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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone :)


I'm wondering if I'm an INTJ type or an ISTJ type. I can relate to what INTJ describe as being a Ni dom user...but I also dont understand what a Si dom is like. I dont understand how "live in the past, memory, past experience" can be used in a thought process and what being a Si dom user feels like. Maybe I am, but I just dont understand the description.

So I think, if I can compare Ni and Si, it would be easier to take a pick.

Most online test I tried give me INTJ 70% of the time and ISTJ 25% of the time (the other 5% has been INTP). But since these online test are heavily biaised....the difference makes me doubt.

Also, do you know what would be the difference between a Ne/Se as a fourth function ? Is it a good idea to use the fourth function to help assess a type to someone ?

Btw, I'm french and I have a hard time in english. Pardon my mistakes. And if a sentence makes no sense, you will know why haha
 

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First of all, your english is fine. Second, I'm not an ISTJ, but as an Si-aux, I'll do my best.

Si isn't about living in the past, it's about using the past to form the present. It's about using those experiences amd drawing knowledge from things that happened before, and in the case of ISTJs, use that information in an as effective way as possible. Si is also a lot about responsibility, especially when paired with Te. Si-types, dom and aux, are often refered to as pillar of society.

Hope that helped a bit!
 
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About that Ne and Se inferior :
According to my INTJ besties, her Se makes her going wild spending anything at the moment and mess up with planning. In its proper use it helps her to observe literally every detail at present moment and make them to be their raw materials for Ni.
(usually inferior jumps out strongly in our "unusual" situation. For example, an ISFP with Te inferior under stress will plan everything overly detail or being so blatant at everything).

As for ISTJ with Ne inferior, my ISTJ dad makes silliest solution ever and laughable conclusion in connecting patterns. Sometimes he would take informations from his Si storage and try to make a "what if" connections (but for Dom Aux Ne user, this connecting attempt might be seen as beginner level).

Basically both aren't living in the moment, but their operation shares the same output.

INTJ save their Se "in the moment" observation (some of them say this one is subconsciously) and project it with Ni to see future possibilities, and then eliminate the possibilities into what is the most "true"(aha moment). It can be seen as mystic sometimes.

ISTJ has data of the past including the sense and emotion around it. If the things were right, they'll keep them that way. If things wrong...I guess my dad use his Ne to explore possibilities of solution to make it right. Then loop it.

Based on what I know. And only theoretically. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
First of all, your english is fine. Second, I'm not an ISTJ, but as an Si-aux, I'll do my best.

Si isn't about living in the past, it's about using the past to form the present. It's about using those experiences amd drawing knowledge from things that happened before, and in the case of ISTJs, use that information in an as effective way as possible. Si is also a lot about responsibility, especially when paired with Te. Si-types, dom and aux, are often refered to as pillar of society.

Hope that helped a bit!
Hmmm, yes it helped a bit. It starts to make sense.

I do use my past experience as one of my source of information/inspiration. For example, as part of a job a couple years back, I had a project to build and implant but I failed. I'm still using (and probably will for a long time) this failure as a source of motivation and information. Next time I have a similar project, I will already know the critical point where I have to be more careful. I try to find and understand the reasons why I failed before and to learn from it. For example, I had a bad team. Why did I had a bad team ? Probably because I wasnt leader good enough and probably because I didnt chose the right people. Why wasnt a good leader ? Why did I fail to choose the right team ? And I can keep digging like for a long time until I find usable solutions. So next time I have a similar tasks, I will know what to do. Same things with project where I succeed. What have I done correctly ? How can I use these succes to my advantage in the next task.

But this process isnt really concious, and it's only a fraction of my thought process. If I understand Ni correctly, it's about having a huge internal map with elements all link together in some fashion. That's how I picture my mind...but a part of these elements come from past life experience (and sensory, like what I read, what i see or what I've heard). But that's how I believe the human learn. No one can't guess how pytaghore theorem works unless they've read it somewhere. You have to learn something before being able to use it somewhere else...I dont know if it makes sense ?

