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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?

What drives me: long term achievement where I see a point, a purpose to it and effort has to be put in to excel in it and this is also often driven by competitiveness.

What I look for: special and reliable connection in close relationship (including the emotional side of it).


2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?

Greater achievement: for a purpose that's good for society. (This one is less about competitiveness.)


3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?

I avoid failure, loss of control, giving up. I also avoid wallowing in self-defeating sensitive touchy-feely feelings. I also don't like losing things I already got. And I avoid being taken advantage of.

Main values (in no particular order):

1. Self-respect.
2. Objectivity and things that follow from that: impartiality, fairness.
3. Achievement with excelling and the patience and persistence to get there.
4. Having control over things in general and never giving up despite difficulties/obstacles.


4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?

(In the following order.) Losing control. Giving up. Failure. Losing what I already got.


5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?

In general I do prefer to look attractive and as someone who's got achievements. But this is more about my drives, and beyond this I used to have no conscious awareness of how I may be seen. For some reason I was avoiding to even think of that topic. Since then I've decided that I want to be seen as fair, not inconsistent in any unfair way, and to be respected for that.

I see myself as paying great attention to doing things and to thinking in this way but also as impulsive with anger to a degree. I'm not quite decided on whether I can or should stay this way. It's hard to not want some acting out of the anger, but then in some situations it can also make things bad for me or maybe for others (I'd rather not think of that though).


6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

Best: at work - having got good enough achievements. In general, when I have control over the process of doing things.

Worst: in emotional stuff in relationships.


7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.

Anger: it's quite visceral. I can indulge in/feel addicted to the intensity. Part of why I get a bit impulsive. I do control its intensity and expression though to a degree. Overall I easily and often get angry or at least irritated or annoyed or frustrated, sometimes outright rage too. That's all ok except frustration, I really can't hold that in well and have to get rid of it as quick as possible by solving the issue that got in the way or by acting it out. For plain anger/annoyance I just need to focus on problem solving in general to get by but I do have to solve it and better sooner than later.

Shame: I don't think I experience this one directly. I do want to avoid looking bad if that counts, but if someone tries to judge me in a bad way where I don't see it as warranted, I quite easily oppose them both internally and externally instead of feeling ashamed.

Anxiety: I don't strongly experience this one, it's rather vague-ish if even there.


8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.

Stress: if impersonal situation, I just do problem solving, keep putting in the effort, keep at pushing things if needed. If personal situation, I'm very bad with it. I respond with nothing initially, then later anger when I manage to make a judgment about the issue. But at that point I'm able to go back to problem solving mode.

Unexpected change: I have to readjust, I can do this quickly if I see easily how to do that or it can take a long time and that gets frustrating.

Conflict: same answer as with the stress section. To elaborate a bit on it, I'm ok with showing some anger but then it has to be constructive problem solving or the whole thing including the anger will become pointless.


9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?

Authority as a position for someone for directing things is naturally necessary. It comes with power but also high responsibility. I don't mind that however, it's a good thing. When I'm the authority I pay attention to this and to not being wrong, which can be slightly stressful but it's OK. The sense of having the power with it is quite good too. Then when I'm not the authority, I tend to see myself as equal in judgment to the authority's judgment, but I know how to behave properly with the authority in power if I must.

Power: just the ability to influence or direct things. Control is important and when you are able to influence and direct things in the way you want to is when you have control. I do like to take charge for things in some situations. The follower mindset without thinking for oneself is foreign to me.


10. Comment on your relationship with trust.

You can practically trust something or someone if it/he/she has proven its/his/her reliability. Emotional connection also requires a type of trust that seems to be more based in feelings and can open you up to hurt. I can easily determine the former. I don't really like to deal with the latter, it's difficult at least.


11. Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

1. To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
2. To be without needs, well-intentioned
3. To replace direct experience with concepts
4. To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
5. To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
6. To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
7. To overuse imagination in searching for yourself
8. To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
9. To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient


1. I sort of push myself a lot, to work and to have consistency. And since some of this is for achievements then "being the best" is sort of applicable. In terms of the drive for excelling.
2. No, I find being well-intentioned important, but I acknowledge some needs fine, so I relate less to this one.
3. I don't think I like to do this, I don't like to detach from experience/action, but in a limited area in my life I think I have done this about some feelings related things.
4. I have a sense of obligation fine for some things. I wouldn't know if extreme or if personal. The phrasing on the whole feels off to me because of that.
5. No, I don't relate to chasing dreams like that.
6. No, I decide on my own.
7. No, I don't have much imagination like this.
8. No, I have my principles on not avoiding conflict and issues and instead resolve them. Asserting myself is fine with my own judgments on things.
9. I see society as more important than that statement implies but I'm of course self-sufficient in terms of leading my own life and making my own decisions.
 

