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Discussion Starter #1
Curiousity overwhelmed me so I started this thread. :p
 

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Wow, this thread sure got a lot of replies...

I'm not an ESTJ, but I'm interacting with them on a daily basis. My best friend is also an ESTJ, so maybe I can help a little with that question :)

ESTJs generally admire:

- Personal ambition
- Structure
- Honesty (and keeping true to your word)
- Punctuality, efficiency and general social etiquette
- Ability to see the importance of little details (how it contributes to a bigger picture)

And what they hate is basically the opposite of everything listed above. Keep in mind that the definition of social etiquette can vary even among ESTJs. I've seen plenty of ESTJs turn on each other when they don't live up to each other's definition of what is "proper". Some ESTJs don't like people who try to show off too much or trample/manipulate others, others thrive for it.

Also, while honesty is always appreciated, it shouldn't be achieved at the cost of abandoning your manners.

I get along pretty well with most ESTJs, though. Especially in work environments. If you don't dress sloppily, treat them with respect and get things done on time, they mostly have no reason to dislike you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Right? Thank you for replying.
 

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Wow, this thread sure got a lot of replies...

I'm not an ESTJ, but I'm interacting with them on a daily basis. My best friend is also an ESTJ, so maybe I can help a little with that question :)

ESTJs generally admire:

- Personal ambition
- Structure
- Honesty (and keeping true to your word)
- Punctuality, efficiency and general social etiquette
- Ability to see the importance of little details (how it contributes to a bigger picture)

And what they hate is basically the opposite of everything listed above. Keep in mind that the definition of social etiquette can vary even among ESTJs. I've seen plenty of ESTJs turn on each other when they don't live up to each other's definition of what is "proper". Some ESTJs don't like people who try to show off too much or trample/manipulate others, others thrive for it.

Also, while honesty is always appreciated, it shouldn't be achieved at the cost of abandoning your manners.

I get along pretty well with most ESTJs, though. Especially in work environments. If you don't dress sloppily, treat them with respect and get things done on time, they mostly have no reason to dislike you.
Makes me wish I knew more ESTJs. We would be awesome together.


Side note: Only an INTP and two ENTPs have answered this...looks like we're hijacking the ESTJ thread!
 
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Keep in mind that the definition of social etiquette can vary even among ESTJs. I've seen plenty of ESTJs turn on each other when they don't live up to each other's definition of what is "proper". Some ESTJs don't like people who try to show off too much or trample/manipulate others, others thrive for it.
I have wondered about this. It's as if each ESTJ has their own rigid definition of "proper" and I'd probably find the conflict a little freaky.

Side note: Only an INTP and two ENTPs have answered this...looks like we're hijacking the ESTJ thread!
Add an ISTP to that! The ESTJ forum threads don't get many replies in general, let alone replies by other ESTJs.
 

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Hate: lier's, cheaters, anyone that lacks integrity.

Admire: The opposite of the above.
 

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What I admire from people:

  1. The ability to balance logic with wisdom.
  2. Ambition and how they achieve it.
  3. On time.
  4. Honesty.
  5. Selflessness.
  6. Humility, humbleness.
  7. Compassion for others.
  8. Tough, complain-less. I always admire people whose never complain and just get things done.
  9. Dependable and responsible.
  10. Integrity. They keep their words and promises.
  11. Consistency.

What I hate from people:

  1. Stupidity.
  2. Liar.
  3. Selfishness.
  4. Arrogance.
  5. Sloppy, messy, lack of manner and/or common sense.
  6. Grumpy, complains a lot, always blaming others.
  7. Gloomy, emo.
  8. Incompetent or unprofessional at work. Really, if you can't pay attention to the details, forgetful, and can't even organize yourself, don't be an editor nor secretary.
  9. NATO (No Action Talk Only).
  10. Lack of ambition.
  11. Inconsistency.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Finally, ESTJs!
 

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For me I really just hate people in general. I know itsounds weird coming form an E but I really do. People are terrible people. I likeindividuals when I interact with them. However, I find that humans as a wholeare deceptive, vindictive, irrational life forms that are incapable of thinkingrationally about a situation because the let their emotions get in the way ofreason. In the end all people are doing is looking out for number one.
 

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For me I really just hate people in general. I know itsounds weird coming form an E but I really do. People are terrible people. I likeindividuals when I interact with them. However, I find that humans as a wholeare deceptive, vindictive, irrational life forms that are incapable of thinkingrationally about a situation because the let their emotions get in the way ofreason. In the end all people are doing is looking out for number one.
And this.
 