And I believe it's the normal process to learn from his mistakes ? You build up on your past experience to go further ? I dont like routine and mundane stuff. I like to challenge the statu quo and I dont like the "if it's not broken, dont fix it". I'd rather go with a "use what works, avoid what doesnt work, and do better" attitude. My job is about optimizing process...so naturally I think there is always room for improvement. I use past event as a base to build better and stronger stuff.

Does it make me Si or Ni ?

Thx btw :) I'm happy to learn that my english isnt too bad hehe

About that Ne and Se inferior :
According to my INTJ besties, her Se makes her going wild spending anything at the moment and mess up with planning. In its proper use it helps her to observe literally every detail at present moment and make them to be their raw materials for Ni.
(usually inferior jumps out strongly in our "unusual" situation. For example, an ISFP with Te inferior under stress will plan everything overly detail or being so blatant at everything).

As for ISTJ with Ne inferior, my ISTJ dad makes silliest solution ever and laughable conclusion in connecting patterns. Sometimes he would take informations from his Si storage and try to make a "what if" connections (but for Dom Aux Ne user, this connecting attempt might be seen as beginner level).

Basically both aren't living in the moment, but their operation shares the same output.

INTJ save their Se "in the moment" observation (some of them say this one is subconsciously) and project it with Ni to see future possibilities, and then eliminate the possibilities into what is the most "true"(aha moment). It can be seen as mystic sometimes.

ISTJ has data of the past including the sense and emotion around it. If the things were right, they'll keep them that way. If things wrong...I guess my dad use his Ne to explore possibilities of solution to make it right. Then loop it.

Based on what I know. And only theoretically. Correct me if I am wrong.
Hmmmm

I read about "inferior eruption". Under huge stress, I can become extravorted in a sense that I need to get the fck out of my head and just stop thinking. I like talking with people about anything or rant about my stuff. Or I just go out for a walk, watch a movie...anytime that makes me stop thinking. That, or sometime I say to myself "ok, fck it, just do it" and I dive right in. These moment of "spur of action" happen when I feel like I dont have enough time (or information) to think of a proper strategy/plan and I need to get my ass moving. Also, after long period of stress, I reward my self with binge eating. After getting my school grant, I thought I deserved a bottle of wine and McDonalds. I really have to watch my diet otherwise I get fat ver quickly lol.

I guess that's Se eruption ?
 

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Other people are often "amazed" at Si-doms supposedly remarkable memory of otherwise unremarkable facts. Here is an example:

A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to meet @niss in-person. I can still remember exactly what I wore that day, the route we took to our destination(s), the activities that we did (and in what order), what I had to eat (and where we went), and in what order everyone was sitting in the restaurant booth.

HTH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Other people are often "amazed" at Si-doms supposedly remarkable memory of otherwise unremarkable facts. Here is an example:

A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to meet @niss in-person. I can still remember exactly what I wore that day, the route we took to our destination(s), the activities that we did (and in what order), what I had to eat (and where we went), and in what order everyone was sitting in the restaurant booth.

HTH.
Oh boy, I have a great memory, but not for this kind of things. I dont have to study a lot to remember a lot...but I'm clueless about environnement details. I get lost easily in car. I'm not even sure what are the colors of my best friend's eyes...srs...I know they arent brown, but I dont know if they are blue or green. And I know him since I'm 5...
 

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Other people are often "amazed" at Si-doms supposedly remarkable memory of otherwise unremarkable facts. Here is an example:

A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to meet @niss in-person. I can still remember exactly what I wore that day, the route we took to our destination(s), the activities that we did (and in what order), what I had to eat (and where we went), and in what order everyone was sitting in the restaurant booth.

HTH.
I'm not sure that would be the best example if the event was unusual and evoked a particularly strong emotional response. People can remember things in frightening amounts of detail (or think they can, but that is another matter) in these situations.
 

