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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so today after work I swung by the parents' place to help my father move a new couch they had purchased. While moving it my mother informed me that her aunt had died, and since I was attempting to navigate a couch through an entryway pretty much by myself since my dad is 60, I didn't really respond at all. I just sort of said, "Oh," and went about my business. Now I wasn't very close with my great aunt. But to my mother she was like a second mother, I guess in my mom's teen years she didn't get along with her mom (my grandma) and her aunt lived next door and was much more open.

So it gets to be time for me to leave, and as I'm getting into my car she says, "Did you even hear me?"

"Hear what?" I asked.

"Hear me say that your aunt [Name Removed] died?"

"Yeah, I heard."

"So that's it? You're just gonna leave without saying a word to me?"

She then got teary eyed and accused me of being a sociopath who doesn't love anyone or even care when somebody dies. She then accused me of not even caring if she died. The entire time I was trying to say that I am who I am and that I do feel things, just in a different way and that she needed to stop thinking everyone experiences things the same way she does. However, once she said that I wouldn't care if she died I lost it and yelled at the top of my lungs, "You want some fucking emotion!?!? Here it is!! This is why I don't show it ever!!"

She then accused me of being bipolar for the outburst and then she called me a monster, at which point it I lost it even worse, outside in front of the neighbors I grew up around, and I then proceeded to... well... 'disassemble' a wooden adirondack chair with my bare hands, seeing as I wasn't really equipped to deal with my own mother saying I wouldn't grieve for her. She then called me a pyscho-path and said she was afraid of me, which is probably the worst thing anyone has ever said to me so I told her she was a horrible bitch and the meanest fucking person I've ever had the displeasure of knowing. We then agreed to never see one another again and I kicked a foot sized dent into my quarter panel before angrily speeding off.

So I'm at home now seething a bit. I spoke with my ISTP father about it and he says he stood up for me. But this isn't the first time incidents like this have happened: Something goes wrong in her life, she pushes my buttons, I break something, she accuses me of having a disorder, I call her a horrible bitch, and then she always apologizes when I come back to replace whatever I've broken.

I just wanna know if there's any way I can deal with her without putting on a show for the neighbors. I mean it's just so frustrating to try and explain to someone what I am and then be accused of being mentally ill. It literally just snow-balls, it's just so aggravating. Anyways, sorry if this is venty. But any suggestions are appreciated.

I dunno, do you feelers think I'm in the wrong here? I'm just not comfortable comforting people. I get the feeling she wants someone to share in the grief with. But I just can't. I've tried, and tried in past relationships, but it's just not something I've ever been able to do.
 

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I think I can understand and appreciate the T response... the detachment and lack of emotion. And I think there's a lot more to this situation than we outsiders can ever understand - like your entire relationship with your mother (growing up, etc.)

That said, it is from a Feeler-Judger point of view... straight up weird that you didn't acknowledge your aunt died. I'm assuming you knew your aunt. I'm assuming you might be kind of sad she died. If nothing else, you know your mom and you should realize that in order to appease her - you need to at least *appear* to be sad.

It kind of seems like a lack of effort or emotional maturity on your part not to attempt to comfort your mom just a little bit. And since I don't know your mom, I don't know if she's being irrational and demanding too much from you, or if you are just completely unwilling to bend to what you know she wants (perhaps because your relationship is too strained at this point).

But long story short, I don't think it's overly demanding that your mom wanted to be comforted after someone close to her died.

And it's not too much to ask you to try to help her feel better. That's not really a T or F thing. It's a sympathy thing.


EDIT: My apologies if that explanation comes across too direct. I figured I would write my response openly in my own perspective, as maybe that would help you understand where your mom is coming from. Maybe. Perhaps? haha.
 

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I'm just not comfortable comforting people. I get the feeling she wants someone to share in the grief with. But I just can't. I've tried, and tried in past relationships, but it's just not something I've ever been able to do.
Have you specifically tried explaining this to your mother? Preferably when she's not in emotional shambles, ready to crumble at any moment.

I understand that the whole "empathy/sympathy thing" doesn't come easily and naturally to you, but you might want to consider faking it, at least for her sake. If you know it will give your mom some comfort in her time of emotional need, why not? By no means am I expecting you to sit and let her pour out her life history with her aunt, weeping about the past, but some kind of emotional support or affection would have been nice in that situation. Of course, you did have your hands tied up at the moment when she broke the news to you (what terrible timing on her part), but I personally think you should have addressed that when she asked you about it later on.

When your response to the news was clipped, I assume she immediately went on the defensive. That would explain the outburst of you being a "bipolar psycopath". Since you didn't extend a helping hand when she wanted support, she dumped all of her baggage on you, regardless of whether you wanted it or not. :/

Anyway, your mom probably wasn't in the right mental state to be reasoned with logically; I hear that can happen when one goes into grieving of a deceased loved one. You're totally right, she just wants someone to share in the grief. But just remember that displaying something that doesn't come naturally, "fake" as you called it, isn't necessarily a bad thing--the facade is for your mother, not for yourself.
 

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"I'm sorry to hear that, are you okay?"

*she says some stuff*

"Well I hope you feel better"


Probably wouldn't play out that way exactly, but seems like she just wanted a tiny bit of acknowledgment at least. No worries if you just can't handle dealing with the extreme emotions I'm sure she had, but I think giving a few moments that might be painful for you would alleviate a lot of painful moments from your mom, regardless of how you deal with the world. Seems like a kindness thing to me. You can still believe and feel however you want in the back of your head, but it seems like you're being overly stubborn in my opinion. I'm sure there's more to the whole story though, so not sure if I can say much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think I can understand and appreciate the T response... the detachment and lack of emotion. And I think there's a lot more to this situation than we outsiders can ever understand - like your entire relationship with your mother (growing up, etc.)

That said, it is from a Feeler-Judger point of view... straight up weird that you didn't acknowledge your aunt died. I'm assuming you knew your aunt. I'm assuming you might be kind of sad she died. If nothing else, you know your mom and you should realize that in order to appease her - you need to at least *appear* to be sad.

It kind of seems like a lack of effort or emotional maturity on your part not to attempt to comfort your mom just a little bit. And since I don't know your mom, I don't know if she's being irrational and demanding too much from you, or if you are just completely unwilling to bend to what you know she wants (perhaps because your relationship is too strained at this point).

But long story short, I don't think it's overly demanding that your mom wanted to be comforted after someone close to her died.

And it's not too much to ask you to try to help her feel better. That's not really a T or F thing. It's a sympathy thing.


EDIT: My apologies if that explanation comes across too direct. I figured I would write my response openly in my own perspective, as maybe that would help you understand where your mom is coming from. Maybe. Perhaps? haha.
No need for apologies. If I'm doing something wrong here I want to know it. If criticism is warranted and backed by reasons, as a thinker, I'm helpless to do anything but analyze it and take it into consideration as an objective argument to how I could be flawed or in the wrong, so I very much appreciate the response.

As far as my relationship with her goes --going on 25 years here-- I'm definitely a bigger piece of her life than she is of mine, and as mean as that sounds it's just true. I spend most of my time with friends and such. I guess I just figured that having an ISTP dad who I'm practically exactly like would have acclimatized her to our apparent calloused-ness, though I can assure you we aren't that calloused. My first thought upon hearing about my great aunts death was, "I hope to God heaven does exist," and that's usually my first though whenever anyone dies.

But I suppose having only an ISTP and an occasional INTP around can seem fairly cold. Again, I don't want to sound mean, but she doesn't really have any friends, even the ones she does have she generally just complains about. Nobody seems to ever be morally up to snuff in her book and I don't know if I'm cold from a vengeful standpoint or not... for some reason just the thought of a sobbing person in my arms makes me really, really uncomfortable, and it even repulses me a little. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just explaining what I feel. I also get the impression that she's extremely perplexed at the fact that I'm genuinely not angry with her the next day: her apologies are always heartfelt; I usually look like nothing happened before.

I suppose biting the bullet on my end and acting concerned to preempt such things would be the grown up thing to do rather than engaging in some sort of power struggle. Thanks again for the responses. :)
 

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If you can't deal with the comforting her part, you should at least recognize that in her grief she is not going to be in a stable sort of mind and therefore, even looking at it from a completely logical standpoint, when she started to attack you, really you could have just swallowed your pride and bitten your lip, and said something simple and honest like "I'm sorry, I know you are sad but I can't think of anything that I could say to help you feel better." Instead, you reacted to her irrational reactions and escalated the situation until it got out of hand.

You're both in the wrong for what you said to each other, and likely neither of you meant what you said, at least not to the extreme that it came out. But since you acknowledge that she's going through a rough time of things, perhaps you should apologize to her this time for flying off the handle, and tell her you understand why she reacted the way she did, but you would appreciate it in future if she didn't insinuate that you don't care about her and have a mental illness just because you react to things in a different way to her. If she starts getting emotional and reactive again, just calmly tell her that you love/respect her too much to have this blow up again and leave.

Basically, if you're going to defend your unemotional way of being, then remain unemotional. All you've done so far is give her a tonne of emotion, but of the kind that is not useful to her. But f that's all she can get out of you, then that's what she's going to angle for again and again - negative emotion, however upsetting, is something she can relate to you through.
 

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Communication.

What do you really want your mother to know about you? That you are a heartless person who does not care about his own family or someone who does care but is just not comfortable with emotional display.

As the communicator, it is up to you to make you mother see what it is you want her see about you. Next time instead of doing what you always do, try something new and see if that works better. You two speak different languages. You need to learn her language if you want to show her that you love her and care for her.

You do not have to constantly have super long gushy conversations with her spilling your guts and listening to her spill her guts, but you should respond something like this maybe:

Mom: Aunt died.

You: Oh, no. Hold on let me put this down.

You: How did it happen?

Mom: bla bla bla bla bla bla bla... while you go about your business nodding every once in a while.

You: Give her a hug.

After that you change the subject so it does not go on and on forever. She will think you care and now you won't get into a fight and it only took about 5 to 15 minutes.

Only one possible problem with this scenario. If she is so used to getting in fights with you about this stuff she might to it subconsciously out of habit with out you provoking it. YOU MUST HAVE PATIENTS AND UNDERSTANDING THE FIRST TIME THIS HAPPENS OR THE CYCLE WILL CONTINUE. Get through it and next time she will have more confidence in you. If she still pics fights all the time when you are actually trying to show you care in her language, you need to have a calm conversation with her about it when you are not angry with each other.

And that is all I got. Good luck. I really hope you two can figure out how to patch things up and get along better.
 

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Tell her that part, and you'll likely see a different reaction from her. :happy:
No offense, guys, but a lot of this advice comes from an INFJ viewpoint... we need to understand his POV.

It's his core nature to analyze events like these rationally. So asking him to show an emotive response, is like asking him to lie and betray his nature. Imagine how awkward that must be!

I have an INTP friend and she is the same way. She hates being forced to do or say things on behalf of other people's "feelings". It just isn't cool for her because she feels very awkward/unnatural doing it. This doesn't mean she is a bad person, and she expresses her love/friendship in more concrete ways.

I dunno, do you feelers think I'm in the wrong here? I'm just not comfortable comforting people. I get the feeling she wants someone to share in the grief with. But I just can't. I've tried, and tried in past relationships, but it's just not something I've ever been able to do.
I'm amazed your mother doesn't understand how you feel, especially considering her husband, Train. But I'd say that this argument (especially considering you say it's a long lasting one) has very little to do with your aunt. It's probably more about the relationship between you and your mom and her fears that you don't love her.

I'm guessing that all this is just a symptom.

Perhaps if you could do something for her (Something around the house or some other gesture)... and explain to her that you doing things of that nature is your way of expressing the bond you have with her. Explain that you do feel things, but you express them differently. Maybe she would understand that. If not... then she isn't really being very fair to you.
 

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No offense, guys, but a lot of this advice comes from an INFJ viewpoint... we need to understand his POV.

It's his core nature to analyze events like these rationally. So asking him to show an emotive response, is like asking him to lie and betray his nature. Imagine how awkward that must be!

I have an INTP friend and she is the same way. She hates being forced to do or say things on behalf of other people's "feelings". It just isn't cool for her because she feels very awkward/unnatural doing it. This doesn't mean she is a bad person, and she expresses her love/friendship in more concrete ways.
Actually, isn't the goal to be mature? Isn't the way we become mature according to Carl Jung and Myers Briggs, to try and balance out and use all the functions to a healthy degree? Should we INFJs live in fear and denial of our Se forever or should we conquer it so we can be happy and stop forcing our shadows on others? Should INTPs aspire to be their aspirational function or not?
 

