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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Theres one thing i have learned about INFJ, and that is simple we are "messiahs". I use the word messiahs lightly because when i say this people automatically think of me being some holy being or something. When you really think about it, we are the chosen 1 of 16.

The INFJ personality type is very special because it is a diluted version of every other personality type. If you look at our cognitive functions you realise we are extremely contradictory, this is because we are the personality type of the universe. The universe itself is a very contradictory thing and it represents itself in 16 different ways and one of them just happens to be all of them mixed into one. We are supposed to communicate the univierses secrets to the people, because we understand the universe and we understand the people.

Now back to my title, i believe that Jesus is the perception of love and hitler is the perception of hate. Both of these men failed in their quest to unite the world because their messages were perceived in extremes. I propose that all infj unite as messiahs and teach the world the true value of acceptance. How else will the world get the fuck over its stupid problems? "The art of acceptance, and the gift of getting the fuck over it.

One more thing i want you to realise that character > personality, and that is why an infj like jesus can step up and lead the people, and also why a man like hitler can step up and lead the people.
 

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It could be argued that there is ying and yang in Hitler and Jesus respectively...

Yes, I felt that I am here to do something to benefit the world and help others since I was a kid...I have no wish to be, nor could I handle being a 'messianic' figure.
 

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I propose that all infj unite as messiahs and teach the world the true value of acceptance. How else will the world get the fuck over its stupid problems? "The art of acceptance, and the gift of getting the fuck over it.
Yes, hear hear; teach them the true value of acceptance by accepting them all with their stupid problems caused by what must be stupid people with stupid views.

Definitely, we must lead by example.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hahaha the perception of "douchey" stems from the individual not the person they are perceiving. If they think like this of course my message sounds douchey. I believe in no absolutes and no labels, there is no good and there is no bad, there just IS.
 

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I totally agree with you, problems are only problems because we call them problems. "Problems" can be fixed by simply ignoring them!
 
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I love me some ignorance. That bliss.
 
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You've just made us sound so incredibly douchey :laughing: Moreso than how many types already see us, viewing ourselves as snowflakes, now as messiahs. I get what you mean, but messiah is not the word I'd use.

Plus, only an INFJ would use a comparison between themselves and the universe lol
I had a funny feeling someone was going to comment this.

:laughing:
 

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I get your intentions and everything but there is always going to be some barrier in communicating this because you are speaking of an ideal - people are going to interpret your communication differently e.g "Douchey" or "Ignorant". Also just to reiterate, you are speaking of an ideal - this is not necessarily the reality of the situation. I don't think it could be said that just because someone is INFJ they are automatically in that state of consciousness - thinking of it like that is idealistic, people are much more individual than they are collectively their type than you are presenting.
 
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Hahaha the perception of "douchey" stems from the individual not the person they are perceiving. If they think like this of course my message sounds douchey. I believe in no absolutes and no labels, there is no good and there is no bad, there just IS.
Yeah, I wish that was how it worked, but it isn't. While calling anyone anything reflects your own person, it also holds up a mirror to whatever you're commenting upon - that's the goal of doing so and that is what it achieves. That's just my two cents, and I am an INFJ, and your comment still comes across as douchey :laughing: It's not anything someone hasn't already made a thread about on PerC concerning INFJs.

The amount of times other people have come onto our forums to tell us that we believe we're special, and comments like yours proves them right. It's hardly a bad thing, it's just a fact.

I don't think we're all that special, it's easy to say we are simply because we 'feel' we see the world much more differently to others. Again, messiah is hardly the appropriate word. Not all INFJs are equal and I've met plenty online who I wouldn't trust to lead me or take advice from given the chance to be lead by someone of another type and disposition. It's too much of a generalisation to say we're all so important and unique. And...well, you did use labels like 'messiah', 'Jesus' and 'Hitler', so there's that lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
oh god so many labels. I think all infj have this potential, its society that molds our character. Maybe meditation or something to revert them back to the child like wonder.

Another note on the douchey part, i find it extremely douchey :p. I just feel that humans need to evolve past these labels to succeed as race. But what do i know? NOTHING! Also i dont think we are special we are just us and if thats special, then its not really that special! I dont consider myself special because everyone is "special". GOD DAMN THIS UNIVERSE!
 

