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Discussion Starter #1
I've heard it sends ENFJ's crazy when they suffer from a lack of genuine connections with other people (close sibling/best friend/SO/etc etc). Does it? Or is that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

If it's correct, I'd very much like to hear how you attain these connections and what lengths you'll go to ensure they remain healthy, or even what length you'll go to just to form new ones.

That is all.
 

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If I want to make a friend with someone I will probably just ask them to do a common interest with me like fishing. Then I would try to learn about who they are, what they come from, what they do...their personal life. In order to make it meaningful you have to spend time with them in close contact. The rest would just be up to them.
 

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I've heard it sends ENFJ's crazy when they suffer from a lack of genuine connections with other people (close sibling/best friend/SO/etc etc). Does it? Or is that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

If it's correct, I'd very much like to hear how you attain these connections and what lengths you'll go to ensure they remain healthy, or even what length you'll go to just to form new ones.

That is all.
Speaking for myself. Yes lack of genuine connects drives me nuts. Ironically I don't know much about keeping them, because I tend to become in-genuine and I can't stand that so I sabotage the relationship.
 

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I've heard it sends ENFJ's crazy when they suffer from a lack of genuine connections with other people (close sibling/best friend/SO/etc etc). Does it? Or is that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

If it's correct, I'd very much like to hear how you attain these connections and what lengths you'll go to ensure they remain healthy, or even what length you'll go to just to form new ones.

That is all.
I have a sort of all or something policy (for lack of a better way of saying it). I have a few very close, very personal connections that I covet more than anything and many many acquaintances and a few people I'd call true friends. I don't quite have the energy due to how extroverted and emotional I can be to invest that in many people, so I don't tend to invest it in many. When I do invest it though, I expect it in return or else I don't feel like the relationship is mutual. It's nothing personal if that person isn't like that or willing, but it means they're not for me (as a friend or lover).
 

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time and patience. i don't form friendships with people easily, but they want to form things very quickly with me and it's tedious.. in my opinion. i have many acquaintances, but i personally have one best friend. just one. the people i consider as an acquaintance don't like to hear what i have just written.

time, patience and acceptance. when i enjoy someone, or the idea of them, another side is opened up. i become a really patient guy, accepting to a fault. i live by, 'you do you, and i'll do me.'


take your time.
 
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If I knew the answer as to how to form deeper, stronger bonds with friends, then I'd have a lot more friends :/

The truth of the matter is, it's hard to find friends who want the same thing out of a friendship, who are willing to put in a decent amount of effort into the friendship, who also have similar interests and have things in common with you. It is next to impossible sometimes to find long term friends. But this could just be my experience only. :/

The way I see it, the process is pretty simple. You establish common ground and keep building from there. Learn more and more about each other over time. Build trust in each other through sharing personal information and problems. Rinse and repeat until something changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Do any of you ever purposely not make the effort to connect because you're afraid of being rejected? Or is that one just me?
 

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Well, I sort people. LOL

Acquaintances: Once I meet a person, I consider them as a friend. I will then take the initiative to be friends and converse with them for a while. Sometimes, I just merely say hi to them in corridors, but if I don't feel like they reciprocate the relationship, then I'd better yet let them be. Though, I would know them and they would stay on this first stage forever, just that I won't have the initiative to say hi anymore.

Trusted: When this breach is broken, I will then connect with them in a deeper, more personal level. I will get to know their interests, capabilities and facebook so I can communicate with them more. Sometimes, I will even initiate the facebook chats; if they are so interesting. Although, this stage can be reached by people if they are my groupmate or if I am leading them in a team. This is also the part where I give them my personal assessment of the MBTI.

Friend: I am more aloof and friendly to these people. I will usually be open with spending money for them, but they will have to pay me back. This is more of a "since I trust you, I should show you why you should trust me" phase; so I'm usually kindest at this stage. I will show them how dedicated I can be as their friend and that I will stay with them through thick and thin. I have a lot of people in this stage, LOL. Of course, I don't let them abuse me. o D o

Good Friend: They are usually the people I invite to my house so my parents can meet them. Yes, usually for that purpose and drinking. LOL. I would also share my finances with them and not ask for them to return it. I trust them enough to share quite about myself and also don't expect them to tell me things they don't want to share with me.

