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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to keep this brief. I've been quite heavily into MBTI for the past four years or so, and perhaps I'm taking this way too seriously, but I cannot for the life of me determine which type I am. I started out thinking I was an INTJ for a year or two, before I "converted" to INTP - which is what I've believed I am for a good two years now. However, if I am totally honest with myself, something has always felt just a bit off about it. I'm 99% sure I'm INxx and perhaps 80% sure I'm not an INFP. But I also feel I'm not emotional and caring enough to be an INFJ? Anyway, I thought that instead of just listing self-perceived characteristics, I would ask you all (very kindly) to read a philosophical ramble of mine and see which type "feels" right to you. I'm eighteen years old, by the way, if that's of any help (yes, I realise I'm young).

So, here's a look into my mind:

"Every so often, I am struck by this intense feeling, or sensation rather, of derealisation. It strikes me at the most inopportune times, hands cupping a hot cup of tea or when writing a paper for school. What is it that we're all doing here? What even is this? Reality seems to drop away. Or rather, I seem to drop away, and the world is but a mirage, a dream. Lucid dreaming. When you know you're dreaming, you know that none of it matters anyway. I feel disillusioned. Tricked. And coupled with that indescribable sensation of derealisation, comes a certain dread: Why is it that we do what we do? We go about our daily routine, our tasks and chores, our commitments—but for what? In the end, it is all for naught, right?
These thoughts usually come to me at night, and I can't help but feel that this is when my mind is the clearest, talking to me with candour, when all my barriers are down. It's almost as though the shields my brain has put up to protect me, come down, and in floods the truth, filling me paradoxically with both crippling hopelessness and immense hope. Another metaphor: Your life and your mind, your existence, is a darkened house. There are windows, but they're covered by shutters. There might be a few candles here and there, but they don't illuminate the whole house, and you're left mostly in the dark. You find meaning in the menial tasks you perform in this house, since you don't know any better. At night, however, the someones or somethings holding the shutters in place, get tired, and so the shutters fall away, and in spills the light, the truth. You catch a glimpse of the outside and realise how limited you are in your silly house. It might be warm and comfortable, but when you've realised there's more to life than that humdrum house, it feels almost unbearable. Everything is covered in a thick layer of dust and the miserable linoleum floor (orange and brown) is littered with garbage. The ambiguous outside is tantalising, albeit scary and confusing. (I just realised that this in many ways resembles Plato's cave allegory.) Anyway, when we sleep, the "people" whose job it is to hold the shutters in place, rest with us, and in the morning, they're yet again strong enough to hold the shutters in place for another day, and in the dark again (literally), we return to our ignorance, our routine. Perhaps this is why I feel so englightened now—for lack of sleep?
Putting these feelings and thoughts into text somehow minimalises them, weakens them, as language has the tendency to do with our thoughts and feelings. But I must do it still. It seems important, and there is something rare and palpable about text that cannot be found many other places.
It seems that most of the time, we do things to avoid something and not to actually accomplish anything. Our thoughts are almost always focused on the things we must avoid. Have you noticed that? We act according to societal norms to avoid rejection, becoming outcasts. We're always afraid of something, that's what it is. Naturally, on the opposite side of this fear, is the thing we we want, but the more I think about it, I realise that I don't really wish for the approval of total strangers or other things of that nature. Not rationally. They're just getting in the way of the things I actually want, cluttering my mind with their incessant primitive babble of fear.
We walk through life mostly oblivious of why we do the things we do. Because we just have to, we say, defending our petty chores, our narrow, boring routine. We try to acommodate the people around us, become one with the others. That's what life is all about, like it or not. In order to have that hour in front of the television after work, those two weeks of relaxation in the summer, playing beached ways in some warm climate, we must all do this boring stuff 90% of the time. How sick is that! What a cruel game!
And at the end, lying on our deathbed, with a lot of past and an ever-shrinking future, some might feel bitterness, regret, others contentedness—and most will agree upon the fact that those who feel content have somehow won at this thing we call Life. Contentedness? Is that what this will amount to? We look at that clouded, dreamlike (or nightmarish) Past and think, Huh, I did an okay job at this. Not too bad. I'll give myself a pat on the shoulder! Is that all we get? It seems like some kind of sick practical joke, really, and I am certainly not content with that. I feel a bit cheated, and as I'm writing this, I resolve to do something about it. But of course, the shutters might be slammed back in place any moment, and I'll go back to my mostly mindless existence, worrying, doing to avoid and not to accomplish.
