[Strife]

Hi everyone! this is my first post and I'm in need of help!

Please don't quote! intending to edit later:

Long story short :

I met this ESTp woman recently who I have grown to have feelings for, the more I have hung out with her the more her personality has grown on me.

The problem is, I don't know if she reciprocates my feelings, and I don't know if I should tell her. There are times when I think she likes me - she's playful with me, hits me, challenges me, compliments me on certain things (how I smell, how I look, how funny I am etc) but then other times she tells me about guys who hit on her, how cute another guy is, etc and this leads me to think she doesn't reciprocate.

Part of me wonders if shes like that with other guys too and it doesn't mean anything..

There's also another guy in the picture, and a tricky living situation which may be to my disadvantage.

I just don't know what to do, shes amazing but I am unsure as to her feelings towards me and don't feel confident enough to make a move without knowing. I have read the threads here on ESTp interest and haven't found them to be of much help - she does display signs of liking me, but I don't know if those signs mean anything for her as an ESTp - if I acted like she did, it would definitely be the case where I would want that person - however, I know ESTp work differently than me and are generally considered a flirtatious type so I don't know if that is going to be of much help.

So ESTps, and anyone familiar with them:

1.How can I tell if she likes me, if shes not just being flirtatious or playful for its own sake, that I'm special to me and she actually wants something with me as opposed to her having some innocent fun?

2. When and how should I tell her? She may have feelings for someone else too, but I feel as if my chest is going to explode with how I feel. I want to tell her, but if its better to hold off then I will.

If any of this helps:

1. I think she may like me because i managed to hurt her feelings :sad: through a generic joke I thought didn't mean much - and in retrospect I can see how it was mean but I didn't think it would have the impact on her to where she would tell me it was mean - she didn't fight back, she just told me it was mean in a somewhat hurt voice(I feel like such an asshole for this, so please no extra comments on it)

2. She has helped/ taken care of things(school related) for me without my asking - helped me plan my schedule

3. She put me as her phone background because she thought a pic of me she took looked cool

4. She has told me that I remind her of someone she used to date(not in those words )

+ the other stuff mentioned at the top...

Please Help Me;

I'm completely lost as to whats going on and what to do

Ahhh!

 

[poplife]

Don't expect full reciprocation on this subforum.

estps around the world are busy constructing life-sized exclamation bubbles to tape to their back.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

 

[StandardLawyer]

I think she likes you because 1) you managed on "teasing" her kinda and she didn't mind. 2) Taking her sweet time onto help you out. 3) Her background picture has YOU in it.

Number 4 is iffy here. She may be telling you that because she wants to know if youre true to yourself and keep your composure.You know, not trying to "impress" her in an oddly over exaggerated way.

She's telling you how Hot these guys are or mentioning it to you because she thinks your either that Gay Friendly Guy who is with her all the time or she's either testing you on how you react to her.

Dont worry about the "other" guys she's "supposedly" with. They might not be ANY guys. It's just a distraction. Stay focused and conquer.

Play it cool and try to be on her level of energy because if you're like -slow- then you'll be that Guy who Listens while she talks about other guys.

Keep doing what youre doing and live your life.

 

[scude]

Hello there,

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you but the most helpful thing I've found to understanding an ESTP's psyche was this: "And there's a thing you have to get about me, I'm always exploring my options and keep them open, it's just how I am." In those lines also, I am too young to compromise my dreams and need for freedom.

I once thought ESTP was interested in me, but it was just flirt. And hell, I am one of the most least likely people to assume things... But apparently it can happen. I almost feel like blaming him though for THINKING that way, I mean, he was insanely indirectly direct and there's no way anyone could've thought any different than I did. That's how "good" they are. (Or just, you know, bad).

Hm, I'd be curious to know why ESTP would flirt with someone they like and want to be good friends with? But then again, don't they flirt with everyone?

Good luck! I'd say flirt and tease him right back with your special INFP powers that leave her defenseless I'm sure, but also try not to assume things, just try and take it all in a jest. Just have fun and if you really like her try to understand it from her pov; just have fun with it and go with the flow, see where it goes. Just be yourself, but don't be fooled. If the ESTP chick really digs you, she'll try harder. And harder.

Just don't let those incredible powers of seduction fool you. And if you won't, she'll like you even more. (Just my own interpretation).

 

[Psilocin]

Man, not gonna lie, I think you're in the friendzone.

Jus' do what you do.
When you get up the nuts, ask her out.