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Actually, isn't the goal to be mature? Isn't the way we become mature according to Carl Jung and Myers Briggs, to try and balance out and use all the functions to a healthy degree? Should we INFJs live in fear and denial of our Se forever or should we conquer it so we can be happy and stop forcing our shadows on others? Should INTPs aspire to be their aspirational function or not?
Yes, we should definitely aim to mature. :wink: I am very jealous of sensors when it comes to certain situations. I was at a disadvantage against Sensors when I first began practicing Jiujitsu and I am trying to learn to sense like they can.

However... from the INTPs I've seen in my life, demanding that they have the same emotive response to an INFJ just isn't a reasonable request. The INTP way is just different than ours. They express themselves in different ways and trying to "teach" them to behave how we think they should just seems...

Well if I were an INTP, I would not appreciate being forced into such a position.

I just hope that the INFJ mother might come to understand her son and that his "way" doesn't mean that he loves her any less.
 

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Yes, we should definitely aim to mature. :wink: I am very jealous of sensors when it comes to certain situations. I was at a disadvantage against Sensors when I first began practicing Jiujitsu and I am trying to learn to sense like they can.

However... from the INTPs I've seen in my life, demanding that they have the same emotive response to an INFJ just isn't a reasonable request. The INTP way is just different than ours. They express themselves in different ways and trying to "teach" them to behave how we think they should just seems...

Well if I were an INTP, I would not appreciate being forced into such a position.

I just hope that the INFJ mother might come to understand her son and that his "way" doesn't mean that he loves her any less.
I definitely think it takes two to tango. Both parties need to make an adjustment to make it work but someone has to start.

Trainwreck,

So this is something about you that your mother feels is inhibiting your relationship. Is there something that she does that you feel is inhibiting your relationship? - and you can't say she pushes me to do this more, you have to pick something outside of these instances you are talking about in this thread.

If you work on getting the problem that you have with her understood and resolved you may have less pent up resentment to her for it and be less held back from showing emotional support to her in the cases where she needs an adjustment from you.
 

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I hope we're helping you in regards to the situation. :proud:

I tried to edit & make as clear as possible. Just bear with me and read throught it. I can only speak from personal experience obviously. But, I can trust another INFJ to speak up if I am totally out of line!

We, in reality, need/ask for very little in the world. We only open ourselves up to a small select few. Of the few that we truly let into our hearts, it is vital to our health (mental, physical, etc.) to hear from them once in awhile that we mean something to them. Reason being - we give our all to those few individuals we open up to. We do not ask for anything in return. To clarify, we don't do things because we are hoping for something in return. We don't do things because we want our names written in the sky. We do things for them because their joy is truly our joy. I shit you not.

If my close friend gets a promotion she has worked hard for, I will be floating on air the rest of the day, as if I personally got that promotion. If my son comes home with a good score on a subject he has been struggling with, it might as well be me coming through the door with the good news. If my close friend's 18 year old cat dies, I will cry my eyes out as if my cat died. To clarify, I'm not taking credit for their success or grief, I'm in it with them. This is why we can only allow a few into our lives...it's exhausting living out that many lives emotionally!

We will work tirelessly in the background, to make their lives easier, happier, smoother, etc. We naturally anticipate what they will need before they do. We're so good at doing it, that those individuals are rarely aware of just what lengths we go to on their behalf day after day. I don't want them to know. Because I don't want them to feel indebted to me because of things I do for them that they didn't even ask for. It's just how I am. I cannot be any other way.

Aside from anything I do or don't do for those few people, I thrive on any acknowledgement from them that they enjoy having me in their lives. That because they've known me, their lives have been a little richer. Any signs that they "see" me. Not the masks I put on, but *me* the person underneath. That they thought enough of me as a human being to *want* to do something for me and not because they have to. And not because we had to spell it out, but because we were noticed enough by them that they knew what we would like or enjoy. Even if it meant doing something we understand to be hard for you as a person such as an awkward hug. Or permission to cry in front of you. (I know it's retarded & irrational, but a head nod from a trusted loved one that it's ok to cry niagara falls in front of them is one of the most healing things a person can "allow" me to do.) And yes, sometimes all we need to know to get us through super tough times is that those few people would be upset or hell, even notice, if we suddenly dropped dead. We can assume it, but we just need to hear it from those people once in awhile that we mean something in their lives.