I'm also struck by the fleetingness of the present, of the moment. Does the moment even exist? I mean, it seems to me more like this: The past continuously swallowing the future. With each word I write, the past grows larger, the opportunities diminishing. The present doesn't actually exist—it's just the edge of the bloated, and ever-swelling, past.
This is my view of time: We pace the timeline, never able to stop, forced forward by the invisible force called Time, but perhaps able to slow down or speed up (?), very rarely conscious of time itself, the mounting Past and the shrinking Future. Walking through life trying to be as comfortable as possible. Because that's what life is about for most people. Comfort. (Tangent: Comfort?! I for one believe we only have one chance at this thing called Life, and we spend it trying to be as comfortable as possible. What a waste! Or?) Anyway, back to the cloudy Past, the fleeting or perhaps non-existent Present (depending on your view), and the uncertain Future. We go about life, often trying to make time pass, as we wait for something (Waiting for Godot grows with meaning as I write this!), Past mounting, Future shrinking with each passing moment.
I see the past in two ways: First, the depressing metaphor: the past is a cloudy, not quite palpable substance, tailing us and growing larger with every moment, not quite real, but still there, slowing us down, showing in our grey hair, wrinkled skin, murkiness of our eyes and general decay. Not really a part of us, but still tainting us, altering what we will do in the future. Events that might seems important at the time, wane, becoming one with the cloudy Past, everything flattening, becoming unimportant, monotonous—it's not much in the big picture, people will say, as time passes and that embarrassment they felt when tripping in front of a crowd, no longer makes them cringe—no, I disagree; it has nothing whatsoever to do with "the big picture", instead it has everything to do with the present, the very small picture, the tiniest, most subjective picture possible! Seen clearly, the past is a terrifying thing, and isn't it interesting that it is at night (when your mind is clearest, but also most vulnerable), that your past also becomes clearest, when your daily routine gives way to the truth. You are perhaps filled with regret at those times, cringing at past embarrassments. Our mind protects us against this thing called the Past. If it didn't, we would go insane. Or would we? Isn't it just keeping us in check, stopping us from really seeing things in perspective? Realising with full clearity how oblivious we actually are?
The second, slightly more optimistic metaphor describing the past is as follows: We are born, continuously pacing the timeline, but as we walk, the past doesn't tail us; we swallow the past as we go, like some weird video game (Pac-Man, basically), and it's all about picking out what one wants to include in one's mind. We choose the past by controlling the fleeting present and the uncertain future. Or, the three control each other in a way. It's very confusing. A sort of snowball effect.
Anyway, something else, that to me seems fundamentally wrong: Since we are always doing things to avoid, life is always about maintaining things. Maintaining our health, social circle, family, what have you. As our snowball grows and things get stuck to it (new friends, new hobbies), we fight to keep them all stuck to the damn snowball. Life is essentially about getting a really big snowball. So when the Grim Reaper comes knocking, you'll have something to show for your endavours. I realise how crazy this sounds, but in a general sense, it is very true.
And those who don't maintain all those things that get stuck to their snowball are frowned upon by society. Those who don't juggle a million balls at once. People who can't keep friends, people who neglect their health and home and garden, and who jump from one thing to another. We tend to think that those who aren't in the business of Maintaining the Different Aspects of Their Life, live a pointless life, nothing ever amounting to anything. But how are the people who maintain any different? Why are we maintaining these things in the first place? To look back on life with contentedness? For fear of that final regret, perhaps? There it is again—fear, permeating ever nook and cranny of our life. There's a sort of desperation to it, a desire to fill every moment with something productive, something that will amount to something, but that never does—and if it does, what does it matter if it doesn't lead to happiness? We are simultaneously trying to pass time and clinging to it with every fibre of our being.
But why am I bothering with these thoughts? Is it even possible to escape the house that is our humdrum existence? It is the possibility of escape that fills me with hope, but if this isn't possible, I think perhaps I prefer the ignorance and oblivion of the snug, dimly lit house, the safety of small dreams, comfortable warmth and routine. Living with the constant temptation of the grand outside—the drabness of the house harshly contrasted against it—seems almost unbearable in the long run. Perhaps it's time for the shutters to be put back in place so I can return to Maintaining."