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Not a lot to go one but I'd guess off the top of my head 3, maybe 378 tritype.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Not a lot to go one but I'd guess off the top of my head 3, maybe 378 tritype.
Thanks for the input :)

Can you say what enneagram 3 themes you are seeing that are defining enough? What would help in seeing this more clearly? I mean, I can add more info on parts if needed.

I'm between 1 and 3 actually for myself. I have the achievement oriented style that both 1 and 3 seem to share but I'm not sure beyond that.

I'm nowhere near as extraverted as 378 tritype but that was an interesting suggestion heh.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@Paradigm - I hope you don't mind me mentioning you here, but since you were discussing 1 vs 3 in the other thread, I wondered if you could give your perspective on my questionnaire since that's exactly the two types I am in between.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Updating the original post:

In the last question, "8. No, I have my principles on not avoiding conflict and issues and instead resolve them. Asserting myself is fine with my own judgments on things."

It's more complete this way: "No, I have my principles on not avoiding conflict and issues and instead resolve them. Asserting myself is fine with my own judgments on things. By default I have the instinctual drive anyway to confront or attack instead of giving in. Easy to get angry and all that, too, lol."
 

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@Paradigm - I hope you don't mind me mentioning you here, but since you were discussing 1 vs 3 in the other thread, I wondered if you could give your perspective on my questionnaire since that's exactly the two types I am in between.
Sure, no problem :) I mind only if the person I'm helping won't help themselves, and you don't seem like that sort at all.

I can see why you'd have trouble between the two types. I would say either 1w2 or 3w4, and not SOC-last.

Did you see the long post I wrote in that thread? 1 and 3 share the Competency triad, but beyond that they can be very different.

Are you very critical of yourself and/or others?
How do you react if someone points out how you are wrong or inconsistent?
What happens if you decide something is reliable/trustworthy and it ends up not being so?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Sure, no problem :) I mind only if the person I'm helping won't help themselves, and you don't seem like that sort at all.

I can see why you'd have trouble between the two types. I would say either 1w2 or 3w4, and not SOC-last.
Thanks :) Yeah, as for instincts, I think I'm either soc or sx.


Did you see the long post I wrote in that thread? 1 and 3 share the Competency triad, but beyond that they can be very different.
I saw that post yeah and been thinking about it. The bit on how 1s don't have to be that moral by society's standard was interesting. I noticed e.g. my concept of respect is different in some ways from some societal standards, though it's also somewhat aligned with those. The other bit I found interesting was about 3s actually having an inner self heh.

And yes, I'm definitely in the Competency triad but I also noticed both 1 and 3 care about achievement in a way, so I think I need to delve more into the differences in how they care about achievement. If you have any thoughts on that, I'd be interested. You did word it in this way for 3s: "3s do tend to focus on being super-awesome at whatever they think they need to be". I focus on being very good and beating others too, yeah, and I can brag about it a bit : p but is there any other layer of meaning to "super-awesome" here?

You also said, "A 1 is more aware of how their actions affect others - or themselves / their conscience - because of being a Superego type; a 3 is more concerned with things like "how will this make me look," "how will this impact me overall," and such."

I don't think I want to look at how my actions affect myself other than a few "selfish needs" of mine that I acknowledge (as a principle too, really, this is how I see it: everyone needs to put themselves first, before they can do anything else). I'm not necessarily very aware of how they affect others though, from an emotional standpoint. I do care about not looking bad/about reputation related things but not sure I get the idea on "how will this impact me overall". If you meant the selfish needs then yeah I will look at this at times.


Are you very critical of yourself and/or others?
Hm well I'm not critical in a self-degrading way, if, say I make a mistake that bothers me, I approach it in the following way "here's the mistake and here's how I can fix it". No self-flagellation, that's not constructive to me. Otoh, for some reason, I can be quite angry until I figure out where the issue was. But again, that anger is not directed at myself/inward at all. So I don't see myself as very critical of myself. I also constantly try to keep my expectations realistic. When I say constantly, I really mean it lol.

Same for others, really, but if I correct something, some people can still take it the wrong way. It doesn't help that I get more into this mode of correcting others in a more blunt way when I get more irritable, which can happen too often. :grumpy:

Otoh there are a lot of things where I don't correct anyone openly, I might make silent judgments but they are fleeting kinda. It's like those things don't matter beyond a degree or something. So I'm not sure I'm very critical on the whole.


How do you react if someone points out how you are wrong or inconsistent?
That. Doesn't. Happen. Lol, jk. By this joke I mean I don't really get to see myself as wrong or inconsistent just because someone tries to point out such a thing... I'll instantly become either argumentative or I'll just ignore them but I'd find it annoying in either case.

As an exception to the rule though, it did happen that someone said I was inconsistent in how I made a decision one evening and changed it the next morning to another decision. I had to acknowledge that in that case I was being inconsistent, with still trying to figure out rules of behaviour for certain emotional reactions, specifically.


What happens if you decide something is reliable/trustworthy and it ends up not being so?
This question is a bit general, but it'd probably piss me off if it got in the way somehow. If you get more specific, I can try and answer this better.
 

