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Discussion Starter #21
I'm ISFP. Sorry. Thanks for wanting to include me though
Oh awesome! I need more ISFP input too on the SP version of this thread. By the way... I think you wrote the thread on whether or not someone's actions change your mind about their art. The answer for my Fi is a very strong YES. I can't and won't disconnect them. It's important. Anyway, please respond over there! I'd love it!
 
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Oh awesome! I need more ISFP input too on the SP version of this thread. By the way... I think you wrote the thread on whether or not someone's actions change your mind about their art. The answer for my Fi is a very strong YES. I can't and won't disconnect them. It's important. Anyway, please respond over there! I'd love it!
Can do. And I didn't write the thread but I share your sentiment
 

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I'm looking for raw experience here. I think our minds are all fascinating.

1. What MBTI type do you think you are? If unsure, put unsure. I hope this is as far as we go with referencing MBTI. Don't worry if you answer all of the questions, but you can try to use the questions to probe into what your mind does. Please describe how you experience these things as best you can, ignore the questions and just dive in if needed. I hope we all learn more about ourselves and each other.

2. (a) Would you say you review the past and it replays when you’re reviewing it? Very often? Sometimes? You hate it when your brain does that? Or not really? How do you experience your memories? Very clear playback on voices and sounds? Or images? You remember all of the senses like smell and taste with equal playback? Or only certain voices, sounds, images and others are more difficult?
Can you recall very far back in play-back-mode? Or you usually only reference the past for big events? Is your memory very good for whatever you are working on at the moment? Do you remember certain types of memories best? Like specifically memories of people? Only memories with emotion? Do you remember numbers or names better? When you remember a certain time can you also remember what else was happening around that same time? What are you best at remembering? What are some of your strongest memories?
I'll probably answer this in pieces to keep the length down and also because I'm procrastinating something right now, which actually inspires me to introspect and I have been as I've been actively trying to overcome the procrastination/block/self-hinderence.

1. Probably XNFP.

2a. Referencing the past:

Now today I've been going through something somewhat unhealthy, but I'm hoping it will lead to a breakthrough and new growth. So this isn't necessarily healthy type behavior, but could be more of a Fi/Si loop type thing idk.

 


But I am supposed to try to do plein air painting today. I have a giant french box easel that was given to me secondhand. I'm not super confident in the physical materials there (perhaps relating to a lack of confidence in sensing). I'm not sure what I'm worried about...maybe it falling down. Maybe not being able to put it back right...

But it's also very much related to social insecurity. I don't want people to look at me and painting outside means some people might.

I was wondering about this as I drove around today looking for a spot. I did several sketches, which I suppose I can feel proud of.

1. After moving from my home town and during a difficult time in my childhood I used to draw a lot in the classroom...on my lunches, on my breaks.

Well this kid used to lean over me, breathing through his mouth. He would tell me things like "you're not as good of an artist as you think you are." or "you're just copying/tracing."

He was a bully of everyone, but I was trying hard to be invisible because at the new school it was really bad if you ever bought your clothes secondhand--it was like the biggest insult, and most of my clothes were secondhand. One of my friends openly talked about thrift shops and she was shunned and picked on mercilessly by the bullies, this one was the top bully in the class.

So I was thinking...well is that it?

I did imagine him looking over my shoulder again, sucking his spit in as he mouth breathed, whispering to me these things.

So the recall, in this case, was more prompted by my introspecting, my lazily asking myself "what am I worried about here?"

And it comes in images and memories, and feelings.

The second part of what I've been working through, which also comes from the past, is that my ex used to be really insecure about art. He thought I would sleep with anyone who did art also. He said artists were perverts and obsessed with sex. And he used to do this kind of dance thing like "having fun" as an insult--like if I did art he would say I was just "having fun" and treat it like it wasn't work or difficult or anything. I hated it, because he would then tell me I should put the relationship first, and then housecleaning and dinner. I should have dinner on the table every night at the same time. I never cleaned enough or right. And all I wanted to do was be all sexually deviant with the pervert artists and "have fun" (party).

