[Benjiboy180]

Hello everyone! I would like to enlist the help of some of you wonderful people to help me in finalizing my fiance's type. As stated in the title, when she took the test it came up with inconclusive for I/E and N/S but was conclusive for FJ. I know typing people via a forum is difficult, but I am not convinced that she is so borderline in her personality that she doesn't have a distinct type.

Here is my assumption: I think she is an ENFJ (which is funny if you notice that I am an INTP). My reason for thinking this is as follows:
She loves hosting parties/events. Event planning is one career possibility she is looking in to. Though she can spend time alone, she would much rather spend time with people. Although she much prefers to have close friends as opposed to many acquaintances. She is incredibly structured and organized and has an incessant need to always have every minute detail of her (and my) life organized out to the letter.

My issues in typing her as such are these: she often has issues getting along with other people. She can be incredibly blunt and say things that don't often reflect what she actually thinks, but they come out in the wrong way. She is a barista at the moment and finds it difficult working with people all day. She is an incredible idealist. She is also incredibly private and hates it when people want to know things about her personally unless she has made the ok well in advance.

Anyway, I am sure some of you have tons of experience asking pointed questions that can elucidate her type. As I said I am mostly trying to distinguish between I/E and S/N. Thanks for any help you can provide in figuring out her type! She isn't very interested, but I really want to figure it out.

P.S. Does an inconclusive test in any of the four categories mean anything in particular, or did it just mean she wasn't as truthful and objective as she would like to be? She often says her personality is very situational, hence the difficulty in distinguishing type.

 

[LiquidLight]

She certainly could be an ENFJ or ESFJ for that matter, but there really isn't much here to say conclusively other than the fact that she is probably an extravert due to her discomfort with opening up to people about what's going on in her inner world.

 

[Benjiboy180]

Hmmm...interesting that that is an extroverted quality. I never really thought about it that way. But it totally makes sense. Those were the two that I was debating about. My best friend is an INFJ and he is much quieter and laid back than my fiance is. She is definitely a bit more controlling and concerned with things going her way (very much type A personality typically).

I didn't know if people had like pointed questions that I could answer to try to figure out the difference between the two or something. I know her really well, but I find it difficult to synthesize what I know into a type. Though the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to expect that she is an ESFJ.

 

[LiquidLight]

Well I'd look at Interaction Styles unless you have a decent knowledge of cognitive functions. I mean everything you point to is probably an ENFJ, but could also be an ESTJ or an ESTP too. Try this link and see if it helps Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles

 

[Benjiboy180]

I would say she most likely is a more In-Charge interaction style. The differences between some of them are a bit vague at times, but she definitely has her eye on the goal that she wants accomplished and works from there, controlling the situation and making sure things get there.

I will have to look back over the cognitive functions and see if I can figure anything else out from there.

 

[Coburn]

She certainly could be an ENFJ or ESFJ for that matter, but there really isn't much here to say conclusively other than the fact that she is probably an extravert due to her discomfort with opening up to people about what's going on in her inner world.

Why is that an extraverted quality and not an introverted one?

 

[LiquidLight]

Why is that an extraverted quality and not an introverted one?

Typically because the inner world is the mystery for Extraverts. Introverts are generally much more comfortable with their inner world and if someone brings up something about it, that is inconsistent with what they know, I think are more likely to spot the inconsistencies. It's sort of like someone who spends all day in his house, he probably knows the house really well.

One of the things I think that intrigues introverts is when something from the outside world matches their inner world, which is often so elusive. I think that's why the fascination with things like personality tests seems to favor introverts because for them its so rare for anything from the outside world to really translate into their inner world. One of the things I notice is that Introverts, when asked to talk about themselves often write entire autobiographies filled with details, one because its so rare for them to get to open up and two because they are convinced the inner world is so unique and elusive that it might be hard to translate outwardly.