But, if we're completely starved of that very little, from those few? We can appear flatout psycho to the very ones we hold most dear, especially during times of grief & intense stress. Most INFJs will rarely ever meet someone who would even think about doing for us what we do for others. And we aren't asking for it. Just throw us a bone once in awhile - it can keep us going forever like the energizer bunny. Plus, we'll go the extra mile to back off on all the things that we know annoy you since we'll be too busy humming happily, "I know my son loves me in his own way, even though he doesn't show it the same way as me,...." Quietly in our head of course. :crazy:

*NOTE - Sorry I keep jumping from 1st to 3rd person. I already spent too much time on the post to go back and correct it. argh.
 

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Lots of good advice has already been given in this thread, but I'll just add a few more things.

As far as my relationship with her goes --going on 25 years here-- I'm definitely a bigger piece of her life than she is of mine, and as mean as that sounds it's just true. I spend most of my time with friends and such. I guess I just figured that having an ISTP dad who I'm practically exactly like would have acclimatized her to our apparent calloused-ness, though I can assure you we aren't that calloused.
...
But I suppose having only an ISTP and an occasional INTP around can seem fairly cold. Again, I don't want to sound mean, but she doesn't really have any friends, even the ones she does have she generally just complains about. Nobody seems to ever be morally up to snuff in her book and I don't know if I'm cold from a vengeful standpoint or not...
Children will always be a bigger part of their parent's lives than parents will be of theirs. No matter how old you are, she will always be your mother and continue to want to have a bond with you. In family of two people with dominant thinker function, it sounds like she may be starved for some emotional support and validation. Friends can't really replace family in this respect. If your family, the people who are closest to you, rarely tells you a word of support or encouragement, then of course you are going to feel very bad about it. ISTPs btw are better at this validation stuff than INTPs as they are classed as positivist, like INFJs, and thus are more likely to make complimenting and glass-is-half-full kind of comments than INTPs. INTPs may sound more critical in comparison so you may be actually coming through as colder than your father to her.

My first thought upon hearing about my great aunts death was, "I hope to God heaven does exist," and that's usually my first though whenever anyone dies.
You should express such thoughts, not just think them to yourself. People can't read your mind and at the end of the day they will judge you by what you have said and done, not what you thought to yourself. It might feel uncomfortable and awkward because I know Ti hates Fe and suppresses it, but it is the only way. Persuade your Ti that expressions of Fe are perfectly fine. For example, when your mother tells you X person in the family has died, finish carrying furniture or doing whatever it is you were doing, come up to her say 2-3 sentences giving your condolences, and walk away. Thus you can avoid any follow-up incidents before the neighbors. This would have been the perfectly logical course of action.

... for some reason just the thought of a sobbing person in my arms makes me really, really uncomfortable, and it even repulses me a little.
Yeah the T and F functions are actually repulsive to one another. I remember when I was in teens I had a bad week at school and underslept several nights, so I just broke out crying in group of friends and acquaintances over some small thing. Some people started consoling me but one guy immediately started mocking me for it. I now understand that he was probably just acting out his logical function that was repulsed by my expression of feelings. But likewise my feeling function was very much repulsed by his reaction to my crying. I hated his guts for this and started acting very cold and critical towards him. When your mother is calling you a psychopath or whatever she is expressing the frustration her Fe feels when she encounters huge doses of Ti in you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I hope we're helping you in regards to the situation. :proud:

I tried to edit & make as clear as possible. Just bear with me and read throught it. I can only speak from personal experience obviously. But, I can trust another INFJ to speak up if I am totally out of line!

We, in reality, need/ask for very little in the world. We only open ourselves up to a small select few. Of the few that we truly let into our hearts, it is vital to our health (mental, physical, etc.) to hear from them once in awhile that we mean something to them. Reason being - we give our all to those few individuals we open up to. We do not ask for anything in return. To clarify, we don't do things because we are hoping for something in return. We don't do things because we want our names written in the sky. We do things for them because their joy is truly our joy. I shit you not.