Despite that I do not see art as a party at all--it takes careful concentration, problem solving, and hard work. He made me feel again like it was something to be ashamed of and not to consider an accomplishment.

When I think of him--again I mostly think of that little dance--that little "having fun" (party) dance, to illustrate his point. It's like I want to replay that dance over and over till I completely understand it, because it makes me so angry and I want to know exactly what goes into someone trying to sabotage someone else like that. And I want to hurt him back, even though it was so long ago and there would be no point. I just found it so insulting.

So anyway--this is something big I'm trying to unpack and overcome, but it's on my mind a lot and lately.

These two boys/men at different times in my life, that probably contributed to feeling insecure and being afraid of setting up an easel to paint, like I want to.

It's going to take a big "fuck you" and to quit looping through the past in order to overcome this.

And if I don't address it directly, it is more background noise. It's just feelings--it's like I feel like a bird who can't land anywhere. I stop somewhere and consider all the obsticles of plein air (setting, materials, inspiration, danger of the unknown, fear of failure, fear of criticism, fear of drawing attention to myself).

But I have to loop through those, I guess, until I can say a big fuck you and just do it. And say oh well--if it happens, fuck you.

I guess that's a bit of cognitive behavioral therapy there, because the fears I have are rooted in the past, in times I felt more powerless (as a kid in school or in a relationship with a controlling and emotionally abusive man).

Idk...I don't feel like that was very good analysis, and perhaps that's because I'm still working through this and it's also not typical of day to day thinking, I don't think.

But it was a useful prompt since I'm trying to figure this out and get out there and just do it. And so perhaps it can help shed light on how INFP can have trouble manifesting physical things (I think I read that in socionics, due to a block in sensing or something).

Or else perhaps it was just an opportunity to write a journal entry that will hopefully help me to process what I've been trying to process all day.

I have been listening to some nice music today on the car radio though and I'm really enjoying it.

Youtube spit out this good song:

I mean, perhaps I just won't like landscape painting. Could be all kinds of legitimate reasons for that, but I've got to try it to know--right? Or at least because I said I would. Maybe listening to music would help.



Dialogue--I feel like I was mostly running on lymbic system stuff...just feelings and emotions, vague. But then something strikes a chord or lights up...like a memory. I am talking to myself, but mostly to prompt myself--asking the question like "why is this so hard?"

Then maybe there's an answer in the form of an image or memory, or sensation. And then more talking as I try to decipher the answer and make sense of it.

That's when I am prompting it. When I'm not prompting the memory, it's just painful.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
That dance.
Okay, his stupid dance thing is driving me crazy now too. I never saw it, but your writing is very clear and I was able to put myself right with you and imagine it. I loved the metaphore with the bird, btw. Lovely... How could he have been so wrong? I've never heard of those 2 things being connected. I know a lot of people associate acting and partying...which is wrong...but art? Ugg. How could he get that so messed up...especially since you obviously weren't partying? Why are people SO blind to reality???
That dance.... I wish I could poke him with something while he was doing it and set him straight. LOOK AT YOUR PARTNER, DUDE. LOOK AT REALITY. THERE's 0% association. Why why why are there so many people who can't see reality? The bully was annoying too.

Art is wonderful and beautiful and you should find out if you like doing landscapes and how!
 

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Okay, his stupid dance thing is driving me crazy now too. I never saw it, but your writing is very clear and I was able to put myself right with you and imagine it. I loved the metaphore with the bird, btw. Lovely... How could he have been so wrong? I've never heard of those 2 things being connected. I know a lot of people associate acting and partying...which is wrong...but art? Ugg. How could he get that so messed up...especially since you obviously weren't partying? Why are people SO blind to reality???
That dance.... I wish I could poke him with something while he was doing it and set him straight. LOOK AT YOUR PARTNER, DUDE. LOOK AT REALITY. THERE's 0% association. Why why why are there so many people who can't see reality? The bully was annoying too.

