Personality Cafe banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a hard time describing my thoughts.
I see/hear a lot of people describing their thought as language.

but It isn't language for me. Its something extremely hard to describe. like a different dimension where I test/decipher reality.

I do use language.
In my head I must first analyze my thoughts.
Then I decipher them into English. if its too complex I must decipher them into images then into English (metaphors/imagery).

but I don't have to decipher them into English to understand them.
I decipher them so that I can communicate.
vice versa

when I absorb information through English.
I must first analyze the information - Definition/Connotation, Topic of the Information, How/Why it was stated...etc.

then it translates into my thought...and interconnects with everything I know.
My knowledge is interconnected, A giant web connecting things through commonality.

when I learn something new. It is placed in this web and then it connects itself to things that are already there.
when it connects things that were not originally connected it snaps together. and the information creates new "Philosophical ideas" where I have to test them to see how much they are really connected....

(sometimes this translation process I described causes more thoughts, helps me find more commonalities)


It's intensely sophisticated.

Does everyone think like this?..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
My knowledge is interconnected, A giant web connecting things through commonality.
I really relate to this depiction. I always search for identical parts between things that built connections between them. Every brain actually does this, but not with an awareness of the structure. And the interconnection can be differently strong of course: more connections require more fine (and unconscious) fragmentations of everything. Less fragmentation - letting things as wholes - prevents the mind from connecting identical parts between them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Every brain actually does this, but not with an awareness of the structure. And the interconnection can be differently strong of course: more connections require more fine (and unconscious) fragmentations of everything. Less fragmentation - letting things as wholes - prevents the mind from connecting identical parts between them.
I was also wondering if different personality types ARE because the way they see (what they're aware of) these connections...

I guess you can say, these "Unconscious connections" are less unconscious to me.
and I can relate well with others because since I see more of the "connections",
I can understand how others come to their conclusions (using their connections) through logic .

I've read that as you grow older you round out as an individual and your "personality" type becomes harder to recognize.

Is it maybe because we become more aware of these connections? allowing more complex "fragmentation"...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,873 Posts
I think personality types have a large learning, social and value system component. I have wondered how differences in intelligence arise - of course part of it is early childhood traing (I guess?) -
On my mother's side of the family in every little Delta town where the extended family lived, that family members were usually the valedictorian in their graduating class. A number off us have qualified for mensa - I attended one meeting -Nah. T
hat is not by education, for that family was from poor origins, very large families and seldom went beyond high school if that far.- it carries to my two sons and probably others of their generation. One family member was classified as retarded, and there is a standing joke about how many of us could not tell left from right (like me) -dyslexia. The "retarded " cousin taught himseld to read and had the most amazine memory - after a span of 40 years he told me when he last saw me, the ocasion and location -
There must be a heridity function there, and a dominant one - If my sons had the average of my ex wife and me, they might break 100.
On thinking, it is to me a totally automatic thing - I see -I comprehend, I extrapolate, I remember. Now, when zoned out on a difficult problem, I see tables of numbers - I have dreamed numbers and worked calculus problems -correctly -in my sleep.
By the way. Logarithms were self - evident and most of the 8th grade class never got it. And we had the poorest teachers in the state.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
On thinking, it is to me a totally automatic thing - I see -I comprehend, I extrapolate, I remember. Now, when zoned out on a difficult problem, I see tables of numbers - I have dreamed numbers and worked calculus problems -correctly -in my sleep.
By the way. Logarithms were self - evident and most of the 8th grade class never got it. And we had the poorest teachers in the state.

It seems to me your using this same process as I do but Unconsciously...except you translate your thought into math before you translate it into English..

