[curious0610]

I'm curious about this -- my INTJ friends and I were talking about this recently and almost all the INTJs involved in this conversation disagreed with the idea of tipping. So I was curious on hearing ISTJ views on this, too.

For me, I always leave tips (using that 10-15-20% guideline) because my family always reinforced leaving good tips, but at the same time, it's just become one of those social niceties I do neutrally. These days I feel that tips are becoming more of an obligation, rather than a voluntary personal gesture of kindness. Overall, I dislike either extreme - never tipping and demanding tipping as an obligation.

So yeah... I'm interested in hearing different aspects about the idea of tipping, reasons for it, reasons against it.

 

[curious0610]

I am okay with tipping good if service is good, but I am turned off by arguments that seem to implicate me in influencing the waitress/waiter's working condition and living standards. It's too much emotional involvement for me and it sucks energy out of me when the argument is played out this way. I just wanted to come by for a quick meal! I understand that it's unfair that some restaurants pay their employees less, but I think it's emotionally taxing to ask customers to be obligated to pay a tip because their waiters/waitresses livelihood depends on it.

 

[niss]

Reverse the roles. Now you are the one whose livelihood depends on tips. How would you prefer to be treated and thought of?

Always tip at least 15%. If the service is poor, I tip 15% on the subtotal (before tax). If the service was good, I tip 20% on the total (including tax) If the service was excellent, I tip more--up to about 30%.

If you want to be remembered on the next visit, smile and treat your server well. Some places I frequent, the servers vie for the opportunity to serve me. Some other places, one waiter has assumed dominance and tells the other waiters "hands off."

The real issue though is that you never know what opportunity to positively impact someone you might be wasting. The smallest things can make someone's day--or even change their life.

 

[Darkfiremat]

i can tell you tips are really apreciated and when i dont have any tips i often wonder what i did wrong and what can i do to fix it the tip is basicly what allow you to buy stuff until ur 650$ check is unfreezed but niss you give ALOT of tip 30% wow

 

[Wake]

Give 10% if below average service. This way they may learn a lesson from poor performance or learn that the job isn't for them, if others do the same. If you don't like that course of action then do 15% but take the survey most restaurants are doing and give them honest feedback. The managers will react appropriately.

Average give 20% because those people have a lot of stress on them, and most who did the job will tell you its not easy.

I give 25% if I'm happy with the service.

 

[niss]

but niss you give ALOT of tip 30% wow

To hit 30% you will work for it. Most come in at 20-22%.

I've also been known to tip twice. 15% to the waiter that bombed and 15% to the waiter that saw they were bombing and rescued the first waiter from certain disaster.

 

[Darkfiremat]

people often tell me they really like my service most of people who dont give tip are the young 1 and the old 1 but when it middle age person it really bother me because i think i give a real good service since people tell me so

 

[Caius20]

I'm against the idea of tipping. I'm already paying the establishment. The establishment is already paying the employee. I would rather the employer charge me more for my food and pay his employee a higher wage. To me, it's not MY job to pay the employee, it's the employer's.

 

[Wake]

I'm against the idea of tipping. I'm already paying the establishment. The establishment is already paying the employee. I would rather the employer charge me more for my food and pay his employee a higher wage. To me, it's not MY job to pay the employee, it's the employer's.

I don't think the incentive of working for the money is a bad idea, especially if the rest of their wage isn't being factored the cost of your food. They need to do their best job to do whats best for them and their company.

It does seem kinda goofy in practice, but I agree with the purpose behind it, as it creates over-achievers.

 

[SirDude]

I'm an ENFP, but would like to put my two cents in. I am for tipping at the right time, for the right reason.

In the US, restaurant staff depend on tips to make up the rest of their income. So I feel they are getting paid on a sliding pay scale depending on how well they serve. In Europe, etc, they are paid as an employee, so I don't feel the need to tip.

Things have gotten so bad in Florida (and other places too) that the employees at places like Subway even have "Tip jars" set out. I think that is pushing it too far. They get paid a fair wage for what they do. If they can't make a living off that, then find a different job.