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Oh boy, I have a great memory, but not for this kind of things. I dont have to study a lot to remember a lot...but I'm clueless about environnement details. I get lost easily in car. I'm not even sure what are the colors of my best friend's eyes...srs...I know they arent brown, but I dont know if they are blue or green. And I know him since I'm 5...
... makes us great candidates for being contestants on Jeopardy. -_-

In all seriousness, here's another example:

By myself on the skate floor, I'm fairly unremarkable (I do get comments from random skaters about how graceful/smooth I skate, but that's about it). I don't do "tricks" or other stunts because 1)that's better left to the teens and 2)my strengths are endurance and the ability to keep a beat with the rhythm - something most young people can't seem to do these days. Anyway, pair me up with another tandem/shuffle skater and I will make us both look like the best pair on the floor. Why? Because I will watch their feet movements, analyze it for the patten (based on past history of watching their skating style) and adapt mine to match theirs

As far as directions in the car, if I've been there once before, I will remember it pretty much forever. A few years back, I drove to Myrtle Beach (this is close to a 900-mile drive from here). The first time I had a map and sticky notes on the dash reminding me what roads to take/what exits to go, etc. The second time, a year later, I remembered the map, but forgot my sticky note. I'd already gotten about 200 miles in and decided that I was fine and could navigate it fine. I ended up remembering the route perfectly - and the map stayed in the backseat the entire trip.

My two closest friends:
One of the has brown eyes, the other has blue eyes. I know both of their skate set-ups as well as my own, down to the bearings that they use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
... makes us great candidates for being contestants on Jeopardy. -_-

In all seriousness, here's another example:

By myself on the skate floor, I'm fairly unremarkable (I do get comments from random skaters about how graceful/smooth I skate, but that's about it). I don't do "tricks" or other stunts because 1)that's better left to the teens and 2)my strengths are endurance and the ability to keep a beat with the rhythm - something most young people can't seem to do these days. Anyway, pair me up with another tandem/shuffle skater and I will make us both look like the best pair on the floor. Why? Because I will watch their feet movements, analyze it for the patten (based on past history of watching their skating style) and adapt mine to match theirs

As far as directions in the car, if I've been there once before, I will remember it pretty much forever. A few years back, I drove to Myrtle Beach (this is close to a 900-mile drive from here). The first time I had a map and sticky notes on the dash reminding me what roads to take/what exits to go, etc. The second time, a year later, I remembered the map, but forgot my sticky note. I'd already gotten about 200 miles in and decided that I was fine and could navigate it fine. I ended up remembering the route perfectly - and the map stayed in the backseat the entire trip.

My two closest friends:
One of the has brown eyes, the other has blue eyes. I know both of their skate set-ups as well as my own, down to the bearings that they use.
Haha ! I'm admiring your memory

I do remember fairly well what people tell me, though, is it the same ? I remember people's name and face easily. Is it what Si is all about ? I can have a conversation with someone, never see him again for years...then when I'll see him again, I will remember what he told me and what our last conversation was about. Is this manifestation of Si or simply a good memory ?
 

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I don't have a particularly stellar memory (I have an agenda for that) but it's a memory of how past events played out that help me to shape my current decisions.
 

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To put it in perspective, I could share a bit of how my memory works.
My factual memory is horrendous. I don't remember what people wear, eat, say or do. I constantly forget which day it is and what I've eaten the day before. When it comes to faces, I completely forget what people look like. I will only be able to tell who it is when I see them again.

My memory is more focussed on the 'core' of an event. So for instance, when I've been to an amusement park I would remember it like this: "We went into a lot of attractions and at the end we ate near the entrance". I can see flashes of things that I remember if I focus hard enough, but it is never clear. It is only good enough to the have an idea of what happened at that time ("This must be from that time we went on that wooden rollercoaster").