Thanks!

- whisperlumos
 

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I'm not sure about T/F yet, so I'll have to keep reading this, but the fact that you chose to post this as a ramble instead of trying to tidy it up and make it more focused tells me that you're probably a far stronger Perceiver than you are a Judger, so now we're down to INxP.

Does that sound right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hm, perhaps. But this isn't usually how I write texts; I wrote it in a burst of inspiration a little while ago and never really edited it. Also, can't INxJs appear even more-so on the perceiving side though text due to their Pi functions?

Thanks for your answer!
 

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I​
"Every so often, I am struck by this intense feeling, or sensation rather, of derealisation.
It strikes me at the most inopportune times, hands cupping a hot cup of tea or when writing a paper for school. What is it that we're all doing here? What even is this? Reality seems to drop away. Or rather, I seem to drop away, and the world is but a mirage, a dream. Lucid dreaming. When you know you're dreaming, you know that none of it matters anyway. I feel disillusioned. Tricked. And coupled with that indescribable sensation of derealisation, comes a certain dread: Why is it that we do what we do? We go about our daily routine, our tasks and chores, our commitments—but for what? In the end, it is all for naught, right?

These thoughts usually come to me at night, and I can't help but feel that this is when my mind is the clearest, talking to me with candour, when all my barriers are down. It's almost as though the shields my brain has put up to protect me, come down, and in floods the truth, filling me paradoxically with both crippling hopelessness and immense hope. Another metaphor: Your life and your mind, your existence, is a darkened house. There are windows, but they're covered by shutters. There might be a few candles here and there, but they don't illuminate the whole house, and you're left mostly in the dark.

You find meaning in the menial tasks you perform in this house, since you don't know any better. At night, however, the someones or somethings holding the shutters in place, get tired, and so the shutters fall away, and in spills the light, the truth. You catch a glimpse of the outside and realise how limited you are in your silly house. It might be warm and comfortable, but when you've realised there's more to life than that humdrum house, it feels almost unbearable.

Everything is covered in a thick layer of dust and the miserable linoleum floor (orange and brown) is littered with garbage. The ambiguous outside is tantalising, albeit scary and confusing. (I just realised that this in many ways resembles Plato's cave allegory.) Anyway, when we sleep, the "people" whose job it is to hold the shutters in place, rest with us, and in the morning, they're yet again strong enough to hold the shutters in place for another day, and in the dark again (literally), we return to our ignorance, our routine. Perhaps this is why I feel so enlightened now—for lack of sleep? Putting these feelings and thoughts into text somehow minimalises them, weakens them, as language has the tendency to do with our thoughts and feelings. But I must do it still. It seems important, and there is something rare and palpable about text that cannot be found many other places.

II​

It seems that most of the time, we do things to avoid something
and not to actually accomplish anything. Our thoughts are almost always focused on the things we must avoid. Have you noticed that? We act according to societal norms to avoid rejection, becoming outcasts. We're always afraid of something, that's what it is. Naturally, on the opposite side of this fear, is the thing we we want, but the more I think about it, I realise that I don't really wish for the approval of total strangers or other things of that nature. Not rationally. They're just getting in the way of the things I actually want, cluttering my mind with their incessant primitive babble of fear.

We walk through life mostly oblivious of why we do the things we do. Because we just have to, we say, defending our petty chores, our narrow, boring routine. We try to accommodate the people around us, become one with the others. That's what life is all about, like it or not. In order to have that hour in front of the television after work, those two weeks of relaxation in the summer, playing beached ways in some warm climate, we must all do this boring stuff 90% of the time. How sick is that! What a cruel game!

And at the end, lying on our deathbed, with a lot of past and an ever-shrinking future, some might feel bitterness, regret, others contentedness—and most will agree upon the fact that those who feel content have somehow won at this thing we call Life. Contentedness? Is that what this will amount to? We look at that clouded, dreamlike (or nightmarish) Past and think, Huh, I did an okay job at this. Not too bad. I'll give myself a pat on the shoulder! Is that all we get? It seems like some kind of sick practical joke, really, and I am certainly not content with that. I feel a bit cheated, and as I'm writing this, I resolve to do something about it. But of course, the shutters might be slammed back in place any moment, and I'll go back to my mostly mindless existence, worrying, doing to avoid and not to accomplish.

