if I were to summarize my approach to life, I'd say it is rooted in logic, understanding, and (spiritual/personal) consciousness. To simplify things, this basically means that approaching life is very simple and straightforward to me on a whole, though the individual endeavors may be difficult. If one is able to identify their values properly and act according to their values, does life not play itself out? For example, if I value becoming an attractive mate and feeling confident socially (all people do, but to different degrees), I'll spend time/energy/money in developing a personal style (clothes, hair, etc.) that accomplishes these ends. And I have done so.

The part where I feel a disconnect is when people live their lives so blatently illogically. Logical living doesn't mean you lack emotion or are a robot, it just means you attempt to gain a decent perspective of yourself and the world before you make your decisions (this isn't the best way to explain it, I admit). So when I see people repeatedly fail at things without any sort of effort to improve, I feel like they aren't even human (or perhaps I'm not).

A final example: One thing I value greatly is honesty and openness. If someone came to me and started talking about some random subject, and I knew they weren't trying to mess with me or anything, I'd hear what they have to say. Of course, if I couldn't answer or if it was a waste of time, I'd tell them and be on with my way, but I'd hear and understand them. If they asked an honest question, I'd give them a full honest answer. I really don't get social norms sometimes (smalltalk SUCKS) because I really dislike tip-toeing around issues or lying about this, but I find myself having to do so. I feel this is a more common belief with INTJs, but regardless it is something I find not many people feel other than myself - or if they feel it, they ignore it and just act like they are supposed to.


Hopefully this new content can spur some more interesting conversations. Now on to responses.



===
Priva - I get what you're saying and I have similar friends with whom I can talk about general things. I can talk about how teachers giving this homework or something is dumb and the school system should be like this, or this book is interesting because ___, or political topic is _______. I agree that these are important relationships to develop and they lead to some satisfaction in life. I still believe that a "perfect" relationship would be incredible, though. If I were to meet myself - perhaps a 10-year-older version of myself with slightly different opinions but the same core values - I would have an excellent time I imagine.

I think your approach of positive vs. negative is healthy and I've tried to adopt it as well. I should emphasize once more that this is not a major problem I face - it's just the "fleeting bouts of loneliness" that I want to stop from occurring (these might happen like once or twice a month). I myself, as with many INTJs I imagine, have to go against the grain and ignore other's opinions and standards. I've been doing do significantly for about 2 years now. Of course as an INTJ I'm fine with this, but it'd still be nice to have some affirmation from another human every once in a while for my goals and desires.
===

I am still struggling with this in my mid 30's, interested to hear others feedback. I've mainly found online communities like this one where people really seem to understand me. It is gradually getting better though as I stay in one place and actively put myself out there to meet new people though various clubs & such.

One thing that I've found is that online chats, texting, etc most definitely does not replace face to face contact. In some ways I believe it actually makes it harder to form deep friendships. I've got a small men's group through church that meets every Wednesday morning, and am part of some small clubs, those are my main social times and I look forward to them. Right now between running my 5 kids everywhere, work, and fitness training I don't have much time for anything else, so it is very difficult to form and keep deep friendships.

===
bluekitdon- I've experimented with this quite a bit (online vs. real life) and agree that real life interaction is almost always better (more on this in a second). In fact, I only text people and talk on facebook when it is necessary. I used to debate online before but I realize it's pointless unless it help me test my opinions.

However, I still find hanging with somewhat similar friends and acquaintances in real life to be not very fulfilling either. After an hours or two I end up feeling like I'm wasting time, unless they are really good friends. Alternatively, finding similar people online that you can be friends with has proven to be fulfilling for me, at least in small bursts. A few examples: 1) I speak with 2 French natives about cultural things and their life, both on skype and email, and I value these relationships very much. I look forward to these interactions, probably more than a hang-out with a decent friend. 2) In being on a forum like this, I decide to forgo potentially hanging out with another friend. I am comfortable with this decision and I make it consciously because I like the feelings of connection, compassion, and understanding. 3) I'm a big hockey fan and found a friend playing NHL 09 on the xbox 360. Him and I played many games and teamed up very often, and even though we're different, he's very funny and open and offers me a relaxing time. 4) I am a fan of some youtube channels that have commentators talking about games or doing run-throughs of games. In watching these, I feel as if I'm playing the game with them and I enjoy it vicariously.