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My grandpa is an ESTJ. I vividly remember a specific situation with which the "don't lie" principle among others rang loud and clear. He called come company to have a wreath made as a surprise for my grandma. Just as he hung up the phone my grandma came in and asked him who he was talking to. He told her. She told him that he could have just told her a white lie. I don't think I will ever forget what he said. Angrily, he said, "A lie is a lie. I do not lie."

Also woe betide you if you coil the hose incorrectly.
 

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My grandpa is an ESTJ. I vividly remember a specific situation with which the "don't lie" principle among others rang loud and clear. He called come company to have a wreath made as a surprise for my grandma. Just as he hung up the phone my grandma came in and asked him who he was talking to. He told her. She told him that he could have just told her a white lie. I don't think I will ever forget what he said. Angrily, he said, "A lie is a lie. I do not lie."

Also woe betide you if you coil the hose incorrectly.
I love your grandpa already.
 
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You guys are the best :wink:
 

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I think the thing that I dislike most in a person if they're trying to be something they're not. This goes hand-and-hand with lying. I like to say I have a good "bullshit-o-meter" and I despise the people who are full of shit. For example, if I'm in a group talking about music, which is something I'm very passionate about, I would rather someone say that they do not know a lot about music than to act like they do. I don't really "judge" people, in the negative connotation of the word, if they are truly being who they are but I will if they are being disingenuous.

I admire people who can stand up to me and share their opinions with me, even if they disagree. Unless it's emotionally charged, cause then that's how fights start. I really do enjoy hearing other people's perspective on something, but, having a dominating personality, I have found many people would rather just agree with me than to say what they think. That is also related to the honesty/lying thing too.
 

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I think the thing that I dislike most in a person if they're trying to be something they're not. This goes hand-and-hand with lying. I like to say I have a good "bullshit-o-meter" and I despise the people who are full of shit. For example, if I'm in a group talking about music, which is something I'm very passionate about, I would rather someone say that they do not know a lot about music than to act like they do. I don't really "judge" people, in the negative connotation of the word, if they are truly being who they are but I will if they are being disingenuous.

I admire people who can stand up to me and share their opinions with me, even if they disagree. Unless it's emotionally charged, cause then that's how fights start. I really do enjoy hearing other people's perspective on something, but, having a dominating personality, I have found many people would rather just agree with me than to say what they think. That is also related to the honesty/lying thing too.
Hmm could you give me an example? I tend to get slightly annoyed but not too worked up because nobody seems completely genuine these days.

I agree with you completely. Sometimes when people agree with me on things, I'm not sure if they actually do or if I was just being really pushy.
 

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Hmm could you give me an example? I tend to get slightly annoyed but not too worked up because nobody seems completely genuine these days.

I agree with you completely. Sometimes when people agree with me on things, I'm not sure if they actually do or if I was just being really pushy.
Well the first real life example that popped into my head is a little trivial, but I think it displays what I mean. My family and I are really into this board game called Catan (if you've never heard of it, I highly suggest you check it out) so I was talking with my ex-boyfriend, I believe it was on our first date so before he was my boyfriend, and the conversation some how lead to me mentioning that my family loves to play Catan. He told me he loved playing that game too, and then we quickly started talking about something else. That excited me because, being competitive, I was glad that we could play that game together without the annoyance of me teaching it to him (it's kind of a complex game and I'm a terrible teacher).
So once we actually started dating and we were on our way for him to meet my parents, I told him that they would probably want to play Catan with us, since that's kind of how my competitive family initiates people. He then told me he had actually never heard of the game before and lied to me on our first date because he wanted to impress me. The tone of his voice was also in a "oh it's just one of those silly little things people do" manner. Well, that really, really annoyed me. I do not understand why he didn't just tell me he had never heard of the game before, it's not like most people have anyways so I wasn't expecting him to whatsoever. I remember thinking that if he could lie about something so unimportantly trivial, then what else would he lie about? I can deal with people lying to me if it is something sensitive and really personal that they don't feel comfortable sharing with me, but that's really the only exception. I actually ended up breaking up with him a few months later, and I kinda think that was the point where our relationship started going downhill. Like I said, it may seem insignificant to some, but lying to try to impress me has always been a major turnoff for me. And obviously there were other things that also led to our breakup.

Does that example help?

ESTJs are known for being blunt and honest people, so we have no trouble telling people what we actually think regardless of others' opinions. We are probably the type to least likely to become a victim of groupthink. We can logically understand why other people aren't as honestly blunt as us, but at the same time that doesn't necessarily mean we like to put up with it. We are also notorious for our intolerance for inefficiency and people wasting our time. If you're lying to me, and without a good reason, then you're basically wasting my time.
That previous sentence is also a great example about how blunt we can be.
 

