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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm an ENFP who's kind of irresponsible and overly energetic. I get along with most people, but there's this one guy at work who's a very strong ESTJ, and every time I'll make a joke or try and do something kind for him, he just rolls his eyes or gives me a look of disgust. It isn't just his general attitude either. He's genuinely a pretty kind guy to everyone else, it seems as though he just targets me.
I really want to try and get on his good side. Is there any advice some ESTJ's can give me about how to appeal to an ESTJ?
 
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So he's generally a nice guy to everyone else but you? Can you think of any reason why he might dislike you?

You mentioned you were irresponsible and overly energetic. If you have ever been irresponsible at work, was he affected? Do you have problems focusing at work? Do you distract others from their work? If no, good. If yes, we can work on that.

Also, why do you care/want to be on his good side?
 

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ENFPs like to be adored by everyone. It doesn't feel right if they're not.
^ I'm an ENFP and I approve this message. Though, I don't really need everyone to adore me, I just want the people who give me attention to adore me. I guess it's more like this: either adore me or leave me alone. I don't like people who ridicule me or who are buzz kills. Please, just let me be happy.


@marmaladeskies

I don't have the blueprint for getting on the good side of an ESTJ but I did do it recently by accident. I met her through a mutual friend I go out with. The ESTJ's I've met seem very hesitant to accept someone they don't know...unless they meet them through someone that they accept and trust. So, I had my ticket into her inner circle, but that's only the first step.

After that I needed to prove myself or risk being shut out. What that takes is being consistent, reliable, and above all not challenging the ESTJ too much. I mean no disrespect by this, but ESTJ's can be very rigid (and in some cases close-minded) when it comes to their values, beliefs, and opinions. So if you want to be on their good side it's best to adopt a "live and let live" approach and avoid trying to change their mind, "enlighten" them, or argue with them. Otherwise, they may misinterpret your actions as hostile and view you as an enemy.

As for advice, I would suggest trying to make friends with his friends. Then let his friends bridge the gap between the two of you. Any other attempts you make to get on his good side will likely fail. This is because, to him, it would feel like you're forcing yourself on him. To an ESTJ that's a red flag that the person is either: A. needy and desperate, B. manipulative and dangerous, or C. both.
 

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After that I needed to prove myself or risk being shut out. What that takes is being consistent, reliable, and above all not challenging the ESTJ too much. I mean no disrespect by this, but ESTJ's can be very rigid (and in some cases close-minded) when it comes to their values, beliefs, and opinions. So if you want to be on their good side it's best to adopt a "live and let live" approach and avoid trying to change their mind, "enlighten" them, or argue with them. Otherwise, they may misinterpret your actions as hostile and view you as an enemy.
Perhaps it's just me, I don't know about other ESTJ.

But it usually takes time and deep analysis for me before I eventually make a decision. Once a decision is made, I don't look back or change my mind. This goes for values and beliefs. Opinions can change if I missed some important facts/evidence. Hence, I'm known to be an opinionated person.

I also highly regard personal boundaries. I respect other people's values and beliefs, even if theirs are opposite of mine. I don't care what you believe, as long as you leave me alone with what I believe.

So, when someone challenge my values and beliefs, I take that as an insult of my intelligence and a violation of my personal boundaries. That's not OK. I will fight for what I believe and will knock you down to teach you a lesson on how to respect my personal boundaries and what consequences you will receive if you don't. Back off or die.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So he's generally a nice guy to everyone else but you? Can you think of any reason why he might dislike you?

You mentioned you were irresponsible and overly energetic. If you have ever been irresponsible at work, was he affected? Do you have problems focusing at work? Do you distract others from their work? If no, good. If yes, we can work on that.

Also, why do you care/want to be on his good side?

I don't think he ever has been affected by my actions. But he criticizes me a lot for ridiculous things. Last week he told me that my clothing was too revealing for a workplace (I was wearing a low cut shirt, which I didn't think to be that big a deal) and I just responded by apologizing and I've stopped wearing low-cut shirts.
I don't know what it is, but it just really bugs me to know someone doesn't like me. I guess it's true that ENFP's do have a need to be adored by everyone.