Close Friend: I tend to show physical affection with them more than anyone in the previous stages. I am comfortable with being myself with them and showing even my most sensitive sides. My friends might see me cry or soften up, but they never really know why; these people do. More often than not, these people also share with me their lives.

Best Friend: These are the people I consider my long term friends. The ones that I am sure will stay through thick and thin because I have tested them. I trust these people fully and most of the time, they can use all of my personal belongings without asking permission. In fact, one of my best friends (the really really close one) has the key to my house. LOL. That's how much I trust them. They are actually considered as part of the family. They also don't need to know why I'm sad, they actually know without being told. In fact, most of the people in this area don't really communicate with me often. But we're still very close and still the same people when we get together.


A lot of my friends don't believe in giving names, but I do. I mean, I don't remove people from their area, I don't even forget people. LOL. It's easier for me to explain relationships with people that way. I have a lot of friends, so when they ask me where they stand, I have an answer. o u o

I usually don't force them to talk about themselves and usually just talk about what we're common. When I find that they're interested in getting to know me, then that's the time I do talk about myself. Most of the time, it's my point of views in a class we had or still something in common. I rarely share about my family information unless I really know I can trust them and I never suffocate them with talks about myself or forcing them to talk about themselves. Only if I know it's good for them, I will do it; but usually I don't. Especially when they tell me that talking about it makes them relive the past. I guess I try to be as sensitive with what they need as possible? o u o
 

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I don't know if it's just me but... How come I ask questions to people, and they answer, and I am genuinely interested in them, and they seem to be having a fine time chatting with me... why don't they ask ME questions?

What am I doing wrong?
 

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I don't know if it's just me but... How come I ask questions to people, and they answer, and I am genuinely interested in them, and they seem to be having a fine time chatting with me... why don't they ask ME questions?

What am I doing wrong?
Maybe telling them everything so fast that they have nothing left to ask?
 

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Maybe telling them everything so fast that they have nothing left to ask?
Actually, I find that I know "a lot" about the other person whilst the other person doesn't know ANYTHING about me. Ie. I know why they chose to major in Law, their families, where they are from, etc... and they don't even know my name - they don't even care to ask!

EDIT: Recently I've been trying to inject my own thoughts into the conversation... but I actually feel somewhat bad when I do that (because I say something to "gauge interest". The other person ignores. I'd be ok with this if most people did that. But... it's not MOST people who do that. It's almost ALL (let's say 49 out of 50) of them. The generalization is NOT wrong - it is almost ALL of them).
 

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Actually, I find that I know "a lot" about the other person whilst the other person doesn't know ANYTHING about me. Ie. I know why they chose to major in Law, their families, where they are from, etc... and they don't even know my name - they don't even care to ask!
Well, that might be your problem right there.

Where's the mystery? How do you make yourself appealing enough to be asked, when you're the one asking all the questions all the time?

The way I do it is that even if I'm not asked, I create a bit of mystery around myself by "telling stories". Things that I know might interest the other person enough to want to ask.

A recent example was in a thread - I casually mentioned that I have an uncle who suffers from PTSD. It caught one person's interest. It's about how you "market" yourself.

How do you make yourself needed? What's the one thing that you're great at - that you think the other person would like about you, and would like more from you? Are you good company? Do you have a great sense of humour? Wit? Sarcasm? Knowledge? Debating skills?

Over the years, I managed to develop different niches for myself that fill another person's needs - and in doing so allowed me to get what I need from them as well. I have some friends that I just joke around with and nothing more. Then there were friends I just used to hang out with. Then I have pen-pals who write to me every now and then about their lives. And I did so by asking. I ask how someone's doing ... and even if I'm not asked, I don't let it bother me --- I tell anyways. I don't underestimate myself anymore. I am secure in knowing that another person would want my company as much as I would need their company.

