Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For those of you that do not know, I am a complete military nerd. :tongue: I recently stumbled across a PDF (http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/milreview/brus.pdf) that explained how the Army contained two different types of personalities and how they changed depending on whether the army was fighting a war or was in peace-time.

Group 1 tends to be adventuresome, daring, decisive, innovative and imaginative. (Sensing-Perceiving and Intuitive Thinkers) These people tend to fill up a wartime army very quickly due to their desires for action and innovation. They tend not to do too well in a peacetime army since they are natural chaos-makers and non-conformists.

Group 2 tends to be dependable, conscientious, detail oriented, punctual, and selfless. (Sensing-Judgers) These people are the ones often will be the vast majority of people in the peacetime army. They are most likely the types that join because of patriotism and a stable career. They tend to move away from front-line positions in a wartime army since they are not as innovative and adaptable as the Group 1.

What do think of all of this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
What do think of all of this?
I think it makes sense. So what?

Edit: Then I shall add: I wonder why you didn't include intuitive feelers in these categories (not really). Military is an absolute waste of resources anyway and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency. It's an insult to science and reason in this regard actually.

How could an ENTP such as yourself be a military nerd? One of my ENTP friends is a military nerd too... it never made sense to me. Is it the idea of epic challenges, or just the technology? Or both?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #3

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
From my limited perspective the above description seems relatively correct. I know that I could never deal with the kind of bureaucratic BS that goes on in the military these days. Yes, we are "at war", but it's war in name only. Right now it seems like military life is more similar to this video than a lot of careerist military types would like to admit:
If we ever got into a clash of superpowers on the scale of WWII though, I'd probably join in a heartbeat. The only time I'd join is if I was damn sure I wasn't gonna be bored 99% of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
I was in the military and I saw a similar pattern actually. I'm not sure that the average NT is going to want to be on the front lines. Those were mostly the SP's. The SP's generally got very bored - even hated - the drudgery of everyday military life. But, when they were "forward deployed", they enjoyed it. The SJ's were steady and consistent and enjoyed the every day stuff. As a group, they did seem a bit more hesitant to jump into the action "just for the fun of it", but they would go and do what needed to be done because it was their job - it was their duty.

I've read some stuff (no idea where) theorizing about the idea that SJ's were the bulk of the "regular military" while SP's made up a lot of the special forces and specialized, highly skilled (i.e. snipers) positions. I don't know - I can see SP's being very skilled at these specialty positions - they are great at spacial intelligence and at reacting to their environment. But, every unit is going to need the steady hand of some SJ's as well. I've known some SJ's who would get down in the trenches with no problem. They tend to be extremely hard working and very good at staying steady through difficult times. I think there is a mix of both SJ's and SP's.

The NT's mostly seemed to be officers, and also in Intel, Engineering, Legal, pilots, and the like. These are all trends and tendencies that I observed - they are not absolute blanket statements.

So, in a general sense, I agree with the things you mentioned (but I didn't open the link), with 2 exceptions:

1. Some SJ's did not shy away from combat. SP's enjoyed it more, but SJ's were also willing if duty called.
2. I don't see NT's as people who want to be on the front lines any more than SJ's, per se. A lot of unit leaders and fighter pilots are NT's, and they didn't shy away from combat either, but I wouldn't put NT's in the same category as SP's in terms of "wanting combat"/wanting action. NT's carefully analyze things. SP's dive right in and react later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
I'll add this:

In times of conflict, SJ's seemed to take on a very serious, but somber demeanor. Very focused.
SP's were amped up and ready to go.

But that didn't mean that SJ's wouldn't do what had to be done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I think it makes sense. So what?

Edit: Then I shall add: I wonder why you didn't include intuitive feelers in these categories (not really).
It's pretty rare to find an NF in a military since they are the most empathetic of the 4 four temperaments (making it extremely hard for them to kill). However, I would guess and say they would most likely be the medics, chaplains, and counselors of the military.

Military is an absolute waste of resources anyway and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency. It's an insult to science and reason in this regard actually.
Seems we have different views on the military. :p I have a fairly neutral view of the military as an organization. I don't really see it as a waste of resources since one of the basic goals of any military is to defend from outside aggressors. However, I will not deny that the military is used for aggressive action very often.

