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And in particular, how and when and with whom did you learn to lie to protect people's feelings. As an ENTP lying like that is ... bad. Doesn't lying feel bad and how did you overcame that?
I don't lie to protect anyone's feelings. And neither does my entp so.

Anyways, here is a handy step by step guide to help NT's get in touch with their emotions.

Step 1- Post something saying you are very complex, and no one understands you

Step 2- Watch as other people make posts saying you're not really that complex or misunderstood.

Step 3- Cry.

It's really that simple! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I find that the criticism I hate most from Ti types is when they tell me that a reaction I'm having to something is _________. I dated an INTJ for a very brief period, and one of the biggest issues we had is that he would want to read my writing to give me critique but I didn't feel comfortable with that just yet. Instead of understanding and moving on he pushed at me, and then when I refused he would critique the fact that I wouldn't let him see my work, saying:

"You must not think it's very good if you won't let me see it. Let me help you out."
"You're going to have to learn how to let people see your work if you want to succeed in writing as a career."
"You get offended easily."

The critique of the fact that I didn't want him to read my work made me angry, because it felt like he was telling me that my way of feeling was wrong, and I should act more rational (like him). While all the things he said were technically true, none of them made me want to trust him with my writing, which is very intimate to me.

He was critiquing me as a person, my emotions, my ability to reach my goals, etc. He was doing it all as an attempt to get me to do something he wanted me to do, and instead he lost me completely because I got so tired of being pushed and criticized.
This story rang so many bells :)
Btw, I like and respect INTJs, work well with them. The J kind of rubs me the wrong way sometimes cause they are unwilling to stop, reevaluate and adjust as I'd do it :) But also helps them get things done, so ... And I find them really cold sometimes when they make a rational decision and don't take people's feelings into consideration and stick to it. Nice folk.

The story you've shared is really inspiring. This is such a common issue and exactly what I am talking about. Thank you for sharing this painful xp. Hope it helps if I say ... the way u describe it ... I honestly think he was trying to help ... and was attacking your chosen behaviour or belief ... not you as a person ... but like me probably didn't know how to relate to feelers. Behaviours or believes, especially my own, if not efficient or morally right are ruthlessly changed :) I like it, it gives me pleasure to make myself efficient. I expect people to do what ur INTJ was doing and feel offended when they don't. They help me grow. If they don't - they don't care about me and just want to tell me what I want to hear so as to like them=manipulation. Hate that. So enfps or other E feelers I distrust, yet need help to become more like the very people I distrust ... u see my anguish here. There must be another way ... a new way ... that I'll invent :) lol, dumb MBTI, so right sometimes pisses me off :)

PS I feel bad 4 him, if he rly wanted to help, made all the effort, sacrificed his interests (manipulating u into liking him) for your own (achieving ur dreams of being a great writer?). Wouldn't it be easier 4 him to say "good job", not rly listen or read it and not rly think about it and just enjoy his life? Probably does it everyday with people he doesn't care about. And got punished for caring in his cold rational way (the only way he knows). Or, I can be completely wrong here and he was a scumbag and didn't deserve u :) Anything is possible, we are all Ps :) But honestly, u enfps are sooo cruel with people's feelings sometimes :( INTJs have feelings too. - my Fe in action :)

Eerie
Step 3 ... does not work with entps i'd guess. I lol hard. The whole life is so funny, its hard not to lol all the time in the most inappropriate moments.
I cry sometimes. Mostly for other people (?) I felt sad 4 the INTJ in the story but if it happens to me wont be so sad - that's the retarded part of my functions and non-existent Fi. I literally ask myself aloud "how do I fell ... uhm ... let me see ...". U know a better way? share. Cause ur point 3 is not working for me :( I am trying and its not working.

Be Happy! :) Thank u all!
 

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I honestly think he was trying to help ... and was attacking your chosen behaviour or belief ... not you as a person ... but like me probably didn't know how to relate to feelers.
I have no doubt he thought he was trying to help. Intentions don't always matter. I told him I wasn't comfortable doing something personal, and instead of respecting that and letting me decide what I wanted to do for myself, he decided that what he wanted from me was more important that my own personal boundaries. He did this in other ways, too, not unkindly.

He wanted something from me and he thought he could convince me to give it to him by using the right arguments, instead of just being there for me without ulterior motives and letting me decide for myself when I wanted to trust him.

Probably one of the problems you have with NFs is that we read ulterior motives, although we're sometimes wrong and we often assume the worst. We react, not to what you do or say, but what we perceive as your motives - often incorrectly. And we don't always like feeling as if we're being told we should be less like ourselves and more like you. ENFPs in particular are very independent-minded, and don't like being told to be one way if they want to be another.

If I had wanted him to read my screenplay and critique it, he would have. The end.
 

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And we don't always like feeling as if we're being told we should be less like ourselves and more like you. ENFPs in particular are very independent-minded, and don't like being told to be one way if they want to be another.
Lol, we don't like to be told what to do in general :p
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Lol, we don't like to be told what to do in general :p
Me neither. I just love to be told what my weaknesses and mistakes are so I improve :)

So ifyouwishto, you are saying a NT needs to first express approval, acceptance and even admiration for the NF and their efforts and then offer objective help to improve (criticize)? I sometimes skip this :( because in my mind the fact I even think means I respect. If I didn't respect the person/idea I wouldn't care to "help". Or it's better to never go to stage two and stay at stage one to help the F by providing emotional support?

Won't the NF view this as emotional manipulation and retaliate? I would but I am NT so ... I am trying to understand how u guys feel about this because for me it feels wrong. And I know my attitude is wrong but find it hard to change how I feel about it :)
 

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Lying - I'm a pretty good liar. I feel bad about it, but not enough to ruin my sleep or anything. I personally don't lie to other people to save their feelings or anything, though. This is probably because, as some of you may feel yourselves, i know that their knowing the truth is for the better. I'm not really sympathetic. I'm empathetic. I will put myself in their shoes and see where they're coming from and for the most part, become very indifferent and cold. This is because they are usually too emotional at the moment to see that what i'm telling them is for their own good. So, yeah. Will i lie to save my own ass? Damn right. Will i lie to others so that they think that everything's going to be okay when it's not? Hell no.

O: I sound a little heartless .. Sorry ~ I get like that sometimes. ( :

On a different note, do i seem like an ENFP? I used to be ENFJ and i've recently gotten an ENTP result while i act very INTJ at home due to the fact that my family is just irritating to me. I was wondering if there was an explanation to why i may have different results. I'm honest when i take the test and i'm not going through personality "phases" or anything. Just curious. O:
 
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