 

[snail]

I like the idea of tips being voluntary, and of employers taking responsibility for paying their employees well. The problem with tips is the same thing that bothers me about Valentine's Day. No, I'm not just being random.

On Valentine's Day, everyone is expected to make some kind of romantic gesture toward the partner, which kills the meaning that would be present if it were a spontaneous decision. If a person forgets to do something on that day, the absence of a romantic gesture isn't seen as neutral. It is seen as negative, because the active fulfillment of the traditional act has become the new neutral, even though it would be seen as positive on any other day. In order to have the romantic gesture recognized as something exceptional, it has to be taken to some kind of ridiculous extreme.

With tips, if a person fails to give one, it isn't seen as neutral. It is taken as an insult. If a person gives the expected tip, it isn't seen as something exceptional. It is neutral and ordinary. In order to send a positive message, the customer has to give an unexpectedly large tip. Not everyone can afford to, especially after paying for an expensive meal.

It's a nice idea, to reward better service with some kind of bonus that the customer selects, but it shouldn't feel like an obligation. Waiters deserve to get paid well without having to depend on chance gifts and handouts.

 

[curious0610]

I've actually worked as a server before (at a small, local restaurant), so I definitely agree that tips are appreciated. I also realize that my experience at a local cafe/restaurant that paid me well is different than those who have served at big chain restaurants. Anyway, I always give tips, but it is more satisfying when I feel that the tips were well-earned and also when I feel that tipping was a voluntary gesture of kindness on my part. (I'm still a young adult so right now I'm sticking with 10-15-20, but I know that when I'm older and when I make more, this amount will go up more).

Also, as a student I've worked a slew of other part-time jobs, often working more than 2 or 3 at the same time in order to make ends meet. When I used to do the budget, I always factored in my wages for these jobs, such as serving. However, I did not factor in tips. Tips were something extra that went in my wallet (for my use or for donating), and I made sure that based on my working hours, my wages were enough to make ends meet (including some personal spending in the budget).

I guess this is why I dislike arguments from other servers that go along the lines of "Tips are important because if not, we can't make ends meet and etc, etc, etc. everyone should be required to tip b/c if not, my life is harder" I just feel that from the get-go, they shouldn't be relying on my tips to make their ends meet, because that puts a lot of pressure on me ! And I'M just trying to make my ends meet, too! Their budget should have been made flexibly with tips considered extra and it's selfish to judge people who eat at restaurants that don't give as much as expected. And it's this idea that there is an obligation imposed on you, rather than something done voluntarily for the benefit of someone (as social etiquette asks us). It's the difference between commanding (with emotional arguments) versus asking someone to comply.

I also don't like people who say things like "do you know how demanding this job is" as a reason for tipping, because when I was working, I went through the same awful conditions. I sucked it up and worked hard and did what I have to. I didn't feel resentment towards customers that didn't tip, and I worked without expecting tips (this makes life so much more easier). My coworkers probably thought I was cold though, cause I never related or joined in their ranting of bad tipping customers. I've also seen servers demand tips from customers (& complain about small tips), but won't tip their cab-driver or the grocer that helped carry their groceries (seems selfish to me). In general, I guess I really don't like emotionally charged arguments; as soon as I sniff any scent of something negatively emotionally charged, I instinctively don't like it. I prefer cold-facts such as "I'm a server - this is how much I make, and these are the conditions of my circumstances" or positive statements such as "you are making a difference/tips are appreciated." It's just the negatively emotionally framed ones that drive me crazy for some reason. And overall, I think our society is being stupid in terms of how this system is set up.

 

[Darkfiremat]

i think it depend i dont take it negatively and there always the situation of the person not everybody have alot of money to give tip and whenever i receive tip im always proud because i feel like the client is telling me im doing my job well

 

[curious0610]

i think it depend i dont take it negatively and there always the situation of the person not everybody have alot of money to give tip and whenever i receive tip im always proud because i feel like the client is telling me im doing my job well

Yeah, just from your posts, I know that you frame things positively.

