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Discussion Starter #1
i like this girl but i have been hearing a lot of awful things about her like she's very manipulative and she twists words etc.

based from the data, i have this inkling that she's either ESFJ or ENFJ. i do not know which one for sure. please help me.
 

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Hi
I don't think that being manipulative and twisting words have necessarily anything to do with certain types. And this is said in a nice tone - that view seems unfair to ESFJ and ENFJs.
It could be that she's just got a mean streak to her.
 

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The differences are huge.

ESFJs are more realistic, practical, and focused on the here and now. They are more focused on what can be done now versus what could be done in the future. You could imagine them as the stereotypical caregivers, giving the old lady next door chicken noodle soup. They are pretty happy and optimistic for the most part.

ENFJs are drama queens, have very idealistic view points and visions, darker emotions, and can be quite giving/sacrificial. I feel like their speech patterns are more complex and moving, as they can be very powerful orators to stir people's emotions. They are probably interested in things like raising money to end world hunger (global vision) versus making chicken noodle soup for you (here and now).
 

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True that, true that.

Keep in mind those were very broad generalizations- I just wanted to hit the point that the ENFJs I've met had these very idealistic/global causes compared to ESFJs.

They do make great mentors though...One of my biggest role models in life is an ENFJ.
 

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That is true indeed - we do want to make the world a better place, well I think most of us anyway :) and then we get older and realise that it's almost impossible to pursue so some of us aim to make a difference in a more local way.

Thanks for the compliment about us being great mentors ;)
 

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ENFJs are drama queens
I disagree with this comment. I am not a drama queen, in fact I like things to be easy. The 2 ESFPs in my life are massive drama queens too so there is no room for me to be one.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi
I don't think that being manipulative and twisting words have necessarily anything to do with certain types. And this is said in a nice tone - that view seems unfair to ESFJ and ENFJs.
It could be that she's just got a mean streak to her.
i didn't mean it that way.
 

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I disagree with this comment. I am not a drama queen, in fact I like things to be easy. The 2 ESFPs in my life are massive drama queens too so there is no room for me to be one.
You are right, you can't say that all people in a type are drama queens. But I do understand why that was said about ENFJ's.

ENFJ's are very idealistic. They like things to be just the way they imagine them. How that comes out is different for every individual. I know a bunch of ENFJ's, and one is indeed a drama queen, the others aren't but they are driven by the same motivations.

The thing that is most striking about ENFJ's for me is that most things are about how it makes them feel. The way they treat others depends on the situation. An example would be that if they are in a group of people they really like to be part of, and this group doesn't really like you, they all the sudden don't know you and ignore you. Then the next day they will be extra nice to you to compensate. (this I find very funny, even though it is pretty sad.)
 

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were you hurt? offended? LOL sucks for you. :crazy:
Uhhh...no haha. You're mind-reading.

You said she was manipulative and twisted people's words. I said that was unfair to generalise ENFJs.
You said you didn't mean it that way. I got slightly confused so I asked you what you meant by it - so to be very clear - 'what else could 'manipulative and twisting words' mean?
 

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I disagree with this comment. I am not a drama queen, in fact I like things to be easy. The 2 ESFPs in my life are massive drama queens too so there is no room for me to be one.
Oh just in case, I didn't mean it in a "they like to start conflict" kind of drama queen...

I meant more like...They add a lot of "excitement" to otherwise boring or normal situations. Like they can paint speeches in many colors and stuff... They add that zest/spark to life, ya know?

Very fun to be around. :tongue:
 

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Spot on about ENFJs, although not sure about the raising money part - I think ENFJs are more like the counsellors to others and want to help people 'psychologically' - to help people FEEL better about themselves.
I agree with that. I don't think ENFJ's feelings are any darker, either. ENFJ's and ESFJ's differ in the simplicity of their motives. While it was mentioned that ESFJ's tend to think of the "here and now," I'd disagree and say that ESFJ's think of the "top layer" of the issue. They are planners, just like ENFJ's. However, they give priority to what they can see first and what is first and foremost crucial, while ENFJ's tend to get lost in the general idealism of whatever it is they're thinking about or get overwhlemed by their intuitiveness when it comes to listing tasks. ESFJ's know where to start, and they are instant caregivers.

So, yes, the noodle soup applies still to the ESFJ, but not because they focus on the "right now," but on the "most obvious" or "most crucial" of the situations.

Personally, I identify most with the counselor part of the ENFJ description, but both may apply.

ESFJ's tend to like to be in charge and know how to delegate tasks easily. While being in charge, they baby and take great care of those not "below" them, but those that are curical counterparts to whatever it is they are heading. They are very mothering in nature.

ENFJ's tend to like to be in charge as well, but tend to work for things that aren't immediately tangible. They encourage their co-workers, but only as they see fit. Extremely charismatic (much like the ESFJ), ENFJ's are charismatic primarily based on idea, while ESFJ's have their nurturing and their motherly personality that bring them attention.

Both types wear their heart on their shoulders.
 
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Oh just in case, I didn't mean it in a "they like to start conflict" kind of drama queen...

I meant more like...They add a lot of "excitement" to otherwise boring or normal situations. Like they can paint speeches in many colors and stuff... They add that zest/spark to life, ya know?