If my close friend gets a promotion she has worked hard for, I will be floating on air the rest of the day, as if I personally got that promotion. If my son comes home with a good score on a subject he has been struggling with, it might as well be me coming through the door with the good news. If my close friend's 18 year old cat dies, I will cry my eyes out as if my cat died. To clarify, I'm not taking credit for their success or grief, I'm in it with them. This is why we can only allow a few into our lives...it's exhausting living out that many lives emotionally!

We will work tirelessly in the background, to make their lives easier, happier, smoother, etc. We naturally anticipate what they will need before they do. We're so good at doing it, that those individuals are rarely aware of just what lengths we go to on their behalf day after day. I don't want them to know. Because I don't want them to feel indebted to me because of things I do for them that they didn't even ask for. It's just how I am. I cannot be any other way.

Aside from anything I do or don't do for those few people, I thrive on any acknowledgement from them that they enjoy having me in their lives. That because they've known me, their lives have been a little richer. Any signs that they "see" me. Not the masks I put on, but *me* the person underneath. That they thought enough of me as a human being to *want* to do something for me and not because they have to. And not because we had to spell it out, but because we were noticed enough by them that they knew what we would like or enjoy. Even if it meant doing something we understand to be hard for you as a person such as an awkward hug. Or permission to cry in front of you. (I know it's retarded & irrational, but a head nod from a trusted loved one that it's ok to cry niagara falls in front of them is one of the most healing things a person can "allow" me to do.) And yes, sometimes all we need to know to get us through super tough times is that those few people would be upset or hell, even notice, if we suddenly dropped dead. We can assume it, but we just need to hear it from those people once in awhile that we mean something in their lives.

But, if we're completely starved of that very little, from those few? We can appear flatout psycho to the very ones we hold most dear, especially during times of grief & intense stress. Most INFJs will rarely ever meet someone who would even think about doing for us what we do for others. And we aren't asking for it. Just throw us a bone once in awhile - it can keep us going forever like the energizer bunny. Plus, we'll go the extra mile to back off on all the things that we know annoy you since we'll be too busy humming happily, "I know my son loves me in his own way, even though he doesn't show it the same way as me,...." Quietly in our head of course. :crazy:

*NOTE - Sorry I keep jumping from 1st to 3rd person. I already spent too much time on the post to go back and correct it. argh.
Okay, there's so much great content in this thread from everyone, and as a thinker, I'm on cloud nine analyzing all of this :laughing:

I don't know how to quote multiple people in a single response so I think I'm gonna have to do more than one response, but I'll start here because I think it's explained a staggering amount of things for me about my mom.


"We will work tirelessly in the background, to make their lives easier, happier, smoother, etc. We naturally anticipate what they will need before they do. We're so good at doing it, that those individuals are rarely aware of just what lengths we go to on their behalf day after day. I don't want them to know. Because I don't want them to feel indebted to me because of things I do for them that they didn't even ask for. It's just how I am. I cannot be any other way."

This explains a great deal of tumult growing up. As an INTP I strive for independence and when someone offers me help, especially my mother, I interpret it as that person thinks I'm incompetent. As an INTP my worst fear is of being incompetent, and in the moments when I've found myself most afraid, like tripping on drugs or having a panic attack the thought that I've lost my sanity is the one that frightens me the absolute most and has left me cowering in the fetal position while everyone else is laughing their asses off having the time of their lives. And that fear may also explain why when she accuses me of being mentally incompetent or unstable that I react so emotionally to it. Especially considering she is largely unaware of a lot of the things I've been through and beaten without her even knowing, and I'm reticent to share them with because she worries sooooooooo much.

I know someone earlier had told me to remain cool and patient, but she was in what she even has dubbed, "Attack Mode," and for some reason she's the only one who can make me lose my cool like that. For some reason my parent thinking I'm flawed mentally just cuts through my armor into the emotion, and I don't do emotions well.

