How are you so good with people if N?
My greatest problem with people is they don't realize I don't literally mean what I say. Also most of the things I want to communicate demand imagination, something that takes time and effort. (I can understand the time thing, sometimes it makes no sense to say something that is going to take a long time to say, but I do wish more people were willing to put in the energy had the time been there!)
My point, if ENFJ's are abstract and thoughful, how do they have such good social skills? You ever seen an INFJ? It's not pretty. INTP? Horrifying. Yet ENFJ it's like no sweat I don't get it.
My point, if ENFJ's are abstract and thoughful, how do they have such good social skills? You ever seen an INFJ? It's not pretty. INTP? Horrifying. Yet ENFJ it's like no sweat I don't get it.
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I guess it's not so much the N that is used for communication, since it's an introverted function for ENFJs, but more so, others feel the Fe? Ni is what ENFJs use to process information I guess, while Fe communicates it.
I think with regard to your INFJ, INTP thing - they both lead off with introverted functions, but I'm sure as they age/mature their other functions come into play and they become excellent communicators too
I think with regard to your INFJ, INTP thing - they both lead off with introverted functions, but I'm sure as they age/mature their other functions come into play and they become excellent communicators too
I wondered if cognitive functions might play a part but I'm not very capable with that part of the theory yet.
Agreed. I think we are great listeners and attentive to social details. The E gives us more sources of information to interact our F I think pulls the "filter" off and when say what we mean.Hence why we apologize alot. I think when an ENFJ is more more perceptive on social actions than other may realize.
I think you're confusing good social skills with good articulation.
ENFJ's realize that you can say pretty well anything and get away with it, so long as you present it in the right way.
They're playful to the point where making sense doesn't much matter. =]
ENFJ's realize that you can say pretty well anything and get away with it, so long as you present it in the right way.
They're playful to the point where making sense doesn't much matter. =]
Disagree.. I pay attention to details I listen. I watch eye movement and can discern body language. Articulation is good in court and speeches.
I've never seen ENFJ's disagree before. I'm afraid for what's next...
I do feel like some people are easier for me to talk to because they can read and accommodate me better. As INTP I can say most things fine though I do intend them to be taken non-literally, more than I even realize, but I am awkward at times especially in the deeply subjective areas of life because I'm not really wired for that and ENFJ's I've met are really good at accommodating me and helping me get out what I want to say and not rushing me. Always appreciated that. Or I'll just totally screw up and say something way too rationally but they will know what I am really trying to do in spite of failure.
I do feel like some people are easier for me to talk to because they can read and accommodate me better. As INTP I can say most things fine though I do intend them to be taken non-literally, more than I even realize, but I am awkward at times especially in the deeply subjective areas of life because I'm not really wired for that and ENFJ's I've met are really good at accommodating me and helping me get out what I want to say and not rushing me. Always appreciated that. Or I'll just totally screw up and say something way too rationally but they will know what I am really trying to do in spite of failure.
It's ok to disagree. It's not ok to be disagreeable. I don't like conflict. Forgiving is a key part to us.
Let me jump in here...
The other side of that combo is that, I will often see double-meanings to things people said and find them hilarious, yet when I explain to everyone why I'm laughing, only a handfull of people get it...
YES, except that I'll go through bitter conflict if I believe that it'll come out to a better end when resolved... I think this is probably the FeNi thing again too...
I think that it's the combination of Fe and Ni... ENFJ's skill set is typically defined as FeNiSeTi, so with Extraverted feeling, we're able to determine best how someone feels when they say something & detect emotion, and then with Ni, we can see the hidden connections & actual (intuitive?) meaning of what was said, whether or not the statement was meant to be taken literally...
The other side of that combo is that, I will often see double-meanings to things people said and find them hilarious, yet when I explain to everyone why I'm laughing, only a handfull of people get it...
I agree, but would add that the Ni gives us the ability to see through the sarcasm, abstractism, or literalism and put together the actual statement... or as I've heard another ENFJ say all the time, "It's not what you said but how you said it"
I only agree partially with this... that I do realize that I can say almost anything and get away with it & if I'm in the right mood, I'll be that way and make everyone laugh, but I don't usually feel like being like that b/c often times there are a handful of people that either find that offensive or don't get it and feel left out.
@j3321 & @jojo
YES, except that I'll go through bitter conflict if I believe that it'll come out to a better end when resolved... I think this is probably the FeNi thing again too...
as an INTP you use Ne. ENFJ's use Ni.