(which may explain dyslexia - math problems can be read in many ways and still come up with the same answer but if you have to translate that to English it may get confusing)

why would that happen? what made you translate you thoughts like that...I wonder...(if what i'm saying is true)

if someone were to translate their thoughts using memory.... they're memory would I assume be great..but may cause serious problems translating to english...Idk considering I'm basing it off what youve told me about your family...but it makes sense

I may be completely off....but from how i think and from what i know....it makes sense...anybody have any input?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
I have a hard time describing my thoughts.
I see/hear a lot of people describing their thought as language.

but It isn't language for me.
I know exactly what you mean! Although I do not really test reality in my thoughts, it is more like a place where I come to conclusions. I suppose we simply perceive it different ways; you see a thought being placed into a web and I see a web forming and connecting/integrating towards a thought or idea.

But It is almost exactly the same for me. I remember this one time I asked some of my friends, "Do you guys ever think in thoughts? Like, not words or pictures or objects. Just thoughts." And they kind of looked at me like I was missing a screw, but I am glad someone agrees!

It is also pretty much the most difficult thing in my whole life to decipher my thoughts into words or actions, and when I have finally found some words/actions to represent my thought, I keep thinking of different words/actions that could accurately depict my thought because I always feel like 50% of the meaning is lost in translation...

I think this thought is only available to us IN's, though...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I know exactly what you mean! Although I do not really test reality in my thoughts, it is more like a place where I come to conclusions. I suppose we simply perceive it different ways; you see a thought being placed into a web and I see a web forming and connecting/integrating towards a thought or idea.
...
I think this thought is only available to us IN's, though...

which strengthens my idea on different personality types..

and yeah that's what brought me to this forum...hoping to find people to talk about this topic with me lol

I've heard people that speak different languages think in that language...and language is a whole nother topic..

Here's a discussion I had with my brother on FB about language(sorry if its sloppy)

ME

  • binary=simple. ~> creation of program languages = (task specific) to allow improved understanding/use of specified tasks (ex. java = multi-platform)... spoken languages- similar results? accidentally?... if another language was created and spoken PURPOSELY created to improve SOMETHING..SOMETHING would be improved? ...is same with Dialect?... Slang/Ebonics... hmmmm.... what do you think?











  • My Brotheryes



    hahaha



    i think that people take language to serious



    take the laws of language too serious



    simple language = efficient language



    english at a basic level, like talking to a friend = efficient



    facebook is a good example and a bad example. we save time shortening shit and using imporper grammer, getting a point across faster. but comprehensiojn is harder- probabaly because we werent taught this way.

    ME












  • I'm looking at it much deeper then that. why is latin the language of love? because it allows us to sound more emotional?...so languages that are derived from latin are naturally better at the arts singing/acting....languages that use charecters are using image to identify meaning...so they r more meaningful/deeper...they can reach a more spiritual sense = buddist monks... English has the largest amount of words to try and accumulate all meaning...there are more feelings then meanings...languages that have less are more logical...and through language we learn..and it effects all other learning?...











  • im just throwin out ideas, id have to research..bcuz it may be other things but its the same general idea



    like it could be that a language doesnt use full in depth logic...so we use connotation yo fill in the blanks



    to*



    that way we speak faster



    like what you wer saying about facebook



    it evolved



    english law...is a different way of using english to fix the flaws..trying to be more logical and strayt forward, no emotional meaning...



    ...all language evolved based on what the people using it wanted it to do...ex.. shakspear using slang



    ..so in theory you wouldnt have to take 100 years to change a language slowly..you can create your own language with purpose of communicating the way needed...and implement it to solve problems..






Back to the topic
If you use this idea and apply it to what language you think in...

then you can say the reason you have trouble deciphering your thoughts is because the language we use is restricted..

but like i said Idk. this is all just an idea i had...and I was curious on what other people thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
then you can say the reason you have trouble deciphering your thoughts is because the language we use is restricted..
I completely agree the language we use is restricted and restricting!