Sure I need my space and I don't like to be controlled in my relationships. Many of my relationships are on my terms --- but I don't mind giving self-lessly either. I've had several friendships where even though I was receiving nothing to very little, I sustained them because that was my thing for those particular people.

I think one of the ways to create close relationships is to keep the exchange healthy. Giving, giving and giving does get to a point where it may seem more draining than useful --- but it also reaches a point where if I'm not as giving anymore, then the other person does come to the realization that they're missing something in their lives. It's easy to be taken for granted --- but one has to be self-aware enough to accept that that's happening, but won't happen for long.

Also, I'm least bothered when it comes to reaching out for help and company when I want it as well. I say things like "I'm feeling a little lonely. I want to talk about myself for a bit." I openly do this. And even though initially I used to feel like I might be a burden, but I realized in time that that's not the case --- it's all in my own head -- that I'm over-thinking things.
 

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EDIT: Recently I've been trying to inject my own thoughts into the conversation... but I actually feel somewhat bad when I do that (because I say something to "gauge interest". The other person ignores. I'd be ok with this if most people did that. But... it's not MOST people who do that. It's almost ALL (let's say 49 out of 50) of them. The generalization is NOT wrong - it is almost ALL of them).
I have a question. When you're speaking to someone, are you really listening? I'm not generalizing, but I have this issue with other Te users as well. Sometimes I feel as though they have so much to say that they're not listening to me - and also more likely to be listening to the mechanics of what I'm expressing and not the emotional context of where I'm coming from.
 

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I've heard it sends ENFJ's crazy when they suffer from a lack of genuine connections with other people (close sibling/best friend/SO/etc etc). Does it? Or is that a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

If it's correct, I'd very much like to hear how you attain these connections and what lengths you'll go to ensure they remain healthy, or even what length you'll go to just to form new ones.
I do like genuine connections. To remain positive, I usually don't try to cause them any trouble. If it's with good friends, I don't argue with them and want to be there for them. But if I start getting vibes that its heading down an unhealthy route, I sorta just let the friendship quietly dissolve by distancing myself more and more. But it takes a lot for me to get this way because I do want all my relationships to work out. I become very introspective and think deeply about myself and the other person...for months even! I think about what I am doing wrong (usually the majority of the time)...only later do I start to realize that there is a side in which the other person is responsible too.

Now, this may spring from my dislike of conflict, but as soon as I realize how unhealthy things are getting, I am not really going into any great lengths to save the relationship (i don't really confront the person about my thoughts, which I know many people will say I should do).

I kind of want my relationships to be positive as naturally as possible (of course, not absolutely effortless which is impossible). Like a candle light that just grows and gets stronger because of the two people involved (working to understand, respect, and support each other), rather than just some initial spark that eventually starts to die down when one person gets too selfish. I am like this with "friendships" anyway. I don't want to build up those "toxic" kinds. Maybe, when I am older I will change my mind and work harder to change toxic to nontoxic relationships, but for now, it is too draining and kind of not what I want.

For an SO I may fight a little longer to keep the flame! haha. And with family, I do the best I can. For me, that flame is always gonna be there...will never go out, so I must put effort in making it grow big and strong.

And as far as forming new ones...I'm kind of those "shy extroverts" that another thread was talking about, so I don't think I go to any unusually great lengths to reach out to others.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I don't know if it's just me but... How come I ask questions to people, and they answer, and I am genuinely interested in them, and they seem to be having a fine time chatting with me... why don't they ask ME questions?

What am I doing wrong?
Ditto. I don't usually have problems with close friends, it's more when I'm making new friends that I always seem to be the driving force in the conversations. Drives me freakin' insane!
 
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My ISTP bestfriend and I had this major issue because I didn't open my life up to her when I knew everything about her... but she never asked me what she wanted to know so I didn't know what to tell her. When I asked her what she wanted to know, she didn't even know what she didn't know. LOL.

