[Aleks_Sasha]

I've read a few descriptions but still consider myself in between. I consider the external world as an important factor in my decisions most of the time, but I also have a relatively good connection with my thought processes and the kind of feelings I have, if not really the feelings themselves. I'm emotional and sensitive but also rather stoic.

On an actual introversion/extroversion scale, I'm a bit more introverted but not significantly so. Is there a function where you're completely contradictory or in the middle of every scale?

I feel like there's a fairly obvious way to determine your dom cognitive function but I haven't encountered it yet.

 

[islandlight]

I came at it from a different angle. I did a test (with a certified practitioner), and several reality checks, e.g., online tests. I'm INTP. Therefore Ti dom.

 

[FaeSoleil]

I'm kinda in the same boat myself. I haven't really heard of a description of Ni vs Ne that clearly distinguishes them for me, and doesn't tend to make me feel "but I tend to do both...?". I'd recommend just actually reading descriptions of the functions and seeing which matches your internal thought process best (if you haven't already). It might not be immediately (or... ever) clear, but you should be able to get it down to 1-3 possibilities from that.

As best I can tell, my dom is somewhere between Ni/Ne by Socionics' definitions and I can't rule out Fi either going by MBTI's definitions.

 

[Joe Black]

I'm kinda in the same boat myself. I haven't really heard of a description of Ni vs Ne that clearly distinguishes them for me, and doesn't tend to make me feel "but I tend to do both...?". I'd recommend just actually reading descriptions of the functions and seeing which matches your internal thought process best (if you haven't already). It might not be immediately (or... ever) clear, but you should be able to get it down to 1-3 possibilities from that.

As best I can tell, my dom is somewhere between Ni/Ne by Socionics' definitions and I can't rule out Fi either going by MBTI's definitions.

I notice the difference more easily when I speak to INxJs vs xNTPs (The INTPs are Ne).

• In any given amount of time, Ni conversations are also prone to go in more deep on a few topics. Ne conversations like going through many topics lightly.
• I find that xNTPs are more "open minded" and fascinated to hear differing opinions about ideas and theories. And I find it fun to talk to them because they're more open. I find it jarring to talk to INxJs who have differing opinions to myself (INFJ too). Disagreeing is not as fun between INxJs, but more fun with Ne types. so xNTPs, because they'll address it logically and hold it less close to their heart. Ni Doms They tend to be more prone to tunnel vision. Ni wants to zone in or sort out & organize right from wrong, or at least arrive to conclusions rather than just let the ideas sit everywhere. Not that Ne users never come to conclusions, that's for their judging functions to do that, but that they're happy to find as many theories or ideas.

So essentially:
Ne

• It's about Ideating (Brain storming, coming up with ideas)
• More diverse conversations topics in a given amount of time.
• More open minded and fascinated with all ideas and theories.

Ni

• It's about Knowing
• Fewer but deeper conversations topics in a given amount of time.
• More narrower focus on ideas and theories. (more prone to tunnel vision)

And you're a normal person for being able to do both, but it's more about what you naturally prefer in the same amount of time. Today I was talking to an INTP about this one topic deeply and he was saturated and wanted to talk about other things. I'd be interested in a study of number of conversation topics per hour between Ni people and Ne people.

This page is good at summarising/simplifying the 8 functions.

The 8 Functions: Roles, Images & Characteristics | Personality Junkie

Contents I. Analytic Approach to the 8 Functions II. Holistic Approach: "Function Roles" Fi: "Valuing" Fe: "Connecting" Ti: "Reasoning" Te: "Structuring" Ni: "Knowing" Ne: "Ideating"…

personalityjunkie.com

 

[tanstaafl28]

I've read a few descriptions but still consider myself in between. I consider the external world as an important factor in my decisions most of the time, but I also have a relatively good connection with my thought processes and the kind of feelings I have, if not really the feelings themselves. I'm emotional and sensitive but also rather stoic.

On an actual introversion/extroversion scale, I'm a bit more introverted but not significantly so. Is there a function where you're completely contradictory or in the middle of every scale?

I feel like there's a fairly obvious way to determine your dom cognitive function but I haven't encountered it yet.

The funny thing about being a Ne dom is that, despite the fact that intuition is a subconscious process, the outcomes tend to get all sorts of attention (and not all of it good). I don't think Ni is quite that loud.

 

[Joe Black]

I've read a few descriptions but still consider myself in between. I consider the external world as an important factor in my decisions most of the time, but I also have a relatively good connection with my thought processes and the kind of feelings I have, if not really the feelings themselves. I'm emotional and sensitive but also rather stoic.

On an actual introversion/extroversion scale, I'm a bit more introverted but not significantly so. Is there a function where you're completely contradictory or in the middle of every scale?

I feel like there's a fairly obvious way to determine your dom cognitive function but I haven't encountered it yet.

Ahhh..
I've realised recently that I'm and Omnivert. So very extroverted and outgoing under the right conditions, otherwise very introverted and shy (So that seems contradictory). If you are indeed ISFJ, then we both share the Fe-Ti functions in 2nd and 3rd. Your Fe in 2nd give you your "not super full introvert" status. So you can be introverted without being more reclusive, or a decent amount of social energy. as opposed to INTPs who are Fe-inferiors, which makes their social energy capacity much lower than IxFJs.

I find this "half way" between one and the other position tends to come from the 3rd function. Your 3rd Ti gives you your logical/rational slant, even though you're a "F" type according to the 4 letters ISFJ, your 3rd, Ti is still there. As opposed to IxFJs who have Ti as the shadow of their inferior. (8th function?). So not all Feeling types are equally "emotional or rational".

The nature of their Dominant Extroverted or Introverted function. e.g. Se or Fe Doms typically appear "very very outgoing and extroverted.". Ne doms seem ambiverted as it seems more like a cerebral perceiving function. Te Dom seem fearless from speaking out like an extrovert, but not thirsty for sensations like Se doms, and not thirsty for social interaction like Fe. An ESFP (Se dom) on youtube said that she seeks sensations over people and that people can tire them out. Even thought ESFPs seem to have unlimited energy and never tire out.

 

[NipNip]

Stress reactions are a good measure.

Or the 'standard' you feel yourself gravitating towards, even though 49% of the time might be the exception.

 

[Aleks_Sasha]

Stress reactions are a good measure.

Or the 'standard' you feel yourself gravitating towards, even though 49% of the time might be the exception.

How do different dominant cognitive functions react in stress? I've read several descriptions but haven't seen anything about that yet. That'd be a good way to type since I'm better at going off specific information than an entire whole.

 

[Joe Black]

How do different dominant cognitive functions react in stress? I've read several descriptions but haven't seen anything about that yet. That'd be a good way to type since I'm better at going off specific information than an entire whole.

Yeah, under stress, a person can either rely on their stronger function... or overcompensate and use their weak function too much. Depends.

 

[DOGSOUP]

It was really difficult to figure out lol. At the end I just do not get extroversion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/a0nc61

Here's Jung's interpretation:

The conscious part is very similar to extroverted sensing. The difference is while the extroverted sensor just fully accepts what he senses on all levels, the introverts subconsciousness has to protect itself from outside influence using a few different strategies that strongly subconsciously influence what the person actually becomes aware of:

Unfavorable material objects of any kind could be treated as if they were the devil itself, favorable things as if they were well meaning powerful beings

Subjective level of sensations: the person often reacts to small things as if they were big issues and downplays big issues to a level they are comfortable with. They also value their subjective sensing aesthetics, unlike they extroverted sensor who tries to crush all subjectivity in favor of seeing "what is" and nothing more.

These people often appear to behave very rationally and indifferent on the outside, but that's just because they reject most of reality. "Still waters run deep" and so on.

If you want to see lots of people with this type actually spill out some of their innards, just go to r/intj

 

[NipNip]

How do different dominant cognitive functions react in stress? I've read several descriptions but haven't seen anything about that yet. That'd be a good way to type since I'm better at going off specific information than an entire whole.

Theory says that stress polarizes the functions. There is the main axis (dom, inf) and the secondary axis (aux, ter). If you are an INFJ, stress sharpens Ni+Se and neutralizes Fe+Ti.

'Normal' stress would be a hyper Ni mode, extreme stress let's loose the inferior Se (= always trouble).

The solution would be to address the suppressed secondary axis. In case of the INFJ: deliberately activate the middle functions Fe and Ti because they are capable of regular reasoning.

That's the theory, anyway.

For myself (INTP) I know tension causes Ti overdrive. Immense tension = spells of Fe rampage. And the way out is through the awaking of The Holy Savior, Ne.