Although that can be a good thing as well as a bad thing. It levels the playing field somewhat. For example, somebody who does not think as much as me can still talk as well, or even better than I am able to. For that reason, I can't usually judge how intelligent somebody is (or just how much they think) in comparison to me right off the bat (I have a bad habit of dismissing people who don't think enough). Humans are probably better off interacting in a way different in thoughts; we are more inclined to be amiable that way IMO.

Which is kind of unfortunate as I would love to read other's thoughts... Oh well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Although that can be a good thing as well as a bad thing. It levels the playing field somewhat. For example, somebody who does not think as much as me can still talk as well, or even better than I am able to. For that reason, I can't usually judge how intelligent somebody is (or just how much they think) in comparison to me right off the bat (I have a bad habit of dismissing people who don't think enough). Humans are probably better off interacting in a way different in thoughts; we are more inclined to be amiable that way IMO.

Which is kind of unfortunate as I would love to read other's thoughts... Oh well...

Yes I agree,

But it doesn't mean we couldn't be task specific..Just as java is meant to be multi-platform... it still has flaws in different areas.

In theory we COULD create/modify a language in a way that it was meant to be more efficient to describe our thoughts.

it doesn't mean we would have to use it in everyday life.
just for specific tasks...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
In theory we COULD create/modify a language in a way that it was meant to be more efficient to describe our thoughts.

it doesn't mean we would have to use it in everyday life.
just for specific tasks...
In theory that would be the thing to do, however I think it would be very inefficient to create a whole new language simply to try to describe our thoughts a little bit better.

Plus, it would be hard to know when our thoughts matched. Just because I say something is red and you agree, does not mean we see the same color. If that makes sense.

So I don't know if it is really possible to do (but I do wish it was...)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Plus, it would be hard to know when our thoughts matched. Just because I say something is red and you agree, does not mean we see the same color. If that makes sense.

So I don't know if it is really possible to do (but I do wish it was...)
Yes, that may be true but everyone can still acknowledge red as red. even if their red is our yellow. lol if that makes sense.

and I've spoken with a lot of people, and I've always been able to understand them. Even when they didn't understand them selves.

So through my experience. It seems as though we all are made up of the same things. even our minds. It's just how we perceive things. if you understand not just why someone says something but how they came to their conclusion. I believe you have a deeper understanding. but those bits and pieces of thought you can't explain. are also the bits and pieces of thought they can't explain. I'm thinkin because we have limited to no way of explaining. It's not impossible to explain. it's just not possible/really hard to explain through the communication methods we use. if language is restricting.. we as a people are restricted..

what do certain personality types have trouble with?
personality types are based off cognitive ability?
different personalities have a harder time understanding each other..
because how they understand their thoughts...or able to express their thoughts?
variety is good..

but in fields like psychology...or artificial intelligence...or anything that has to do with complete understanding esp. with the mind

how can we describe it if their isn't a tool to...

have you ever heard someone translating a different language say they couldnt translate a certain word or phrase..only attempt to..because there was no true translation to English?

its the same with a lot of my thoughts...

if we could communicate better, mental ailments may even be helped better through speech...

idk...it just makes sense to me....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,873 Posts
I may be completely off....but from how i think and from what i know....it makes sense...anybody have any input?
I do not translate. I see, I comprehend, I expand, and I remember. Language is not involved. Math is not involved - just images of numbers in the backdrop, with no indication of pattern of significance. When I discuss or write, language is involved. But in problem solving, like driving in traffic, woodworking, whatever, it is nonverbal and nonsymbolic processing. I remember verbatem and not in language. Doesn't everyone?
Yes, you are way, way off. I don't care to continue this conversation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I do not translate. I see, I comprehend, I expand, and I remember. Language is not involved. Math is not involved - just images of numbers in the backdrop, with no indication of pattern of significance. When I discuss or write, language is involved. But in problem solving, like driving in traffic, woodworking, whatever, it is nonverbal and nonsymbolic processing. I remember verbatem and not in language. Doesn't everyone?
Yes, you are way, way off. I don't care to continue this conversation.
And that's why I said you could be UNCONSCIOUSLY...doing it.
You would never know...Thank you for your input though, I appreciate you clarifying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
Yes, that may be true but everyone can still acknowledge red as red. even if their red is our yellow. lol if that makes sense.
I know this sounds stubborn and dramatic or whatever, but I would rather stab myself repeatedly than create a language to understand others better, only to discover we never understood each other because we thought the same thing was different.

and I've spoken with a lot of people, and I've always been unable to understand them. Even when they didn't understand them selves.

