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Discussion Starter #1
I believe my functions to be Ti - Ne (not sure which is first), then the rest are all just a mess after that with very low Si and even lower Se. :crying:

I am interested in developing Se.

How2?

Halp plz! :proud:
 
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Well, you'd have to shut off all the cognitive functions you have on top of it to be fully consciously using Se.

So, stop thinking and only give attention to sensory data- Do not interpret it.
I recommend Zazen meditation. :]

Edit: Actually, I think I should expand on that a bit.
It's not just what activities you do to try and engage your Se, but how you engage the activities themselves. You can have an option of using certain functions to achieve a certain, desired effect. Self-conditioning and preference makes some of these functions not used as much as others- But they're far from being totally unused.
Se is pretty close to the top on my list, so to use it, I don't need to consciously engage it as much.
Others may not be as easy to consciously engage- So they're engaged in stressful situations. IE: When your most-trusted functions fail you. The subconscious turns to alternatives, in stress, and goes to the less-used functions to solve the problem. The problem is that one hasn't consciously engaged these functions, so their use is pretty sloppy.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to use Se like an ESTP. When you consciously engage a cognitive function that has been left neglected, the other functions must be "shut out" of the active, conscious mind at that time so that Se-ness(This may be applied to other functions) may take the complete head. This is the reason I plug meditation so often. You have to be able to shut out internal and external stimuli in order to engage, analyze and begin to integrate unused functions into conscious perception.

Some other recommendations for Se:
Look at something. Don't see what it could be.
A tip for this to help you begin engaging the Se using your Ti is to look at the physical structure, then describe to yourself the physical aspects of it. Picture it in your mind(Ni). Try and narrow it down, more and more, until you simply SEE it with no thought. The amount of clutter or fog in your picture in your mind will give you a clue as to how strongly you're engaging your Se and, to a good extent, your Ni. The longer you can simply look at an object, without engaging your dominant function, will tell you how well you're engaging your Se.

Double edit: So, I ended up expanding quite a bit. So sue me.
 

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I recommend Bikram (hot ) yoga. It's the only thing that gets me present in my body again. It's awesome too. Feels like Nirvana when you're done.
 

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I recommend a martial art because nothing will make you be in-the-moment like getting kicked in your head. :tongue:
I'd be willing to say the same thing; however I think someone that is high on the Ne would be too busy trying to predict the moves of their opponent- Using their strengths. Over time, they'd develop their Se as they learn but I think it would take longer for an Ne user to get used to Se via just doing an activity most would think Se-users would be attracted to. Not to mention that frustration may make them resist the process a bit more.
 

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I'd be willing to say the same thing; however I think someone that is high on the Ne would be too busy trying to predict the moves of their opponent- Using their strengths. Over time, they'd develop their Se as they learn but I think it would take longer for an Ne user to get used to Se via just doing an activity most would think Se-users would be attracted to. Not to mention that frustration may make them resist the process a bit more.
This is a good point. I haven't learned enough about MBTI to really look at it like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This has all been extremely insightful so far, and I thank you all muchly. :crazy:
 
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"We need emotional content. "Don’t think… feel. It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon… (Whap on the head from the instructor.) Don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory. Do you understand?’"
-Bruce Lee, Enter The Dragon.
 

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I'd be willing to say the same thing; however I think someone that is high on the Ne would be too busy trying to predict the moves of their opponent- Using their strengths. Over time, they'd develop their Se as they learn but I think it would take longer for an Ne user to get used to Se via just doing an activity most would think Se-users would be attracted to. Not to mention that frustration may make them resist the process a bit more.
um...this is true, it IS hard at first, but I strongly support ThoughtProcess's advice because it worked wonders for me - and don't be afraid to be kicked in the head :D, you can start learning a martial art without interaction and it works as well for the first steps.
Now, for a long time I was more 'busy' thinking 'what shall I do next' instead of 'what will my opponent do next' but the dont't think line is good as well. If you can think, you can make yourself think to not think, right? Start there.

only, martial arts are the same at core i think, but not for starters; you should choose one your Ne likes more so you don't quit on the first difficulties :)
 

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I recommend a martial art because nothing will make you be in-the-moment like getting kicked in your head. :tongue:
I will second this. Doing this right now and it seems to develop both Se and Si - there is requirement for rapid movement, body memory, lots of physical contact, need to pay attention to the here and now, and hardest for me so far was has been the need to yell out when you're doing exercises - just feels completely unnatural - I definitely get a feeling for how inferior function can be so frustrating to use. I usually start drifting off towards end of the lessons as my N rebels against all this abuse :p
 

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Se is just acting and reacting. You have external stimuli hitting you and you do something. Or you can act then react to how something else reacts to you. It could potentially go on for quite some time.

Have sex!

Buy really good headphones, like the Ultrasone HFI-780's I have, and a really good sounding mp3 player, like a Cowon S9 or J3 that has crossfeed (a mechanism that fixes the inherent problems of listening to audio mixed for a stereo system through headphones.)

That's how I do it. Though Yoga is intriguing as well.

Se, like the baby was saying, is about doing and not thinking about the details. Sensing for Se-preferrers is a blob of sensory input that has no concept of time but makes up for that in the indescribable nuance that... Si obviously can't describe :p. It doesn't care about words.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
To be in the moment, would this include ignoring the underlying meanings behind the things that I notice in the environment.

For example, I was in the grocery store and I noticed an older man who was trailing behind everyone else looking very out of place. I determined based upon a few things that hes an enneagram 5. I then began to observe his wife, wondering how they ever ended up together, as she is a very extroverted enneagram 2. I wondered how much of his life must be spend being dragged along by this woman. I wondered what he does for relief.

I find it hard to be in the moment because my brain is so noisy. I am wondering what parts of it I need to try to keep silent. Its like every little thing I see, theres the potential to ponder it endlessly. Its tiring.
 

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You don't need Se, Ne can appear as Se if trained properly.

Ne is still externally focused, when it is evolved it will be able to work strongly with a wide range of external data, and consider it in an abstract sense. Taking in external data so quickly would appear as an Se, but you would still be an Ne.

That's my theory at least: Functions in mature levels will act similarly to their mirror (Se->Ne, Te->Fe, etc) You only need the 4 functions of your type, to function.
 

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To be in the moment, would this include ignoring the underlying meanings behind the things that I notice in the environment.

For example, I was in the grocery store and I noticed an older man who was trailing behind everyone else looking very out of place. I determined based upon a few things that hes an enneagram 5. I then began to observe his wife, wondering how they ever ended up together, as she is a very extroverted enneagram 2. I wondered how much of his life must be spend being dragged along by this woman. I wondered what he does for relief.

I find it hard to be in the moment because my brain is so noisy. I am wondering what parts of it I need to try to keep silent. Its like every little thing I see, theres the potential to ponder it endlessly. Its tiring.
This is where martial arts comes into play. If you spend that much time thinking, you're going to get hit a lot during sparring.
 

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Rock climbing is good. You do have to focus on where you put your hands and feet so as not to fall off the cliff. It's hard to allow your attention to wander. You can take Ne breaks on belays (but don't let your climbing partner know you are doing this).

I have tried to develop Se, not consciously to develop a function, but to write better descriptive work. Tried to take myself on sensory journeys when I was out running, considering each sense in turn: smell, sight, hearing, the touch of the ground under my feet, you know. Obviously I drift, and find that I end up with a lot more triggers for insights, but it was interesting.

Something I won't share in detail, but once when asked to contemplate a stretch of something natural for a poetry exercise, and "write what you see, DON'T interpret".......I got lost in a Ni experience that was very weird. Got lost on the way to sensing, it would seem......
 

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go to the mall. look for objects that catch your eye, and your eye alone. If your gut says "Oo what is that?" then go explore it.

From what I understand of the functions, and INTP such as yourself would probably just be using Ne to do this anyway, and you don't actually have the ability to use Se.

Then again I haven't meditated or consciously tried to use any of the other functions. Whenever I think I'm using Ne in my out of control thoughts, its usually because I'm in a very busy place and just thinking about everything within visual range (Se).
 

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To be in the moment, would this include ignoring the underlying meanings behind the things that I notice in the environment.

For example, I was in the grocery store and I noticed an older man who was trailing behind everyone else looking very out of place. I determined based upon a few things that hes an enneagram 5. I then began to observe his wife, wondering how they ever ended up together, as she is a very extroverted enneagram 2. I wondered how much of his life must be spend being dragged along by this woman. I wondered what he does for relief.

I find it hard to be in the moment because my brain is so noisy. I am wondering what parts of it I need to try to keep silent. Its like every little thing I see, theres the potential to ponder it endlessly. Its tiring.
I'm no expert, but that sounds Fi to me.
 

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You don't need Se, Ne can appear as Se if trained properly.
I believe that it is imperative for me to have Se. If I don't focus on the "here and now", I will get lost in thoughts in my head. Thoughts can spin out of control. Paying attention to the senses and experiencing them as they are happening are very important for grounding me and staying "present" and not lost in my head. It's been hard to stop analyzing everything, even feelings. Experiencing sensations keeps me "in my body" and not "out there".

I just thought of two more things that helped me up my Se a little. One of course was therapy-I had to learn to experience my environment other wise I'd go into panic attacks. Sometimes I can just ground myself by looking at a doorknob and studying it while I'm breathing. That will help come back to earth. Also, constant scanning of my real environment; the color of the table in front of me, how it feels in the chair I'm sitting on, looking up at the ceiling at noticing the cracks, the color, etc.

A good run will bust my head out of the clouds too. I can always tell, too because I become much more aware of scents and tastes afterwards. I can smell the air when I'm done running. In fact, I finally become aware of the air after I run.

Not that you have to go and do this, but I was in a relationship with an Se dom for 2 years. The relationship taught me so much about being more aware of "experiencing" my current taste, touch, smell, physical feelings in my own body. It really helped. I will never really be as Se dom as my ex. But I've really strengthened it as a function and I don't regret at all. I can see how it just keeps increasing.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I'm no expert, but that sounds Fi to me.
You are half right here. You are no expert.

Its Ne.

"Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership."

P.S. I'm not the one to troll here. Just sayin'. Any of your cognitive functions can probably make sense of that no brainer.
 
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