How could an ENTP such as yourself be a military nerd? One of my ENTP friends is a military nerd too... it never made sense to me. Is it the idea of epic challenges, or just the technology? Or both?
I guess the military intrigues me because of both the ingenious solutions that past leaders have used to overcome their enemies and the fact that it has produced a hell of a lot of technology for an organization that's primary purpose is to kill people and break things. Ex. The Internet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I was in the military and I saw a similar pattern actually. I'm not sure that the average NT is going to want to be on the front lines. Those were mostly the SP's. The SP's generally got very bored - even hated - the drudgery of everyday military life. But, when they were "forward deployed", they enjoyed it. The SJ's were steady and consistent and enjoyed the every day stuff. As a group, they did seem a bit more hesitant to jump into the action "just for the fun of it", but they would go and do what needed to be done because it was their job - it was their duty.

I've read some stuff (no idea where) theorizing about the idea that SJ's were the bulk of the "regular military" while SP's made up a lot of the special forces and specialized, highly skilled (i.e. snipers) positions. I don't know - I can see SP's being very skilled at these specialty positions - they are great at spacial intelligence and at reacting to their environment. But, every unit is going to need the steady hand of some SJ's as well. I've known some SJ's who would get down in the trenches with no problem. They tend to be extremely hard working and very good at staying steady through difficult times. I think there is a mix of both SJ's and SP's.

The NT's mostly seemed to be officers, and also in Intel, Engineering, Legal, pilots, and the like. These are all trends and tendencies that I observed - they are not absolute blanket statements.

So, in a general sense, I agree with the things you mentioned (but I didn't open the link), with 2 exceptions:

1. Some SJ's did not shy away from combat. SP's enjoyed it more, but SJ's were also willing if duty called.
2. I don't see NT's as people who want to be on the front lines any more than SJ's, per se. A lot of unit leaders and fighter pilots are NT's, and they didn't shy away from combat either, but I wouldn't put NT's in the same category as SP's in terms of "wanting combat"/wanting action. NT's carefully analyze things. SP's dive right in and react later.
Interesting trends that you've. It seems to confirm the theory that was made out in the article. One more question; would you expect to find an NTP leading a squad or platoon sized group in the military or in special forces?

I'll add this:

In times of conflict, SJ's seemed to take on a very serious, but somber demeanor. Very focused.
SP's were amped up and ready to go.

But that didn't mean that SJ's wouldn't do what had to be done.
I don't deny their ability to be great soldiers when SHTF. I'm just saying that the adjustment would be difficult since SJs value stability and security and the battlefield is chaotic and ever-changing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
Seems we have different views on the military. :p I have a fairly neutral view of the military as an organization. I don't really see it as a waste of resources since one of the basic goals of any military is to defend from outside aggressors. However, I will not deny that the military is used for aggressive action very often.
Like aliens? That would be the only even feasibly ethical reason to wage war, and even then, why couldn't humanity and a different race just reason together for the common good of both races? Despite the obvious language block.

So basically, until the Reapers find their way to planet Earth, I'm using my guns for defensive purposes only (and even then it would still be a defensive matter).

You may argue that that is what a military's job should be; defense, and you would be right. But reality has yielded few warriors that fought for uncorrupted purposes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
I think it makes sense. So what?

Edit: Then I shall add: I wonder why you didn't include intuitive feelers in these categories (not really). Military is an absolute waste of resources anyway and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency. It's an insult to science and reason in this regard actually.

How could an ENTP such as yourself be a military nerd? One of my ENTP friends is a military nerd too... it never made sense to me. Is it the idea of epic challenges, or just the technology? Or both?
There are quite a lot of INTJ military leaders. I worked under a handful of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
999 Posts
Interesting trends that you've. It seems to confirm the theory that was made out in the article. One more question; would you expect to find an NTP leading a squad or platoon sized group in the military or in special forces?
Oh, good question. It's so much against the grain of our functions in my opinion that it sort of "weeds us out". The military system has a way of chewing up and spitting out the NTP. I mean, I could have completed 20 years and retired...I could have shut my mouth, and did what I had to do to reach retirement, but it just wasn't the life for me. It was literally the furthest thing from Ti-Ne that I've seen in a career. I did come across some NTP's for sure though. The most memorable ENTP was a pilot - he reminded me of Rob Dyrdek, if you know who that is. He absolutely hated the structure and the rules and always spoke out against it and was always rolling his eyes - he was sort of the "black sheep" of the officers in my squadron. The misbehaved daredevil who didn't always go by the book. Kind of reminds me of Tom Cruise in "Top Gun". Kind of a wild card, but damn good at what he did. He was one of our best pilots - but he was also a risk taker and that's not always a good thing in the military. Some other NTP's (mostly INTP, seemingly) worked on the nuclear reactors. I think our Intel officer was another ENTP. Cool guy - just kind of did his own thing.