III​

I'm also struck by the fleetingness of the present, of the moment.
Does the moment even exist? I mean, it seems to me more like this: The past continuously swallowing the future. With each word I write, the past grows larger, the opportunities diminishing. The present doesn't actually exist—it's just the edge of the bloated, and ever-swelling, past.

This is my view of time: We pace the timeline, never able to stop, forced forward by the invisible force called Time, but perhaps able to slow down or speed up (?), very rarely conscious of time itself, the mounting Past and the shrinking Future. Walking through life trying to be as comfortable as possible. Because that's what life is about for most people. Comfort. (Tangent: Comfort?! I for one believe we only have one chance at this thing called Life, and we spend it trying to be as comfortable as possible. What a waste! Or?) Anyway, back to the cloudy Past, the fleeting or perhaps non-existent Present (depending on your view), and the uncertain Future. We go about life, often trying to make time pass, as we wait for something (Waiting for Godot grows with meaning as I write this!), Past mounting, Future shrinking with each passing moment.

I see the past in two ways: First, the depressing metaphor: the past is a cloudy, not quite palpable substance, tailing us and growing larger with every moment, not quite real, but still there, slowing us down, showing in our grey hair, wrinkled skin, murkiness of our eyes and general decay. Not really a part of us, but still tainting us, altering what we will do in the future. Events that might seems important at the time, wane, becoming one with the cloudy Past, everything flattening, becoming unimportant, monotonous—it's not much in the big picture, people will say, as time passes and that embarrassment they felt when tripping in front of a crowd, no longer makes them cringe—no, I disagree; it has nothing whatsoever to do with "the big picture", instead it has everything to do with the present, the very small picture, the tiniest, most subjective picture possible! Seen clearly, the past is a terrifying thing, and isn't it interesting that it is at night (when your mind is clearest, but also most vulnerable), that your past also becomes clearest, when your daily routine gives way to the truth. You are perhaps filled with regret at those times, cringing at past embarrassments. Our mind protects us against this thing called the Past. If it didn't, we would go insane. Or would we? Isn't it just keeping us in check, stopping us from really seeing things in perspective? Realising with full clarity how oblivious we actually are?

The second, slightly more optimistic metaphor describing the past is as follows: We are born, continuously pacing the timeline, but as we walk, the past doesn't tail us; we swallow the past as we go, like some weird video game (Pac-Man, basically), and it's all about picking out what one wants to include in one's mind. We choose the past by controlling the fleeting present and the uncertain future. Or, the three control each other in a way. It's very confusing. A sort of snowball effect.

IV​

Anyway, something else, that to me seems fundamentally wrong:
Since we are always doing things to avoid, life is always about maintaining things. Maintaining our health, social circle, family, what have you. As our snowball grows and things get stuck to it (new friends, new hobbies), we fight to keep them all stuck to the damn snowball. Life is essentially about getting a really big snowball. So when the Grim Reaper comes knocking, you'll have something to show for your endavours. I realise how crazy this sounds, but in a general sense, it is very true.

And those who don't maintain all those things that get stuck to their snowball are frowned upon by society. Those who don't juggle a million balls at once. People who can't keep friends, people who neglect their health and home and garden, and who jump from one thing to another. We tend to think that those who aren't in the business of Maintaining the Different Aspects of Their Life, live a pointless life, nothing ever amounting to anything. But how are the people who maintain any different? Why are we maintaining these things in the first place? To look back on life with contentedness? For fear of that final regret, perhaps? There it is again—fear, permeating ever nook and cranny of our life. There's a sort of desperation to it, a desire to fill every moment with something productive, something that will amount to something, but that never does—and if it does, what does it matter if it doesn't lead to happiness? We are simultaneously trying to pass time and clinging to it with every fibre of our being.



But why am I bothering with these thoughts? Is it even possible to escape the house that is our humdrum existence? It is the possibility of escape that fills me with hope, but if this isn't possible, I think perhaps I prefer the ignorance and oblivion of the snug, dimly lit house, the safety of small dreams, comfortable warmth and routine. Living with the constant temptation of the grand outside—the drabness of the house harshly contrasted against it—seems almost unbearable in the long run. Perhaps it's time for the shutters to be put back in place so I can return to Maintaining."

Thanks!

- whisperlumos
 

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@Greyhart May I ask what led you to that conclusion?
Lots of Ne rambling but not Ti "systematic" style. Rather spirited and very personal. Could be ENFP too but I didn't notice much Te there.

Inferior=weak function that is always there as a background nice but one can become too preoccupied with it so it becomes a problem.

For ENxP
 
These sociotypes always move in the direction of places where there is physical comfort and constancy, pleasant sensations, and cannot deny themselves in this. Where they are physically comfortable, such places are good, even if they are very expensive. Love fine food, massage, rubbing. Having found one place where they feel comfortable, such as a restaurant - could go there for dinner across town. Avoid places which lack all of his needed physical facilities. Food lovers, slaves to their preferences and habits. If they have a sweet tooth, will consume sweets by kilograms. Often determines the state of their physical being by the words of others, easily suggestible by this. Sometimes can try to recreate at home the elements of the place where they felt most comfortable physically. Quickly become accustomed to the "good" and this becomes their weakness in the future - without it they cannot endure. Suggestible by authorities on issues of health - if he is told that he needs to have something treated, he will easily believe it. In this context, can fall prey to "snake oil physicians". May forget to eat on time or to take medicine, to sleep, thus are in need of caring parents or spouses.

and ENFP specifically

The IEE tends to be chronically unaware of his own bodily processes, including physiological sensations and a sense of balance and alignment with one's true desires. He sometimes has peculiar preferences or tastes, which he himself is unable to understand or fulfill. In terms of physical sensations, an IEE will almost always choose the familiar over the novel, because they know that the familiar is reliable in the positive sensation it delivers. An IEE will typically have a single item he orders at certain restaurants without fail; if he isn't in the mood for that item he doesn't eat there. He will stubbornly refuse to eat anything that he knows he does not like, refusing to try a "new recipe" of anything that he did not like before. The IEE would much rather sleep in his own bed than anywhere else as a matter of familiarity, but this preference never enters his mind when a friend invites him to stay the night, sometimes resulting in a lack of quality sleep that the IEE will forget about the next time around. IEEs almost never emphasizes his attractiveness or sexuality overtly and publicly, but dreams of being pleasing to the senses to at least a small circle of trusted friends and partners who are able to develop and enhance his sexuality and attractiveness in a trusting atmosphere. He often will obsess about his looks in front of the mirror, trying to get the right combination of preparedness and liberated comfort. It is embarrassing to come to an event overdressed, as the IEE would rather look like they simply came on a whim rather than over-prepared. They will usually undermine the time spent in preparation and will avoid speaking on the topic altogether. When getting sick, the IEE may stubbornly refuse or "conveniently forget" to take any sort of medicine. Their chosen method of dealing with sickness and physical discomfort is ignoring it until it can no longer be ignored. An IEE will frequently forget meals and sleep when excitedly working on a new project or in some sort of social gathering. Exhaustion, hunger, thirst, and full bladders will be ignored until the need is overwhelming and affects the IEE's concentration.


For IxFPs
 

This person easily believes in facts and figures, often turn a deaf ear to everything but these. Keeps to places where he knows what to do in every situation. Suggestible by the external order of things, which is often the order that was in place during his upbringing: the political system, social norms, etc. Reacts sensitively to social changes: "God grant you do not live in an era of change." Always moves in the direction of highest order and carefully avoids chaos, is inspired by this order and worries that in future it might change. In this regard, may gravitate towards work in the military, which has the force of statute. It is important to him that the environment is always organized in accordance to rules and laws that he is accustomed to, that this order does not contradict the facts of objective reality. It is also important to know who should be in what position, what needs to be done, what documents must be collected, for what purpose, where they should be submitted, what is the correct way to fill them out. Feels most comfortable in situations where there is only one interpretation of correct action, without any admixture with elements of subjectivity: "in this such case, this should be done". Knowledge of the facts of the situation often replaces true understanding of the underlying problems. Understanding becomes superficial, simply a collection of surface data and statistics, laws and regulations. He does not like long and detailed explanations, will immediately interrupt and say: "So what is this in actuality?". He wants to get a working solution or order right away, not the rationale behind it. For example: "2x2=4." This is an already established rule. Likes terminology, you can sometimes talk to him only using some accepted terms and this will be sufficient. Does not like those who destroy the norms of behavior, for example, those who break the chain of command. Especially gets influenced by the facts that he sees with his own eyes or can touch with own hands. Thus he can fall victim to scams that provide specious claims and facts, especially if the scam is done out in the open ("simple dexterity of hands and no tricks").