Ni is much more passive and behind the scenes then Ne. Ne more often causes people (*cough*sensors*cough*) to look at you funny because it involves you saying your train of thought out loud whereas most people who use Ni finish their thought in their head before they say it out loud if at all.
ENFJ's are not "good with people", they are just likeable and good at knowingly or unknowingly getting people to like them out of their giving nature. there are plenty of people out there who can't understand them anymore then any other N type, it's just that it doesn't keep people from judging them harshly and getting to know them like with other N types.
Ni is much more passive and behind the scenes then Ne. Ne more often causes people (*cough*sensors*cough*) to look at you funny because it involves you saying your train of thought out loud whereas most people who use Ni finish their thought in their head before they say it out loud if at all.
ENFJ's are not "good with people", they are just likeable and good at knowingly or unknowingly getting people to like them out of their giving nature. there are plenty of people out there who can't understand them anymore then any other N type, it's just that it doesn't keep people from judging them harshly and getting to know them like with other N types.
This is something I am always trying to convey to my ISFJ. He will say something to me and I will feel completely attacked, and shut down, because of the callous way he went about telling me.
But your ISFJ is also an Fe user?
I have the same issue with my ISTJ husband. He cannot sugarcoat or soften the blow. He prides himself on 'telling it like it is'. My response to that is:
To answer the OP- I think one of the ENFJ's strengths (at least one of my strengths) is the ability to decipher body language and meaning extremely quickly and get out the appropriate response quickly. I can turn ona dime to accomodate the person I am interacting with. And if I ever have a shocked reaction inside- I am very good at spewing out some crap (that comes off as funny banter) to cover those few moments while I regroup...
I'll describe an example...
When my brother first told me he was gay (which was about 10 years ago) He had been depressed and we were laying on his bed having a talk. I asked him "have you been dating any girls?". He said no. Then for some reason I had this wierd premonition that he was gay and was having a hard time coming out or talking about it... so I asked him really casually as if it were the most normal thing in the world, "have you been dating any guys?" and he took a moment and said "yeah." Hearing this- in my head, I was freaking out- just surprised and taken aback- he had previously dated beautiful women (although always bored of them quickly...) and I wanted to freak out and ask him questions and delve in there- but I knew he needed space and also a low-key reaction from me... My reaction had to be normal and chilled out- not negative and not fakely positive... that is what he needed from me 100%. I evaluated all this up in nanoseconds and was able to deliver a seamless response that did not betray my inner thoughts at all... I said "cool. anything serious?" he said "no" and then I said, "ah. Well playing the field is fun." Then we sat there for a moment and he volunteered a little bit of information and then things got quiet for a moment and I took a beat and said "I'm going to the gym in a bit. wanna come?" and we moved on perfectly...
This sums up to me the ENFJ's communicating abilities... There is a seamless and almost instantaneous reading of information and then output of communicating in the style the other person needs/appreciates...
For the record- I am not this calculating about the vast majority of my interactions- but I can be and when I read a strong need in another person- I can usually immediately accomodate it.
1. telling it gently is still telling it.
2. you get more bees with honey.
To answer the OP- I think one of the ENFJ's strengths (at least one of my strengths) is the ability to decipher body language and meaning extremely quickly and get out the appropriate response quickly. I can turn ona dime to accomodate the person I am interacting with. And if I ever have a shocked reaction inside- I am very good at spewing out some crap (that comes off as funny banter) to cover those few moments while I regroup...
I'll describe an example...
When my brother first told me he was gay (which was about 10 years ago) He had been depressed and we were laying on his bed having a talk. I asked him "have you been dating any girls?". He said no. Then for some reason I had this wierd premonition that he was gay and was having a hard time coming out or talking about it... so I asked him really casually as if it were the most normal thing in the world, "have you been dating any guys?" and he took a moment and said "yeah." Hearing this- in my head, I was freaking out- just surprised and taken aback- he had previously dated beautiful women (although always bored of them quickly...) and I wanted to freak out and ask him questions and delve in there- but I knew he needed space and also a low-key reaction from me... My reaction had to be normal and chilled out- not negative and not fakely positive... that is what he needed from me 100%. I evaluated all this up in nanoseconds and was able to deliver a seamless response that did not betray my inner thoughts at all... I said "cool. anything serious?" he said "no" and then I said, "ah. Well playing the field is fun." Then we sat there for a moment and he volunteered a little bit of information and then things got quiet for a moment and I took a beat and said "I'm going to the gym in a bit. wanna come?" and we moved on perfectly...