Only extremely special memories stick for me. Like my first date (going to the carnaval and playing SOF (shooter game) together afterwards), the fun I had on the first trip of highschool (during the party at night, jumping like madmen on the tables in the room we had lunch in) or playing video games with my best friend at the time (running people over in San Andreas with the radio on while eating those wagner pizzas).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To put it in perspective, I could share a bit of how my memory works.
My factual memory is horrendous. I don't remember what people wear, eat, say or do. I constantly forget which day it is and what I've eaten the day before. When it comes to faces, I completely forget what people look like. I will only be able to tell who it is when I see them again.

My memory is more focussed on the 'core' of an event. So for instance, when I've been to an amusement park I would remember it like this: "We went into a lot of attractions and at the end we ate near the entrance". I can see flashes of things that I remember if I focus hard enough, but it is never clear. It is only good enough to the have an idea of what happened at that time ("This must be from that time we went on that wooden rollercoaster").

Only extremely special memories stick for me. Like my first date (going to the carnaval and playing SOF (shooter game) together afterwards), the fun I had on the first trip of highschool (during the party at night, jumping like madmen on the tables in the room we had lunch in) or playing video games with my best friend at the time (running people over in San Andreas with the radio on while eating those wagner pizzas).
Pretty similar to how my memory works too !

Although, I dont have a hard time to keep tract of my week :p
 

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Chamondelle:16948034 said:
About that Ne and Se inferior :
According to my INTJ besties, her Se makes her going wild spending anything at the moment and mess up with planning. In its proper use it helps her to observe literally every detail at present moment and make them to be their raw materials for Ni.
(usually inferior jumps out strongly in our "unusual" situation. For example, an ISFP with Te inferior under stress will plan everything overly detail or being so blatant at everything).

As for ISTJ with Ne inferior, my ISTJ dad makes silliest solution ever and laughable conclusion in connecting patterns. Sometimes he would take informations from his Si storage and try to make a "what if" connections (but for Dom Aux Ne user, this connecting attempt might be seen as beginner level).

Basically both aren't living in the moment, but their operation shares the same output.

INTJ save their Se "in the moment" observation (some of them say this one is subconsciously) and project it with Ni to see future possibilities, and then eliminate the possibilities into what is the most "true"(aha moment). It can be seen as mystic sometimes.

ISTJ has data of the past including the sense and emotion around it. If the things were right, they'll keep them that way. If things wrong...I guess my dad use his Ne to explore possibilities of solution to make it right. Then loop it.

Based on what I know. And only theoretically. Correct me if I am wrong.
IMO, the ISTJ part is true! The other one makes sense too but I dont know any INTJ so I can't tell from my experience.

My dad is ISTJ too and when he feels "trapped" under stress (for him that means not being able to work as much as he wants, not having time to tidy up the house everyday, not being able to do everything on his list...etc) then he'll start talking about trying new things, and believe me, his ideas are sometimes crazy.

For example, he's a nurse, three years ago he lost one of his jobs and had to work only part time in a hospital...then he came home and started telling us his ideas: "I'll buy a lot of used clothes and toys and stuff and go sell them every sunday in a used things street market" and HE DID for two years and loved it because he was providing money to our family.

He went to that market even after having worked all the night in the hospital xD. Now he has a full time job in the hospital so he has droped the market one (he tried to keep it but it was too much and my mother asked him to stop)
 

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Btw, I'm french and I have a hard time in english. Pardon my mistakes. And if a sentence makes no sense, you will know why haha
Native English speakers make more mistakes than you do.
 

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I think a good way to explain how Si-Ne works is thinking of ISTJ's as innovative people but ONLY when needed. They are routine people, sometimes could appear boring and even bossy but when bad times come they will think and think and finally have a great idea to make things better. Now think: great idea + routine = idea becomes true!

they make things happens and are great providers to their family, but are sometimes bossy and not too affective or sweet when they ask you to do something.
 

