[Toxicskippy]

Alright, so I'm an INTP, obviously, and my mother is an ISFP. (I'm 99% sure of this.)
We're practically complete opposites function-wise.

I know you know your functions but here's a comparison between both of ours:

ISFP: Fi, Se, Ni, Te
INTP: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

They're so different it's disgusting. I find her personality really repulsive and annoying. She's constantly attacking me with her Fi, claiming how things should be, how I should be, because she doesn't agree with it. I keep trying to tell her to look at things in a different perspective, but she just can't. I don't have much of a problem with her Se, except that she's always using it to reinforce her Ni, which makes poor judgements and conclusions that are ridiculous and completely illogical (her standpoint on the conclusion, obviously fueled by her Fi.)

We rarely have good-natured discussions about daily topics. Everything always seems to end in a clash against ideas and beliefs, and since I don't have a passionate Fi, I usually try to leave the conversation or change it, and she doesn't like that.

I'm not horrible with my Fe, so I've tried using it to possibly make her feel appreciated by me. Since telling her about MBTI, she feels like this is simply a pre-designed plot to deceive her. That I'm forcing actions and not acting "myself" but yet she gets discouraged when I do act myself. I'm at a loss, honestly.

She also says I'm really cold-hearted and unemotional. Ahahaha. :tongue:

Please help! Answer these?

How can I try to approach our differences?

How do you, personally, react to someone like me? (INTP)

What methods do you recommend that I keep in mind when I converse with her?

How can I explain to her that MBTI is a good thing and not a tool of deception? (I've tried explaining it to her in a logical format which gives a good reasoning for using it. ex: Being able to understand why someone does or says what they do. But she still finds this deceptive)

 

[ferroequinologist]

How can I try to approach our differences?

How do you, personally, react to someone like me? (INTP)

What methods do you recommend that I keep in mind when I converse with her?

How can I explain to her that MBTI is a good thing and not a tool of deception? (I've tried explaining it to her in a logical format which gives a good reasoning for using it. ex: Being able to understand why someone does or says what they do. But she still finds this deceptive)

I hate to say it, but you are the daughter... That makes it really tough, because you aren't really in a position to change her. The only person you can have a real impact on is yourself... I know you can't change yourself, but how you relate to her, react to her, behave towards her is all you can really do. I wish I could have changed my mom--and actually tried for years, especially after I became an adult. I truly love her, and truly wanted her to be happy, and really tried to help her see her harmful attitudes that hurt her, and caused harmful behavior, and how it all really hurt her the most... but it never worked, and only made things worse. We can't fix or moms. That's truth number one. :-(

I think that the first thing you might want to keep in mind is that your Fe expressions may actually be backfiring. We tend to react to overt expressions as suspicious. Bummer. I know, but that's how it is. And, to be honest, when an INTP does it, since it is your weak function, it _really_ can come off as insincere--whether you mean it or not. It is actually quite similar to our attempts at expressing Fe-type sentiments. Do you feel your mom is sincere when she says complimentary or praising things? Do you sometimes doubt her sincerity?

One key. We don't do things well with words. When an ISFP speaks, we tend to reach into our Te. Te is an executive function. We come across as cold, unfeeling--like Hastings says (Poirot BBC series), "ice cold logic". Of course, since it's our weak function, it isn't always very logical. But that's how we must extrovert with words. When not under stress, we may actually be logical, and we certainly can use it to good effect, but under stress, it goes out the window. :-( For you, that is just like grating fingers over a chalk board. For us, your weak Fe does the same... ouch...

But you know this, I suspect... The key? try talking less, and listening more. Also, try actions. I know you may not be comfortable, but just try doing things with her, sharing chores. If she likes music, listen to music while working together. What you want to do, as her daughter, is show her that you want to be with her for her sake. BTW, affirmation is accepting her as she is, not for what she does. So Fe expressions of praise tends to point out our weaknesses, rather than praising our strengths. So what you want to do is avoid expressions that you think point out good things we did/do. For instance, telling an ISFP that he performed that song really well, just reminds him that he missed a couple notes here, or rhythm there--things he is well aware of, but you may have missed, or chosen to overlook--but your praising him comes across as you patting a little kid on the head for playing chopsticks on the piano--regardless of how it sounded. So, affirmation basically says you appreciate a person for who they are. You accept them as they are. It's not easy, and is best, for an ISFP, at least, to do this with action--helping, like I said, or a little, hand-made gift that says it without words.