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@grumpytiger

Ahh okay. I think you might be 1 SX/SO. I'm not sure of which wing; I'm slightly leaning towards 1w2, but you might find 1w9 a better fit (1w9 SX/SO is harder to find info on, and I think most 1 SX/SO descriptions lean towards 1w2). My initial impression was you were SOC-mid to begin with, but SP/SO didn't feel right. The SX/SO with 1 means they're less focused on themselves, more focused on the behavior of others... SX is more specifically people they feel close to, while SOC-mid would imply a "comfort-ness" in that arena.

Don't type at 1w9 just because people say it's more introverted and/or less expressive than 1w2. People do that all the time with 6w5 and if I typed at 6w5 just because of that... Well, it wouldn't be accurate of my fears/motivations.

FWIW your 3 seems 3w4, but that's slightly moot :tongue: You do remind me of a friend who is 368, but I think your guys' similar behavior stems from different motivations. I was really tempted to put you at 3w4 for that reason, but I think the fact that you seem to be SX/SO is... clouding things a little.

Edit for links:
http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ce-thread-instinctual-variants-stackings.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-forum-reformer/9155-type-one-variant-stackings.html
 

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but is there any other layer of meaning to "super-awesome" here?
Oh, and no, no real other layer :p Fair question, but that was just a way to describe the mindset. Using "best at" and "achieving" gets boring and repetitive :tongue:

Mind, the need to be super-awesome not always conscious in a lot of people - most people are unaware of why they do things and why they fear stuff. It spans all types, which is why the Enneagram exists in the first place (more or less; I've never been interested in the history of it).
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
@grumpytiger

Ahh okay. I think you might be 1 SX/SO. I'm not sure of which wing; I'm slightly leaning towards 1w2, but you might find 1w9 a better fit (1w9 SX/SO is harder to find info on, and I think most 1 SX/SO descriptions lean towards 1w2). My initial impression was you were SOC-mid to begin with, but SP/SO didn't feel right. The SX/SO with 1 means they're less focused on themselves, more focused on the behavior of others... SX is more specifically people they feel close to, while SOC-mid would imply a "comfort-ness" in that arena.

Don't type at 1w9 just because people say it's more introverted and/or less expressive than 1w2. People do that all the time with 6w5 and if I typed at 6w5 just because of that... Well, it wouldn't be accurate of my fears/motivations.
Thanks for the input again. Yeah I'm not very focused on myself. I think the sx/so bit as you describe it makes sense. I mean, yes soc seems easy comfy enough stuff, while sx (people I'm close to) I can get really obsessive about. Maybe some soc stuff too, tho' :frustrating:

Is 1w9 more like "not bothered" in attitude compared to 1w2? I think helpfulness is a big part of stuff for me but I don't do it to expect whatever back like 2s seem to and I don't deny all my needs like they do it.


FWIW your 3 seems 3w4, but that's slightly moot :tongue: You do remind me of a friend who is 368, but I think your guys' similar behavior stems from different motivations. I was really tempted to put you at 3w4 for that reason, but I think the fact that you seem to be SX/SO is... clouding things a little.
Hmm that's interesting, what do you think these motivations are for him/her vs what are they for me? (If you just meant different type in general, nvm, just curious if you were thinking of anything specifically.)


Oh, and no, no real other layer :p Fair question, but that was just a way to describe the mindset. Using "best at" and "achieving" gets boring and repetitive :tongue:

Mind, the need to be super-awesome not always conscious in a lot of people - most people are unaware of why they do things and why they fear stuff. It spans all types, which is why the Enneagram exists in the first place (more or less; I've never been interested in the history of it).
OK lol I see. Super-awesome is just weird wording for myself personally lol, I'm fine with seeing my stuff as excelling in things (when that's objectively so) but "super-awesome" is a too grandiose style/view to me. Sure I'm not some extremely modest person either, I won't devalue my stuff like that, but I dislike unrealistic grandiosity. Make sense?

And yeah, it definitely takes a while to get aware of all those why's.


Thanks for this too, going to look.
 

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Thanks for the input again. Yeah I'm not very focused on myself. I think the sx/so bit as you describe it makes sense. I mean, yes soc seems easy comfy enough stuff, while sx (people I'm close to) I can get really obsessive about. Maybe some soc stuff too, tho'
Your mid instinct isn't always comfortable. It's more comfortable than the other two, but not necessarily without its own insecurities or worries. Every instinct carries its own problems, it's just that some aren't as focused on as others.