"If my close friend gets a promotion she has worked hard for, I will be floating on air the rest of the day, as if I personally got that promotion. If my son comes home with a good score on a subject he has been struggling with, it might as well be me coming through the door with the good news. If my close friend's 18 year old cat dies, I will cry my eyes out as if my cat died. To clarify, I'm not taking credit for their success or grief, I'm in it with them. This is why we can only allow a few into our lives...it's exhausting living out that many lives emotionally!"

This would explain a few things as well. When I got my first job out of college she was so excited; however, I remained reticent to share anything because I honestly really didn't feel much about it. It was the objective I set out to accomplish, and I found it to be largely too easy an accomplishment. That was exactly my feelings. And when she called wanting to buy me dinner and I wasn't really excited about the prospect we had a small phone fight about it because she was concerned that I was suffering from depression or something, and when she shows concern for me, I consider it, "She thinks I'm incompetent or somehow flawed," and such an 'accusation', as I perceive it, is to me the ultimate insult.

I had a similar encounter with an ex at her college grad party about a year and a half ago. I don't know her type for sure, if I were to guess I'd say ISFP. But when she said I was, "that friend who never seemed to be able to take care of himself," because I drank so much in college, I just up and left her grad party, apparently embarrassing her an indignant amount. But I mean sophomore year of college I got off a greyhound bus after spending two days in detox, walked across town, walked into the classroom ten minutes late, and still got a 92% on my public finance test which was scheduled for that day. Not taking care of myself? I've accomplished damn near everything in my life on my own and never asked anyone for any damn help, yet she thinks I need it? And done it all with the handicap of being an outrageously self destructive person.

Now I'm lashing out at an ex on here.. lol.

I think that's all the logic I can squeeze from this amazing post. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yes, we should definitely aim to mature. :wink: I am very jealous of sensors when it comes to certain situations. I was at a disadvantage against Sensors when I first began practicing Jiujitsu and I am trying to learn to sense like they can.

However... from the INTPs I've seen in my life, demanding that they have the same emotive response to an INFJ just isn't a reasonable request. The INTP way is just different than ours. They express themselves in different ways and trying to "teach" them to behave how we think they should just seems...

Well if I were an INTP, I would not appreciate being forced into such a position.

I just hope that the INFJ mother might come to understand her son and that his "way" doesn't mean that he loves her any less.
Try rolling with your eyes closed, or just closing them once you guys hit the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I definitely think it takes two to tango. Both parties need to make an adjustment to make it work but someone has to start.

Trainwreck,

So this is something about you that your mother feels is inhibiting your relationship. Is there something that she does that you feel is inhibiting your relationship? - and you can't say she pushes me to do this more, you have to pick something outside of these instances you are talking about in this thread.

If you work on getting the problem that you have with her understood and resolved you may have less pent up resentment to her for it and be less held back from showing emotional support to her in the cases where she needs an adjustment from you.
Does anything from the first response to Bright Laughter count or should I post moar? :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ISTPs btw are better at this validation stuff than INTPs as they are classed as positivist, like INFJs, and thus are more likely to make complimenting and glass-is-half-full kind of comments than INTPs. INTPs may sound more critical in comparison so you may be actually coming through as colder than your father to her.

When your mother is calling you a psychopath or whatever she is expressing the frustration her Fe feels when she encounters huge doses of Ti in you.
Yeah, my dad has like an aura about him. It's almost kind of creepy. Animals and children just flock to him, hell, he's probably covered in birds right now or some other goofy shit. It's the damnedest thing. When I was in scouts as a kid, everyone had fled in fear because a black bear had wandered into camp. My dad walks up casually and pets the effing thing and then he just tells it to leave, and it does! @[email protected]

I hope someday I can achieve his sage status. I guess he was hellishly wild until my mom came around (biker gang). Maybe that's where I get it from...

But as for the Fe reacting to the Ti, you don't even want to hear how our political discussions wind up.
 

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I can relate to this, with my ESFJ mom. She disowned me at least twice when I was between the ages of 23-26, because of the arguments we got into. But we don't get into arguments like that anymore, because I've learned which topics to avoid, instead beating my head against a wall, once again.

Your mistake was to try to explain yourself. It would sound like you're making an excuse, or something, from her perspective, and then she will belittle what you said, which will (did) cause you flip out.

I think INTPs pretty much have an on or off switch when it comes to emotions, and we don't like other people knowing about them unless we're not worried about a negative response.
 
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