I'm going to be honest, it may be difficult for you to relate to this, and do it. Your weak point is Se--that's where you feel most vulnerable or easily attacked, so your attempts at this will feel to you like major failures, and you may be afraid to even step out and try it. But if my experience is any indication, she will be extremely grateful. Does she hold on to things you made her as a little child? Does she display them? I have on my cork board above my desk right now, a little piece of paper my daughter taped a rose petal to many years ago. At the time, it was full, and shaped like a heart. She drew a heart around that petal in pencil, and taped over it. And above, she wrote "For daddy". She was probably 8 or 9. She's 17 now. That is not the only thing I have--but I don't lightly throw these things away. My INTP wife, many years ago, wrote me a little daily journal for me to open, one page per day, while on a road trip I took. I kept that thing for years, and only lost it during a moving mixup. Do you crochet or knit or some such? These sorts of things are what speak to us most loudly.

I know you want to help your mom, but I think the best you can do at first, is to re-establish your own love for her.

One other thing. Have you read up on the inferior function for the ISFP? In the articles subsection here, is an article. I think it's currently in the top position. You might want to read that article. It's useful for helping to know how she responds to stress. Maybe if you understand that, you will better understand how you can react to her in a way that will defuse negative situations. Also, maybe if you feel safe enough, you could print it out and show it to her. It's part of a book that may be worth your purchasing. Maybe, if your mom reads that book she might view things differently. The book "Was that Really Me" by Naomi Quenk is written in a very approachable manner. She might like it, in fact. But to approach her, you might be best served by using yourself as the guinea pig/example. Read up on how you react to stress, learn what you can on how to deal with it, and use it to try to help you improve how you react to your mom. Then, share the book with her, about how you've learned from it, and ask her if she wants to read it. ;-) I don't know... she might find it manipulative, but at least, if there's something concrete there, she might be receptive. The more direct manner would be to just buy the book, and tell her you want her to read it for a different perspective on the MBTI that isn't yours. ;-) That may be better.

But honestly, it's really hard to know what to say. I'm just shooting from the hip here. I'm the ISFP, and my wife's the INTP, so our relationship doesn't match yours with your mom. I would just caution, however, against trying to change someone else, especially one's mother. Best to work on changing how you relate to others. I have found that understanding how my INTP wife thinks has made a huge difference to me. Since I'm such a subjective person (as are you, as an introverted judging type), having an objective perspective helps me see her behavior more objectively, and not react to _her_ (and her behavior). It really helps a lot. I see her behavior more as an outward expression of her perception and method of judging, and am able to separate the behavior from her as a person. That really helps--lots. Now, if only I could do the same towards myself--but I'm working on it...

 

[Toxicskippy]

I think that the first thing you might want to keep in mind is that your Fe expressions may actually be backfiring. We tend to react to overt expressions as suspicious. Bummer. I know, but that's how it is. And, to be honest, when an INTP does it, since it is your weak function, it _really_ can come off as insincere--whether you mean it or not.

For you, that is just like grating fingers over a chalk board. For us, your weak Fe does the same... ouch...

Also, try actions. I know you may not be comfortable, but just try doing things with her, sharing chores. If she likes music, listen to music while working together. What you want to do, as her daughter, is show her that you want to be with her for her sake.

So Fe expressions of praise tends to point out our weaknesses, rather than praising our strengths. So what you want to do is avoid expressions that you think point out good things we did/do. For instance, telling an ISFP that he performed that song really well, just reminds him that he missed a couple notes here, or rhythm there--things he is well aware of, but you may have missed, or chosen to overlook--but your praising him comes across as you patting a little kid on the head for playing chopsticks on the piano--regardless of how it sounded.