 

[elvis2010]

No offense, Strife, but you are asking us how she feels, and you should be asking her. If you are uneasy about being that direct, than ask one of her friends. Good luck!! I hope it turns out she likes you.

 

[StandardLawyer]

....

Hm, I'd be curious to know why ESTP would flirt with someone they like and want to be good friends with? But then again, don't they flirt with everyone?
....

some of my friends think I'm always 'flirting' with everyone, its ridiculous. Maybe because I spend more time than I need to when I'm talking with them, but cmon, i think everyone needs to feel special everyday.
That's another thing, people need attention and people mistakenly think its flirting. I do it, i do it on purpose because I like making people smile to a point where I know where we get super friendly.

For Strife's situation, maybe its better to ask if she likes Strife or not

 

[Strife]

Thanks for all the replies so far

Hello there,

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you but the most helpful thing I've found to understanding an ESTP's psyche was this: "And there's a thing you have to get about me, I'm always exploring my options and keep them open, it's just how I am." In those lines also, I am too young to compromise my dreams and need for freedom.

I once thought ESTP was interested in me, but it was just flirt. And hell, I am one of the most least likely people to assume things... But apparently it can happen. I almost feel like blaming him though for THINKING that way, I mean, he was insanely indirectly direct and there's no way anyone could've thought any different than I did. That's how "good" they are. (Or just, you know, bad).

Hm, I'd be curious to know why ESTP would flirt with someone they like and want to be good friends with? But then again, don't they flirt with everyone?

Good luck! I'd say flirt and tease him right back with your special INFP powers that leave her defenseless I'm sure, but also try not to assume things, just try and take it all in a jest. Just have fun and if you really like her try to understand it from her pov; just have fun with it and go with the flow, see where it goes. Just be yourself, but don't be fooled. If the ESTP chick really digs you, she'll try harder. And harder.

Just don't let those incredible powers of seduction fool you. And if you won't, she'll like you even more. (Just my own interpretation).

Yeah, I absolutely get that - she's an enneagram 7 after all

The being myself part is what I've been trying to do - she seems really comfortable with me, and we haven't even known each other for that long - and I don't mean comfortable in the sense of her saying anything she wants around me, I know estp's are like this with everyone - however she has told me things that she doesn't want her close friends knowing so that's a plus? lol.

Its been smooth until recently - the more feelings I've grown for her, the more sensitive I've gotten at some of her remarks and it makes my mood swing a little, makes me cut off from her. It's been a problem for me, trying to work on it.

Man, not gonna lie, I think you're in the friendzone.

Jus' do what you do.
When you get up the nuts, ask her out.

lol, yeah i think I am too, but that's okay.

I think the friend zone is one of the better places to be honestly - seems counter productive but its actually pretty effective if there's attraction present.

I do question this though, I don't really know if estp's have 'friend zones' like other people - more like 'what feels right' zones - lol!

No offense, Strife, but you are asking us how she feels, and you should be asking her. If you are uneasy about being that direct, than ask one of her friends. Good luck!! I hope it turns out she likes you.

no offense taken, I appreciate raw honesty!

the thing is, I don't want her friends telling her haha.

I think I'm going to start dropping more subtle hints or something, still thinking about what to do.

appreciate the kind thoughts, thank you

some of my friends think I'm always 'flirting' with everyone, its ridiculous. Maybe because I spend more time than I need to when I'm talking with them, but cmon, i think everyone needs to feel special everyday.
That's another thing, people need attention and people mistakenly think its flirting. I do it, i do it on purpose because I like making people smile to a point where I know where we get super friendly.

For Strife's situation, maybe its better to ask if she likes Strife or not

Yeah, I actually have an ESTp friend who always seems like he's flirting even when he's not - the question that's plaguing my mind is what would you only do for people you would want a relationship with/get intimate with? I have heard that ESTp get shy around people they REALLY like, and are more bold with people they don't like as much - to an INFP like me, it just seems like you do everything backwards!

:crazy:

 

[njchick]

She talks about other guys because she still single and likes to keeps her options open. She's not going to sit around waiting for you to make a move. I have no idea if she likes you, I can say that I was more flirtatious with guys that were players or ones I just had a just a sexual attraction for but I usually became more reserved around a guy I really liked until I got the cue that his feelings were reciprocal. I would have to get the green light to go.

My opinion, I think it better you not just come out with all these gushy feelings being you are friends and it may complicate things in her mind. Be confident, tell her you want to take your friendship to another level but if she's not cool then you can still be friends. Plan to take her on a really fun date then see if the natural progression of a relationship grows.