To conclude, online things do NOT replace real life things at all. But they can serve a purpose. I came here to explore an additional purpose they can serve. I imagine if I were to be able to start a chat with someone like myself, I would feel very happy and fulfilled. The problem is finding them (... any advice? )
===

No. I'm in my thirties and despite attending multiple schools and universities, working
with public for many years and meeting thousands of people I have not yet been able
to find a single person with whom I could really connect. I did meet some people who
shared a similar background with me, mostly on forums such as here, but this will never
lead to a strong bond nor will it ever truly be satisfying.

The loneliness has never left me. But now I begin to enjoy it. I consider most of mankind
to be unworthy savage idiotic animals with no purpose but to annoy and destroy. The
cancer of the planet Earth. I have grown so tired of hearing the stupid banalities that
spill out of their mouths like a river of absurdities and preposterousness.

We are all unique for sure, but some are more unique than others by a long shot. Truth is
most people are sheep, just thinking and doing what the TV has told them. Taking great
pleasure in discussing the private lives of celebrities and whatnot. Complaining about
losing their jobs to China but always wanting to pay less for their materialist needs.

The best thing you can do is to connect with yourself. Discover yourself. Push your limits.
Do what you like to do. If you are ever to meet someone that could possibly be similar
to you enough to bond with, it's most probably the best way to do it. And just stop giving
a shit about anybody or anything else.

===

This response saddens me, though I don't deny it may be true. Indeed I do connect with myself quite often, I'm an introvert. However, as I have described above, I still have emotional yearnings to connect with others, and I feel deep connection with other humans is essential to existence and fulfillment (whereas small talk and shallow connections are not essential). In looking at people being heavily influenced by TV and other stupid stuff, I like to believe that if they snapped out of it they could develop as true, conscious individuals as well. At least some of them. Hopefully you have been unlucky in your life so far and there is still hope alive, albeit hard to find.
===

I use the words "fulfilled" and "satisfied" a lot when describing this feeling I'm trying to achieve. I believe they are the perfect words for this situation, because it's something I feel is necessary to my existence. I feel like "being understood" is somewhere on my "hierarchy of needs" (à la Maslow), though of course I've survived thus far without it.

 

[Aquamarine]

Well, you're not the only one who experienced this. I couldn't connect on the same wavelength with most people around me either, so I used to think that something is wrong with me, until I studied deeper into MBTI and realise that the people around me are SJs and SPs, while I'm an INTJ, so it will be difficult (but not impossible) to form deep social connections with them. However, I formed a few close connection with like-minded individuals on the internet from all over the world. INTJs consist about 1-2% of the world population (estimate), so we're most likely to be dispersed all over the world.

I would suggest that you seek to connect with someone who has the same priorities in life as you, and you'll most likely be able to find them from people who are of a similar type, or have the same dominant function as you do. I still experience this feelings on loneliness, but these days it's fleeting, because I'm aware that there are people around who are concerned about me; I understand it's just that they're busy with other commitments in their lives at the moment.

Lastly, no man is an island, so even introverts will need to connect and form relationships with others.

 

[bluekitdon]

@Json221 you remind me very much of a younger me. Online does serve a purpose, especially when hectic schedules don't allow for in person visits. Always happy to chat if you want, I don't generally do too much of the how's it going type of thing but always happy to give advice if it is something I feel I can help with.

 

[Neatolzy]

It's been said previously but I think a thing that might be worth while is to take some interests and look into joining some clubs/organizations. This may be a little bit easier in college where there are more of such opportunities, but if you say like hockey or video games, you can likely join clubs for those at a university. This will be helpful since most of the people there should be present because they share those interests and you can begin meeting people there by talking about those passions (feels much easier than initiating small talk with a random person). From there you can learn more about their other interests and potentially meet people with those things as well and sort-of expand your base from there. To do that though just be the introvert you are and give some serious thought as to what you really enjoy doing to start looking at clubs.