Very fun to be around. :tongue:
That doesn't sound at all the way you stated it. Though it clears it up for me. ENFJ's tend to sulk more into their feelings, take their feelings and run with them into their clouds intuitively. They can still delegate when/where it is appropriate to express them, and while they like praise and someone to help them feel better, ENFJ's aren't one of the types that are most likely to run around crying and talking to every person or make a big deal out of little things. We are extroverted feelers who are used to being hurt and a witness to drama, especially since most ENFJ's tend to place such high hopes and focus on humanity.

We are emotional, inspirational, and moving, both to others and to ourselves. We, however, are also structured and know when it is appropriate to be dramatic in an extroverted environment. We are social butterflies by nature.
 
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That doesn't sound at all the way you stated it.
I was thinking this too.

ENFJ's aren't one of the types that are most likely to run around crying and talking to every person or make a big deal out of little things. We are extroverted feelers who are used to being hurt and a witness to drama
I can so relate to this!

We, however, are also structured and know when it is appropriate to be dramatic in an extroverted environment. We are social butterflies by nature.
I agree.

ENFJ's tend to sulk more into their feelings, take their feelings and run with them into their clouds intuitively.
My husband has often accused me of sulking, but that is my way of dealing with anger or hurt. I retreat and become withdrawn because it isn't in my nature to shout and scream. I have to do something with those feelings so I wear that "Don't talk to me unless you want to have venom spewed on you" look, and open and shut cupboard doors loudly etc.
 

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The differences are huge.

ESFJs are more realistic, practical, and focused on the here and now. They are more focused on what can be done now versus what could be done in the future. You could imagine them as the stereotypical caregivers, giving the old lady next door chicken noodle soup. They are pretty happy and optimistic for the most part.

ENFJs are drama queens, have very idealistic view points and visions, darker emotions, and can be quite giving/sacrificial. I feel like their speech patterns are more complex and moving, as they can be very powerful orators to stir people's emotions. They are probably interested in things like raising money to end world hunger (global vision) versus making chicken noodle soup for you (here and now).
I will be honest and say that I don't know anything about other personality types.

As for ENFJs, I have never been known as a drama queen. When I am hurt, I remain quiet until I am cooled down before I talk to the person. I can't stay mad for long though LOL Give me one day max LOL. It normally only takes a few hours. I don't even get mad that often (well, just don't try to irritate me on those days of the month LOL When I tell people "it is not my day today", they should know the sign LOL )

So, I don't think it is fair to generalize :)
 

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so my enfj friend just posted a video on my facebook wall talking about her burnt poptart for two minutes, LOL

only enfjs could pull that off hahahhahaha
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Uhhh...no haha. You're mind-reading.

You said she was manipulative and twisted people's words. I said that was unfair to generalise ENFJs.
You said you didn't mean it that way. I got slightly confused so I asked you what you meant by it - so to be very clear - 'what else could 'manipulative and twisting words' mean?
lol i think you got it all wrong and it's because my thread lacked detail. so there. everything's clear.
 

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Actually I am not sure if my mom is ENFJ or ESFJ and I am trying to offer her support through some stuff she's currently going through. She is married to an ESTJ which causes lots of tension for her as she cannot do anything right and he just doesn't get it that she needs to be treated in a gentler, compassionate almost simultaneous childlike / adult way...if that makes sense at all.

She is very kind and always doing for others but he complains to me (her daughter) that she is bipolar and never nice to him. of course she takes care of him so well but he cannot see that as he takes her lack of interest in him as a sign that she is unhappy with and in herself. She craves praise and constantly buys stuff for people to the point that it does get rather ridiculous. I try to help by getting her to fun stuff; like took her to see Menopause the show which after she finally agreed to come; she thoroughly enjoyed. As she loves shopping; I also try to do that with her but set very clear boundaries regarding not spending on me or the kids. She loves nature and the simple things in life; but has changed over the years not only mellowing but losing her fun, spontaneous nature in the process. My step-dad is so controlling with her that she has indeed become very cynical as she's gotten older. She is also having a difficult time with the fact that she is no longer the centre of attention with men as she was truly stunning in the looks department well into her early 60s..now not so much. She's still gorgeous though!

How do I help her as I hate seeing her like this? I don't want to make things worse for her by putting my foot in my mouth so to speak. My mom and I have been close but not so much these days as when I invite her to casual family outings, kid's plays, lunch, etc she often doesn't turn up because she gets sick. But then the next day; she's cleaning this old friend's house and suddenly feeling better. many times when we lived insterstate and she would visit; there would be no call when she wouldn't turn up for days despite having made definite plans. I would be worried that something had happened on the trip but she never got it that she should have called. (I'd try to call and leave messages, etc- yet if I am half and hour late or forget to tell her something quite trivial; she gets very upset that I supposedly don't think about her feelings)

Then we cop it for not spending much time with her although she says that she knows how busy we are with family, work, etc. How do I be assertive with her and also encourage her to feel better in herself? I have a son that is very similar to my mom and I have treated him with white gloves too because, like my mom; he takes everything so personally. Both seem to work best with having very clear boundaries et in place for them. OBTW- they are both the nicest, caring people when they are happy. Any ideas?
 
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