I'm starting to think that maybe he's picking up on the fact that I'm easily persuaded and I shape myself around fitting other people's needs. Maybe he doesn't have a lot of respect for me because I don't have any solid opinions on things. I know ESTJ's are really opinionated and respect the values of others.

I just don't know what to do. I really want to earn this guys respect. It's driving me insane.
 

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I don't think he ever has been affected by my actions. But he criticizes me a lot for ridiculous things. Last week he told me that my clothing was too revealing for a workplace (I was wearing a low cut shirt, which I didn't think to be that big a deal) and I just responded by apologizing and I've stopped wearing low-cut shirts.
Honey, criticism for revealing clothing at work is not considered ridiculous. You were being unprofessional.

Here's my reasoning for liking/respecting people with fixed beliefs:
They're consistent. You can rely on them. You can predict how they'll react. People who are easily persuaded are unpredictable and thus make me uneasy. (Unless I'm expecting them to change their minds)

If you really want to earn this guy's respect, actively find ways to get him to notice positive things about you. I don't know what to suggest, because the only thing I know about your situation is that the two of you work in the same building.
 

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Addressing the question that is the title of this thread: Based on my limited experience of ESTJs and on what I've read about Extroverted Thinking and how it works--Extroverted Thinking gives a person the mindset that feelings are of secondary importance to efficiency and order. ESTJs often live in a world where you have to follow the rules, you have to be punctual, you have to follow a certain order, get things right. If you have very strong emotions, suck it up and deal with it. I find ESTJs often come across as harsh and uncaring, but I don't believe that they are purposely mean-spirited or don't care about your feelings, its just that for a Te-dom, feelings are of secondary importance to efficiency, so that being said, the best way to get along with one is just: follow the rules, and be consistent with it.
The tricky thing about ESTJs is they often are heavy Si users, especially if they're very strong sensors and not in touch with their intuitive side; the thing about Si is that it feeds a lot of past experience into the decision making process, and makes a person think like "Well this person was like this in the past, so this is the way the person is," so it's really hard to change a person's mind or opinion on something when they have that mindset. I find NP types often make SJ types really nerves because Ne tends to be full of all these crazy tangents and new ideas, and, like I said, it depends on how much the ESTJ is in touch with their intuitive side, if they're a heavy sensor, they might see the mindset of a Ne-dom as being pretty unnerving. So again, I would say, be really consistent, because, from what I've seen inconsistency makes most hardcore STJ types really nervous, especially if they have a strong judging preference; it might take a really long time for them to change their opinion on you; they might not want to. I can't say for sure, though, because I don't know the person...
 

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"ESTJs often live in a world where you have to follow the rules, you have to be punctual, you have to follow a certain order, get things right. If you have very strong emotions, suck it up and deal with it. I find ESTJs often come across as harsh and uncaring, but I don't believe that they are purposely mean-spirited or don't care about your feelings, its just that for a Te-dom, feelings are of secondary importance to efficiency, so that being said, the best way to get along with one is just: follow the rules, and be consistent with it."

I'm a strong ESTJ and as far as us coming across as harsh and uncaring...I don't usually know I'm being like that until someone calls me out. I don't mean to seem like I have the "suck it up, cupcake" attitude all the time. Lol. Although, sometimes it is meant to be there. I feel that most other personality types let their emotions get in the way and it seems to me that you do too (you being the one that originally posted this thread). That is what he doesn't like about you. It's not that he has you targeted. You just make him uneasy because you fly by the seat the your heart and he doesn't like that. He doesn't understand it nor does he wish to. He thinks it's silly and inconsistent.

At this point you have one of two options. 1: Just let it go and move on, or 2: Get ready to try EXTREMELY hard to get his approval. This is not going to be easy but it is possible. You need to seem a bit more logical around him. He'll naturally appreciate that. You also need to make him feel like you're willing to do things his way and not let your emotions get involved. Don't forget to let things go. He may say things that sound really harsh and hurtful but it's probably not meant to be taken that way. ESTJ's in my opinion, usually have a negative look on their face if they're not pleased with someone else's actions. It's not on purpose usually. We just don't hide anything well. Lol. Start there and you'll be on a great road to success with this venture.
 

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ESTJs are not exactly the ultimate in appreciating free expression. It seems to me that this INFP/ESTJ thing is not as.... healthy as other very different type combinations. ESTJs are not the easiest folks to get along with at times, especially if you have low self-confidence or need a lot of freedom to do things your own way.