 

[Joe Black]

It was really difficult to figure out lol. At the end I just do not get extroversion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/a0nc61

I hate how Jung writes. 🤣

I take it that he's talking about sensing subjectivity. Rather than just wanting to experience everything without judgement which is how he describes Se.

My ISTJ wife also hates being overstimulated. Hates too much music, smells. Very different to my ESFP son (Se dom) who LOVES music, noise, and all sorts of sensations. He drives her up the wall! lol (I take it that this is what Jung meant by unfavourable?)

So both son and wife are Sensors. But the Se dom seems to want more stimulation. Whereas the Si dom limits stimulation, and more picky about it.

ISTJ wife tries to organise things to make things manageable. I'm happy that the house looks neat (on the surface), but she needs it be organized under the hood. My desk is much neater than hers, and you'd think she's a "messy perceiver", but she simply takes super long to figured out where to put it, and what system is best. Whereas I quickly just chuck it in a drawer in a place that good for now.

ISTJ wife and workmate with her Te, makes them more strict and prickly when it comes to small things... e.g. "forgetting to replace the bin bag" Or when things aren't done the way it's supposed to be done. (combo of Si Te) - This combo seems to have a heightened "Attention to detail" - Not sure if its the Si only or the combo of Si-Te.
But she also always forgets where she put her mobile phone. I don't have great recollection but I give myself a rule to put it in the usual few places (like a valet tray)

I had an ISFJ working for me, and my wife is ISTJ, so I've been studying how their Si is at work.
They both (both Si doms) seem less adaptable at handling new technology, software, etc. Like they like the traditional, good old tools they're used to.

Compared to the ISFJ, who seems to not be as detailed (perhaps coz she was new and inexperienced) - But the ISFJ can also get prickly other details under a smile. Like it really bugs her but she's trying to be friendly and keep composure. But haven't had the chance to study her for long. (I think one of my client is ISFJ). They seem to be more attached to their creature comforts. Likes doing things the usual way. Doesn't deviate much. I want to take his business to new heights, but he just wants to stick to the same old things.

 

[Joe Black]

At the end I just do not get extroversion.

btw in regards to extroversion, I've read on the MBTI website how neuro-scientific studies using brain scans of extroverts and introverts and how extroverts have under-stimulated brains so they seek more sensory experiences. The introverts have over stimulated brains and so spend more time in their thoughts or whatever.

(If you want the hard science on it on what is provable about extroversion & introversion)

 

[DOGSOUP]

I hate how Jung writes. 🤣

I take it that he's talking about sensing subjectivity. Rather than just wanting to experience everything without judgement which is how he describes Se.

My ISTJ wife also hates being overstimulated. Hates too much music, smells. Very different to my ESFP son (Se dom) who LOVES music, noise, and all sorts of sensations. He drives her up the wall! lol (I take it that this is what Jung meant by unfavourable?)

So both son and wife are Sensors. But the Se dom seems to want more stimulation. Whereas the Si dom limits stimulation, and more picky about it.

ISTJ wife tries to organise things to make things manageable. I'm happy that the house looks neat (on the surface), but she needs it be organized under the hood. My desk is much neater than hers, and you'd think she's a "messy perceiver", but she simply takes super long to figured out where to put it, and what system is best. Whereas I quickly just chuck it in a drawer in a place that good for now.

ISTJ wife and workmate with her Te, makes them more strict and prickly when it comes to small things... e.g. "forgetting to replace the bin bag" Or when things aren't done the way it's supposed to be done. (combo of Si Te) - This combo seems to have a heightened "Attention to detail" - Not sure if its the Si only or the combo of Si-Te.
But she also always forgets where she put her mobile phone. I don't have great recollection but I give myself a rule to put it in the usual few places (like a valet tray)

I had an ISFJ working for me, and my wife is ISTJ, so I've been studying how their Si is at work.
They both (both Si doms) seem less adaptable at handling new technology, software, etc. Like they like the traditional, good old tools they're used to.

Compared to the ISFJ, who seems to not be as detailed (perhaps coz she was new and inexperienced) - But the ISFJ can also get prickly other details under a smile. Like it really bugs her but she's trying to be friendly and keep composure. But haven't had the chance to study her for long. (I think one of my client is ISFJ). They seem to be more attached to their creature comforts. Likes doing things the usual way. Doesn't deviate much. I want to take his business to new heights, but he just wants to stick to the same old things.

The thing is, I never noticed I limit the things I take in - exactly as Jung says, Si is not aware of its subjectivity. I think I am probably much close to SP temperament than SJ (when taken at face value). I like new experiences but it's the way that I seek them out that determined by subjectivity (I like free-diving because it literally cuts me out from the rest of the world...I don't mind a rowdy atmosphere or excitement but it does not feel as profound). I notice it when things really sink in deep (leaving a strong impression that I am forever at loss how to convey to other people, knowing they will not understand), or I notice similar things happening over and over (people looove to attribute this to N but anticipating things is something I do a lot; sorta get a sense of what is about to unfold), or in conflicting situations where I refuse to give in to pressure. I think a lot of people are unaware of having this:

It looks like you are just grouping objects together, but the way you do it is actually guided by your impression of those things - so even the perception is subjective from the get go, not just the thought process. Other people can definitely tell.

 

[FaeSoleil]

I notice the difference more easily when I speak to INxJs vs xNTPs (The INTPs are Ne).

• In any given amount of time, Ni conversations are also prone to go in more deep on a few topics. Ne conversations like going through many topics lightly.
• I find that xNTPs are more "open minded" and fascinated to hear differing opinions about ideas and theories. And I find it fun to talk to them because they're more open. I find it jarring to talk to INxJs who have differing opinions to myself (INFJ too). Disagreeing is not as fun between INxJs, but more fun with Ne types. so xNTPs, because they'll address it logically and hold it less close to their heart. They tend to be more prone to tunnel vision. Ni wants to zone in or sort out & organize right from wrong, or at least arrive to conclusions rather than just let the ideas sit everywhere. Not that Ne users never come to conclusions, that's for their judging functions to do that, but that they're happy to find as many theories or ideas.

So essentially:
Ne
More diverse conversations topics in a given amount of time.
More open minded and fascinated with all ideas and theories.

Ni
Fewer but deeper conversations topics in a given amount of time.
More narrower focus on ideas and theories.

And you're a normal person for being able to do both, but it's more about what you naturally prefer in the same amount of time. Today I was talking to an INTP about this one topic deeply and he was saturated and wanted to talk about other things. I'd be interested in a study of number of conversation topics per hour between Ni people and Ne people.

I wish it were so easy for me to tell even what my preference is there. I've annoyed people in the past both by throwing conversations down into wild tangents others can't follow and by continuing a single topic longer than the other person had the patience for. With close friends, I'm both the one throwing the conversation off into weird tangents and reviving topics that were last thought about 10 minutes ago because I'm still thinking about it and can't simply let it rest. ^^;

That's... uh. Probably a way to say I have ADHD without saying I have ADHD, though. For a lot of people, ADHD a weird mix of being easily distractable and hyperfocusing when something actually catches their attention fully. Makes it hard to easily decide between "Ne with ADHD", "Ni with ADHD" or just "no real preference... still with ADHD".

 

[Joe Black]

I've annoyed people in the past both by throwing conversations down into wild tangents others can't follow and by continuing a single topic longer than the other person had the patience for. With close friends, I'm both the one throwing the conversation off into weird tangents and reviving topics that were last thought about 10 minutes ago because I'm still thinking about it and can't simply let it rest. ^^;

Yeah... I'm guilty of all that too. I have a tendancy to want to revive an old topic I'm still thinking about, or go too deep into one topic. I just have to restrain myself from all that.

I try to think about the aim of the social conversation to help me put my conversations into perspective. I mean... what is a conversation anyway? Is it merely uploading/downloading info into one another? Is it a interaction that creates mutually positive feelings and the topics are merely the vehicle? Is it to actually to fully sort out a matter? Do I want the other person to come back and continue talking with me in future? Do I need to get it off my chest at the expese of all relationship?

Also if you perceive yourself to be the "weird" one, is it the case that they're just different to you? Or a different personality type? All my friends were sensors at some stage, and I felt like a real oddball. Then there are some that love these types of conversations, and it's mutually nice.

 

[FaeSoleil]

Yeah... I'm guilty of all that too. I have a tendancy to want to revive an old topic I'm still thinking about, or go too deep into one topic. I just have to restrain myself from all that.

I try to think about the aim of the social conversation to help me put my conversations into perspective. I mean... what is a conversation anyway? Is it merely uploading/downloading info into one another? Is it a interaction that creates mutually positive feelings and the topics are merely the vehicle? Is it to actually to fully sort out a matter? Do I want the other person to come back and continue talking with me in future? Do I need to get it off my chest at the expese of all relationship?