In contrast Extraverts live in the world of the object not the subject. The extravert is the person who spends (metaphorically) all day out in the world, but rarely comes home and when they do come home the house is something of a mystery because they often spend so little time there. One of the things I've found is that if you start plunging too deeply into someone's personal life, or psychology with an extravert they will recoil quickly and see it as invasive. A lot of times they might strike back and say something like "you don't know me!" (an introvert might do this too, but generally its less defensive and more to correct a mistaken assumption). When it happens with the Extravert its often because you've hit a nerve (and that nerve is often their inferior function which will always be an Introverted function, so there is already a sensitivity around introversion for the extravert anyway).

One of the funny things that happens with Extraverts is that they spend so little time "at home" that when they do finally self-evaluate those experiences are often very personal and special to them and they mistake themselves for introverts. Because they say "well I feel like 'me' during these moments," but they don't realize they're not actually introverts those are just moments of introversion. The other 95% of the time they're off organizing business, looking at other people, pursuing possibilities, exploring the world, but not really turning their thoughts too robustly back on themselves. With extraverts the self is always downplayed and this is why there will be the discomfort with opening up to people, because on some level, self-investment is not as important as the extraverted things they feel compelled to. You can think of military service as the ultimate downplay of the self.

One of the interesting phenomenon in America is that America is a place that speaks highly of individualism. Individual liberties, freedoms, etc. But because this culture is so extraverted, we don't actually walk the walk that we talk. What happens is because we are so extraverted, many people feel a need to protect their individuality from the everyday vicissitudes of life (introverts would find this absurd, how could the real world take my individuality?) but you hear this kind of stuff all the time especially from ESTJ types who because of Inferior Fi have the double whammy of both downplaying their own values in favor of something conceptual (like paying bills or getting a good job, running a company, etc. notice how these aren't self-oriented things) and then because Fi is in the inferior there's a real sensitivity around those values and almost a selfishness or narcissism that can develop (sometimes never questioning values or wondering how anyone could see things differently). Again if you call someone out on this they'll snap at you and see it as invasive. The same thing might happen for the ESFJ or ESxPs who if you call them out on their poor thinking they'll fly off the handle at you. Just try to tell a Ne-dom to settle down and spend some time in self-reflection, for them its all about sniffing out the next thing, not settling down to decompress and self-evaluate.

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

One of the things I think that intrigues introverts is when something from the outside world matches their inner world, which is often so elusive. I think that's why the fascination with things like personality tests seems to favor introverts because for them its so rare for anything from the outside world to really translate into their inner world. One of the things I notice is that Introverts, when asked to talk about themselves often write entire autobiographies filled with details, one because its so rare for them to get to open up and two because they are convinced the inner world is so unique and elusive that it might be hard to translate outwardly.

I totally relate to all of this as an introvert, especially as an Ni dominant looong before I ever knew I was an Ni dominat and have thought and done basically everything mentioned here. I've noticed this about extraverts also and definitely suspect that there are a lot of extraverts mistyped as introverts here, based on what LL's getting at about extraverts being rather out-of-touch with their inner world, which I have noticed IRL also (I've always felt like I can only go so far with getting personal with so many of the extraverts I know IRL before the topic changes, or they just don't know how to respond to my more frequent self-referencing - sometimes, they treat me like I'm hypersensitive or something, which sounds like them projecting their inferior function onto me). It seems like I hear a lot of so-called "introverts" around here who get sensitive about getting personal or showing their personal investment in why they're here, which makes me suspect that many are mistyped. It has always amazed me that "introverts" around here in particular seem to have so much trouble figuring out that they are introverts, which makes me suspect that a great many of the people I'm getting at are probably extraverts. After all, if introverts are so often the "odd ones out" in US culture (which is where most of the forum's members are from), then why would these "introverts" have so much of an issue with deciding between introversion/extraversion, unless they are just really ignorant about what I/E means (and thus just rely on random behavior to draw conclusions about this) or denying their true nature for some reason. Sure, ambiversion is possible (I don't mean pure 50/50, btw, which is impossible), but at the end of the day, everyone has a preference, no matter how small it may seem.