This sums up to me the ENFJ's communicating abilities... There is a seamless and almost instantaneous reading of information and then output of communicating in the style the other person needs/appreciates...
For the record- I am not this calculating about the vast majority of my interactions- but I can be and when I read a strong need in another person- I can usually immediately accomodate it.
Funny that you bring up this point. I have an INTJ friend who, I think, does not like that I analyze everything in him and around him. His body language, his intonation, his microscopic muscle movements...I pick all those up during our conversations together. One thing that I have noticed with my little interactions with INTJs (I have the fewest INTJ friends out of all the Myers Brigg combination) is that they seem to be in their head a lot while I am talking to them, or they seem do be doing something else. It does not bother me unless they're doing it intentional to piss me off. Now the thing is, I can relate to this as well as when I am talking, I am in my head thinking and analyzing a lot too. With INTJs however, they seem to be more blatant about their thinking (I watch INTJs think, even if they think I don't see that they're thinking, I KNOW...and other ENFJs KNOW!!!) where as ENFJs hide their thinking while conversing. We just do it somehow, I really don't know how.
I have also noticed with INTJs is that their intonations seems to be more down/negative sounding (not saying you guys are pessimistic) but there is a difference in intonation. I think if an ENFJ were to say the same thing as an INTJ has to say, it may sound important, yet it does not defend and it might be even funny, but it does get the point across. With my mentee, I've notice that I used illustrations to lessen the blow, in which he laughs, but I do get my point across, such as being more honest with me, and he actually is (He's an INFP). When I had a INTJ as a mentor, his body language would tell me he doesn't want to be bothered. He would be stiff necked, talking to himself (without voice, I watched his mouth move though...meaning that he's thinking), and his diction usage would be more straightforward (which is good) but at the same time more harsh. There are better ways to say things obviously. With me, his body language + diction usage = double blow on the head.
I think what helps us ENFJ, as mentioned before, is the Fe in us. We're able to look at people's body language and translate it to the feelings that they have inside. For me, people with Ts tend to be tricky because I may assume a feeling that they are not feeling but because of their body language and their intonation of their voice, and it has happened to me many times with Ts, good friends too. I have asked a friend to compared an INTJs writing style to an ENFJs writing style. Both excellent styles might I add. INTJs is objective and straightforward with their ideas, giving key visual insights while able to express their thoughts clearly. With an ENFJs style, beautiful elaboration of their emotions, flowery expressions of the language and abstract connections of their writing that makes the reader able to relate and feel what they are feeling. Just comparing the two, there is a big difference in which they are presented. Both excellent styles yet difference in how it is presented. The point of that illustration was to show being straightforward may not be the best thing. Some people are sensitive...we live in a very diverse world. You may need to apologize if what you say sounds harsh, but that also takes training since people have their own bias and may not know that something may sound harsh to another person when it doesn't sound harsh to you. I guess its growing more of that Fe side of yours. That would really help you benefit in understanding others and knowing the feelings that's going inside of them. ENFJs, when we get hurt (at least for my experience), we're able to act as if nothing happened since we don't like offending the other person even if it offends us. Later, we think about it, cry about it, etc, and may or may not decide to tell the person, that hurts. (I'm a little more straightforward so I tell the other person if it did hurt or not.) But I guess that was my rant about INTJs....I just got hurt by one today so that's why this is all fresh...:crying:
I have also noticed with INTJs is that their intonations seems to be more down/negative sounding (not saying you guys are pessimistic) but there is a difference in intonation. I think if an ENFJ were to say the same thing as an INTJ has to say, it may sound important, yet it does not defend and it might be even funny, but it does get the point across. With my mentee, I've notice that I used illustrations to lessen the blow, in which he laughs, but I do get my point across, such as being more honest with me, and he actually is (He's an INFP). When I had a INTJ as a mentor, his body language would tell me he doesn't want to be bothered. He would be stiff necked, talking to himself (without voice, I watched his mouth move though...meaning that he's thinking), and his diction usage would be more straightforward (which is good) but at the same time more harsh. There are better ways to say things obviously. With me, his body language + diction usage = double blow on the head.