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Well the first real life example that popped into my head is a little trivial, but I think it displays what I mean. My family and I are really into this board game called Catan (if you've never heard of it, I highly suggest you check it out) so I was talking with my ex-boyfriend, I believe it was on our first date so before he was my boyfriend, and the conversation some how lead to me mentioning that my family loves to play Catan. He told me he loved playing that game too, and then we quickly started talking about something else. That excited me because, being competitive, I was glad that we could play that game together without the annoyance of me teaching it to him (it's kind of a complex game and I'm a terrible teacher).
So once we actually started dating and we were on our way for him to meet my parents, I told him that they would probably want to play Catan with us, since that's kind of how my competitive family initiates people. He then told me he had actually never heard of the game before and lied to me on our first date because he wanted to impress me. The tone of his voice was also in a "oh it's just one of those silly little things people do" manner. Well, that really, really annoyed me. I do not understand why he didn't just tell me he had never heard of the game before, it's not like most people have anyways so I wasn't expecting him to whatsoever. I remember thinking that if he could lie about something so unimportantly trivial, then what else would he lie about? I can deal with people lying to me if it is something sensitive and really personal that they don't feel comfortable sharing with me, but that's really the only exception. I actually ended up breaking up with him a few months later, and I kinda think that was the point where our relationship started going downhill. Like I said, it may seem insignificant to some, but lying to try to impress me has always been a major turnoff for me. And obviously there were other things that also led to our breakup.

Does that example help?

ESTJs are known for being blunt and honest people, so we have no trouble telling people what we actually think regardless of others' opinions. We are probably the type to least likely to become a victim of groupthink. We can logically understand why other people aren't as honestly blunt as us, but at the same time that doesn't necessarily mean we like to put up with it. We are also notorious for our intolerance for inefficiency and people wasting our time. If you're lying to me, and without a good reason, then you're basically wasting my time.
That previous sentence is also a great example about how blunt we can be.
Yeah, I kind of feel you. I mean, it's not like being honest would make you hate him forever. It's only just about a board game. Yeah, that's understandable. I see. Yup, it did.

I love ESTJs because they actually offer me detailed constructive criticism instead of some feel-good comment that wouldn't help me at all. Why do people assume that ESTJs believe in groupthink so much? What do you think? I feel you. I like that kind of bluntness.
 

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Yeah, I kind of feel you. I mean, it's not like being honest would make you hate him forever. It's only just about a board game. Yeah, that's understandable. I see. Yup, it did.

I love ESTJs because they actually offer me detailed constructive criticism instead of some feel-good comment that wouldn't help me at all. Why do people assume that ESTJs believe in groupthink so much? What do you think? I feel you. I like that kind of bluntness.
Yeah, ESTJs and ENTJs are very similar. I always find it refreshing when I meet an ENTJ, they always provide me with fresh perspectives and I love it. Great conversations, we can always be so blunt with one another. It's awesome when I don't have to sugar-coat something to someone I just met. I can usually tell when someone is an ENTJ almost immediately.

When I was growing up, my parents always lectured me about me being too opinionated and that it was okay for other people to have opinions that differed from mine. They said I was being closed-minded. Hell, they still get on my case about that. While I won't argue whether I'm opinionated, cause I definitely am, I do reject the notion that it means that I am therefore automatically closed-minded. I can see how it would seem like the two correlate, but I do not think they necessarily do. Especially if the ESTJ is well-developed, which I believe I am. I do make decisions quickly and rarely change my mind from it, but at the same time before I make that decision I do look at it from all perspectives before I reach my final decision. I have always felt that my brain's thought process is quicker than others for this reason. I also know that I am really good at looking at things from others' perspectives (which is why many ESTJs make great lawyers). At the same time, ESTJs hate being wrong so I will only say something if I am 100% certain that I am right. If I'm not, I will tell people that, "I'm only 98% sure," to provide an exit route just in case. We also aren't risk-takers either. But I will change my mind if need be, and when I do I'll own up to it.

Anyways, I kind of went on a tangent. I think that since we can come off as closed-minded that it makes us sound like we only want people to reinforce our opinions rather than challenge it, hence the groupthink. And it doesn't help that we say it with such strong confidence either. Though other ESTJs might be different, we obviously aren't all the same. While I will admit that I can definitely be stubborn about things that personally affect me, but with anything else I can be very easy going. I consider myself to be a "live and let live" person, except for when it comes to the people I'm close to. I don't want them to do something I think is stupid. And when it comes to the workplace if someone brings up an idea that's different than mine, but better, I'll admit to it. Probably because ESTJs don't take a lot of things personally, unless it was intended to be. We want everything to be as efficient as possible, so if someone brings up a way to better achieve it and we happened to overlook it, we want them to tell us. I bet we will also give that person a lot of praise too, we don't hold back our opinions in that regard either.
 
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