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oh god so many labels. I think all infj have this potential, its society that molds our character. Maybe meditation or something to revert them back to the child like wonder.

Another note on the douchey part, i find it extremely douchey :p. I just feel that humans need to evolve past these labels to succeed as race. But what do i know? NOTHING! Also i dont think we are special we are just us and if thats special, then its not really that special! I dont consider myself special because everyone is "special". GOD DAMN THIS UNIVERSE!
If I may reply, I think that there are two different types of INFJ´s. Most of INFJ´s are Dreamers(the first type), ...but dreamers with limits. Those limits are barriers within the minds of those INFJ´s. They may dream about and create beuatiful things that many people find incredible, wheter they are masterpieces of art, philosophy or just random acts of kindness that inspire other people, but even those things are very limited on a global scale. What real influence had Gándhi outside of India? Well except some peace-loving individuals around the world, I would say very little. The same goes for Martin Luther King and Mandela. They may have posed as moral authorities, but their real influence on a global scale was very little.

This brings us to the second type of INFJ´s, The Doers. I know INFJ´s in general are considered to be doers, but all people have some limits... yet these Doers with their very strong drive that forces them to press on no matter the consequences, seem to be limitless. That´s because their perception of an ideal world is the thing that they draw their energy from. These INFJ´s seek true power to make their ideals real and they stop at nothing to acquire it. I think that INFJ´s that gain enough power to influence other people tend to become tyrannical and that´s because they are so blinded by their ideal, that they don´t pay attention to others peoples and their opinions and feelings. They just supress any kind of critical thinking because they believe their cause is just and that everybody would benefit from it´s implementation into real life. Best examples are Adolf Hitler and Lev Trockij. Both of them were willing to sacrifice evrything and everyone to reach their goals. One wanted a Thousand-year Reich, the other wanted a World Revolution. Both used malevolent means to reach it, both caused great suffering and many deaths, both failed.

So yes, I can relate to your thoughts about INFJ´s here, but I think it is very unprobable to find someone who could be a moral and political authority at the same time. That special person would have be somebody, who is immune to evil and open to criticism ...well, and people in power tend to be... you know... corrupt, evil and not very immune to criticism. xD
The only difference between INFJ´s and other MBTI types seems to be our drive, strong will and deepness we bring with us wherever we go. That means two things: When we are good, we are very good... good to the point where others truly may see us as messiahas. On the other hand, when we are evil, we are very evil... evil to the point where others see us as personifications of evil itself.

So yeah, ying and yang.
 

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:)


I understand where you're coming from, but what logic do you have to support your claim that INFJs are a "diluted version of every other personality type?" Do INFJs really understand what it's like to have high-functioning extraverted sensing, for example? I'm sorry, but this doesn't go along with typology and what it means to be a type.

The strength of INFJs is our alternation between detachment and involvement in the lives of the people around us due do to the empathic abilities often found in Fs (which is possibly heightened by the dominance of the introverted N function in INFJs). Which means we are very good at understanding one another's motivations (and whether they are "good or bad")... We are not like ESTPs who see problems clearly (and quickly) and delegate easily, nor are we like ESFJ who "work hard and play with zest," nor INTJs who know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know (which makes them such great scientists).

Additionally, loving people and overarching ideas that point towards love, like typology (not this or that type), are who and what unites people and helps in eliminating the world's problems imo-- by gathering people's strengths and helping different personalities/temperaments/etc. etc. to best understand one another.

My 2c :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
 


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I understand where you're coming from, but what logic do you have to support your claim that INFJs are a "diluted version of every other personality type?" Do INFJs really understand what it's like to have high-functioning extraverted sensing, for example? I'm sorry, but this doesn't go along with typology and what it means to be a type.

The strength of INFJs is our alternation between detachment and involvement in the lives of the people around us due do to the empathic abilities often found in Fs (which is possibly heightened by the dominance of the introverted N function in INFJs). Which means we are very good at understanding one another's motivations (and whether they are "good or bad")... We are not like ESTPs who see problems clearly (and quickly) and delegate easily, nor are we like ESFJ who "work hard and play with zest," nor INTJs who know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know (which makes them such great scientists).