Is 1w9 more like "not bothered" in attitude compared to 1w2? I think helpfulness is a big part of stuff for me but I don't do it to expect whatever back like 2s seem to and I don't deny all my needs like they do it.
Hm... You might be right, 1w9 might fit you better. I'm just wondering if it might be your IxTx mimicking the w9, which happens a lot. It's why I was saying don't type at it just because it's "more introverted" (I don't subscribe to the idea of any/most types being I/E). But the way you describe yourself would probably indicate 1w9 on second thought, as "not bothered" about stuff as much as a 1w2 might be. And it's not exactly that 1w2 expects to be thanked or needed like 2s do, but that they're more "connected" to others, less likely to detach and stonewall. As I said before: 1w9 has more focus on their "inner peace," and SX/SO could easily explain that sort of thing and be making you just seem like a w2.

Typewatch Enneagram: Typewatch Enneagram Type Descriptions
I like these descriptions for the most part, even if type 1's is really short. Anyway, the main thing I would contradict in it is the penultimate line on 1w2: "While they are harder on others around them and can seem condescending, they are also very hard on themselves." I don't think that 1w9 is less hard on themselves than 1w2 is... Honestly, in my mind, stereotypically 1w2 is less hard on themselves than 1w9... Though 1w9 could try to mute their thoughts to maintain peace, I suppose.

As unsatisfying an answer as it may be, I think you may have to just think on it for a while. And that could take weeks, or at least it does for some. I always encourage reading, even though I disagree with many things people say :p It just takes time to be able to parse out the useful info from the "fluff" (such as I/E not being an Enneagram thing [IMO]). Knowing that you're a 1 and SX/SO gives you a great starting point, honestly.

Hmm that's interesting, what do you think these motivations are for him/her vs what are they for me? (If you just meant different type in general, nvm, just curious if you were thinking of anything specifically.)
Well, nothing too concrete, really. I don't really like introducing tritype to people who don't know their core type because core type is so much more important, so I didn't go into too much detail. In basic form, his is from Ti and yours is from type 1; Ti has a weird need to make subjective things seem objective/logical. (I might be biased as a Te user :p)

In fairness, if you do value consistency it might be worth it to check out type 6, but you don't really fit the categories (triads) too much from what I can see. It could be that we just haven't conversed long enough for me to see if you do fit them or not, I just kinda doubt it.

OK lol I see. Super-awesome is just weird wording for myself personally lol, I'm fine with seeing my stuff as excelling in things (when that's objectively so) but "super-awesome" is a too grandiose style/view to me. Sure I'm not some extremely modest person either, I won't devalue my stuff like that, but I dislike unrealistic grandiosity. Make sense?
Lol, I get it. I'm an Ni 6w7, I exaggerate and/or put things into weird terms :wink: Sorry if that's caused too much confusion in some places, I'm totally willing to try to explain myself (though I don't promise to always succeed).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Your mid instinct isn't always comfortable. It's more comfortable than the other two, but not necessarily without its own insecurities or worries. Every instinct carries its own problems, it's just that some aren't as focused on as others.
Ah, OK, that makes sense.


Hm... You might be right, 1w9 might fit you better. I'm just wondering if it might be your IxTx mimicking the w9, which happens a lot. It's why I was saying don't type at it just because it's "more introverted" (I don't subscribe to the idea of any/most types being I/E). But the way you describe yourself would probably indicate 1w9 on second thought, as "not bothered" about stuff as much as a 1w2 might be. And it's not exactly that 1w2 expects to be thanked or needed like 2s do, but that they're more "connected" to others, less likely to detach and stonewall. As I said before: 1w9 has more focus on their "inner peace," and SX/SO could easily explain that sort of thing and be making you just seem like a w2.
I wasn't trying to say that one fit me better, was just asking if that was the difference. I very easily get engaged with others socially and to help them. At the same time I'm very detached actually, but I stonewall only in the sense that I can be private not letting others "in" easily, that definitely takes time. Social interaction is easy, the rest isn't as easy. Inner peace is something I easily see in myself but I don't usually focus inward so I don't really pay attention to that. I'm not very peaceful externally lol, though I can be when I'm not engaged. When engaged I hardly see myself as peaceful much except if I think that's what's needed for something for people in a situation.

Dunno if 1w9 sx/so would stonewall all that much either, tho'?


Typewatch Enneagram: Typewatch Enneagram Type Descriptions
I like these descriptions for the most part, even if type 1's is really short. Anyway, the main thing I would contradict in it is the penultimate line on 1w2: "While they are harder on others around them and can seem condescending, they are also very hard on themselves." I don't think that 1w9 is less hard on themselves than 1w2 is... Honestly, in my mind, stereotypically 1w2 is less hard on themselves than 1w9... Though 1w9 could try to mute their thoughts to maintain peace, I suppose.
Muting thoughts, that's interesting. I have a pretty empty head by default (and that outward focus), so when I read things like inner voice of critic for 1, I don't relate easily heh. I have to be in a very bad place emotionally to actually start having such a voice and then I shut it down because I don't see it as constructive.

As for the link, thanks, that was a good read, I guess I relate to 1w2 in that I'm not too philosophical but I'm not that interpersonal, more detached than that despite easily engaging socially with people (or just to help them in stuff, as I said). Maybe IxTx 1w2 can be like this, then.