 

[Donovan]

She certainly could be an ENFJ or ESFJ for that matter, but there really isn't much here to say conclusively other than the fact that she is probably an extravert due to her discomfort with opening up to people about what's going on in her inner world.

i can see that, but could you see a case of a dominant Fe-type breaking that mold just a little--that is, the "need" to connect or to harmonize based on the conditions of the situation which could lead one to being more open about their personal, inner world, and from there having that mind-set become learned approach to the outer world?

i would have thought (stereotypically, since this has to be broadened to even speak about) that a dominant Fe-type would be more against getting into the nitty-gritty and why's/why-not's of something than they would about how they perceive themselves (which would be based on an outer standard, therefore "right" and ironclad against any insecurity, the opposite of their inferior).

so i guess the question should be: what kind of questions does she not like to be asked? is this normal/is she always this way or do other factors come into play?

 

[LiquidLight]

i can see that, but could you see a case of a dominant Fe-type breaking that mold just a little--that is, the "need" to connect or to harmonize based on the conditions of the situation which could lead one to being more open about their personal, inner world, and from there having that mind-set become learned approach to the outer world?

i would have thought (stereotypically, since this has to be broadened to even speak about) that a dominant Fe-type would be more against getting into the nitty-gritty and why's/why-not's of something than they would about how they perceive themselves (which would be based on an outer standard, therefore "right" and ironclad against any insecurity, the opposite of their inferior).

so i guess the question should be: what kind of questions does she not like to be asked? is this normal/is she always this way or do other factors come into play?

It's true Feeling types will be more people oriented, however it's not always the case they will be as interested in opening up about themselves beyond their value system (which is objective anyway). One of the things that strikes me about dom-Fe especially ESFJs is how much they downplay their own thoughts on an issue. "What I think is unimportant," and when you press them they can get snippy. You see this in the people run off following say a religious, or political doctrine to the tee, but when you ask "okay what do you think," they immediately turn it around into "well so and so says, or the scripture reads.." or something non-subjective, but there is that discomfort with the self. You might hear them say "if this is what everyone says, who am I to say otherwise? I might be wrong." This is that characteristic downplay of their own thoughts and ability to conceptualize. I actually think dominant Fe and Te types hide behind Fe and Te (much moreso than Ne and Se-doms do) because they can use them as excuses to keep from revealing their inner world ("I'm doing what it takes to keep the lights on, or I follow what my faith or values dictate", etc). There's always this defaulting back to the external and objective rather than a real embrace of what's going on inside.

I think its exaggerated in Inferior Fi types who can really get into the "what I feel or think is none of your business," mold. There's that real unwillingness to open up about what's going on inside and a projection back onto the outside world.

 

[Benjiboy180]

You see this in the people run off following say a religious, or political doctrine to the tee, but when you ask "okay what do you think," they immediately turn it around into "well so and so says, or the scripture reads.." or something non-subjective, but there is that discomfort with the self. You might hear them say "if this is what everyone says, who am I to say otherwise? I might be wrong." This is that characteristic downplay of their own thoughts and ability to conceptualize.

That is funny that you mention that because she is DEFINITELY not like that. She has personal opinions GALORE and is not the least bit concerned about where these opinions came from, but is very strongly insistent that they are HERS. She is very independent in that way. She doesn't ever think about where her beliefs or convictions come from, only that she has them, they are hers, and they are correct. One thing I have noticed a lot is that she is very quick to make snap judgement about all sorts of things, from movies to cultures to places to food. If something doesn't fit her predetermined idea of "how things should be" or what normal things are, she immediately disregards it. For example, she is not used to Asian food (raised very European) and it just doesn't fit her expected idea of what food is like, thus anything that has any connection to Asian food is automatically lumped into the same category and shunned. That is until she is forced to try it (usually by me, ever the adventurous type and never willing to knock something without trying it) and then she might find she likes it.

Interesting idea that it is an inferior Fi that cringes at peoples' supposed "intrusions" into personal life plays a large role. She definitely finds my mother's incessant need to always be in the know about our lives and constant attention incredibly annoying, nosy and prying.

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

Interesting idea that it is an inferior Fi that cringes at peoples' supposed "intrusions" into personal life plays a large role. She definitely finds my mother's incessant need to always be in the know about our lives and constant attention incredibly annoying, nosy and prying.