And INFPs specifically

EIIs have a great admiration for people who are able to get things done neatly and efficiently in the outside world. They themselves consistently forget to consider whether their activities are actually achieving their intended goal, whether their time spent is bringing worthy proceeds, and whether their activities are organized in the most rational way. They subconsciously expect and appreciate it when others take interest in the effectiveness of their activities and helps to take an objective look at what they are doing.

EIIs are usually very curious and thirsty for information. When they have an interest in a particular topic or subject, they will try their best to read anything and everything about it in order to gain a thorough understanding.

They are willing to listen to anyone who is knowledgeable or has a brilliant idea to share regardless of whether that individual is an expert or authority in his/her field since they strongly believe that there are many perspectives in an issue.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
@Greyhart

I absolutely see your point. However, the INFP description isn't the best fit for me. I actually struggle very much with values and value-based decisions. I struggle to feel more, not less, and truth has always been of much greater importance to me than values. Could I still be one?
 

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Truth is a value.
 

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@Greyhart

Aren't INTPs known for their "truth at all costs" outlook on life? Where do we draw the line between Thinking and Feeling if not there? As humans, the way in which we interact with the world will inevitably be subjective, regardless of how "rational" you deem yourself. If one values rationality, logic, truth, and careful contemplation over emotions and "gut feelings", wouldn't that make you a thinker? Without a single value (even "truth at all costs"), we wouldn't be able to make decisions at all. Right?
 

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Truth is subjective as well. Hmm, this makes me think, though.

 
Tries to find a place where he is treated well by everybody. If someone expresses negative feelings towards him (for example, in a domestic fight his wife says, "I hate you"), then he takes this literally and tries to get out of there immediately and find another place where he is treated better. Therefore, they find it extremely difficult to be in places where they do not know how others are predisposed towards them. Appearance of someone who readily welcomes them is perceived as "the appearance of Christ to the people." Very suggestible when someone tells him about what relations exist between people. He likes positive emotions of other people, becomes as if charged up by them. Moves in overall direction of prevailing positive tone in emotions and avoids places with negative emotional charge. He does not like intrigue and gossip, feels uneasy in such situations since here he can easily fall victim and be put at a disadvantage. Therefore, he is critical of those who are not direct in communication, who speak in private and not openly, is suspicious of this. Relations between people should always be open, honest, and kind. What is said about one's relations should coincide with one's actions, and if not - then something is wrong. Saying that you love a person it should be demonstrated in action as well, and if your words are not visible - then they are not true. Very suspicious about predisposition of others towards him, suspects some kind of conspiracy. Even if suspicions are due to small detail, he either immediately tries to break off relations with a person or to exclude his or her from his inner circle, reducing contact with them to a minimum. Because of this he can considered a defector - if he finds people who treat him better he may ally with them, finding this a substantial enough argument to change sides. May fall victim to sycophancy.