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Dominantly:
Si likes things to be certain. It doesn't like guesswork and ambiguity. Si is typically a very hard worker. This is necessary because Si needs to prepare and schedule things and organize things to make everything run smoothly and efficiently. It doesn't want to leave anything up in the air or out in the open. It wants to organize what tasks need to be done and then swiftly implement them. It loves coming up with long lists of things that it needs to do and then marketing them off one by one as they get completed.

Ni loves this guesswork and ambiguity. It craves this. Like a sleuth looking for clues. It wants to speculate about the end result. It constantly wants to jump ahead of itself and beat you to the punchline. Ni is quite averse to thinking about its obligations. It really loathes having to do these daily tasks. It wants to constantly live in its head, coming up with speculative theories of insight; often its ideas are based on little proof or evidence, as they are mostly based on "common sense": the subjective intuitive connections it makes.


Inferiorly:
Si (inferior Ne) catastrophizes. It is averse to ambiguity, so where ambiguity exists, Si thinks of all the bad things that could possibly go wrong. It's a defense mechanism that helps Si squash out this ambiguity. And prepare for the harsh unknowns.

Ni (inferior Se) becomes hyperactive. This occurs when Ni is under a great deal of stress and pressure from deadlines and things like this. Normally Ni is very procrastinating and non-working. But when pressure hits, it springs into action. It overindulges in this sensory experience. This can manifest in a number of ways--the main point is that they are obsessive and short-lived.


In this way, you can see how ISTJ and INTJ are the exact same type with complete opposite attitudes. In this way, they oppose each other's preferred way of doing things a great deal.
[hr][/hr]

Decision-Making:
Si/Te: Just the facts, please. Si wants to know things that have been proven. What actually happened? What do we actually know? Don't tell me what you THINK happened. Tell me what the actual facts are. Si wants to base its decisions off of this information. Si views speculation as misleading. And prefers to stick to reality.

Ni/Te: Sure, tell me what actually happened, but I'm not really going to listen to it. Because I know what probably happened already. Ni is quite untrusting of what is known. It sees it as misleading. Ni knows that there is always more to it than meets the eye. Ni wants to do what is most intuitive. Which usually involves speculating about peoples' motives and future outcomes that are likely to happen. It will base its decisions off these unknowns (although to Ni they frequently feel like knowns).


Ni/Te and Si/Te can lead to the same outcomes, but usually they don't. What you typically see is that Si/Te is a little worker bee who constantly scans the environment for things that need to be done. Si/Te loves doing things. It loves checking things off its list and accomplishing tasks.

Ni/Te will do MUCH less work. Usually Ni/Te is quite sedentary. It's a very cerebral type that often comes off as lazy and aloof. It frequently ignores its environment, letting things overflow and letting work pile up, as it's much more interested in what's going on inside its head.


Si/Te is very proactive. It works constantly to prevent crises from ever happening in the first place. It responds to crises by freezing up like a deer in headlights. It finds it very hard to work in the moment when faced with a crisis--finds it overwhelming due to all the ambiguity and unknowns.

Ni/Te is very reactive. It responds to crises by acting in the moment and working very hard. Sometimes it predicts these crises before they happen and prevents them. But often Ni is just waiting around for clues or evidence that will point toward negative outcomes. Without these, Ni will not feel motivated to spring into action.

[hr][/hr]
At their worst:
Si: Can be willfully naïve about potential outcomes of a situation. Can be overly conservative out of fear of delving into something new. Will tend toward being overly-humble.
Ni: Can be overly-confident about its perceived most likely outcome of a situation. Can assert speculation as if it is fact (and even lose track of what is fact and what is speculation). Will tend toward being overly- self assured.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Awesome post emberfly ! You just describe the difference between me (INTJ) and my girlfriend (ISTJ) perfectly lol !
 