 

[prilapril]

I have heard that ESTp get shy around people they REALLY like, and are more bold with people they don't like as much

haha thats so true .

im an enneagram 7 aswell , in my opinion i think that yeah you're in the friendzone , but i personally wont go that far if its just a flirt . maybe she's confused about the friendship future . because ive been there and i turned out decided just to be friend , but somewhat i felt like i couldnt help myself , so i flirted a little (i know, but its me being honest)

i agree that it'd be best if you just tell her and ask her about ur feelings and confusion ,prepare your best words for the worst that if its just her being flirtatious, so you guys can still be friends. dont overthink or assume too much, because we often mistaken for flirting because of being friendly or too kind . goodluck

 

[Seralya]

I think I'm going to start dropping more subtle hints or something, still thinking about what to do.

Erh. What kind of hints do you mean? As far as I understand, the iNtuition is the ESTPs' weakest point. They're goddamned good to read you to know what's going on, but reading between lines is a lost art form to them.

If you manage to drop sensory hints, then maybe, but I have no idea how that could be made subtle.

Edit after checking this up with an ESTP:

Be confident, tell her you want to take your friendship to another level but if she's not cool then you can still be friends.

This. Be honest. Ask/tell her when you're both having good time. (As creatures of the present time it will better your chances to present new ideas in nice surroundings when things are fine than doing it behind a trash can in a trashy alley.)


Apparently not telling her and still having fantasies of her might be seen as dishonesty. ESTPs want to know what's going on and be able to react to that directly.

 

[TreeBob]

Erh. What kind of hints do you mean? As far as I understand, the iNtuition is the ESTPs' weakest point. They're goddamned good to read you to know what's going on, but reading between lines is a lost art form to them.

If you manage to drop sensory hints, then maybe, but I have no idea how that could be made subtle.

We can read between the lines but our issue is we don't trust what we read. We see and assume it means X but then we go " I need him/her to confirm that to me before I believe it"

 

[Seralya]

The data on the lines is relevant, the data between is not?

Yeah. But what I tried to say was that if the ESTP can't read the person, for example, if the discussion is done in writing (emails, chat etc) the stuff between the lines kinda stays there. I have been trying to explain an ESTP the real meaning of texts written by a NF and what I got was a blank look.

 

[TreeBob]

The data on the lines is relevant, the data between is not?

Yeah. But what I tried to say was that if the ESTP can't read the person, for example, if the discussion is done in writing (emails, chat etc) the stuff between the lines kinda stays there. I have been trying to explain an ESTP the real meaning of texts written by a NF and what I got was a blank look.

Read what I wrote here. I think it sums up what we are both talking about.

http://personalitycafe.com/estp-forum-doers/9386-extraverted-sensing.html#post630358

 

[thefistofreality]

She talks about other guys because she still single and likes to keeps her options open. She's not going to sit around waiting for you to make a move. I have no idea if she likes you, I can say that I was more flirtatious with guys that were players or ones I just had a just a sexual attraction for but I usually became more reserved around a guy I really liked until I got the cue that his feelings were reciprocal. I would have to get the green light to go.

My opinion, I think it better you not just come out with all these gushy feelings being you are friends and it may complicate things in her mind. Be confident, tell her you want to take your friendship to another level but if she's not cool then you can still be friends. Plan to take her on a really fun date then see if the natural progression of a relationship grows.

She's got it right on cue, buddy. I'm the same way, if it's a guy I know is just a player or I know I'm just interested in for the short-term, I flirt my ass off. When it comes to a guy I actually like, I'm a little more reserved and less blunt about it. I don't know why that happens, it just does.

I mean, just balls up and ask her man. She'll appreciate the honesty (trust me, we all do) but if it's just not want she wants she'll let you know and continue to be your friend. And if it is what she wants, well there ya go.

 

[Strife]

I know no ESTP here wants to read this, and you probably all have your rationalizations for this ready to go but maybe for anyone else dealing with estp here it goes:

I told her and she told me she likes me better as a friend. she told me she has shit to deal with(the details of which I'm not going to go into, but their legit). She asked me about what I expected her reaction to be, she of course wanted to stay friends.

Here's my thing:

Usually when I tell someone something really honest, I feel great about it after because its like I'm discharging emotion and all the honesty, intensity, and everything pours out. This was different, very different. Everyone kept telling me how it was better to tell her than to not to, but on some very deep level I don't accept this. In fact, what it REALLY feels like is that I got played for fool.