Art is wonderful and beautiful and you should find out if you like doing landscapes and how!
Thanks. He was fourteen years older than me and I was early twenties, so that could have been part of why he was insecure--but there's really no excuse for it. He was in counseling through the women's shelter, provided free for men who met the criteria of being abusive...from his last relationship. But I was too stupid and I guess I put too much esteem in romantic love and I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. He was an ESFJ (or possibly ENFJ) and not very balanced. I think he could see reality but he was just being manipulative.

It's funny--I feel like I've mostly gotten through that part of it because I picked up figure drawing and loved it for a couple years (before they increased the price). But I guess it's just so odd to me how people can have such weird views of other people--like people who do art.

Most people are nice, but some people can have the weirdest ideas.

I found it so helpful to be in life drawing with my teacher and other students. It helped me realize how important it is to have people who share your values (or at least accept them) around you. Maybe when Covid threat is not as big I can join a plein air group, or maybe not--depends on whether I like it. I know I love figure drawing but that's out of the question with Covid, at least with live classes and models.

I think just taking it in steps--I ended up going back out again after writing the post and I still didn't try. I'm just nervous of how difficult it will be too. But I noticed that one of the old easel's legs was busted (I thought it was probably pretty cheap) and so I had an excuse to take it home and duct tape it. And then practice setting it up at home.

I mean...I don't love practicing things, but french box easels, especially the cheap old kind like mine, are sort of daunting and not really how I envision the creative act. I think once they become more familiar, just like a part of the body, they become easier to use for creativity. But sometimes its like tools have to become so intimate they are almost like family members or body parts.

Even with the canvasses, I found if I gesso them enough I start to feel some ownership over them--or as if they are now consecrated and ready to paint on. It's weird because I don't like monotonous things that much, but it also gives this sense of control and just preparedness. I'm mentioning this because it reminds me a little of Si. It's almost like marking my territory to re-gesso the canvas. It's taken on a symbolic meaning beyond the boring act of painting white acrylic ground onto a white canvas over and over.

So I've learned that it's important to push myself, but it's also important to be forgiving and to let things take time. I fixed the easel and I practiced putting it up.

I have this notion that if I show up in a site to paint very early in the morning I will feel a sense of ownership or territory over it, as if I belong there as part of the landscape even if people walk by. As if I won't be intruding, but I will somehow blend in with the bushes or something if I am just there since early morning. So I will belong there.

lol Idk--but I guess art is a process. And these things are all parts of what I need to process. I sound so weirdly territorial and controlling about it, but I guess that in some way there's got to be that element too.

I will try to reflect more on topic later.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Thanks. He was fourteen years older than me and I was early twenties, so that could have been part of why he was insecure--but there's really no excuse for it. He was in counseling through the women's shelter, provided free for men who met the criteria of being abusive...from his last relationship. But I was too stupid and I guess I put too much esteem in romantic love and I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. He was an ESFJ (or possibly ENFJ) and not very balanced. I think he could see reality but he was just being manipulative.

It's funny--I feel like I've mostly gotten through that part of it because I picked up figure drawing and loved it for a couple years (before they increased the price). But I guess it's just so odd to me how people can have such weird views of other people--like people who do art.

Most people are nice, but some people can have the weirdest ideas.

I found it so helpful to be in life drawing with my teacher and other students. It helped me realize how important it is to have people who share your values (or at least accept them) around you. Maybe when Covid threat is not as big I can join a plein air group, or maybe not--depends on whether I like it. I know I love figure drawing but that's out of the question with Covid, at least with live classes and models.

I think just taking it in steps--I ended up going back out again after writing the post and I still didn't try. I'm just nervous of how difficult it will be too. But I noticed that one of the old easel's legs was busted (I thought it was probably pretty cheap) and so I had an excuse to take it home and duct tape it. And then practice setting it up at home.

