[Benja]

My dad is most likely an ISTJ and he flips his shit every time I do something differently than him. How can I get him off my back so that I don't get yelled at every time I do something creative or non-conventional?

A lot of times I just end up saying I'm different than you and I'm going to do things the way I want to do them while presently the logic behind my choices.

I'm staying with my parents at the moment as I save up some money, just graduated college this winter, and it would be nice if I could avoid arguing with him so much while I'm here. I'm not going to simply yield to his ways and suffer though.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :happy:

 

[Owfin]

IF THOU PERSISTS IN THINE WHINING THOU
SHALT NEVER DOETH WHAT THOU DREAMS:
FROM NOW I SPEAKTH A PROCLÀMATION
SAY, THINE BELOVETH ETHERNET
FROM THE SEAMS, I RIP AWAY, THEY
CANST NO LONGER STREAM FAVOURÈD SHOWS
FROM TV
AND SHALL NOT RECEIVE ANYMORE RHYMES
FROM ME!

I dunno why I went all iambic, but the point is that you don't need help getting ISTJs to let you do what you want, you need help getting your dad to let you do what you want.

 

[Rhee]

I'm staying with my parents at the moment as I save up some money, just graduated college this winter, and it would be nice if I could avoid arguing with him so much while I'm here. I'm not going to simply yield to his ways and suffer though.

Nothing comes for free, dude. Saving money isn't all there is to living with your parents - it also means you've basically chosen to trade rent for your personal freedom.

His house, his rules. If you're not happy with this you'll just have to move out.

As much as I sympathize with you that's how it works.

 

[Benja]

I think I need help getting J's to let me be a P. Usually I just avoid you all.

 

[Benja]

Nothing comes for free, dude. Saving money isn't all there is to living with your parents - it also means you've basically chosen to trade rent for your personal freedom.

His house, his rules. If you're not happy with this you'll just have to move out.

As much as I sympathize with you that's how it works.

Good point. It's not like staying under someones roof makes you their slave though.

 

[Rhee]

I think I need help getting J's to let me be a P. Usually I just avoid you all.

You've voluntarily created a situation where personal difference can easily manifest itself. You're just as capable of digging yourself out of it should you choose to.

Judgers at large do not care about your Perceiving tendencies either way. They have no reason to.

Your dad OTOH is on your back trying to change you because he's your dad. I suspect it sort of comes with the job description of being a parent. Personality type probably has less to do with this than you think.

Good point. It's not like staying under someones roof makes you their slave though.

I agree. Although unless he's put you in a chain gang to work in a coal mine, he's not exactly making you his slave per se. Think of it as you paying courtesy as a guest in his house. It makes things easier in my experience.

 

[MonieJ]

Learn mind control?

Well since no one is movin out anytime soon just agree to disagree.

 

[niss]

Good point. It's not like staying under someones roof makes you their slave though.

Slave? No. Servant? Yes. This is not in defense of your dad, but when you are indebted to someone, you are their servant.

 

[sriracha]

ISTJs can be very rigid, stubborn, and set in their ways. It looks like you've already tried convincing him using logic. And I'm also sure that as an SP, you try to get your way by doing things and not telling him, or agreeing with him but your actions contradict what you implied. ^^ The only way you can convince him is if you can make him see that your actions yield good fruit. What you're doing has to beat whatever he's doing. What exactly are you doing that he's getting you on? Is it the small everyday things or something that is a moral issue? Whatever it is, you'll just have to keep rebelling against him until he sees the good things that come out of it.

Another thing is, when you get into situations where you can prove him logically wrong and he knows it, make it big on him. ISTJs hate being wrong (I know I do, just admit it guys ;p). He probably won't even admit that he was wrong-he'll just quiet down. That's the moment you can get what you want.

As an ISTP, are you socially outgoing? When you have friends over, your dad will be less likely to say NO all the time. That's only if you're talking to him in front of your friends. And if your friends want something, he won't want to go against it. He'll be a bit more flexible because of social norms.

 

[Benja]

Thanks for the responses.

It seems like the conflicts usually come up when he wants me to do something for him, not moral things. He'll ask me to do something and I'll go do it in my own way and it gets accomplished. Then he comes along and tears apart my way of doing it and boasts about how he knows the best way to do EVERYTHING. At that point, I'm just like well if you don't want me to do this then do it yourself, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it the way that works best at aiding ME in accomplishing the task, not the way you've been doing it for 50 years.

I think their really is a lot more going on than just his ISTJness though, I think we're clashing because he want's to be the top dog and I'm not a willing subordinate. He's always coming in my room and saying "I took care of all of your mess for you, you need to do things this way...btw I'm so much better than you"

He doesn't realize that I lived on my own and taken care of my own business for 5 years during my undergrad. I've formed a way of living that gives me fulfillment and he takes that away when he treats me as a lesser human to be controlled.

I'd be fine with moving out asap, but my mom and little sister really want me to stay around, they get into conflicts with him a lot too lol, and it is nice having so little expenses while I'm getting started.

 

[sriracha]

Yep, it's his problem. But I do think that some ISTJs may have similar or some of the same weaknesses. Some have called us the "dream crushers" because of our critical nature. We may not be supportive, because we think something can be better. I encourage you to keep living your life and being yourself. One day, who knows when, he will see your value and how much you've accomplished.

