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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
-Most days are remarkably similar for me, and I like that. I have tea, read the news, write for cash, generally goof off watching cartoons and posting on forums, socialize a little bit, then read, internet browse, rinse, repeat.

-Although I am pretty pleased with my life, I probably qualify as a recluse at this point. I go for nightly strolls but basically would rather stay inside with air conditioning, my computer and books and snacks.

-I have never really been "into" relationships. In my early twenties I dated on and off, but I never felt much connection with girls my age.

-In many ways forums and intellectual discussions give me an outlet that I can't achieve with a one-to-one partner. It might be nice to have an intellectual sparring partner but I won't go out of my way to locate one.

-There isn't any church or political party that I rally around. There's not even a core dogma that I rally around, save maybe meta-ideologies like humanism and existentialism.

-I have almost a congenital inability to feel along with other people. A man came to the door today babbling about some charity (and clearly trying to evoke some pathos) and I couldn't take that heart-rending voyage with him. I was just like, leave me alone. :tongue:

-I feel like a character from the movie Clerks or Slacker. Most of the time I'm a smartass...I don't feel much anxiety socially and I find intellectual stimulation and pushing the envelope more satisfying than group harmony or small talk.

-There are portions of my life I completely compartmentalize and keep private. I really can't convey, for instance, the impact and rhetorical freedom someone like Faulkner gave to me around age nineteen. So, I generally don't bring that stuff up in conversation.

-Yeah, I don't know how to express these things in conversation. You can't just volley into Schopenhauer or Nietzsche's Will to Power...without being terribly pretentious.

-I don't drink or smoke. I suppose I value long-term goals and satisfaction higher than short-term thrills. Parties are really boring for me and I find it awkward to not have anyone to really get into it with. :bored:

-Most of the time I study areas with absolutely no real world payoff. Right now I'm reading an economics book called The Crash Course and learning about personality taxonomies. Again, no real world payoff. I would say I like to stay politically informed but relatively unengaged.

Well, that's a general taste of me. I guess I'm just looking for input on enneagram related stuff (instinctual variants, core type, tritype, etc.)...I primarily want to know if my self-perception meets your perception or, better yet, reality.
 

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I probably qualify as a recluse at this point.


Is that usual?

forums and intellectual discussions give me an outlet that I can't achieve with a one-to-one partner.


By can't you mean, you don't have such a partner (as the next line suggests), or that a one-to-one partner isn't really ever going to give you what sort of outlet you get from forums and discussion?


congenital inability to feel along with other people.


What about in relation to your life decisions and what you want, or things unrelated to other people?

and I find intellectual stimulation and pushing the envelope more satisfying than group harmony or small talk.


What if you met someone who does both - the former up to your standards, and the latter up to the standards of relevant group, with whom you connected? Would you be looking to develop the latter, or no?


What types have you looked at in enneagram? What do you struggle with (not what you generally don't care much about, which I get a lot of your answers seem to at least tangentially or implicitly focus on).
 

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Not sure about the MBTI type... heavy focus on the introverted functions, though. It's tough to say from this, because you describe a lot of behavior-related stuff, but enneagram type 3 disintegrating to 9 or 9 itself (the apathy, disengagement, reliance on comfort and routine, etc). You use a lot of type 5 keywords, but you address behavior rather than motivation, which suggests that it might be a fixation but not your core. It's almost like that's how you want to be seen. As far as instincts, sp/sx or sx/sp. The key though would be why? Why do you fall into this pattern of behavior and why might you not be reaching out so much?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not sure about the MBTI type... heavy focus on the introverted functions, though. It's tough to say from this, because you describe a lot of behavior-related stuff, but enneagram type 3 disintegrating to 9 or 9 itself (the apathy, disengagement, reliance on comfort and routine, etc). You use a lot of type 5 keywords, but you address behavior rather than motivation, which suggests that it might be a fixation but not your core. It's almost like that's how you want to be seen. As far as instincts, sp/sx or sx/sp. The key though would be why? Why do you fall into this pattern of behavior and why might you not be reaching out so much?
I have toyed with the idea of type nine, yet I don't relate to most of the nine's actual strategies. When something needs to be done, I usually just get it over with rather than endlessly postpone.

One could argue that's nine integrating but why do focus on the 9/3 axis?

With respect to the last questions, I am very introverted. I don't like the chaos of crowds or even shopping. That said, I do feel some affinity to the social five descriptions. I like debating politics and giving mini-lectures. I screen for an acceptable person, usually another intellectual, to have a tit-for-tat with.