But if my experience is any indication, she will be extremely grateful. Does she hold on to things you made her as a little child? Does she display them?

At some points, I've seen my Fe backfire. I find it ridiculous sometimes when I am genuine. I'm not saying I lie when im not genuine, I just kind of stretch the emotion I portray in order to satisfy her. I guess thinking now, I'm not as good with Fe as I thought. I'm good with the icing of it, but when people try to get me to dig deeper into the cake that's when I stop and don't know what to do. Hahah sorry for that analogy.

I'm sure any attempts with my Fe seem very insincere to her because I typically switch to it randomly in order to keep things calm.
It probably doesn't help that I don't have much patience for her. In general, I don't have much patience for SF individuals (sorry.)

I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to accidentally pointing out weaknesses. I don't know how many times I've praised her for something only for her to say it "sucks" or I'm lying or she failed. I get so angry at this, because that's not what I'm saying at all. Even with my Fe, I come across very literal. I've attempted to explain to her that everything I say is pretty much to be taken in a literal sense, unless if it's sarcasm.
I had this debate with her for a while about helping the family out with money after my paychecks. I always said, "I don't mind." Which is true. In a literal sense, I don't mind. It's not an imposition. It's not a burden.
A few months later, I'm still saying it, she's still contests that I want to keep all my money for myself, so I finally got really upset because I had been telling her complete. literal. information. and she was not getting it. Then, she admitted that when I (or people in general say) "I don't mind." It actually means to her that they do. This was really stupid to me, because we went months arguing over this stupid little misconception (on both ends, not just hers, because I feel like I should have seen this coming.) And now, instead of saying "I don't mind." (when it comes to pretty much anything now...) I say "I'm glad to contribute." To her that is much better.
I don't really see the difference. |:

She does hold onto things I made as a child, or pictures taken of me then. I can understand that. It's nice, and I find it useful because I like to hold onto cherished things as well. I wouldn't say displays, though. We don't really display things family-wise. Had like one family picture.

I'm very grateful for your explanation! I will take it full-heartedly and see how I can apply what you've said to my relationship with my mother. It won't be easy, but I'll definitely keep this perspective of an ISFP in mind. I mean this genuinely. Hahah. I promise.

 

[ferroequinologist]

Then, she admitted that when I (or people in general say) "I don't mind." It actually means to her that they do. This was really stupid to me, because we went months arguing over this stupid little misconception (on both ends, not just hers, because I feel like I should have seen this coming.) And now, instead of saying "I don't mind." (when it comes to pretty much anything now...) I say "I'm glad to contribute." To her that is much better.
I don't really see the difference. |:

Oh my goodness!!! I so get what she's saying! What "I don't mind" typically says to me is that there is a reluctance--especially when it's said with a reluctant tone--which is usually how it's said, and also, when it's said after a discussion, or some form of appeal, or even a disagreement. If I were to ask, "can I have some of your coke?" and my wife says "I don't mind" my first thought would be that she's not eager. An "Of course!" or even "Why not?" make more sense to me than an "I don't mind." So, maybe the context or how you say it causes her pause. Fi-Se types are very sensitive to people's internal attitudes that way--but we can certainly misread, especially INTPs. ;-)

She does hold onto things I made as a child, or pictures taken of me then. I can understand that. It's nice, and I find it useful because I like to hold onto cherished things as well. I wouldn't say displays, though. We don't really display things family-wise. Had like one family picture.

I don't display so much either--it's a private little display in my office, which nobody really goes into besides myself.

 

[ster]

I back everything @ferroequinologist has said.

I had this debate with her for a while about helping the family out with money after my paychecks. I always said, "I don't mind." Which is true. In a literal sense, I don't mind. It's not an imposition. It's not a burden. A few months later, I'm still saying it, she's still contests that I want to keep all my money for myself, so I finally got really upset because I had been telling her complete. literal. information. and she was not getting it.

What prompted you to tell her that it's not a burden and that you don't mind? Did she ask?