So, yeah, NTP's can be successful in whatever they set out to do. I just don't know that it's the ideal, long-term career for the Ti-Ne (or Ne-Ti) temperament or way of approaching the world. They really don't want your "ideas". They don't care about your brainstorming. It's all about following protocol, going by the book, not getting your superiors in any kind of hot water, and the daily grind. Oh, and if you want to talk about stupid, mindless rules...................that's another story altogether. :p

I don't deny their ability to be great soldiers when SHTF. I'm just saying that the adjustment would be difficult since SJs value stability and security and the battlefield is chaotic and ever-changing.
I see. Yeah, probably true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Like aliens? That would be the only even feasibly ethical reason to wage war, and even then, why couldn't humanity and a different race just reason together for the common good of both races? Despite the obvious language block.

So basically, until the Reapers find their way to planet Earth, I'm using my guns for defensive purposes only (and even then it would still be a defensive matter).

You may argue that that is what a military's job should be; defense, and you would be right. But reality has yielded few warriors that fought for uncorrupted purposes.
Remember that most humans are very illogical. What you say makes perfect sense but I doubt that would really happen if we encountered an alien race.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
Remember that most humans are very illogical. What you say makes perfect sense but I doubt that would really happen if we encountered an alien race.
I think it's more correct to say that humans can be illogical, given that they have two things that work in unison: a large neocortex and free will.

The notion that "they are" is certainly backed up by reality, but not inevitably or by biology (unless you're counting having an even larger neocortex).

All we need is a system of government and society that is not corruptible (or very close).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,516 Posts
I think it's more correct to say that humans can be illogical, given that they have two things that work in unison: a large neocortex and free will.

The notion that "they are" is certainly backed up by reality, but not inevitably or by biology (unless you're counting having an even larger neocortex).

All we need is a system of government and society that is not corruptible (or very close).
or the nature of people change, which is in a way the same thing. it seems as if every law is an attempt to curb what is natural for humans to do when they come together in large numbers so we're constantly trying to change the environment in order to control when that will only come about once people change, not their constraints/surroundings.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Military is an absolute waste of resources anyway and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency. It's an insult to science and reason in this regard actually.
I wonder if you'd say that if your country was under threat of invasion...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
I wonder if you'd say that if your country was under threat of invasion...
I would believe that under any circumstance. However, if my country was under the threat of invasion I realize that if the opposing party is out of control that they need dealt with, but I would still only use military force as a last resort. So perhaps I should rephrase what I said:

"The unnecessary use of military power is an absolute waste of resources and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
"The unnecessary use of military power is an absolute waste of resources and goes completely against the concept of rationality and the ability the solve problems reasonably and with any kind of efficiency.
I don't think most people who have seen what war is like would disagree (at least, on principle; there could be many reasons why someone would advocate it on a situational basis). However, are you opposed to the military capability of your country, or are you simply opposed to your country using that capability for gain?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
I don't think most people who have seen what war is like would disagree (at least, on principle; there could be many reasons why someone would advocate it on a situational basis). However, are you opposed to the military capability of your country, or are you simply opposed to your country using that capability for gain?
That is not necessarily an "or" question in that believing one does not cancel out the belief in the other. I am opposed to the unreasonable profligates that run our world, from which I am referring to the various decision makers of their countries.

War is barbaric and inefficient. Commander Shepard was once told that "the best way to win a war is to avoid it altogether," by a salarian scientist. If you're not familiar with Mass Effect then the statement stands on its own merits.

What do you think of this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
That is not necessarily an "or" question in that believing one does not cancel out the belief in the other. I am opposed to the unreasonable profligates that run our world, from which I am referring to the various decision makers of their countries.

War is barbaric and inefficient. Commander Shepard was once told that "the best way to win a war is to avoid it altogether," by a salarian scientist. If you're not familiar with Mass Effect then the statement stands on its own merits.

What do you think of this?
Then we as humanity haven't really come that far from the caveman days. We still wage war (albeit in a more sophisticated and less gruesome way) and let's face it; most of us do have some innate curiosity when it comes to warfare.

BTW, it seems that you had interesting in serving. What happened? http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/62541-military-intjs.html

There are quite a lot of INTJ military leaders. I worked under a handful of them.
what personality is this forum? - Professional Soldiers ®
Turns out that the Special Forces forum is filled with INTJs. Not really surprised by that, though. I've always that the ones that make through SF selection are the not the Rambo types but the ones that quiet and thoughtful.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top