She stopped questioning me about it when she realized I barely opened up to anyone else and that ENFP only knew what she knew because she goes to my house and it's my mom that talks about a lot of my family history. XD

When I need to talk about myself, that's the time I do talk about myself. I usually let other people talk and I am perfectly fine listening to them and if they ask for advice, I'll also be happy to give it to them.

At the same time, though, I'm a very vocal person. But as much as possible, I try to detach my personal life with things I do. It's just really easier for me that way. XD
 

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Well, that might be your problem right there.

Where's the mystery? How do you make yourself appealing enough to be asked, when you're the one asking all the questions all the time?

The way I do it is that even if I'm not asked, I create a bit of mystery around myself by "telling stories". Things that I know might interest the other person enough to want to ask.
I DO say "interesting" things that should create questions... but I hate being very open about it. For example... I LOVE hearing about other people's exchange programs. I ask them about it and they are more than happy and excited to tell me. I sometimes throw something into the conversation such as "Oh yeah, when I did my exchange I had some different experiences". The other person acknowledges..... and changes subject (or goes to talk to someone else). I KNOW it's bad to say "I". Who cares about me, anyway? People care about themselves. But now that they've talked about THEIR exchange experience, why don't they ask about MY exchange experience?



Also, I'm least bothered when it comes to reaching out for help and company when I want it as well. I say things like "I'm feeling a little lonely. I want to talk about myself for a bit." I openly do this. And even though initially I used to feel like I might be a burden, but I realized in time that that's not the case --- it's all in my own head -- that I'm over-thinking things.
I feel TERRIBLE when I talk about myself. Not sure if trauma (my stories tend to be self-flattering, even if I don't want to... such as talk about exchange automatically elevates me above everyone else - because I did it -, even if the other person also made it. Apparently, I come off - or at least I feel like I come off - as if MY exchange experience was WAY BETTER than the other person - which, if I may add, NEVER is)... But I don't like to talk about myself because I feel the other person is not interested. Because no one ever is.


I have a question. When you're speaking to someone, are you really listening? I'm not generalizing, but I have this issue with other Te users as well. Sometimes I feel as though they have so much to say that they're not listening to me - and also more likely to be listening to the mechanics of what I'm expressing and not the emotional context of where I'm coming from.
I used to be like that but I've changed. I DO listen. I ask questions, I acknowledge what they are saying, I do what the "guide" of conversations tells me to do. So, in the end, the person tells me a lot about their experience (because I ask questions!) and they do seem like they enjoy it. BUT, once the conversation is over, I can't really tell if they enjoyed talking to me or not.

Afterall, I'm ALWAYS the one starting the conversations, even if I had a talk with the other person before.



Why am I not seen as interesting? I mean... I actually LIKE to (randomly!) ask why people chose the notebooks they chose, if they like a certain band, etc... no one else does it to me. They do to other people, I believe. But not to me.
 

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I think for an ENFJ connection is made with people that have similar values, morals and beliefs. This can be hit and miss if you're meeting people through work or a sporting activity (which is a more S oriented interest). I joined a meditation group but it seems to be dominated by introverts. They're nice enough but as an ENFJ I get annoyed when I do all of the organising and they do not reciprocate. What I've been wondering is what activities do ENFJs like to do?
 

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Actually, I find that I know "a lot" about the other person whilst the other person doesn't know ANYTHING about me. Ie. I know why they chose to major in Law, their families, where they are from, etc... and they don't even know my name - they don't even care to ask!

EDIT: Recently I've been trying to inject my own thoughts into the conversation... but I actually feel somewhat bad when I do that (because I say something to "gauge interest". The other person ignores. I'd be ok with this if most people did that. But... it's not MOST people who do that. It's almost ALL (let's say 49 out of 50) of them. The generalization is NOT wrong - it is almost ALL of them).
Are you sure you're an ENTJ? I experience the EXACT same things, and I'm an ENFJ. People just don't care to ask me about me.
 
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