or

These people are always moving in the direction of greatest strength, wealth, success, reliability, suggestible by the external form, appearance. They try to live a beautiful life, whatever it costs them. One gets the impression that they always manage to be on the winning side, on the side of the strongest party. If the balance of forces is switched, likewise they will change their direction. Often attracted to strong people. They are easily put into optimistic state of mind if "shaken up" a little - immediately become charged by the received pulse. They constantly try to be in environment where they has a sense of omnipotence: money, power, honor, glory, medals, etc. If they are at the the bottom of social hierarchy, will attempt to climb up by any means necessary. If something is being imposed on them, they are often not able to resist and oppose it, easily suggestible by force. Thus they may act cold, distant and aloof, just in case, as to not fall into such circumstances. A good place for him is where there is some kind of action, active work, turbulent life. He becomes unconsciously "plugged in", involved in it, and then later is surprised to discover himself where he did not expect himself to be. For this reason, they need to be careful not to get involved by chance in some business or project with which he had no desire to have an association. They are very easy pushed into something, moved towards some solution, because these people are easily manipulated by someone's force and suddenly find themselves besides such a person. Often they do not take offense at the sarcastic jokes made in their own address, as they also contain an element of force, may even perceive this as a hidden compliment. Respond to this sarcastically as the situation in principle implies he needs to reply with something for it. However, being drawn to strength and constantly going in the same direction, sooner or later he may actually reach it, and not just try to discover and obtain it. Sometimes they may try to provoke someone to use their force, for example, offer to arrange a tournament in arm wrestling.

I should probably warn that those "wall of text" function descriptions of specific types include negative aspects as well as positive. Every type can fall into "unhealth" so it describes negative tendencies as well.
 
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I see. Well, I hardly relate to it at all.
That takes out IxTPs and INxJs.


 
The individual is attracted to people seen as knowledgeable, as well as truthful and willing to share that knowledge, in matters seen as interesting and useful to the individual towards achieving productivity and efficiency. Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual; facts and explanations, not answers limited to the conclusions. For the same reason, the individual avoids people who are inclined to give out unreliable or simply untruthful information.

The individual tends to neglect to think about the productivity of his actions and unconsciously relies on others to give him directions and advice about the best, most productive ways of doing things. He has difficulties measuring how much work he has done, whether it is sufficient, and how much it is actually worth. The individual admires people who are aware of the productivity of their actions and are always trying to do something rational and worthwhile.


If that doesn't fit either
 
These sociotypes always move in the direction of places where there is physical comfort and constancy, pleasant sensations, and cannot deny themselves in this. Where they are physically comfortable, such places are good, even if they are very expensive. Love fine food, massage, rubbing. Having found one place where they feel comfortable, such as a restaurant - could go there for dinner across town. Avoid places which lack all of his needed physical facilities. Food lovers, slaves to their preferences and habits. If they have a sweet tooth, will consume sweets by kilograms. Often determines the state of their physical being by the words of others, easily suggestible by this. Sometimes can try to recreate at home the elements of the place where they felt most comfortable physically. Quickly become accustomed to the "good" and this becomes their weakness in the future - without it they cannot endure. Suggestible by authorities on issues of health - if he is told that he needs to have something treated, he will easily believe it. In this context, can fall prey to "snake oil physicians". May forget to eat on time or to take medicine, to sleep, thus are in need of caring parents or spouses.


If that doesn't fit, what are your thoughts on your type and your weak point?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
@Greyhart

I struggle to see how IxTPs and INxJs would relate to the descriptions you posted of the inferior function. I found the description quite extreme and it seems only to be of relevance to poorly developed IxTPs and INxJs. If I am in fact an INTP (which after careful contemplation and further research I do lean towards), the reason I struggle to decide is because my T/F is very balanced.

Here I've written why/why not I have Fi as my dominant function. Do you still think I could be an INFP?

In favour of Fi:

- Fi-like interests, such as reading and writing fiction
- finely tuned personal taste and strong attraction to everything that is beautiful
- highly value my personal feelings and prefer to keep them private + express them artistically
- bursts of nostalgia (could just be Si?)
- places subjective value on objects
- can at times be somewhat sensitive to criticism (though usually about for instance my writing, not my personality)
- strive to be authentic

Against Fi:

- generally have difficulty relating to Fi subjects
- repulsed by sentimentality
- pragmatic Fe approach in terms of tragedy -> sickened by people who obsess over a single tragedy (such as a kidnapping case) when much more severe (in terms of numbers) problems are at hand
- truth is incredibly important to me, and dealing with right vs. wrong is of very little interest (Richard Dawkins is one of my favourite people ever)
- I have a tendency to rationalise most everything
- public display of emotion makes me extremely uncomfortable
- prone to unexpected bursts of Fe that humiliate me to no end
- attracted to Nietzsche's amorality + amoral characters in fiction
- I see Te as a greater "enemy" than Fe
- more often than not slightly detached from my emotions, don't feel a strong connection to a certain cause (helping the weak and whatnot)
 

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I INTP F/T are not balanced - one is dominant the other is inferior. IxFJ on the other hand has x-Fe-Ti-x which indeed balance each other out. Questionnaire would be useful so I could summon FJ experts.