You misinterpreted inferior Fi. That isn't inferior Fi (in fact, that would probably just be nothing, lol - who wouldn't find that annoying!?). Inferior Fi is in the context of the INDIVIDUALS' personal feelings and value judgements - it has nothing to do with the influence of other people. It's very resistant to the influences of other people in any way, shape, or form. Don't type the situation, type the person.

 

[Benjiboy180]

Hmmm...it wasn't my theory. I was simply saying it was an interesting thought. I quite honestly am still trying to understand the subtleties of the various functions.

 

[LiquidLight]

Hmmm...it wasn't my theory. I was simply saying it was an interesting thought. I quite honestly am still trying to understand the subtleties of the various functions.

LOL that might take a lifetime...but I think its safe to say your fiance is probably an ENFJ or ESFJ.

 

[Benjiboy180]

Ya, that is for sure...I am still going to try anyway! =P

Good to know. I had assumed those even before she took the test, but she's a bit hard to figure out sometimes, so I thought I would put it to the test here. Especially since people here seem to have a great grasp on some of those subtleties between types that I am still trying to figure out. Also, because her type is so different than mine, I have a hard time understanding it as I would one more similar. Thanks for your help!

 

[LiquidLight]

Well its no surprise that a Ti-dom would be attracted to a Fe-dom. I mean you guys are typological opposites so in some ways probably balance each other out. Wish you all the best of luck with her and the future.

 

[Benjiboy180]

Thanks!

And That is so true. We do balance each other out a lot! Like in almost every way. One of the few times that we don't is that often we are just too indecisive because she wants to be sensitive to what I want to do (eat, watch, do etc.) and I just don't care. =D

 

[OrangeAppled]

One thing I have noticed a lot is that she is very quick to make snap judgement about all sorts of things, from movies to cultures to places to food. If something doesn't fit her predetermined idea of "how things should be" or what normal things are, she immediately disregards it. For example, she is not used to Asian food (raised very European) and it just doesn't fit her expected idea of what food is like, thus anything that has any connection to Asian food is automatically lumped into the same category and shunned. That is until she is forced to try it (usually by me, ever the adventurous type and never willing to knock something without trying it) and then she might find she likes it.

This sounds like Si - they seek to maintain a sensory reality that is reliable to them, which often means preferring that which is familiar (tried and true). That way, they can predict the outcome & be prepared for it (which Je+Pi types like to do - control outcomes so as to be prepared for them, whereas Pe+Ji prefer to be flexible for whatever random way reality may develop). You could say all perceiving functions see patterns, and Si types tend to group them into what is sure & what is unsure. What is unsure tends to be rejected or avoided until it's made sure. There's a lot of comparing with what is known to what is immediately before them, to check for consistency, to see if it's reliable reality.

The Si type is the most likely to see the unknown as something negative & not to be trusted. They'll seek to familiarize themselves (often via facts) with something new as much as possible before venturing into it. With FeSi types (or SiFe) an opinion from a trusted, external source can rather easily persuade them to venture into the unknown though, along with factual details which explain something in terms that allows them to relate it to something known.

 

[Benjiboy180]

Wow that was really helpful! If what you say is true, and it all seems to make sense to me, then that adds to the idea that I think she is an ESFJ, as FeSi would be her dominant/auxiliary functions in that case.

There is just one thing that throws me off about her being an ESFJ. They are supposed to be supportive, nurturing and are concerned about fulfilling their role as a "good spouse." This is not exactly how I would describe her in our relationship. She is definitely supportive, but in a less obvious and vocal way. I wouldn't really refer to her as nurturing either. Also, she is very concerned that she not fit into the "good wife" category. Not that she doesn't want to be a good wife, but she will not and cannot sacrifice her goals and ambitions to be a traditional wife. In general, the overall feel I am getting from the ESFJ profile is that they are warm, loving and nurturing, natural mothering types, but she is scared to death of being a mother as she thinks she is too cold and aloof.

 

[Extraverted Delusion]

Being an INTP, what kind of context of social interaction do you find her responding to best most frequently? Does she like to talk about concepts and abstract ideas or is she more concrete and more about people and places? I find that the best indicator of S/N is found in the magnitude of discussion. N types are far more vague and idealistic whereas an S will be adept at pointing things out you may miss.