That last point is important because I think many people undervalue the whole notion of being true to yourself as far as making friends. I'm not saying be a stereotypical INTJ with no holds barred, but don't engage in typical social events that you dislike just to meet people because it's being fake and even if you cover that well you may not share as many common interests with people at such places. For instance I don't go to clubs or bars to meet them because I don't enjoy those environments (and believe me I've given them their fair shot) and I don't think I'm best served by spending a few miserable hours to possibly make some friends who could very well love going to bars/clubs and may want to drag me to them every other night (hyperbole but more than once a month would be iffy).

In summary, be who you are, not who you think most people want you to be. The ones who only like the person you aren't or who don't like the person you actually are are not worthy of being your friends, you're better off without them. Lastly that thing you stated about wanted to just help people is a good quality, if people are bothered by it, it's their loss not yours.

 

[badwolf]

I'm right there with you. All throughout high school, I never connected with anyone. I had friends, yes. But that deep understand that you've been talking about always eluded me. Heck, I didn't even think it was possible. I wasn't upset or anything, but I also knew that I probably wouldn't be talking to any of the people I had in high school. I thought I'd just live my life not understanding anyone and just doing what I wanted all the time.

Let me tell you a few facts about INTJs. It is uncommon for us to be religious. It is also much more likely for males to be INTJ than it is for females. So. When I got to college, imagine my surprise, incredulity, and awestruck wonderment when I met another INTJ who not only is majoring in the same subject as I am, but she is religious too!

Now, I realize that we are able to form meaningful and emotion connections with people of different types as us, but I personally have never been able to do so until now. I'm not much older than you (I'll be turning 20 here in a couple weeks), and I also felt these 'bouts of loneliness' before I met this girl. I imagined them going on for the rest of my life as well, unless of course I found another human to connect with like you're hunting for. All I can say do is back what BrokenGenius said and get to know yourself with certainty first. Stop caring what the outside world thinks and just do a little soul searching. I know how stupid that sounds, but I bet it will help. After that, I would just stay on the alert for anyone you think you can have such a connection with. Trust your Ni; it will tell you things you can't consciously figure out.

 

[Antipode]

I had one deep connection with someone in high school. I think it's hard for us dominate intuitive because we all view "deepness" in such harshly different ways. Thus, it is hard to find that person who compliments it; also, we don't know how to verbalize what it is that we feel is deep, so it's like a guessing matching game.

 

[Ruru]

Regardless, I pose the following questions: Has anyone found a successful way to find and connect with like-minded individuals without having to compromise/ignore significant parts of their own personality? What venues would you use (forums, clubs, IRC, etc)? And finally, does the feeling of loneliness in the world go away, or is it something all humans have to live with simply because we're all unique?

I can somehow relate to you, Though I'd say that I found a successful way. Also I tend to invest connection in real life rather than the web despite the fact that there are more individuals here that I can relate, not that I think of the web as a hopeless place to vent it is just that real life connection is more fun... I guess.

Its just a matter of patience and observing (to me at least) that's how I invest my connection. This might sound selfish but I don't compromise people thus, having a connection but not deep. And then those who straightly goes into your core because you guys know that you're just awesome.

About loneliness I think that it is constant no matter what you do, you have to live with it especially us. Probably because despite the connections that we INTJ's earned, in the end the only thing that satisfies us is a tranquil room where we could stay inside our heads without disturbance. So, once in a while loneliness will be there.

 

[BrokenGenius]

(...)I would love it if someone who had experience than me would be interested in helping/guiding/mentoring. In reflecting on this emotional urge, I realize it is not just a desire to be appreciated, but a desire to truly help others and "give back" - I live vicariously through their success. (...)

Here is some guiding right now. Take it or leave it. What you're saying here in that quote,
I have told myself the same thing on many occasions in the past. Back when I used to lie
to myself a lot. It's one thing to give to charity and such but putting others ahead of you
is a trap that will come back and kick you in the groin. You can't hide it from me because
I've been there, done that, suffered the consequences.

Of course it may do you some good right now but it will leave you empty and alone in the
end. Don't be fooled by whatever the size of the pink glasses remaining in front of your eyes.
If you give more than you receive, you're courting disaster. Believe me, it won't bring you
anything.