Taking the instincts in isolation, I should be Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx but I find the social five stuff really fits. Particularly the Riso and Hudson description and link below outlining social fives.

Socionics - the16types.info - Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes

Finally, with respect to wanting to be viewed a certain way, I definitely maintain an awareness of the gestalt or social perception that others are bound to extract from what I put out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Is that usual?
Probably not. :tongue:

By can't you mean, you don't have such a partner (as the next line suggests), or that a one-to-one partner isn't really ever going to give you what sort of outlet you get from forums and discussion?
More the latter but I don't feel these forums are the pinnacle of my day or most difficult reading I encounter. I just use the forums as an outlet in the absence of intellectual sparring partners...basically.

What about in relation to your life decisions and what you want, or things unrelated to other people?
I don't quite understand this question.

What if you met someone who does both - the former up to your standards, and the latter up to the standards of relevant group, with whom you connected? Would you be looking to develop the latter, or no?


That's interesting. I have thought about that. I would invariably bash the group and pedestal what I saw as truth, even if that meant alienating some people. As an example, I'm a strong antinatalist even, or maybe especially, among 20 somethings eager to reproduce.

Or, another example, if pressed I would dismantle someone's religion or career, but I wouldn't do that unsolicited or for kicks.

What types have you looked at in enneagram? What do you struggle with (not what you generally don't care much about, which I get a lot of your answers seem to at least tangentially or implicitly focus on).
I know about all of the types. The enneagram is an ongoing mental project for me - fitting other people in categories, etc.

With respect to the "what do you struggle with?" question, I would say forging lasting relationships; but then again, I don't entirely care. I know people who secretly want relationships say that as consolation, but in my experience being alone trumps having to cater to someone else.

My ENFJ type nine sister and I have this running joke...the people we see in relationships are completely miserable...yet relationships are ostensibly about happiness. :confused:

I just don't like people's bullshit. Like I golfed with a buddy recently and it was absolutely miserable, although he enjoyed himself immensely. I'm very entertaining company but prefer to be left alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Just watching this random video, the guy claims to be a nine, and I see these traits in my sister but not me. She's so passive-aggressive...whereas I might fight, and enjoy it, for a few minutes anyway. But the nines I have met just shut down in conflict if you force them to be there; contrastingly, I find conflict useful for overcoming boundaries and so on.

I would also say at my worst I can be nihilistic, violently argumentative and even abusive. At my worst I don't zone out like nines, in front of the TV or smoking pot or whatever. I just have a gallon of existential angst shoved into my face. Food doesn't taste the same, I wonder why people have to eat, whether any life has purpose...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

I really can't not be a five. This video reminded me of five's ego boundaries and holy idea. The trouble I was having parsing nine/five was that both type's holy ideas feel alike and are described in very similar terms (the dissolution of the most rudimentary subject/object boundary)...and both are withdrawn types. Edit: Here this bloke calls himself a four. Who knows? :tongue:
 

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unctuousbutler said:
I don't quite understand this question.


I guess I should ask what you mean by inability to feel along with others. I was wondering where your relation to your feelings does stand, if aforementioned is mainly testament to inability to feel in ways that connect with others' feelings.

I would invariably bash the group and pedestal what I saw as truth,


What if there was no such conflict between the truth and the group? You appear to be associating a conflict in your mind between -- it must have some reality based in your experience, but surely you know such a conflict doesn't always exist. So what if there were someone else who maintained harmony in a certain group, but also were intellectually just as honest and clear as you are? How would you respond to such a person if engaged by them? Focus on what you do have in common? Be derisive as to the part of them you tend to barf upon (or so your answer suggests)?

With respect to the "what do you struggle with?" question, I would say forging lasting relationships; but then again, I don't entirely care.


If you don't struggle with anything, as far as I'm concerned, you might not have much of a meaningful type -- I clarified my meaning of "struggle" to not include things you don't really care about specifically because I don't think such a "struggle" really represents much inner conflict.

Which is fine. You don't have to have much conflict going on.



Type 9 is definitely a gut type I'd associate this sort of flavor vaguely with (I will most certainly not make claims as to your core type until I know your relation to the types a tremendous lot better -- it's like pulling teeth with me).
They don't have to be pushovers, in fact a friend of mine who isn't on the forums/doesn't know much personality theory, but I strongly suspect is 9w8, is anything but so; she's rather fine with being firm. Actually this type are usually bloody stubborn and won't compromise their peace of mind even if it means being icy as hell.


When something needs to be done, I usually just get it over with rather than endlessly postpone.


Yeah the thing is tritype. Tritype tritype. It creates seemingly contradictory personalities, which I think makes sense rather than not. So I could see 9 + other types working out to be how you say you are.


 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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I guess I should ask what you mean by inability to feel along with others. I was wondering where your relation to your feelings does stand, if aforementioned is mainly testament to inability to feel in ways that connect with others' feelings.



What if there was no such conflict between the truth and the group? You appear to be associating a conflict in your mind between -- it must have some reality based in your experience, but surely you know such a conflict doesn't always exist. So what if there were someone else who maintained harmony in a certain group, but also were intellectually just as honest and clear as you are? How would you respond to such a person if engaged by them? Focus on what you do have in common? Be derisive as to the part of them you tend to barf upon (or so your answer suggests)?



If you don't struggle with anything, as far as I'm concerned, you might not have much of a meaningful type -- I clarified my meaning of "struggle" to not include things you don't really care about specifically because I don't think such a "struggle" really represents much inner conflict.

Which is fine. You don't have to have much conflict going on.



Type 9 is definitely the gut type I'd associate this sort of flavor vaguely with (I will most certainly not make claims as to your core type until I know your relation to the types a tremendous lot better -- it's like pulling teeth with me).
They don't have to be pushovers, in fact a friend of mine who isn't on the forums/doesn't know much personality theory, but I strongly suspect is 9w8, is anything but so; she's rather fine with being firm. Actually this type are usually bloody stubborn and won't compromise their peace of mind even if it means being icy as hell.




Yeah the thing is tritype. Tritype tritype. It creates seemingly contradictory personalities, which I think makes sense rather than not. So I could see 9 + other types working out to be how you say you are.


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So I will treat these questions as one large block of text...I suppose I do unconsciously associate conflict with groups because my views are typically at odds with societal beliefs. That's not some cliche: I live that dissonance every day. There's this belief that one must have kids. I don't listen to that. There's a belief one must have a nine to five. I freelance. Majority opinion says democratic/republic, I choose humanism. It just always seems like a conflict, although I latch onto like-minded people when our paths collide. I have always been deeply skeptical of society and mobs: case in point, nazism. Millions believed in nazism. I'm a freethinker. I even analyze ideologies into the ground, deconstruct, assimilate and move on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@bearotter - On your conclusion about not having a meaningful type, in my opinion I am simply a healthy five. I believe my sister is a healthy type nine. In many ways both of us embody type eight and type three characteristics vis-a-vis our integration points.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Fair enough. @unctuousbutler -

If you'd like a suggestion or two, you can tell me what you think your relation to 3 types {head, heart, gut} is. You clearly seem to think your head type is 5. What about the others, and why?
I feel like I embody the self-discovery of four (heart fix?) and the perfectionism of one (gut fix?).

Perhaps 1w9 as third in line...the "researcher" archetype as far as tritype seems generally applicable.

I would certainly entertain any dissenting opinions, though.
 

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unctuousbutler said:
On your conclusion about not having a meaningful type, in my opinion I am simply a healthy five. I believe my sister is a healthy type nine. In many ways both of us embody type eight and type three characteristics vis-a-vis our integration points.


To explain, I'm not looking for unhealth so much as signs of some kind of conflict. You can be a healthy 5, sure. What I am trying to say is adopting a type generally has a lot to do with over-reliances which are rationalized in some form, but which still represent a conflict, as in "I can't be X way, because reality says nope, but I'll be what it makes the most sense to be...but ideally I'd be Y way in full along with all of X".

Even if you integrated 5-->8 there would be signs of a conflict between 5 and 8, or else you might as well be an 8. The line of integration represents taking a path which isn't fully natural to us, after all. We may vastly over-estimate how much we are actually integrating when we learn about that type we're supposed to integrate to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To explain, I'm not looking for unhealth so much as signs of some kind of conflict. You can be a healthy 5, sure. What I am trying to say is adopting a type generally has a lot to do with over-reliances which are rationalized in some form, but which still represent a conflict, as in "I can't be X way, because reality says nope, but I'll be what it makes the most sense to be".

Even if you integrated 5-->8 there would be signs of a conflict between 5 and 8, or else you might as well be an 8. The line of integration represents taking a path which isn't fully natural to us, after all. We may vastly over-estimate how much we are actually integrating when we learn about that type we're supposed to integrate to.[/COLOR]
Well, I feel "integrated" when I actually get to work or even just go for a walk instead of constantly staying in my head.

But, with respect to your first paragraph, I feel if one inhabits the healthy realm of one's type, one has worked through a lot of type-related issues already.
 

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unctuousbutler said:
I feel if one inhabits the healthy realm of one's type, one has worked through a lot of type-related issues already.


True - if one isn't so withdrawn from reality as to be dysfunctional, so introverted and experience-rejecting as to be crippled, one isn't a total disaster. But once you transcend your type truly, which usually takes a lifetime if I am not much mistaken, if it happens at all, you might find how much of an 8's nature was craved by the inner 5. It doesn't have to be bodily lust at all, it could simply be how much experience the 5 denied himself due to some somewhat phantom fixation, despite it having been cleverly rationalized to seem apt at the time. If it didn't seem rational one would obviously not do it. The question is what our blindspots are, and that's where most of real serious integration (as far as I could guess) happens.

I am not sure who would agree, but I think if you feel 4 is a strong type in you, perhaps it can show some mild signs of positive aspects of 1.

If some combo of 1/9, 4, 5 appears right, that makes sense.


One thing I can guess is you'd hate unhealthy 6 behavior that translates to belonging to /subscribing to ideologies just to feel supported or secure in some way. Fixation on this stuff could even point to some 6 influences in yourself, perhaps some interplay with 5 (as you likely know, 6 influences can also come in the form of rebellion against commonly sought sources of security which usually are certain authorities).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·


True - if one isn't so withdrawn from reality as to be dysfunctional, so introverted and experience-rejecting as to be crippled, one isn't a total disaster. But once you transcend your type truly, which usually takes a lifetime if I am not much mistaken, if it happens at all, you might find how much of an 8's nature was craved by the inner 5. It doesn't have to be bodily lust at all, it could simply be how much experience the 5 denied himself due to some somewhat phantom fixation, despite it having been cleverly rationalized to seem apt at the time. If it didn't seem rational one would obviously not do it. The question is what our blindspots are, and that's where most of real serious integration (as far as I could guess) happens.

I am not sure who would agree, but I think if you feel 4 is a strong type in you, perhaps it can show some mild signs of positive aspects of 1.

If some combo of 1/9, 4, 5 appears right, that makes sense.


One thing I can guess is you'd hate unhealthy 6 behavior that translates to belonging to /subscribing to ideologies just to feel supported or secure in some way. Fixation on this stuff could even point to some 6 influences in yourself, perhaps some interplay with 5 (as you likely know, 6 influences can also come in the form of rebellion against commonly sought sources of security which usually are certain authorities).
I completely agree with that. The five tendency, and I feel my tendency, is to withdraw and study instead of really go after what I want. That could be a date or different career, anything. Fives like to keep these unpredictable elements at arm's length through abstracting, say, a relationship instead of engaging in one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·


True - if one isn't so withdrawn from reality as to be dysfunctional, so introverted and experience-rejecting as to be crippled, one isn't a total disaster. But once you transcend your type truly, which usually takes a lifetime if I am not much mistaken, if it happens at all, you might find how much of an 8's nature was craved by the inner 5. It doesn't have to be bodily lust at all, it could simply be how much experience the 5 denied himself due to some somewhat phantom fixation, despite it having been cleverly rationalized to seem apt at the time. If it didn't seem rational one would obviously not do it. The question is what our blindspots are, and that's where most of real serious integration (as far as I could guess) happens.

I am not sure who would agree, but I think if you feel 4 is a strong type in you, perhaps it can show some mild signs of positive aspects of 1.

If some combo of 1/9, 4, 5 appears right, that makes sense.


One thing I can guess is you'd hate unhealthy 6 behavior that translates to belonging to /subscribing to ideologies just to feel supported or secure in some way. Fixation on this stuff could even point to some 6 influences in yourself, perhaps some interplay with 5 (as you likely know, 6 influences can also come in the form of rebellion against commonly sought sources of security which usually are certain authorities).
Yeah, in fact, I recently ridiculed (maybe unfairly) the six tendency to defer to outside authority in lieu of realizing their own power and freethinking abilities. I did this in a recent post.
 
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