Also if you perceive yourself to be the "weird" one, is it the case that they're just different to you? Or a different personality type? All my friends were sensors at some stage, and I felt like a real oddball. Then there are some that love these types of conversations, and it's mutually nice.

It is a useful way to think about things, yeah. The only real way I have to avoid that sorta thing is basically mentally double check anything I'm about to say, because otherwise just keeping my goal in a conversation in mind takes focus I don't always have. It... is what it is.

And... eh. My friend group has a pretty broad variety of personality types and pretty much everyone is neurodivergent in one way or another. Just to list off a few... ESTx, INFJ, INTx. Others IDK how to begin to type. I say it's weird tangents because I don't always mean to do it, and I don't always even know how one topic connects to the other.

 

[Joe Black]

That's... uh. Probably a way to say I have ADHD without saying I have ADHD, though. For a lot of people, ADHD a weird mix of being easily distractable and hyperfocusing when something actually catches their attention fully. Makes it hard to easily decide between "Ne with ADHD", "Ni with ADHD" or just "no real preference... still with ADHD".

I thought I had ADHD at some point, but my "analytical psychologist" said, "no, you don't because you're able to improve your outcome by sheer will." (work context, focusing, writing things down, check boxing things to overcome weaknesses in focusing. The lack of focus was actually due to a hyper-stressful environment. Since I left, I felt like my focus was improved.) - So I'm guessing from her statement that people with actual ADHD are "unable to" as opposed to "find t difficult to" focus.

Gosh I wonder how someone with ADHD goes with mindfulness meditation?

btw, Peak Mind my Dr Amishi Jha is a great (audio)book if you want to understand the brain's focus systems from a neurological/scientific research point of view. I found it fascinating. It turns out stress really does diminishes focus & concentration. (no wonder).

But to me, it sounds like you have lots of interesting thoughts, and your bursting to share it with someone, and when you finally do, it all gushes out. You could try sharing some of your thoughts with many people at different times, rather than offload it all in one go? Or write them down daily?
This sort of behaviour sounds typically like ENFP, but I find myself as an INFJ doing this too. But I guess difference is that my Fe function needs to feel like it has permission to share the Ni-Ti insights and stuff like an extrovert, otherwise I remain shy and quiet. The ENFP's Fi with Ne Dom might mean they're less shy to share their thoughts.

When my INTP said he reached "saturation point" on this topic, I felt so bad and guilty about it (Fe worries); The INTP said he wasn't bothered at all, but I still felt bad. - So if you feel more self aware and somewhat overly guilty about your conversation habits, I wonder if you're an Fe user (therefore, you have Ti too)

 

[tarmonk]

How do different dominant cognitive functions react in stress? I've read several descriptions but haven't seen anything about that yet. That'd be a good way to type since I'm better at going off specific information than an entire whole.

I don't unfortunately have any good sources to refer right now but I think you're on right path with that - you start to see your dom drive when something disturbs it over prolonged period / takes out of its comfort zone. Otherwise it's so smooth and seamless process (for you haha, not for the others) that it's hard to figure out first time

I wouldn't stress too much whether your dom is I or E - some say it's whole personality that's I or E not the functions. Also I start to think from my observations that other funcs below dom play much less role in your personality than mbti suggests (they do but it's advanced understanding how exactly, not the one to begin with).

If i remember correctly, it was @tanstaafl28 who once posted good links about shadow sides of each personality - but can't remember what the thread was - would be worth to check it out for you.

 

[Aleks_Sasha]

Theory says that stress polarizes the functions. There is the main axis (dom, inf) and the secondary axis (aux, ter). If you are an INFJ, stress sharpens Ni+Se and neutralizes Fe+Ti.

'Normal' stress would be a hyper Ni mode, extreme stress let's loose the inferior Se (= always trouble).

The solution would be to address the suppressed secondary axis. In case of the INFJ: deliberately activate the middle functions Fe and Ti because they are capable of regular reasoning.

That's the theory, anyway.

For myself (INTP) I know tension causes Ti overdrive. Immense tension = spells of Fe rampage. And the way out is through the awaking of The Holy Savior, Ne.

This was honestly amazing advice! I'd suspected that I was a Fe dom for a while, and I looked into what an inferior Ti is like in stress, and definitely relate to becoming more critical of myself and others. I'm probably a socially introverted/ambiverted Fe dom, because I need time to recharge alone but then again I also project most of my energy and focus onto the external world.