As unsatisfying an answer as it may be, I think you may have to just think on it for a while. And that could take weeks, or at least it does for some. I always encourage reading, even though I disagree with many things people say :p It just takes time to be able to parse out the useful info from the "fluff" (such as I/E not being an Enneagram thing [IMO]). Knowing that you're a 1 and SX/SO gives you a great starting point, honestly.
Fair enough.


Well, nothing too concrete, really. I don't really like introducing tritype to people who don't know their core type because core type is so much more important, so I didn't go into too much detail. In basic form, his is from Ti and yours is from type 1; Ti has a weird need to make subjective things seem objective/logical. (I might be biased as a Te user :p)
OK makes sense.


In fairness, if you do value consistency it might be worth it to check out type 6, but you don't really fit the categories (triads) too much from what I can see. It could be that we just haven't conversed long enough for me to see if you do fit them or not, I just kinda doubt it.
Oh, it's consistency in terms of keeping to the principles and rules.


Lol, I get it. I'm an Ni 6w7, I exaggerate and/or put things into weird terms :wink: Sorry if that's caused too much confusion in some places, I'm totally willing to try to explain myself (though I don't promise to always succeed).
No worries lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@Paradigm To clarify about that inner voice of critic when I'm in a bad place, it's like instead of my default "here's the mistake, and here's how to fix it", it will be personally judging about the mistake. So yeah as soon as I notice I shut that down because it makes no sense, it's not constructive: it won't solve anything and is just degrading and sinking in negative emotionality. Maybe that's what disintegrating to 4 looks like, actually? Dunno.
 

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Sorry for the delay. I seem to be heading towards one of my "introverted modes" where socializing is avoided. Nothing personal, I promise; it just happens to me time to time.
I'm also not in a very concise mindset so I apologize if I ramble.

I wasn't trying to say that one fit me better, was just asking if that was the difference. I very easily get engaged with others socially and to help them. At the same time I'm very detached actually, but I stonewall only in the sense that I can be private not letting others "in" easily, that definitely takes time. Social interaction is easy, the rest isn't as easy. Inner peace is something I easily see in myself but I don't usually focus inward so I don't really pay attention to that. I'm not very peaceful externally lol, though I can be when I'm not engaged. When engaged I hardly see myself as peaceful much except if I think that's what's needed for something for people in a situation.
"Not letting people in" is often multi-faceted in reasons. It usually makes me consider SP for one's instincts, but, as I said, I'm not sure the SP stacks fit you well. So, for you, I would ask if you had any life experiences which would get in the way of getting to know people. Many people are taught this behavior by bullying, neglect, betrayal, all sorts of things; these happen to people of all types and all walks of life.

 
For example, 6w7 SP is stereotyped as very friendly, very open, even talkative... All things which I am not, usually. Part of that is a misunderstanding of SP (in short, SP is more about personal space, autonomy, and self-protection, less about materialistic things - but on a much deeper level than I feel I can explain atm). But the largest part of that is bad childhood experiences and discrimination I face every day in public. When you're an outcast, you don't learn to be sociable, you know?

The way you describe yourself as being "not very peaceful" is why I headed towards 1w2 with you. You seem far more engaged, comparatively. Your values may focus on yourself (or maybe those closest to you?) but there's still that engagement. 1w9s aren't typically "engaged;" I would say they're like the third least engaged type (5 -> 9 -> 1w9), even if they do have a fiery streak when injustice (as the individual defines it) pops up.

Dunno if 1w9 sx/so would stonewall all that much either, tho'?
It's true that I don't know any core 1w9s personally, so I could be off on this idea. I'm making an educated guess on my experiences with my father (8w9 SO/SP) and myself (a mere 1w9 fix) - none of which are particularly good things to base a core type of 1(w9) on. My grandma is a 1w2, but SO/SP and ESFJ, so I don't feel she applies that much... Though, thinking about it, while she's actually been quite focused more on herself being perfect, it was only until she reached her 70s that everyone else started feeling like they could relax around her :p She was never mean in the least, she's very loving, but there were always rules like keeping the house tidy, so it felt a little like eggshells sometimes. She's relaxing on her "unspoken rules" with age.

Anyway, I was going to say my dad, as a SOC 8w9, stonewalls a lot. And I know it may be the SP influence in part, but I don't think it's the primary cause as much as the w9 is. Oftentimes if he's upset at someone, he usually stonewalls them out to the point he doesn't even register what they're saying or how his behavior is affecting others. Of course, 8 is still his core so that type is still his main coping mechanisms, but the stonewalling happens once he's figured out the 8 mechanisms don't work.

Muting thoughts, that's interesting. I have a pretty empty head by default (and that outward focus), so when I read things like inner voice of critic for 1, I don't relate easily heh. I have to be in a very bad place emotionally to actually start having such a voice and then I shut it down because I don't see it as constructive.
I'm like this too, again defying the 6w7 stereotype of having racing thoughts. In some people it's just normal, though I'm not entirely sure how common it is. Honestly, the way you say it's not constructive is relateable, too. And... Well, I had to teach myself how to be like this.

