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Marriage is pretty new? It's been held since at least 600 and before. Humanity is now thriving and multiplying without it, present continuous. Although I like your humour.
Homo sapiens have been around since 200 to 300,000 years and ancestors prior, 3.8 million years. A couple of millennia is a drop in the bucket.
 

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  • There are very few roles that are gender/sex specific anymore, why should we stand on tradition?
  • Why must men do everything? What social mores make it impossible for a woman to have so little power in their lives?
  • Why would you say that a man who "allows" his daughter to propose to a man doesn't care about them?
  • What exactly are you saying about women in general, that they aren't good/smart/strong enough to choose who they love and want to spend their lives with?
  • Deviating from tradition isn't a necessity unless it's needed, but why need it from start when it used to work correctly in past and no one was crying about it? I don't find leaving origins (innovation) is always good, unlike some others, moderation and balance is what we all need, everyone should be able to do what they're capable of, no more nor any less.
  • Why must men do stay at home and let their women work? "Breastfeed" her baby using some silicon based bottle? Change the diapers? Sing him a song before bed kiss goodnight? It really depends on what role they're playing, either going along nature or not. It shall be deemed as righteous or not. For the other stuff, women working more and so, I don't really encourage that nor go against it under certain circumstances, since children may be left unattended for extended periods, rather not have any unless you both are stable, but some seem to be unable to pull out. I don't believe that men shall remain at home simply because their physical properties allow them to have more work done (speaking generally, sometimes job dependent), unlike women, they can go through menstrual periods, which doesn't make them any worse, but just adds weight to their shoulders more than what they are already having, which isn't very optimal. Simply a man in home and a woman outside of are basically futile to me, a man and a woman outside of home seeking financial stability by working as hard as possible for a stable life afterwards are totally fine to me, although the woman mustn't work harder because it's simply unmanly to let a woman do such thing when you're simply capable of doing more alongside not having issues such as menstrual periods and so (only if they don't have children, if that's the case, then the man shall work his ass off and double the amount of job done while the woman cares for the child, if the opposite then it's just really messed up because the woman will see man as useless when she sees herself doing more than him as in effort done, simply because it's against the norms), well, if the man works from home and or the woman, then it's basically the magnum opus of living without tiresome acts, computer science FTW.
  • I personally would see my daughter trying proposing to a man something highly discouraged, if she's gonna propose to him, then why is he a man? Imho, a man should always initiate first, then a woman agrees or not, ironically a gentleman. Otherwise he isn't a "man" to me, acts speak words, and not the opposite.
  • Women are by nature smart, and most can control men easily, either in a good or in a bad way, don't get me wrong, men also can, but women just do it better which js a +1 for them, women are strong? I can't agree, if you're speaking physically, by nature. Unless you meant that in a somehow mentally based way. Women are good? Haha, of course, both men and women are, both have the same value to me but that doesn't make them equal in abilities, and there, differences make each unique in their own ways, same sex marriages don't appeal at all to me because of that, thinking of it as adding two same magnetic poles together, positive and positive, gives negative, while on the other side, negative and positive work damn well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
No I am not a father, but if I was, I would want my daughter to feel confident, intelligent, and strong, enough to decide for herself who she choses to be.
There are very few roles that are gender/sex specific anymore, why should we stand on tradition?
Why must men do everything? What social mores make it impossible for a woman to have so little power in their lives?
Why would you say that a man who "allows" his daughter to propose to a man doesn't care about them?
What exactly are you saying about women in general, that they aren't good/smart/strong enough to choose who they love and want to spend their lives with?
A woman propose doesn't mean she's strong or smart, it means that he's a coward or doesn't love her. Because if he loved her, he would initiate the marriage...

And if they marry, it will always be kept that she initiated the marriage. The father and family members will not respect him.
 

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Homo sapiens have been around since 200 to 300,000 years and ancestors prior, 3.8 million years. A couple of millennia is a drop in the bucket.
Theory of evolution is farfetched and has many holes in it's narrative.

A little joyful fun fact just for you:
"Charles Darwin, the author of THE SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION in 1859 and the champion of evolution, renounced his evolutionary theory and became a Christian on his deathbed. This was reported by noblewoman Lady Hope who said she visited Darwin at his home in England at the close of his life."
 

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Theory of evolution is farfetched and has many holes in it's narrative.

A little joyful fun fact just for you:
"Charles Darwin, the author of THE SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION in 1859 and the champion of evolution, renounced his evolutionary theory and became a Christian on his deathbed. This was reported by noblewoman Lady Hope who said she visited Darwin at his home in England at the close of his life."
Okaayyyy. It's my understanding that this is an urban legend and even if he did because people sick in bed, dying of horrific diseases can hedge their bets, it doesn't mean that his theory was false. But yeah, whatever. It sounds like you're trapped in the dark ages so I doubt we'll agree on anything.
 