I guess a lot of my frustration comes from people I have met IRL who get really emotionally charged about people who don't tip. I've experienced people saying things like "everyone HAS to tip. that guy is SUCH a jerk for not tipping, etc." I guess I like to view it as a voluntary act from customers but not an obligation that deems them morally good or bad.

I agree- when I was serving, I felt proud of tips when i felt it was the customer's way of saying 'good job' and going out of his way to be kind. However, when they divided up the tip jar, I donated my share to the homeless guy on my way home, cause i felt kind of insulted by it.

 

[Darkfiremat]

you guy share the tip ? where i work we dont because there are some who would simply slack off at my first day my boss regrouped everybody and told us this no tip sharing if someone gave you tip it because YOU did the job correctly

 

[niss]

I'm against the idea of tipping. I'm already paying the establishment. The establishment is already paying the employee. I would rather the employer charge me more for my food and pay his employee a higher wage. To me, it's not MY job to pay the employee, it's the employer's.

For wait staff, this is true. In other situations, not so much.

Take your local valet parking, for example. They are paid an hourly wage that is comparable to most low skilled labor positions. However, the tips they get can be quite a bit. And it is to your advantage to tip them in advance as well as when you pick up your car. Tipping well gets more personal service and a closer parking spot (read that as less time you are waiting and tapping your foot.)

I don't mind tipping. I do dislike it that the restaurant industry has used it as a method of divesting themselves of responsibility to their employees.

 

[niss]

Yeah, just from your posts, I know that you frame things positively.

I guess a lot of my frustration comes from people I have met IRL who get really emotionally charged about people who don't tip. I've experienced people saying things like "everyone HAS to tip. that guy is SUCH a jerk for not tipping, etc." I guess I like to view it as a voluntary act from customers but not an obligation that deems them morally good or bad.

I agree- when I was serving, I felt proud of tips when i felt it was the customer's way of saying 'good job' and going out of his way to be kind. However, when they divided up the tip jar, I donated my share to the homeless guy on my way home, cause i felt kind of insulted by it.

Like it or not, it is no longer voluntary to tip at least 15% when a waiter takes your order and brings your food to you. This may not be pleasant, but if you can't afford the tip, you should not be purchasing an expensive meal out. Eat more simply and frugally at home--no tip is required there. :mellow:

 

[curious0610]

you guy share the tip ? where i work we dont because there are some who would simply slack off at my first day my boss regrouped everybody and told us this no tip sharing if someone gave you tip it because YOU did the job correctly

we only shared the tip jar by the cashier. So... coins and a $1 bill here and there. And yes, we always had the slackers, too, and there was always someone putting in more effort or doing the harder work, but oh wells.

 

[curious0610]

Like it or not, it is no longer voluntary to tip at least 15% when a waiter takes your order and brings your food to you. This may not be pleasant, but if you can't afford the tip, you should not be purchasing an expensive meal out. Eat more simply and frugally at home--no tip is required there. :mellow:

Lol, I started switching over to take-out. I usually eat out if i just had a really long, draining day and don't have the time/energy to cook at home (whether its new food, leftovers or frozen food) <- college (and post-college) life! There's no tip required with taking-out so on my especially tired/cranky days, I just take out. :crazy:

 

[Qadosh]

I have a tipping app on my iPhone that I use to tip when I go out to eat. I'm a pretty generous tipper. When service is poor and I'm dissatisfied, I'll tip 10%. If service is mediocre I'll 20%-25%. If the service is outstanding and exceeded my expectations I've tipped 50% or higher depending on what the cost of my meal was. People that are stingy with tipping even when the service they received was not bad rubs me the wrong way.

Sidenote: since my app calculates to the exact % I think it's fun to have the total of the bill with tip included coming to a strange number. It seems like people with usually either round up or round down to make the total something even, like $20.00 for example. Often times my total will be something along the lines of $31.04 :happy: