[Pepsirio47]

What drives you nuts about an ESTJ?
What do you admire about an ESTJ?

Do you love them?
Do they understand you?
Do you hate them?
Do you resent their objectivity?
Do you despise their orderliness?

 

[soppixo]

I don't personally know any ESTJs, but I know quite a few ISTJs (and a ENTJ) and as much as I love them- if their Te was dialled up higher, I can see how it'd drive me nuts.

I tend to avoid ExxJs if I spot them, and they wouldn't necessarily be my first choice when making friends simply because of their need to enforce a certain expectation / understanding of me. It is slightly easier with ExFJs because I can still empathize with them to some extent, but again- not my first choice when it comes to friendships.

The divide really boils down to the difference in mindset between a Ti-dom and a Te-dom. It really isn't about objectivity or orderliness so much as it is the need to project your thoughts and opinions upon others vs the desire to hold independent counsel and understand/pinpoint things but not dictate. Often, my quarrels with the ISTJs around me boil down to my desire for self-sufficiency vs their desire to whip me into shape.

Not to say that they don't often have a valid point when picking at me, but the ISTP lives life at their own pace and dislikes being hassled, herded or prodded into place. Unless you're a family member, good friend or hold some real sway on the ISTP, your concerns would only end up pushing any ISTPs further and further away. Te repels Ti, and the more Te you emanate, the more Ti would avoid you.

 

[Erbse]

What drives you nuts about an ESTJ?
What do you admire about an ESTJ?

Do you love them?
Do they understand you?
Do you hate them?
Do you resent their objectivity?
Do you despise their orderliness?

Ironically the way these questions were phrased, particularly question #4, makes me already treat you with the utmost caution :mellow:

 

[Poko]

What drives you nuts about an ESTJ?
What do you admire about an ESTJ?

Do you love them?
Do they understand you?
Do you hate them?
Do you resent their objectivity?
Do you despise their orderliness?

I know one ESTJ and one ISTJ. Similar, only slight differences.

The ESTJ is pretty typical, likes to have things planned, expects a reply right away as opposed to my usual "one hour of consideration and then reply" mindset.

What drives me nuts? She likes to schedule too much and doesn't like to deviate from the plan for a more interesting adventure. She's also pretty closed minded to ideas that conflicts with her own.
What I admire. Nothing in particular, she has a lively personality and is fun to have as company.
Do I love her? Not really, she is fun company but I can still imagine my life without her in it. Like every human, she's irreplaceable, but I don't exactly want to spend too much time with her.
Does she understand me? I don't know what this question is asking exactly, she understand my words. She knows what I say and interpret it the same way I say it.
Do I hate her? Not at all
Do I resent her objectivity? I don't see why this would be a problem, especially with other ISTPs or Thinkers in general. No, I don't resent any objectivity.
Do I despise her orderliness? Gets on my nerves when she's not being efficient and when there are odd rules that single me out, but no, I don't.

The ISTJ is similar, except he's a square. Very boring, lack any interesting points, and doesn't like to do very many interesting things.

 

[Promethea]

When someone beams their Te -at- me, if its called for in the moment, and if it actually seems reasonable to me, fine. This is often not the case though.

First line of defense against Te when it annoys me: I will politely ignore it. This is a distinct signal that I'm not hearing all that shit, and I'm nice enough to not tell you its fucking overkill, beating a stinking dead horse, painfully pointless, or completely irrational by my standards. I will stay silent and unresponsive and hope that serves as an icy glass of water poured over their overheating head full of hyperactive grinding gears.

The worst thing that they could do is persist. And its often the case that their lack of Fe is going to cause them to completely not understand my willful blindness to their prodding. At some point I might explain, this is what that means - it essentially means fuck off.

The Te dom who has crossed me then comes to a very important crossroads in their life: choose the path of fucking off, or choose the path that eventually leads to stomping around in a tantrum. The wise man chooses the path of fucking off. Often, the younger more hyper "puppy phase" Te dom will naively try to penetrate my defenses.

Here is how that is going to escalate for us:

- I flatly tell you why what you are proposing/directing is uncalled for, overkill, pointless, not rational by my standards.

- You resist and I start to stick wrenches in all those little gears by purposely acting like I don't even understand your completely obtuse rationalization.

- Malfunction, smoke, fire, explosion, and we both walk away.

Repeat 029438039x and eventually they get it and learn the right path, the safe path, the non-Te-head-explodey path.

And don't get me wrong, there are some Te doms who I have valued as friends, but when they go all hyper with their attempts to direct me, we gots prollems. Things just have to be done my own way at my own pace most of the time, and I depend on my own logic too much to just let someone take the reins.

 

[Agent Washintub]

Um... I don't know a single ESTJ that I can think of.

Also, what's the conflict between Ti and Te?

 

[zynthaxx]

Also, what's the conflict between Ti and Te?

You wanting to do things in your own time and according to your priorities, and them knocking on your shoulder demanding immediate attention. Also, the conflict between them not wanting to be told what to do and you not wanting to be told how to do it, as described in a thread I can't be assed to find right now.

 

[petitpèlerin]

My mother is an ESTJ. She's a wonderful woman and excellent mother, and more Te than I'll ever need to last me for the rest of my life. If an ESTJ has learned how to chill out and not impose their order on others (which my mother has), we get along well, since we're both down-to-earth (sensing) and rational (thinking). But I have never chosen an ESTJ as a friend, I just find myself in situations with them and we get along if they keep their Te in check.

 

[Falling Down]

My stepfather is an ESTJ. What drives me crazy is whenever he forces his Te on me (I have a lot of issues with people who are overbearing with this function...). I also don't like just how traditional and closed-minded he may be, how he is always criticizing others for having a "different" lifestyle or way of doing things. He is always getting on my ass for the kind of person I am, and how I choose to go about my life and decisions. Needless to say, I don't feel understood by him at all, never have. He tries though. But our mindsets are just too different (we do use the exact opposite functions after all).

Even so, I love his sense of humor. It may be considered insensitive and he might take a joke too far, but for the most part, he really knows how to make me laugh. I also love it whenever he chooses to share with me things he has read or when he provides me a lot of knowledge, because he gets very passionate, and overall is just a very smart guy - I like listening to him, he makes his topics intriguing. He is always trying to teach me life lessons, and I appreciate his advice. I know he means well.

Even though he can be a pain, and he has been capable of hurting me more than anyone else ever has, I have an unconditional love for him. I usually find myself missing him perhaps more than I do anyone else, which is kind of odd, considering we aren't close in the way that we find it difficult to communicate with each other well enough and the atmosphere between the two of us is always mixed. But I love him a lot.

Te in general pisses me off. Both of my parents are die-hard Te users, and it is difficult for me to live with either of them. I have had more than enough... I usually am more attracted to people who are either strong Ti users or whose Te is more under-developed. However, I am not opposed to befriending more ESTJs. I think anyone can be beneficial to have around, just might need more space from them than I might most others.

 

[Crafter79]

One of my oldest friends is ESTJ, I've known him for 27 years and we get along great.

The women I know that are ESTJ can be a bit too much for my taste. If I ever were in a relationship with one I would probably end up having a break up eventually. The authority figure within them drives me nuts. I can understand why ESTJ is good for a passive ISTP but then again I also believe it would be a struggle of wills. Working with ESTJs can be great, I like their structure and straight forward approach.

 

[Ellis Bell]

My sister is an ESTJ, I think. Actually, she's one of the funniest people I can think of, although her sense of humor is a bit insensitive (runs along the lines of Schadenfreude). She likes structure and order and she's probably one of the most obsessively organized people I've ever met. Opinionated, blunt, doesn't take a lot of crap from people and will tell you what's on her mind without really thinking about how it will affect someone else. However, she's incredibly loyal towards the people she cares about. Our relationship kind of goes against the natural order of things in some ways. You know how with siblings you can usually tell who's older and who's younger? With my sister and I, she's younger but acts older and you would never guess our birth order by looking at how we interact. She's more about ordering, directing, managing, and I'm a lot more laid back when it comes to that sort of stuff.