How do you guys learn to feel less shame?

It's not rare for me to feel anger over "injustices". I probably have to work to not nurse a grudge, and I easily feel initial anger. I think it helps me to simply decide to not take it personally and instead to move forward with a more productive approach. The less I dwell, the less it grows, and the easier it is to move on.

I don't know if I have guilt over how I've acted towards anyone...I tend to feel guilt over not meeting obligations of standards I feel I should meet. Sometimes this involves feeling selfish or feeling bad over not fitting some qualities attributed to the female gender role (ie. being warmly expressive), but it's still more about an ideal than a specific instance, and it often involves a lack more than an active offense. The best way for me to solve this is to do it (to change) or to reframe its significance (not make it so necessary). Often, I have tied my identity to something, and it's more a matter of shame over not being some ideal I wish to be. I have to give permission for myself to be human & flawed & idiosyncratic, as I do with other people. I stubble with feeling unlikable, which is hard for me to get over because it involves others' feelings, and I may not be balanced in reading their signals.

I don't habitually ignore or avoid feelings of discomfort (all of this sounds very 9-ish, by the way). Instead I over-identfy with those feelings. I cling to them as part of my "story". I don't let myself grow past them, but instead use them to frame myself, so that they are a constant air about me. Even when I intellectually confront their source, which I often know as I've spent time dwelling on them and exploring them, they don't seem to dissolve. Maybe I just have to give myself a new story? I don't know, because I definitely haven't figured this one out. The better question for me is how to move past awareness, because I get suffocated by my own hyper self-awareness.

It helps sometimes to get outside data points, which give a bigger picture, one which gives me control instead of feeling fated to some role. It also helps to create new data points & exercise that control - start making a new story, which lessens the grip of the feelings over my sense of self.

HFGE said:

No, I absolutely was not talking about you. When I realized that I that edited out so the post simply wasn't directed at anyone. I do think an inability to accept blame and seeing oneself in a way that's a bit out of touch with reality are real problems 4s have to face though.

Although I really see that happen more with younger 4s than more mature 4s.

And the only reason I'm even bringing this up is because a lot of people seem to give 4s a free pass when it comes to their shortcomings.

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I don't experience it this way, nor do I think this is typical of the 4's inner experience. Rather, blame is internalized into shame, meaning, the person doesn't only accept responsibility for what happened, but they allow it to affect their sense of self. They didn't just make a mistake, but they are a BAD PERSON, someone less deserving of love, acceptance, happiness, etc, than other people. This is at the heart of the 4 fixation. It actually fuels envy.

A fair amount of 4s show a "counter shame" which may look like an "I don't care" attitude, but it's just a protective shell and a way of coping when the burden of shame is too great. I agree with the poster who said that self-acceptance and acceptance from a close, loved one are hugely important in getting past this.

As for others letting the 4 get away with stuff, well, we all cover over the flaws of others at times & may choose to focus on their strengths or else we'd have trouble getting along with anyone. Those people's decisions to do that are their decisions regarding their relationships with those 4s, and I'm not sure that rejecting someone or throwing something in their face is really the key to helping them.

I don't feel like I get a free pass in life when it comes to my shortcomings. I experience many repercussions, many of which feel harsher than those others experience for similar or worse grievances. 4 strengths are less celebrated also, unless you're an extremely rare one who has some genius - alas, most of us 4s are not famous artists. This leaves the feeling that we don't have much to contribute, so there is a withdrawing from life.

I guess what you suggest seems counter-productive when you know what's going on inside.

It would be like telling a 6 who is staunchly defending something that they need to question & doubt more....

I do my best to accept myself and work on the areas that need improving. These days, I'm much healthy than I previously was. I work at what needs improvement, accept what can't be improved, and take pride in the things I appreciate about myself. My identity is anchored in something permanent (my girlfriend), so that gives me a strong sense of security. That's really how I've survived with my present self.

I will say something that may sound odd though. There was an identity I carried which was the most shameful I ever had and did my best to escape. This was the person I was as a child. Everything about childhood was horrible for me. I was ignorant, a victim, manipulated, gullible, and all of these things that I despise. I had a poor childhood and was mistreated. This probably is the source of my shame. In any case, the name I was labeled at birth was wrapped with so many negative meanings that to hear it made me feel sick. Thinking about who I was brought up unbearable feelings. I wasn't the person I was made to believe I was, but I wasn't really anyone else either. I tried to be a certain way and stick to it for the sake of consistency, but that never worked. Eventually, I became healthier with the help of my girlfriend and did the above. As for this identity that was so pinned to me - I murdered it. Yes, I've become a different person since then, one that feels natural for me and one that feels like "me" for once. I took every piece of that identity that was pinned to me and obliterated it. It may seem excessive, but I ditched (almost) everyone that ever knew that part of me so nothing could remind me of it, I got a legal name change and disassociated myself with that prior label, and I became the person I felt I was inside. Every bit of whatever that identity was, I murdered.

I don't know, but I would like to know. I feel shame and guilt so easily, so automatically, it is like the air I breathe. I'm very weighed down by it, all the time. I feel shame and guilt for taking up space, physically, or verbally. I have a hard time feeling angry at others because automatically I'll feel ashamed for thinking I have the right to resent (perceived) injustice done to my ("worthless") being. As though I exist to be abused, even though I'm no longer abused.

This is hard to write. I wouldn't say I'm conscious of this all the time, usually I'm not. It's just something I'm exploring now.

I feel intense shame and guilt over the way I've treated people in the past, over pain or inconvenience I've caused somehow. Or shame at myself for not doing something better, not saying the right thing, not saying what I really meant. Not being what I could have been. Not giving more. Not leaving the right impression. I guess I really need to work on building up assertiveness and self-worth in the present, but I don't know how to overcome shame about my past. Accept it? How possibly, can I accept it? I have no spirituality to speak of, and when I die, I believe I will simply finally free up a little bit of space on this planet. In the meantime, how can I not feel shame for the things I've done so poorly, for any negative impact I've had...

Bwahahaha. Oh well.