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Dominantly:
Si likes things to be certain. It doesn't like guesswork and ambiguity. Si is typically a very hard worker. This is necessary because Si needs to prepare and schedule things and organize things to make everything run smoothly and efficiently. It doesn't want to leave anything up in the air or out in the open. It wants to organize what tasks need to be done and then swiftly implement them.

Ni loves this guesswork and ambiguity. It craves this. Like a sleuth looking for clues. It wants to speculate about the end result. It wants to jump ahead of itself constantly. Ni is quite averse to thinking about its obligations. It really loathes having to do these daily tasks. It wants to constantly live in its head coming up with speculative theories about how things work and what the answers are--often its answers are based on no proof or evidence--simply based on common sense and intuitive connections it makes.


Inferiorly:
Si (inferior Ne) catastrophizes. It is averse to ambiguity, so where ambiguity exists, Si thinks of all the bad things that could possibly go wrong. It's a defense mechanism that helps Si squash out this ambiguity. And prepare for the harsh unknowns.

Ni (inferior Se) becomes hyperactive. This occurs when Ni is under a great deal of stress and pressure from deadlines and things like this. Normally Ni is very procrastinating and non-working. But when pressure hits, it springs into action. It overindulges in this sensory experience. It can overconsume pleasurable substances like coffee, alcohol, chocolate, things like this.


In this way, you can see how ISTJ and INTJ are the exact same type with complete opposite attitudes. In this way, they oppose each other's preferred way of doing things a great deal.
[hr][/hr]

Decision-Making:
Si/Te: Just the facts, please. Si wants to know things that have been proven. What actually happened? What do we actually know? Don't tell me what you THINK happened. Tell me what the actual facts are. Si wants to base its decisions off of this information. Si views speculation as misleading. And prefers to stick to reality.

Ni/Te: Sure, tell me what actually happened, but I'm not really going to listen to it. Because I know what probably happened already. Ni is quite untrusting of what is known. It sees it as misleading. Ni knows that there is always more to it than meets the eye. Ni wants to do what is most intuitive. Which usually involves speculating about peoples' motives and future outcomes that are likely to happen. It will base its decisions off these unknowns.


Ni/Te and Si/Te can lead to the same outcomes, but usually they don't. What you typically see is that Si/Te is a little worker bee who constantly scans the environment for things that need to be done. Si/Te loves doing things. It loves checking things off its list and accomplishing tasks.

Ni/Te will do MUCH less work. Usually Ni/Te is quite sedentary. All the action is going on upstairs in the speculatory department. It frequently ignores its environment, letting things overflow and letting work pile up.


Si/Te is very proactive. It works constantly to prevent crises from ever happening in the first place. It responds to crises by freezing up like a deer in headlights. It finds it very hard to work in the moment when faced with a crisis--finds it overwhelming due to all the ambiguity and unknowns.

Ni/Te is very reactive. It responds to crises by acting in the moment and working very hard. Sometimes it predicts these crises before they happen and prevents them. But often Ni is just waiting around for clues or evidence that will point toward negative outcomes. Without these, Ni will not be sprung into action.
Your description of Ni is excellent. Like you said, the 'facts' are fine and all, but they can be untrustworthy. It's basically having a 'feeling' that something will happen, but it is not completely random. It needs Se to guide it into the right direction.

It's kind of like a long road. Without Se there is no road and you cannot go anywhere (or you will just start guessing randomly, which doesn't work out). But when Se puts you on the road, you will be able to see where it leads based on how it is unfolding right now.
 

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I think a good way to explain how Si-Ne works is thinking of ISTJ's as innovative people but ONLY when needed. They are routine people, sometimes could appear boring and even bossy but when bad times come they will think and think and finally have a great idea to make things better. Now think: great idea + routine = idea becomes true!
That is a good characterization. It annoys me to no end when people claim that we're categorically neither innovative nor creative. We can be very innovative, but it must be spurred by a practical need that is not otherwise being met. We're exceptionally good at developing unique solutions to real problems, but we don't necessarily go looking for them solely to entertain ourselves.
 
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