 

[lilysocks]

i'm a lot older than you, just for context - 48. but i definitely remember isolation, which was more how it felt to me than active loneliness. it was especially bad in my late teens, but i had some heavily compounding factors that put me materially out of sync with my supposed peer-group at the time, on top of the basic thing.

i'm trying to think back on it and analyse a little bit here. i think it breaks down in my mind now to two slightly different things. one is the practical functional fact of being so different, which was isolating but sort of emotionally inert. the second is something that used to affect me a lot more back then. it was the emotional impact i'd get every time i did venture something about my own self and meet those blank-incomprehensions or worse from whoever i'd shown it to. i realise now that back in those days, i sort of took every individual setback as if it were the key or the 'proof' of the global picture. that might be one of those intj-ish type things, where you actually can take a little piece of the picture and somehow construct the entire global picture itself, out of it. you know our type group, i guess. always extrapolating. always theorizing and looking for that system-level view of it all; that Answer. and it does make a kind of sense.

after all, at 18 i had very little hands-on personal experience of pretty much anything, so i was sort of constrained to building this theoretical construct about the whole world from such things. it makes sense logically under the circumstances, but it was pretty discouraging when you applied it to the social/emotional sphere. "person x looked at me funny when i said this; oh god, that must mean that the whole world has never heard about it and will never get it which in turn has to mean i'm a permanent social exile; oh despair doom.

one thing that helped, dramatically, was taking a whole set of various stanine-type tests about various things, and getting to see myself actually plotted as a specific point relative to the rest of the world. it helped enormously, because it actually demonstrated that my impressions weren't mistaken at all: i was an outlier, in pretty much any way that you picked for looking at it. i can't explain to you why it made a difference when really it was just getting the concrete confirmation of what i already felt, but for some reason it did. it caused me euphoria and relief instead of strain and despair. i guess the main thing was, i stopped expecting the 'whole world' to be on the same page as me, so i stopped emotionally walking into that same invisible pane of glass every time i opened my mouth.

so that was the first thing that helped. the second one, as far as attracting other people like me or getting that i-get-you-recognition or whatever you feel like calling it, was putting it out there. for me, none of this is ever really about finding 'like minded' activities or groups or whatever; i can't say that i ever found that that worked for me. a bunch of fellow [thing] enthusiasts is just as likely to bore me or not-get me or whatever as any other sample group of the population at large.

on the other hand, i've dredged up friends and 'click' kinds of conversations out of all kinds of environments and activities, and the common factor has always been the good old advice about just 'being yourself'. that was when i'd start getting contact signals and outreach messages from other people. my friendship base is drawn from a pretty eclectic collection of sources, from long-ago workplaces where i never took the slightest interest, to online forums like this one, to random conversations i've initiated or stood up for in the general world.

it's not where you are or what you're doing that speaks for you, i've found in my own life. it's what you say. if you stand out in some way, sure your'e going to stand out and that's an isolated kind of feeling. but if you don't stand up and stand out, how are the other outlier people out there even going to know you're around?

 

[pwoita]

Eh, I have only really deeply connected with a couple of people in my life (and unfortunately, it was both friends and never any of my gf's, though obviously there was some connection there too, but not the same depth).
Met the first when I went back to uni at 25. Met the second when I was bored out of my mind in a new city and went to a pub for a drink and (I assume he) initiated a conversation.

I think INTJ's look for really really deep connections, and find emptiness without it, unlike other types who somehow can feel fulfilled just knowing lots of people but not deeply connecting. The seem alien to me - but I envy their ability to have their needs met so easily.

Anyway, regarding helping this, I think it helps to meet people. If you can connect well with 1/500 people, then you really need to meet more people to try and find someone. If you don't meet people (like most introverts), then you have to work on practicing meeting people - even though its so god damn boring.

 

[BrokenGenius]

I just found this, I agree with most of what is said

 

[Json221]

@BrokenGenius, the video above is very good and I noticed myself stopping facebook for the very reason. An excellent reminder to make sure time spent with friends is actually meaningful.

This topic seems like it would effect almost every INTJ. Any more thoughts? Current my plan is to continue being serious about my studies, and do something similar to what lilysocks says has worked for her - be "myself" in public and hope there are like minded individuals who will be able to "discover me". Furthermore, I have given BrokenGenius's sentiments more thought, and I see his point now. I still believe what Powerhouse said - "no man is an island" - remains true, but perhaps one just needs 3-4 excellent friends to be satisfied (plus a spouse and kids, or whatever one wants in life).