As for extreme cases - I keep saying it brings up unhealthy tendencies too. This is inferior Te and inferior Si. Neither struck you? Inferior Si description is spot on.
 

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I INTP F/T are not balanced - one is dominant the other is inferior. IxFJ on the other hand has x-Fe-Ti-x which indeed balance each other out. Questionnaire would be useful so I could summon FJ experts.

As for extreme cases - I keep saying it brings up unhealthy tendencies too. This is inferior Te and inferior Si. Neither struck you? Inferior Si description is spot on.

P.S. Nietzsche is much more likely Fi INTJ. The philosophy that you find fascinating isn't a type indicator. Also I am beginning to think I actually mistyped INFJ as INFP because of my own prejudice. and laziness

I'll go ahead and bother @alittlebear and @angelcat Sorry gals, I think I've made a grave mistake. Help. :th_woot:
 
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@Greyhart

I struggle to see how IxTPs and INxJs would relate to the descriptions you posted of the inferior function. I found the description quite extreme and it seems only to be of relevance to poorly developed IxTPs and INxJs. If I am in fact an INTP (which after careful contemplation and further research I do lean towards), the reason I struggle to decide is because my T/F is very balanced.

Here I've written why/why not I have Fi as my dominant function. Do you still think I could be an INFP?

In favour of Fi:

- Fi-like interests, such as reading and writing fiction
- finely tuned personal taste and strong attraction to everything that is beautiful
- highly value my personal feelings and prefer to keep them private + express them artistically
- bursts of nostalgia (could just be Si?)
- places subjective value on objects
- can at times be somewhat sensitive to criticism (though usually about for instance my writing, not my personality)
- strive to be authentic

Against Fi:

- generally have difficulty relating to Fi subjects
- repulsed by sentimentality
- pragmatic Fe approach in terms of tragedy -> sickened by people who obsess over a single tragedy (such as a kidnapping case) when much more severe (in terms of numbers) problems are at hand
- truth is incredibly important to me, and dealing with right vs. wrong is of very little interest (Richard Dawkins is one of my favourite people ever)
- I have a tendency to rationalise most everything
- public display of emotion makes me extremely uncomfortable
- prone to unexpected bursts of Fe that humiliate me to no end
- attracted to Nietzsche's amorality + amoral characters in fiction
- I see Te as a greater "enemy" than Fe
- more often than not slightly detached from my emotions, don't feel a strong connection to a certain cause (helping the weak and whatnot)
Hmm. What I'm immediately seeing is confusion about the functions (which is okay -- we all start like that, and even the most experienced typers are still learning, but I think it's something that is limiting you a little here).

For example... (I see quite a few misunderstandings but here are some obvious ones):

- Fi isn't the only one that likes to write and read fiction! Anyone can do that. Some types do it more than others, but still I know quite a few ISTJ writers, and I know ESTJs who love to read. That's not solely an Fi thing :)

- Strong attraction to everything that is beautiful? Fi? Fi does that, yes, but I think N, S, and Fe can do that as well.

- strong reaction to criticism? That's an F thing in general... and obviously a human thing, ha

- Sentimentality is Si, not Fi. It's especially strong in, say, INFPs, but it's not necessarily an Fi trait.

- Public display of emotion making you uncomfortable would actually be an Fi thing (or a T thing)... I mean I'm hesitant to say that because even as an Fe dom I feel uncomfortable when someone cries publicly or expresses love inappropriately or something, but I think that disliking public displays of emotion tends to be more Fi.

- Ha, Fe feels ridiculously tied to altruistic causes. We don't focus on one that is personal to us like Fi (I mean we do, like I'm especially an advocate for people with disabilities and against ableism, but I'm still just as upset by other injustices), but we tend to be very passionate about standing up for people. Fi does this too though, so it's hard to differentiate.

I'm mostly commenting so I can subscribe to this thread... haven't even read your OP honestly, so I don't know what your type is, but thought I would clear up some of those misunderstandings. I'll be back soon, so hang in there.
 
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