I think INFPs should probably stay away from Te-dominant types as a general rule.
 

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I work with ESTJs often. The project leader was a massive ESTJ.
I could tell he didn't like me. BUT I did such a good job that he couldn't help but respect me.

I showed respect, didn't waste his time, I was logical (I am at my work), I was organized, and (most importantly) I was competent. I also towed the line and didn't do anything to go against his values.

So I got invited back. That was the highest praise I could possibly get, in my opinion, and it more than sufficed. He knows that, despite my complete affront to tradition, the team is better off with me and that really is what matters.

We aren't buddy buddies and never could be. But if you do your job well and avoid putting your non-traditional ways in his or her face, then you can get respect.

Don't make it a mission to have him or her like you as an individual.

That's just my experience anyway.
 

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... can I hop in here and offer my two cents?

Dear ENFP: Why give a fiddler's fart what this guy thinks of you? Stay true to yourself, honey. The only adoration you need is from yourself! You're an ENFP, for crying out loud, you're plenty awesome enough as it is.
 

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I work with ESTJs often. The project leader was a massive ESTJ.
I could tell he didn't like me. BUT I did such a good job that he couldn't help but respect me.

I showed respect, didn't waste his time, I was logical (I am at my work), I was organized, and (most importantly) I was competent. I also towed the line and didn't do anything to go against his values.

So I got invited back. That was the highest praise I could possibly get, in my opinion, and it more than sufficed. He knows that, despite my complete affront to tradition, the team is better off with me and that really is what matters.

We aren't buddy buddies and never could be. But if you do your job well and avoid putting your non-traditional ways in his or her face, then you can get respect.

Don't make it a mission to have him or her like you as an individual.

That's just my experience anyway.
Yes, to get respect from an ESTJ at work, focus on your professionalism, not on your personality.
 

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My big sister's an ESTJ and I've found that the best way to get along with her is to follow her lead. I also make sure not to 'show her up,' meaning even if I know something she doesn't I'll keep my mouth shut so she feels like she is smarter. If we're in the car together I'll ask for directions even though I don't need them...I do much of this subconsciously to keep the peace. I just hate living in a family with never ending conflict. In the past I was more of an achiever and my sister didn't talk to me for almost 9 months. I really missed her. She's really brilliant at quilting; She's teaching me that now and I love the time we have together.
 

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My big sister's an ESTJ and I've found that the best way to get along with her is to follow her lead. I also make sure not to 'show her up,' meaning even if I know something she doesn't I'll keep my mouth shut so she feels like she is smarter. If we're in the car together I'll ask for directions even though I don't need them...I do much of this subconsciously to keep the peace.
I disagree with this. I think this is wrong.

You should never hide your true self just because some people (including the ones you care so deeply about) cannot accept that. You can't make everybody loves you, so you should accept that fact, while also accepting yourself for who you are.

Never compromise your true color just for another person's acceptance. There will be many others who will love you for who you are, and those people are the ones that is worth your time.
 

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I disagree with this. I think this is wrong.

You should never hide your true self just because some people (including the ones you care so deeply about) cannot accept that. You can't make everybody loves you, so you should accept that fact, while also accepting yourself for who you are.

Never compromise your true color just for another person's acceptance. There will be many others who will love you for who you are, and those people are the ones that is worth your time.
I know what you're saying WickedQueen and I could even see myself giving the same advice to somebody else, but I don't see why it's so bad to alter yourself a little to keep the peace. I don't know if you are enneagram 8 as my sister is; I believe this is common amongst ESTJs. But I really don't believe that my sister can help being the way she is. She has been this way since forever. And I guess I've gone from really disliking her to realizing that one day she's probably going to be CEO of some company. I don't have the same ego issues as she does so pretending like I'm a little more inept than I really am isn't so hard. But she has almost no understanding of herself. When she gets angry she really thinks others are being difficult or something, I really don't know. She can get angry, but it's more of a silent treatment, cold sort of anger. Our dad's like that too, probably ESTJ also. I was hoping to find ESTJs who would admit to being like this so I could understand more, but it seems that that type of ESTJ is unwilling or unable to discuss it.
 
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