I think what helps us ENFJ, as mentioned before, is the Fe in us. We're able to look at people's body language and translate it to the feelings that they have inside. For me, people with Ts tend to be tricky because I may assume a feeling that they are not feeling but because of their body language and their intonation of their voice, and it has happened to me many times with Ts, good friends too. I have asked a friend to compared an INTJs writing style to an ENFJs writing style. Both excellent styles might I add. INTJs is objective and straightforward with their ideas, giving key visual insights while able to express their thoughts clearly. With an ENFJs style, beautiful elaboration of their emotions, flowery expressions of the language and abstract connections of their writing that makes the reader able to relate and feel what they are feeling. Just comparing the two, there is a big difference in which they are presented. Both excellent styles yet difference in how it is presented. The point of that illustration was to show being straightforward may not be the best thing. Some people are sensitive...we live in a very diverse world. You may need to apologize if what you say sounds harsh, but that also takes training since people have their own bias and may not know that something may sound harsh to another person when it doesn't sound harsh to you. I guess its growing more of that Fe side of yours. That would really help you benefit in understanding others and knowing the feelings that's going inside of them. ENFJs, when we get hurt (at least for my experience), we're able to act as if nothing happened since we don't like offending the other person even if it offends us. Later, we think about it, cry about it, etc, and may or may not decide to tell the person, that hurts. (I'm a little more straightforward so I tell the other person if it did hurt or not.) But I guess that was my rant about INTJs....I just got hurt by one today so that's why this is all fresh...:crying:
INTJ's Inner Self
With my little encounter with them, it seems like they don't want me to analyze how they are feeling or their emotions. It seems to me they don't want to show any "feelings." I don't know if that's considered a weakness to you guys or something but it sorta annoys me to be honest. I have apologized a lot to them, saying that I can't help it. It's automatic. I analyze everything, and then I ask if I could say something about them, and they say, I don't want to discuss it or they get a little upset and it makes the conversation awkward, and they continue talking about superficial things that I don't care about (style, movies, etc.), trying to avoid talking about themselves. I want to understand the heart of the person (and this is not if I meet an INTJ for the first time, these are years of developing friendship). And yet I feel like we haven't developed our friendship at all. Just want to know what you guys think...maybe this should go to the INTJ thread?
I have a question for you, do INTJs hate being analyzed?
With my little encounter with them, it seems like they don't want me to analyze how they are feeling or their emotions. It seems to me they don't want to show any "feelings." I don't know if that's considered a weakness to you guys or something but it sorta annoys me to be honest. I have apologized a lot to them, saying that I can't help it. It's automatic. I analyze everything, and then I ask if I could say something about them, and they say, I don't want to discuss it or they get a little upset and it makes the conversation awkward, and they continue talking about superficial things that I don't care about (style, movies, etc.), trying to avoid talking about themselves. I want to understand the heart of the person (and this is not if I meet an INTJ for the first time, these are years of developing friendship). And yet I feel like we haven't developed our friendship at all. Just want to know what you guys think...maybe this should go to the INTJ thread?
I am INTP not INTJ but I will answer anyway. No, I don't care if people analyze me, there's not any "hidden" emotions or motivations I'm not showing though for the most part. When people analyze me I feel like they think I'm holding something back when I'm really not and they are going to try to get it out of me by reading my body language.
ENTPs and ENFPs have it the worst, I think. We're Ne-doms, which means we voluntarily go N-sane in front of other people.
ENFJs have Fe first, which is all about being one of the group. They cater to the desires of the group. Their Ni is only secondary, and it's the "quiet N". It's all N their mind...some have considered it nearly a Thinking function.
ENFJs have Fe first, which is all about being one of the group. They cater to the desires of the group. Their Ni is only secondary, and it's the "quiet N". It's all N their mind...some have considered it nearly a Thinking function.
I don't know if this is helpful data, but I have a childlike innocence that people adore. This is accompanied by a playful side but also a hardworking nature. This is the reason people are attracted to me. I also have a natural confidence that in someway and someday, everything will be the way I want it to be. Not too interested in methods, but in the objective.
Maybe we use our intuition and abstract capacities to find what people like. It's like a natural inclination. And the feeling function helps us to adapt to them, with charming behaviors that differs from person to person. I think that's the reason we're so good, our Ni is inclined to social situations.
Maybe we use our intuition and abstract capacities to find what people like. It's like a natural inclination. And the feeling function helps us to adapt to them, with charming behaviors that differs from person to person. I think that's the reason we're so good, our Ni is inclined to social situations.
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