So this is what I figured out about ESTP's 7s, which include a lot of you in this thread - you are essentially selfish people who will flirt to make people into you, to make them admire you and love you, at the expense of their feelings towards you. Meaning, whats important for you is to feel emotions of people towards you, and you will lead them on, play with their emotions, in order to get them to.

It's not malicious, it's not intentional, but it's inconsiderate and how you naturally are as people. In many cases I can see how its in good fun - what I feel makes this situation different is that I told her about how I had trouble trusting people and she led me to believe that we were close - this wasn't something 'picked up' indirectly, it was a very direct statement by her.

So, yeah, I felt that she should have cared about my emotions more, made an attempt to spare it. She told me she knew what I was going to say but prodded me to say it anyway. Maybe she would rather have things out in the open, so that's why she did it - I don't know. Now after re-evaluating things, I can say that yes she did throw signals at me, and went over the top as far as 'friendship' lines go.

Now she just wants to stay friends, wants to keep using me - that's essentially what this feels like, and what it is. I don't know how I feel about that, but I'm slightly hurt and angry. More so angry. I'm understanding of her mentality - but only to a point. Actions have consequences.

Fuck if I'm going to be a tool she uses to masturbate her self-esteem on.

 

[Derosa90]

I know no ESTP here wants to read this, and you probably all have your rationalizations for this ready to go but maybe for anyone else dealing with estp here it goes:

I told her and she told me she likes me better as a friend. she told me she has shit to deal with(the details of which I'm not going to go into, but their legit). She asked me about what I expected her reaction to be, she of course wanted to stay friends.

Here's my thing:

Usually when I tell someone something really honest, I feel great about it after because its like I'm discharging emotion and all the honesty, intensity, and everything pours out. This was different, very different. Everyone kept telling me how it was better to tell her than to not to, but on some very deep level I don't accept this. In fact, what it REALLY feels like is that I got played for fool.

So this is what I figured out about ESTP's 7s, which include a lot of you in this thread - you are essentially selfish people who will flirt to make people into you, to make them admire you and love you, at the expense of their feelings towards you. Meaning, whats important for you is to feel emotions of people towards you, and you will lead them on, play with their emotions, in order to get them to.

It's not malicious, it's not intentional, but it's inconsiderate and how you naturally are as people. In many cases I can see how its in good fun - what I feel makes this situation different is that I told her about how I had trouble trusting people and she led me to believe that we were close - this wasn't something 'picked up' indirectly, it was a very direct statement by her.

So, yeah, I felt that she should have cared about my emotions more, made an attempt to spare it. She told me she knew what I was going to say but prodded me to say it anyway. Maybe she would rather have things out in the open, so that's why she did it - I don't know. Now after re-evaluating things, I can say that yes she did throw signals at me, and went over the top as far as 'friendship' lines go.

Now she just wants to stay friends, wants to keep using me - that's essentially what this feels like, and what it is. I don't know how I feel about that, but I'm slightly hurt and angry. More so angry. I'm understanding of her mentality - but only to a point. Actions have consequences.

Fuck if I'm going to be a tool she uses to masturbate her self-esteem on.

If that's how you honestly feel about her than why bother with her? I can see where you're coming from when saying we're (maybe just me) selfish...to an extent. Now, I am nice to people and I do compliment people. And I'm also a playful person because that's just me. I don't second guess when I play around with a person..It's just fun to me. And if the other person is having fun, then why not? If a girl takes that sort of behavior as me wanting to get with her, then maybe she's reading too much into it. I make it known if I want to go further with a person. I do hold back a little more with her and I'm more personal with her. It sounds like she's different in that aspect. If she told you some things that made you think she wanted to have a relationship with you, then you have all the right in the world to be mad at her. But are you sure you weren't reading too much into it?

 

[njchick]

I know no ESTP here wants to read this, and you probably all have your rationalizations for this ready to go but maybe for anyone else dealing with estp here it goes:

I told her and she told me she likes me better as a friend. she told me she has shit to deal with(the details of which I'm not going to go into, but their legit). She asked me about what I expected her reaction to be, she of course wanted to stay friends.

Here's my thing:

Usually when I tell someone something really honest, I feel great about it after because its like I'm discharging emotion and all the honesty, intensity, and everything pours out. This was different, very different. Everyone kept telling me how it was better to tell her than to not to, but on some very deep level I don't accept this. In fact, what it REALLY feels like is that I got played for fool.

So this is what I figured out about ESTP's 7s, which include a lot of you in this thread - you are essentially selfish people who will flirt to make people into you, to make them admire you and love you, at the expense of their feelings towards you. Meaning, whats important for you is to feel emotions of people towards you, and you will lead them on, play with their emotions, in order to get them to.

It's not malicious, it's not intentional, but it's inconsiderate and how you naturally are as people. In many cases I can see how its in good fun - what I feel makes this situation different is that I told her about how I had trouble trusting people and she led me to believe that we were close - this wasn't something 'picked up' indirectly, it was a very direct statement by her.

So, yeah, I felt that she should have cared about my emotions more, made an attempt to spare it. She told me she knew what I was going to say but prodded me to say it anyway. Maybe she would rather have things out in the open, so that's why she did it - I don't know. Now after re-evaluating things, I can say that yes she did throw signals at me, and went over the top as far as 'friendship' lines go.

Now she just wants to stay friends, wants to keep using me - that's essentially what this feels like, and what it is. I don't know how I feel about that, but I'm slightly hurt and angry. More so angry. I'm understanding of her mentality - but only to a point. Actions have consequences.

Fuck if I'm going to be a tool she uses to masturbate her self-esteem on.

Wow, that's rough. Unless she screwed you, then ignored you or said she likes you to get something, I don't think she can be accused of deliberately leading you on.

I enjoy being with guys more than girls. Girl conversation sucks so we tend to feel very comfortable around guys, able to be relaxed.

As far as ESTP, 7s go, once we found out there wasn't a chance for romance we most likely have no issues moving forward as friends as we don't get offended easily. We'd move onto someone else for romance and remain friends with you. There's obviously something about your friendship that made her comfortable enough to open up. She shouldn't be branded a selfish, teasing bitch for that.

Why not just enjoy what you get out of being her friend?

 

[Seralya]

You asked ESTPs what to do and got an ESTP answer: "ask her and she'll tell you". Then you went, asked her and she told you.
And you got hurt.

Bear in mind that ESTPs react to the reality and can't really read between the lines (in text). Maybe you asked them the wrong question in the first place? Maybe the INFP forum could have given you answer to whatever it was you really wanted to know..?

 

[Strife]

If that's how you honestly feel about her than why bother with her? I can see where you're coming from when saying we're (maybe just me) selfish...to an extent. Now, I am nice to people and I do compliment people. And I'm also a playful person because that's just me. I don't second guess when I play around with a person..It's just fun to me. And if the other person is having fun, then why not? If a girl takes that sort of behavior as me wanting to get with her, then maybe she's reading too much into it. I make it known if I want to go further with a person. I do hold back a little more with her and I'm more personal with her. It sounds like she's different in that aspect. If she told you some things that made you think she wanted to have a relationship with you, then you have all the right in the world to be mad at her. But are you sure you weren't reading too much into it?

Yeah, I get what your saying - but I don't think its the case where its just 'that person' misinterpreting - when you cross friendship boundaries that are 'common sense' or widely known to be the case, then its likely that the other person will interpret it as more precisely because of that. Its something that's pretty obvious and if care is there, should be considered for the other person. Those are just my values though, I suppose I shouldn't expect others to have them. I do though. bah.

Even with the stuff your mentioning now, she did some of that - the personal thing. I'm sure, I triple checked, I'm not the kind of person who just assumes things like this - if anything I'm overly skeptical.

As for bothering w her, good question.

I may not soon enough.

Wow, that's rough. Unless she screwed you, then ignored you or said she likes you to get something, I don't think she can be accused of deliberately leading you on.

I enjoy being with guys more than girls. Girl conversation sucks so we tend to feel very comfortable around guys, able to be relaxed.

As far as ESTP, 7s go, once we found out there wasn't a chance for romance we most likely have no issues moving forward as friends as we don't get offended easily. We'd move onto someone else for romance and remain friends with you. There's obviously something about your friendship that made her comfortable enough to open up. She shouldn't be branded a selfish, teasing bitch for that.

Why not just enjoy what you get out of being her friend?

yeah, I'm definitely not accusing her of that - it wasn't deliberate, I know that.

As far as friendship goes, I'm sure that's what she wants - the problem is its not a fair exchange. she gets to keep me around so she can have her giggles, but my emotions aren't going to subside..its going to be more painful being with her than pleasant - I have to distance myself in order to re-align myself, its just how I work. I already have friends I enjoy, and friends who give me similar things that she provides - my interest in her is mainly romantic, in any other case its hard to see a place for her in my life.


Anywho, thanks for your responses everyone.

I really do appreciate it, just a little bitter at the moment(lol!) but I wouldn't have had the guts to do it without the added weight of responses here

you guys are awesome <3