My inner critic - obviously not as strong as a core 1 - is "felt" to me. It manifests as an extreme distaste, guilt, disappointment, criticism of others, all with few or even no words. It's more abstract, like in pseudo-visions of the future and why it's wrong and what the impact would/could be. Your way of it could be very different, but the main point is everyone has their own way of thinking.

So yeah as soon as I notice I shut that down because it makes no sense, it's not constructive: it won't solve anything and is just degrading and sinking in negative emotionality. Maybe that's what disintegrating to 4 looks like, actually? Dunno.
Yeah, it could be an ego defense, as far as Enneagram terms go. The ego is supposed to avoid disintegration, and you may have developed a way to avoid it either more effectively or earlier than most do. That's not to say you're immune to disintegration, but you may have better/more coping mechanisms than many, which is a great help.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Sorry for the delay. I seem to be heading towards one of my "introverted modes" where socializing is avoided. Nothing personal, I promise; it just happens to me time to time.
I'm also not in a very concise mindset so I apologize if I ramble.
Hey, no worries at all. :)


"Not letting people in" is often multi-faceted in reasons. It usually makes me consider SP for one's instincts, but, as I said, I'm not sure the SP stacks fit you well. So, for you, I would ask if you had any life experiences which would get in the way of getting to know people. Many people are taught this behavior by bullying, neglect, betrayal, all sorts of things; these happen to people of all types and all walks of life.
I see, well by the "letting in" I meant emotionally in a certain sense. It's not like I "spare" any part of myself otherwise, I can be quite sharing, just not that part and a few other related very private things. I would actually really like to be able to do this and sometimes I can, but it's not easy to get there. Hope that clarifies :).

Also, I recall reading 1s have a problem with vulnerability like that (not that it's as big an issue as for 8 for example), and 1 sx specifically has a problem with emotional pain, and I really found that spot on.

And sure, I might've had life experiences about this, but then it would have had to be quite early in life because I don't remember any consciously that would obviously be related to this issue.


For example, 6w7 SP is stereotyped as very friendly, very open, even talkative... All things which I am not, usually. Part of that is a misunderstanding of SP (in short, SP is more about personal space, autonomy, and self-protection, less about materialistic things - but on a much deeper level than I feel I can explain atm). But the largest part of that is bad childhood experiences and discrimination I face every day in public. When you're an outcast, you don't learn to be sociable, you know?
That makes sense. Funnily enough tho', I was an outcast in school, so yeah I have a quite hostile, not social side, but still I have a very social side too that comes out easily when the situation isn't one I see negatively. And as I get the past more and more resolved, there are fewer and fewer such situations.

(Oh and that discrimination thing doesn't sound good. If it was still ongoing for me like that, I'd be full-on hostile too, without a social side.)

Oh and the only thing I ever related to from sp stuff is interest in materialistic stuff, but even that's just for attractiveness and social status related reasons. I don't keep a personal space beyond that emotional thing I mentioned above, I get so easily into interactions and get intensely engaged so easily again, lol. Throwing myself into it fully always. Even physical space... I can share it decently easily and quickly. OK, I'm just mentioning all this if you want to see a more clear picture on the instinct stacking, but I think your guess with it was quite spot on anyway. :)


The way you describe yourself as being "not very peaceful" is why I headed towards 1w2 with you. You seem far more engaged, comparatively. Your values may focus on yourself (or maybe those closest to you?) but there's still that engagement. 1w9s aren't typically "engaged;" I would say they're like the third least engaged type (5 -> 9 -> 1w9), even if they do have a fiery streak when injustice (as the individual defines it) pops up.
OK yeah forget 1w9 then lol. I do have the fiery streak about injustice but I don't need that to get involved in stuff.

This w9 stuff sounds so sp-like, also, hm. If I'm both w2 and sp-last, the tendencies against anything about noninvolvement and preserving own space and turning inwards etc would have to be extremely low for me and I think that's accurate. It's like, I can exist fine alone and be peaceful and all that for even long periods, but even then I don't really turn inwards in any sense of the word, periodically and temporarily only at best (e.g. introspecting), and I really easily get engaged. Well, to be totally precise, I can also be still hostile and even aloof seeming, if you want to count that for an orientation resembling self-preservation, but it's more due to my experiences as discussed above.


It's true that I don't know any core 1w9s personally, so I could be off on this idea. I'm making an educated guess on my experiences with my father (8w9 SO/SP) and myself (a mere 1w9 fix) - none of which are particularly good things to base a core type of 1(w9) on. My grandma is a 1w2, but SO/SP and ESFJ, so I don't feel she applies that much... Though, thinking about it, while she's actually been quite focused more on herself being perfect, it was only until she reached her 70s that everyone else started feeling like they could relax around her :p She was never mean in the least, she's very loving, but there were always rules like keeping the house tidy, so it felt a little like eggshells sometimes. She's relaxing on her "unspoken rules" with age.

Anyway, I was going to say my dad, as a SOC 8w9, stonewalls a lot. And I know it may be the SP influence in part, but I don't think it's the primary cause as much as the w9 is. Oftentimes if he's upset at someone, he usually stonewalls them out to the point he doesn't even register what they're saying or how his behavior is affecting others. Of course, 8 is still his core so that type is still his main coping mechanisms, but the stonewalling happens once he's figured out the 8 mechanisms don't work.
OK, yeah I absolutely do *not* relate to this kind of stonewalling and I don't tolerate it if someone tries to get this passive-aggressive. I guess 9 relates to passive-aggressive tendencies, I have a principle against allowing any such behaviour for myself, and for others either. I actually get quite controlling/demanding if someone tries to pull that with me. Again I'm thinking that's way more 2-ish than 9-ish.


I'm like this too, again defying the 6w7 stereotype of having racing thoughts. In some people it's just normal, though I'm not entirely sure how common it is. Honestly, the way you say it's not constructive is relateable, too. And... Well, I had to teach myself how to be like this.
Interesting tidbit, that there. I thought Head types always have an active mind and it's the Gut types that don't. But I don't know how much this tenet in enneagram is true in practice. Or how this mind thing is to be interpreted exactly about Head vs Gut. I don't think it's very common anyway to have that empty head thing, at least people I ever discussed this topic with are usually surprised at how I describe it. Probably even Gut types, lol.


My inner critic - obviously not as strong as a core 1 - is "felt" to me. It manifests as an extreme distaste, guilt, disappointment, criticism of others, all with few or even no words. It's more abstract, like in pseudo-visions of the future and why it's wrong and what the impact would/could be. Your way of it could be very different, but the main point is everyone has their own way of thinking.
Hmm, well, I think I can have an internal pressure building up if I don't do what I think I'm to do. It's not a feeling beyond that, just that pressure. Nice pseudo-visions :), I don't have that, for sure. I judge in a different way cognitively, yeah. (Which isn't Enneagram per se.)

So OK, if this was the only 9-ish thing about me, with "muting thoughts", that's not enough to be w9, and it's not even specific to 9 apparently, then. :)


Yeah, it could be an ego defense, as far as Enneagram terms go. The ego is supposed to avoid disintegration, and you may have developed a way to avoid it either more effectively or earlier than most do. That's not to say you're immune to disintegration, but you may have better/more coping mechanisms than many, which is a great help.
I agree it looks like an ego defense. Another one I seem to have is turning all my anger externally instead of inwards onto myself. It sometimes (when I'm in that bad place) actually takes extra energy to keep it turned outwards and then that can be a bit taxing. When I say I turn it outwards, I mean I am angry at the situation as it is, until I figure out what was actually wrong. Then that might be something I did and in how I did it exactly, but until I see that responsibility pinpointed nicely clearly, I'll just be angry like that. Afterwards the anger stops like it never existed heh. Weird, and yeah, sounds like one of those ego defenses against the disintegrating. Oh, and, if it's someone else's responsibility, I'll still be angry but it will then specifically be directed at them and at judging them and taking action on that. So overall, I think that fits 1 sx and/or 1w2, to turn the energy and anger outwards like that, I suppose. I read 1 sp turns the anger inward to themselves, well, no way!! :laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hmm, in this thread I relate to 1w9:

"Ones with a strong Nine wing (1w9) tend to be easygoing, objective, moderate, impersonal, and stubborn. They are usually relatively detached.

Ones with a strong Two wing (1w2)
tend to be helpful, empathic, sensitive to others, image conscious, attention seeking, and controlling. They are usually more expressive of their feelings.

Occasionally, people present the persona of one of their wings - rather than their actual type - to the outside world."


I can present a 9ish phlegmatic appearance yeah until I get involved. That's when I get to be controlling and helpful like described for 1w2 here but I'm none of these as listed for 1w2: "empathic, sensitive to others, image conscious, attention seeking". While all the 1w9 adjectives fit. Though I'm only easygoing and moderate until I get involved lol. Then I go over to controlling and totally not moderate.


So, does anyone have any input on what 1w9 sx/so or 1w9 sx/sp looks like compared to 1w2 sx/sp?

The one thing I'm sure of is I'm not 1w2 sx/so, that seems too extraverted - the most extraverted 1 and while I'm decently outwardly focused with my energy when I get involved in interaction, I'm not that far on that end.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
OK based on this I'm 1w9 sx/sp and I relate to the 1w9 sx/sp videos I've watched of women in another thread on another site.

Still, if anyone wants to chime in, I'd appreciate that.

Especially because I'm not sure how to fit it where I get so involved-intense in interactions. Is that simply just being 1 sx? Does that work with 1w9 sx/sp?

I would think sx definitely contributes because I have a laser-like focus on the partner in the interaction and that's what makes it intense. On the other hand I do have a broader focus too behind the intenseness of this laser-like energy when I'm not engaged with just one person one on one but everyone in the group which could sound like sx/so rather than sx/sp... It's like my energy is 100% outward turned then, which again I think fits sx/so better. I still have my focus on one person at a time in these groups but I switch fast between them. With the focus on one person in a group it's the laser-like focus but with the broad focus also being there a bit, not losing awareness that I am in a group.

The videos of 1w9 sx/so women at that link though, they all make me feel like they have some extra awareness for the people around them in the environment that I just do not have. This comes off in their expressions being broader in a way. Mine are way more contained even though intense, just like the expressions of the 1w9 sx/sp women. So it's possible that that group-based broader focus I have in the background as described above that seems like soc instinct isn't as strong in my case as for sx/so.

It's true that where I said I don't lose awareness that I am in a group, it's a very basic awareness really. It's not detailed or anything. I'm just like, I'm aware that there are others around and that I will need to switch my focus to others too, one by one, to keep my attention on everything and everything under control. So maybe that's soc-last in a soc context. I do forego the sp focus at that point for sure, though, the sp focus that I can have present at other times. Hence feeling like I am 100% outward in these social/group situations compared to my default which is still mostly outward but where there is some passive pulling back too. While real sx/so may have an actually more detailed-refined outward focus compared to me.

So yes I guess the intenseness is also much like the soc-last intensity of sx/sp as described here: "Their blind spot can be their inability to see the impact of their intensity in the social realm."

End of thinking aloud now. :laughing:

Thanks for any input on this.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Lol I'm gonna complicate this a bit. So here's this other source that types some people slightly differently. 1w9 sx/sp becomes 1w2 sx/so for Emily Deschanel for example. I watched both 1w2's and 1w9's now, more closely, I see the difference is 1w9 is really detached even when I'd be a bit more outwards reaching in a sense. I actually get more smiley more easily. I don't see myself as terribly warm but perhaps for a IxTx I get to look warm as 1w2 ...

It's as if until I get involved I'm more 1w9: phlegmatic and inner peace is the default, and when I am involved I'm more 1w2: controlling, helpful, involved (still not extremely emotional but somewhat demonstrative yes). And I get way more choleric than phlegmatic.
 

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OK based on this I'm 1w9 sx/sp and I relate to the 1w9 sx/sp videos I've watched of women in another thread on another site.

Still, if anyone wants to chime in, I'd appreciate that.

Especially because I'm not sure how to fit it where I get so involved-intense in interactions. Is that simply just being 1 sx? Does that work with 1w9 sx/sp?

I would think sx definitely contributes because I have a laser-like focus on the partner in the interaction and that's what makes it intense. On the other hand I do have a broader focus too behind the intenseness of this laser-like energy when I'm not engaged with just one person one on one but everyone in the group which could sound like sx/so rather than sx/sp... It's like my energy is 100% outward turned then, which again I think fits sx/so better. I still have my focus on one person at a time in these groups but I switch fast between them. With the focus on one person in a group it's the laser-like focus but with the broad focus also being there a bit, not losing awareness that I am in a group.

The videos of 1w9 sx/so women at that link though, they all make me feel like they have some extra awareness for the people around them in the environment that I just do not have. This comes off in their expressions being broader in a way. Mine are way more contained even though intense, just like the expressions of the 1w9 sx/sp women. So it's possible that that group-based broader focus I have in the background as described above that seems like soc instinct isn't as strong in my case as for sx/so.

It's true that where I said I don't lose awareness that I am in a group, it's a very basic awareness really. It's not detailed or anything. I'm just like, I'm aware that there are others around and that I will need to switch my focus to others too, one by one, to keep my attention on everything and everything under control. So maybe that's soc-last in a soc context. I do forego the sp focus at that point for sure, though, the sp focus that I can have present at other times. Hence feeling like I am 100% outward in these social/group situations compared to my default which is still mostly outward but where there is some passive pulling back too. While real sx/so may have an actually more detailed-refined outward focus compared to me.

So yes I guess the intenseness is also much like the soc-last intensity of sx/sp as described here: "Their blind spot can be their inability to see the impact of their intensity in the social realm."

End of thinking aloud now. :laughing:

Thanks for any input on this.
I am Sx/Sp. I can probably help you decide between Sx/Sp and Sx/So.

Which is more dominant: the laser-like focus on the one other person or the awareness of yourself in relation to the group?

I don't see myself in relation to the group at all; I am pretty blind in terms of all matters regarding group dynamics. No awareness, nothing. I don't see groups.

Another thing concerning the Social instinct - people talk about seeing 'roles' in groups (another thing I'm oblivious to); so if you have some awareness regarding your role and the roles of others in a group, I'd say you're more Sx/So than Sx/Sp.
 
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