I mean...I don't love practicing things, but french box easels, especially the cheap old kind like mine, are sort of daunting and not really how I envision the creative act. I think once they become more familiar, just like a part of the body, they become easier to use for creativity. But sometimes its like tools have to become so intimate they are almost like family members or body parts.

Even with the canvasses, I found if I gesso them enough I start to feel some ownership over them--or as if they are now consecrated and ready to paint on. It's weird because I don't like monotonous things that much, but it also gives this sense of control and just preparedness. I'm mentioning this because it reminds me a little of Si. It's almost like marking my territory to re-gesso the canvas. It's taken on a symbolic meaning beyond the boring act of painting white acrylic ground onto a white canvas over and over.

So I've learned that it's important to push myself, but it's also important to be forgiving and to let things take time. I fixed the easel and I practiced putting it up.

I have this notion that if I show up in a site to paint very early in the morning I will feel a sense of ownership or territory over it, as if I belong there as part of the landscape even if people walk by. As if I won't be intruding, but I will somehow blend in with the bushes or something if I am just there since early morning. So I will belong there.

lol Idk--but I guess art is a process. And these things are all parts of what I need to process. I sound so weirdly territorial and controlling about it, but I guess that in some way there's got to be that element too.

I will try to reflect more on topic later.
Full support.
The nervousness is understandable. It reminds me of when I first sang for a crowd and was shaking but it gets easier. Just have to crack that ice. I bet it will all be beautiful because it is obvious how much you love art... and maybe that's where the nervousness stems from. I also got push-back for singing when I was young, but have recently found a teacher who honestly believes in my ability and her calmly telling me "this is going to happen" has little by little started to be believed my me...and yeah.. I love music so much and want to do justice to it. I bet you do amazing work and it will only get more amazing. I think when the love is that strong it is somewhere in our DNA... it just takes hours of experience and work. /hugs girl! Go claim that turf like a Jet or Shark from West Side Story. heehee.
 
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When I think of him--again I mostly think of that little dance--that little "having fun" (party) dance, to illustrate his point. It's like I want to replay that dance over and over till I completely understand it, because it makes me so angry and I want to know exactly what goes into someone trying to sabotage someone else like that. And I want to hurt him back, even though it was so long ago and there would be no point. I just found it so insulting.
what an asshole

People like him have no clue what it takes to create, the work, dedication, skill and even intelligence, but more importantly, they need the world to be a reflection of themselves, to reaffirm them. And because they're so terrible at challenging themselves, they will take down whoever threatens that bubble they've built. By bullying you for being an artist & reducing the worth of creativity, he just doesn't have to challenge himself, to really wonder why he doesn't do it. It's a defense mechanism to protect his shittyness.

this is my first post in the new platform yay
 

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Discussion Starter #28
How do I thank in the new platform? LOL @Red Panda you are thanked!
 
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Actually none of that was there and there wasn't a way to make new threads either. It all appeared after I re-logged in. However, I was able to reply without it. Who cares, though.
 

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INFP

Depends on the replay if it's something negative or a random negative thought I hate it. But sometimes it's just a random neutral thought. I can recall very random things and thoughts. The most random of object or experience can trigger a memory. When something big is happening I try to take it all in with all my senses.

I don't think about the future very much. Just me fantasizing about myself being successful at something. I think about my past more to try and learn from my mistakes.

My mind is usually never silent. It never shuts up and it can be annoying. It depends on the subject and context on how the thought it presented. I think a lot about what I'm going to say before I say it. When I usually speak without thinking something bad happens.

I don't like to talk about my feelings or thoughts very much because when I have. People make fun of them, so I keep it all bottled up.
 

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1. NT
2a. Brooding on the past is boring. My memories is a haze.
2b. The future is a straight line incremented with concrete goals. None of the goals are ever clear. They adapt as years pass me by.
3. It's a void.
4. ...
 
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