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I don't have a complex about other people's relationships or gender roles so I honestly do not care
 

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Okaayyyy. It's my understanding that this is an urban legend and even if he did because people sick in bed, dying of horrific diseases can hedge their bets, it doesn't mean that his theory was false. But yeah, whatever. It sounds like you're trapped in the dark ages so I doubt we'll agree on anything.
We don't need agreeing on anything simply because it's not a necessity, having less different views discussions aren't as entertaining as these. However, I agree with you regarding that a theory can be true, although it was debunked by lots of people, one simple question is: How can such compounds form from a singular atom? I guess we both are in the dark ages then. shrugs.
 

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INTJ8w9⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐🌀💜🖤🖤💙💚🤍💛🧡🧡❤♀𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗦𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗘𝟳𝟴𝟳𝘅Just do your best!⚡
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It's really old fashioned. Also, your comment to tan about not caring about daughters is whack since fathers lording over their daughters is a thing of the past. Women are capable.
𝗥𝗘𝗦𝗣𝗘𝗖𝗧.
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It doesn't matter to me either way. I'd say if you really know the person you're with, you'd also know how they'd feel about the act of proposing, whether it's something they'd want to definitely do in a traditional way or if they'd be open to being proposed to. I have taken up the issue of marriage myself (not exactly proposing, just talking about the possibility) because I wanted certainty about the direction the relationships was going to go. We went our separate ways after that (not because I, as a woman, took the first real step), but I'm still glad I did it.

Wow. That is so bad for the both of them. I wonder what drew those two together in the first place, is it that they're both completely oblivious to the other's feelings? I get that it's a completely fight or flight situation for him, but still, really painful to watch.
 

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I don't like to go poking in other people's lives. Nor do I care about gender roles.
Completely uninterested; I don't care.
 

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I think it's a matter of personality. If a woman were to propose to me, it'd mean that she doesn't really know me since that'd be the most embarassing thing I could ever experience. Which is why I know I'm incompatible with a lot of women, especially those that prefer their own decision making capabilities over mine, who would rather do their own bidding than be flexible, attentive and caring of my own need to call the shots on important matters. I know there are some women out there who do want to take the shots themselves, and they have a lot of flexible, careless men out there who they can choose to marry.
You must realize that marriage is pretty new, on the scale of human existence and that humanity thrived and multiplied without it.
How do you know? There are olenty of animals who naturally split into couples, it's a great survival strategy and has been proven to be very important to the development of the child. All the evidence I can see around me leads me to believe that marriage was a thing far before it was institutionalized. Look at your avatar, it leads exactly to that - the duality.
Homo sapiens have been around since 200 to 300,000 years and ancestors prior, 3.8 million years. A couple of millennia is a drop in the bucket.
How do you know? Carbon dating is as reliant as playing darts. The assumptions on correct dates are constantly changing.
 

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There is nothing wrong with it. If he's a good man and she's smart enough to see that he would be a great husband and father, she would be wise to seize the opportunity. People might talk and gossip about her, but these type of people never run out of shit to gossip about anyway. Even if you give them nothing, they will make something up. If you still have a social mirror, do yourself and everyone you love a favour and throw it out.

If my daughter wanted to marry a man, I would check him out, and if he's a good man, I would support her decision. I'd even talk to him on her behalf if she was too shy.

As for the man being seen as a coward. Remember what I said about the social mirror? Having one is a genuine sign of weakness.

Let's be honest though. Assuming they're not morons, why would they tell people who proposed to who if they live in a community that frowns up the woman making the first move? And let's not even talk about public proposals. That would throw the assumption that they're not morons right out the window lol.
 

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How do you know? Carbon dating is as reliant as playing darts. The assumptions on correct dates are constantly changing.
Something funny, I wanted speaking of carbon dating, but if you think of it further, when & where the hell have they found a 300 millennium old human skin in an intact condition?
 

880361


 

^^^ theories in a nutshell, yet they complain about theories against their irrational theories, humorous people.
"I am a man of science, I follow scientists after researching, without any confirmation bias and not someone who declines it."
 

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What difference does it make?

I only see one problem - there won't be a proposal ring involved. Even if you gave your boyfriend a signet or something it won't have the same "feel".

Proposing is basically asking if the other one will marry you, and receiving an answer.
There is nothing gender related. It's simply communication. If noone dares to ask they migth both want to get married but be too shy about that, and end up living as a simple boyfriend and girlfriend forever. It wouldn't be a problem either but being married has it's benefits. You pay less taxes, have access to medical information, can raise children together without all the issues related to not being officially married etc.
Marriage is just a contract. It doesn't matter who initiates - both need to agree anyway.
 

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Something funny, I wanted speaking of carbon dating, but if you think of it further, when & where the hell have they found a 300 millennium old human skin in an intact condition?
 

^^^ theories in a nutshell, yet they complain about theories against their irrational theories, humorous people.
"I am a man of science, I follow scientists after researching, without any confirmation bias and not someone who declines it."
Science is just a modern variable of a belief system based on dogma. "Damn the unbelievers! Spread the message far and wide, for all eyes to see and ears to hear! The priests have spoken!"

Human capabilities have far outreached human consciousness, a lot of us are still stuck in our old ways.
 
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