Additionally, loving people and overarching ideas that point towards love, like typology (not this or that type), are who and what unites people and helps in eliminating the world's problems imo-- by gathering people's strengths and helping different personalities/temperaments/etc. etc. to best understand one another.

My 2c :)

The only evidence i have to support my theory is from personal experience. I have noticed my entire life i have been able to mold my personality around others quite easily. I dont know if this is a character ability on my behalf or a personality thing. I am very empathetic and open to critism so maybe im the worlds saviour
The thing that makes me think that infj are a diluted version of every other type is our contradictory our functions are, its organised chaos! I wish we could all mind meld so you could feel what i feel! Maybe one day ey?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If I may reply, I think that there are two different types of INFJ´s. Most of INFJ´s are Dreamers(the first type), ...but dreamers with limits. Those limits are barriers within the minds of those INFJ´s. They may dream about and create beuatiful things that many people find incredible, wheter they are masterpieces of art, philosophy or just random acts of kindness that inspire other people, but even those things are very limited on a global scale. What real influence had Gándhi outside of India? Well except some peace-loving individuals around the world, I would say very little. The same goes for Martin Luther King and Mandela. They may have posed as moral authorities, but their real influence on a global scale was very little.

This brings us to the second type of INFJ´s, The Doers. I know INFJ´s in general are considered to be doers, but all people have some limits... yet these Doers with their very strong drive that forces them to press on no matter the consequences, seem to be limitless. That´s because their perception of an ideal world is the thing that they draw their energy from. These INFJ´s seek true power to make their ideals real and they stop at nothing to acquire it. I think that INFJ´s that gain enough power to influence other people tend to become tyrannical and that´s because they are so blinded by their ideal, that they don´t pay attention to others peoples and their opinions and feelings. They just supress any kind of critical thinking because they believe their cause is just and that everybody would benefit from it´s implementation into real life. Best examples are Adolf Hitler and Lev Trockij. Both of them were willing to sacrifice evrything and everyone to reach their goals. One wanted a Thousand-year Reich, the other wanted a World Revolution. Both used malevolent means to reach it, both caused great suffering and many deaths, both failed.

So yes, I can relate to your thoughts about INFJ´s here, but I think it is very unprobable to find someone who could be a moral and political authority at the same time. That special person would have be somebody, who is immune to evil and open to criticism ...well, and people in power tend to be... you know... corrupt, evil and not very immune to criticism. xD
The only difference between INFJ´s and other MBTI types seems to be our drive, strong will and deepness we bring with us wherever we go. That means two things: When we are good, we are very good... good to the point where others truly may see us as messiahas. On the other hand, when we are evil, we are very evil... evil to the point where others see us as personifications of evil itself.

So yeah, ying and yang.
I consider myself "enlightened' and immune from evil and i LOVE when people criticise me! I believe criticism is the ultimate form of respect because what its truely saying is " hey bro you need to improve yourself!" and what is more beautiful then someone trying to make you a better person? I prob sound like a douche again! But then again i believe that killing someone is the ultimate form of love because the killer is giving up his after life to give the victim eternal bliss . I know this sounds illogical, but our universe is not logical in the slightest!
 

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I consider myself "enlightened' and immune from evil and i LOVE when people criticise me! I believe criticism is the ultimate form of respect because what its truely saying is " hey bro you need to improve yourself!" and what is more beautiful then someone trying to make you a better person? I prob sound like a douche again! But then again i believe that killing someone is the ultimate form of love because the killer is giving up his after life to give the victim eternal bliss . I know this sounds illogical, but our universe is not logical in the slightest!

I see. But then again, it is very "anti-INFJ-ish" to be so open to criticism as you describe, you are. I mean, yeah I am open to criticism too, but only in things I know I am bad about. But when it comes to my morals and ideals of how an ideal world should look like, then I am uncompromising. I would litteraly fight to the bitter end if there was hope to reach my ideals.

I know what do you mean... you talk about sacrificing yourself. The person killed would go to heaven and thus, you have saved her/his soul. And you will go to hell for killing that person. This is a very "INFJ-ish" way of thinking, but yet again, in the end, you are only justifying your evil actions(also pretty "INFJ-ish").

I too, sometimes justify my actions in this manner, and that might be the reason why some people typed me as an Evil INFJ. It is our strong drive and high ideals that crush everything in front of us when we think that we "see light on the end of the tunnel". An evil INFJ is so blinded that he believes that it takes only a few steps to reach his goal and he is willing to do anything for it... including justyfying evil deeds. In his mind, he believes that by reaching the goal of a better world,he would wash away even the most malevolent actions. Everyone would benefit from it in the end...

One of my hobbies is writing fiction and curently I am writing a story where the main antagonist is an INFJ. He is pretty much like in the description above. He isn´t evil, but he justifies his evil actions and believes that in the end they wouldn´t matter because in the end, a better world will emerge.
It is pretty difficult to create a good antagonist and I think that Evil INFJ´s are very interesting ones. And since I am an INFJ, I model him to think the way I think and act the way I do... so yeah, the character is basically "evil me".
Evil INFJ´s are very complex and they tend to be very good and interesting fiction villains. But on the other hand I think that INFJ´s aren´t villains at all... In my opinion, they are anti-villains(literature theory).

I think that this quote sums it all up.

“Most people are good and occasionally do something they know is bad. Some people are bad and struggle every day to keep it under control. Others are corrupt to the core and don’t give a damn, as long as they don’t get caught. But evil is a completely different creature. Evil is bad that believes it’s good.”

But anyway, back to the point. You my friend, really do think the way an evil INFJ does in some ways, so I recommend you to be cautious. You may act and behave perfectly normal when the circumstances are right, but you may also become very different when someone ignorant spits on your ideals. I mean, I don´t know for certain, everybody is different and I may be wrong, but I know I would act in a very different manner, if someone would be so foolish to dishonor my ideals. But yet again, people are different. Some INFJ´s who were raised in a very good and healthy manner and who have a healthy and realistic perception of the world and understand themselves, would truly seem to be angelic and immune to evil in some ways. Maybe you are one of those, maybe not. I really wish I could meet that kind of INFJ in my life...
 

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"we are the personality type of the universe," i actually had this thought the other day and understand what you mean/intended. However like Mantra says this proposal is idealistic and not necessarily that of reality itself. And not all INFJs are capable or even willing to walk in a path of leadership like Jesus and Hitler did, for whatever reason. As this goes beyond type as well. To think this we would need to assume INFJ is the only capable or best one for such a feat.

Instead of leading by either ways of Hitler or Jesus imo, "acceptance" like you mentioned rings a good bell. Maybe eradicating dualistic thought.
 

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The way I see it....

I am me. INFJ is a label, part of a system, designed to try to understand me. It does not define me. If it helps you understand me, great. If it doesn't, I'm still me regardless.
 

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Theres one thing i have learned about INFJ, and that is simple we are "messiahs". I use the word messiahs lightly because when i say this people automatically think of me being some holy being or something. When you really think about it, we are the chosen 1 of 16.

The INFJ personality type is very special because it is a diluted version of every other personality type. If you look at our cognitive functions you realise we are extremely contradictory, this is because we are the personality type of the universe. The universe itself is a very contradictory thing and it represents itself in 16 different ways and one of them just happens to be all of them mixed into one. We are supposed to communicate the univierses secrets to the people, because we understand the universe and we understand the people.

Now back to my title, i believe that Jesus is the perception of love and hitler is the perception of hate. Both of these men failed in their quest to unite the world because their messages were perceived in extremes. I propose that all infj unite as messiahs and teach the world the true value of acceptance. How else will the world get the fuck over its stupid problems? "The art of acceptance, and the gift of getting the fuck over it.

One more thing i want you to realise that character > personality, and that is why an infj like jesus can step up and lead the people, and also why a man like hitler can step up and lead the people.
You must be crazy.
EDIT: Or highly biased. INFJ is a type or personality. It doesn't say ANYTHING about INFJ people being lovely, nor spiritual, or even empathetic. It's a common misconception. Just... stop.
 
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