So through my experience. It seems as though we all are made up of the same things. even our minds. It's just how we perceive things.
I agree, we are all the same-ish, and it is all about perception; however, I think it is more that we are all the same in the beginning, and our perception changes us as we grow and shapes us into individuals. As hard as I try, there are some thoughts where I know what they are thinking, but I would never think the same thing.

it's just not possible/really hard to explain through the communication methods we use.
Yeah, that is what I meant about it not being possible

if language is restricting.. we as a people are restricted..
I kind of agree, but that is kind of a blanket statement. I think it is a bit more specific than that. Language only restricts some thoughts, and not others (like "Go water the plants." or "I am going to bake a cake." pretty much get the entire meaning conveyed, it is just the abstract ideas and details that it restricts).

different personalities have a harder time understanding each other..
because how they understand their thoughts...or able to express their thoughts?
I think language evens the field and actually gives clashing personalities a chance to talk to each other without immediate dislike to one another. This is one of the few advantages of the restriction of thought, in my opinion.

have you ever heard someone translating a different language say they couldnt translate a certain word or phrase..only attempt to..because there was no true translation to English?

its the same with a lot of my thoughts...

if we could communicate better, mental ailments may even be helped better through speech...
Yeah I agree, like when I said '50% of my thoughts can get lost in translation'.

Although I don't know about the whole mental ailments thing. I am sure a few mental ailments could be helped marginally if we had a better vocabulary, but the only way they would be helped a lot is if we were able to directly convey thoughts to each other without the use of language.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I know this sounds stubborn and dramatic or whatever, but I would rather stab myself repeatedly than create a language to understand others better, only to discover we never understood each other because we thought the same thing was different.
Lol it's fine. I think it just comes down to is a positive outcome worth the risk of a negative one.
and their might be other options in order to get the desired result, language was just an example

I agree, we are all the same-ish, and it is all about perception; however, I think it is more that we are all the same in the beginning, and our perception changes us as we grow and shapes us into individuals. As hard as I try, there are some thoughts where I know what they are thinking, but I would never think the same thing.
idk if you agree - if you ask how they came to that result...and they were to honestly tell you..It's usually a logical answer they've created through their perception of their experiences etc....
so if the logic IS logical..and you can place yourself in their shoes...and understand their thought process completely
to where it comes down to priority and opinion...
You can say we are all made up of the same thing...
the reason you could never come to the same conclusion and accept it i think goes back to the way you translate your thought
which I think causes the differences in personality

....

I think language evens the field and actually gives clashing personalities a chance to talk to each other without immediate dislike to one another. This is one of the few advantages of the restriction of thought, in my opinion.

I understand what your saying.
it just goes back to how we translate our thoughts though.

if someone translates their thoughts a different way...basically its like this..if we had to translate something from one language to the next to the next to the next...when not all words are able to be translated..they end up generalized...so each time they are translated it loses meaning..

so if we translate from thought...to whatever...losing meaning
then someone else hears it...translates it to thought (losing even more meaning)
they cant possibly know what your talking about the way you intended..

sure it allows for creation of new things in artistic kinda way..

but when things are suppose to be meant as TRUTH and nothing but complete understanding,, we are losing out...

we have no way of doing this...

except for maybe writing a book 7,000,000,000,000 pages long

but not everyone is in touch with their selves...
sometimes people don't even know what they mean when they say things..
or intend it differently.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top