 

[niss]

@Benja -

You are right in that it is more than being an ISTJ - he's being emotionally unhealthy. However, the manner in which he is giving rein to his unhealthy behaviors is very typical of an unhealthy IXTJ.

He will change, but you will have to change your tactics in order to get him to see the error of his ways. ISTJs are very prone to win - lose conversations, and it appears that he is giving into, or even pursuing this type of dialogue with you.

I would suggest that you seek clarity on the task at hand when he tries to delegate it to you. Get it written down and determine beforehand what entails a successful completion of the project. Then explain (kindly) that you don't want to be micro-managed and that he should arrange to leave you alone while you complete the task. Explain that once the task is complete, you will invite him back over to inspect and offer constructive positive comments and criticisms. He must engage in positives if he is to offer any negatives. Finally, if there is something wrong with the end result, he must agree to allow you to fix it. He must not undo and redo what he has given you to complete. Assure him that you will see it through to completion and to his satisfaction, but that the process of doing the work is yours once he delegates it.

Now, there may be something integral to the process that needs to be explained to you before you begin (e.g. proper method of surface prep prior to painting). Ask him to explain those things to you now, before you start. Then assure him that if you have a question, that you will come to him with the question. However, when you come to him with the question, it will be specific and he must only answer the question - he is not allowed to take over the project or to criticize other areas.

Once the project is completed, and he comes over and inspects it, it is likely that he will fall into the old pattern of wanting to be critical and redo everything. Don't allow it without calmly stating that for you to be able to work with him, he must follow what you've agreed upon. In a very nice way, you are telling him to back off, or he can kiss off a good relationship.

Speaking of that, make sure that he understands that this is important because what is really being sacrificed is a good relationship with his son, and the rest of his family. In a short while, you will be leaving to form your own life completely; when you do, it will one day occur to him that he would like a better relationship with you and your new family. This is important to ISTJs, so somehow you need to communicate it with him in a non-confrontational manner that lets him know that you want the relationship to improve, but you are not willing to lose yourself in order to please him. It must be give and take and he has to give you and others the room to be their own person.

As for the room, mess, whatever. In common living areas, pick up after yourself. Day in, day out, don't leave a mess for others. Do this, not for him or for others, but for yourself - be the kind of person that others look up to for this trait. However, in your room, it's hands off. That is your personal space and as long as you are not damaging the structural integrity of the room, it's not his call. If he doesn't like it, just keep your door closed.

Now, if you are truly beholden to him for everything - clothes, food, shelter, etc. (no job), then it is a little trickier. Here's the deal: He gave you those things. He doesn't want your clothes, he just wants you to take care of them like he would (or even better than he would) so that he feels validated and appreciated. The problem is that he has not really given them to you if he is attempting to dictate how you take care of them. If he feels that you aren't taking good care of them, then it is perfectly within his right to refuse to buy you new clothes after you ruin them, but it is not within his right to harp and nag because you aren't treating them in a way that is agreeable to him. Again, you will need to explain this to him in a way that gets his attention, yet in a calm and collected manner. Don't escalate.

I know this is tl;dr, but the last thing is your relationship with your mother and sister. It smacks of rescuing. Staying in an unhealthy situation for them is not a good thing. If they are in danger, they should get out. Otherwise, you must let their decisions be theirs, and make the correct decisions for your life outside of any attempts at rescuing them.

HTH

 

[Benja]

Wow, thank you so much.

I will try to implement some of these into our interactions.

It's just so frustrating some times because I'll work really hard trying to help out and at the end of the day when I'm exhausted he'll burst in and criticize everything I've done for him. I just did a big remodel at his rental property for him and I've already got everything built, just have to de-nail a ton of boards that we're saving. So I spent 3 hours over there taking nails out of these deck boards, a metric shit ton of them, a couple days ago, and yesterday he bursts into my room and yells at me for denailing the deck boards first when the 2x8's are more expensive. No compliments on my hard work or anything, he just bursts in and acts like a total dick. I told him off and he left me alone, I mean we're de-nailing everything, it doesn't fucking matter which boards I do first. Situations like these have happened fairly regularly, he made my mom cry when she painted the kitchen and living room. She worked so hard on it and when he saw it he basically said it looked like shit.

That being said, this is the only problem we really have had. He just doesn't think of others and it's hurtful.

I'm pretty sure if it weren't for us kids, my mom would have left him. She, being and ISFJ most likely, has to have more trouble dealing with him than me and my who cares ISTPness.

 

[kuropuu]

Is he perchance retired military and goes by the name of- oh nevermind. He's starting to sound an awful lot like my step-father, who is definitely an unhealthy ISTJ. I wonder if being an ISTJ as well makes it easier to deal with, because I don't clash with him nearly as much as the rest of my household does.

I could go on and on and on about it, but overall, I just want to say, I feel your pain.

 

[Benja]

Is he perchance retired military and goes by the name of- oh nevermind. He's starting to sound an awful lot like my step-father, who is definitely an unhealthy ISTJ. I wonder if being an ISTJ as well makes it easier to deal with, because I don't clash with him nearly as much as the rest of my household does.

I could go on and on and on about it, but overall, I just want to say, I feel your pain.

No he's never been in the military, but thanks, and good luck with your step-father.