 

[Delilah]

I disagree with the people saying that "irl is almost always better" - I find it the opposite. IRL, I am judged on how I look, not on how I think and feel. (eg: i notice when my hair is blonde, that people treat me like i'm stupid). I hate this. I much prefer making deep connections with friends/etc online and in fact, my last two relationships were with people I met online.

I think this issue is an INTJ/INFJ dilemma We *both* want deep connections, but they are so elusive. Society is made up of sensors who largely seem to be more shallow and don't need the same level of connection that we crave. I have felt this very deep need for a long time, and I have only found it to be filled by an INTJ - no other type.

One thing that I have found to be unique about me is that when I deem someone worthy of my help, I am very enthusiastic and emotionally invested in their success. For example, if I see a friend showing dissatisfaction with their procrastination habits and they seem open to help, I have a strong (emotional) urge to help them and guide them through. I've had to repress this urge many times in my life because most people seem to get scared away when someone is so enthusiastic about helping them. This further convinces me of how different/alone I am, because I would love it if someone who had experience than me would be interested in helping/guiding/mentoring. In reflecting on this emotional urge, I realize it is not just a desire to be appreciated, but a desire to truly help others and "give back" - I live vicariously through their success.

I can relate to this =) I have also noticed that INTJs can be extremely selfless and altruistic in "wanting to help" others. It's one of the reasons I love them to pieces. It is not a very common trait - in my experience, most people are selfish jerks and are more takers than givers, so to find a connection with someone who is *also* a giver just makes me happy - synergy, baby!

I would suggest being cautious about who you invest in, because you will become drained if you're not careful - I speak from experience, here. My INTJ best friend has always helped me with everything, and I would do absolutely anything for him. This is because we have a relationship of mutual give/give, instead of someone being the giver and someone being the taker.

 

[pwoita]

I can relate to this =) I have also noticed that INTJs can be extremely selfless and altruistic in "wanting to help" others. It's one of the reasons I love them to pieces. It is not a very common trait - in my experience, most people are selfish jerks and are more takers than givers, so to find a connection with someone who is *also* a giver just makes me happy - synergy, baby!

I never really thought much about this. I do really like to help/teach/mentor someone to improve in a way I know a lot about, and didn't really think about whether that was normal/common or not.

But one thing I did notice is that I absolutely can not stand when someone asks for your help, then you waste a whole lot of time and they don't follow through on any of it.
This was a problem with one of my close friends. You know how people get that 'high' when you achieve something - well he gets it just by talking about a plan to do something. Then he gives himself the mental hi5 and is all proud of himself, and because he has got his 'reward', he doesn't follow through - ever. Now when he asks my advice on something I try to remember to just cut the conversation short because, while I love to help and see people improve in ways I know how to help them, I hate the false bullshit that can go with it with most people.

 

[Delilah]

But one thing I did notice is that I absolutely can not stand when someone asks for your help, then you waste a whole lot of time and they don't follow through on any of it.
This was a problem with one of my close friends. You know how people get that 'high' when you achieve something - well he gets it just by talking about a plan to do something. Then he gives himself the mental hi5 and is all proud of himself, and because he has got his 'reward', he doesn't follow through - ever. Now when he asks my advice on something I try to remember to just cut the conversation short because, while I love to help and see people improve in ways I know how to help them, I hate the false bullshit that can go with it with most people.

Speaking of which, I'm on my way to *that country you gave me info on* for 4 months leaving in 4 weeks. Thanks for your advice, you inspired me. lol. =)

 

[WolfStar]

Ok, I'll admit I only read the first half of your post, so there's that. XD

Anyways, life isn't about finding people similar to ourselves, having them validate the way we think/feel/mindsets/perceptions/etc. Life is about learning. Life is about learning how to form meaningful relationships with all sorts of people, not surrounding yourself with people similar to you so that you gain security through their validation of your self.

You will miss plenty of opportunities when you are focused on seeking something from people.

Dunno how well received that will be, but there you have it. Also, I'm very very skeptical whenever people say they like 'personal development'. Like, what does that even mean.