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I mostly understand the original post, and I do not understand some of the negative responses. Kicking a person when he is down is mean and supposedly antithetical to the INFP type. (I'm deliberating holding back.) The challenges he faces seem amplified by his being a guy - depressed/not alpha, chronic pain - and I bet the replies would have been gentler if he were a she, thus demonstrating that point.

There are some right ideas I'll recap, like caring less about what other people think (many of whom aren't worth liking) and trying to spend more time around the right kind of people. What changes is he willing to make? I want to know. Sometimes it's possible to get superficial acceptance by looking attractive, which can buffer a little against the feeling of being rejected at the core and sometimes lead to opportunites for real acceptance. Those are how I've dealt with it, to where I'm not as depressed about it as I could be.
 
I bet the replies would have been gentler if he were a she
I'm willing to take you up on that bet.
I don't think on here the gender of the poster matters much at all.

If anything i think that some of the negative replies are due to this being one of hundreds of these threads/posts being made on the INFP forum all the time.
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
It hurts alot im in the same boat as you.
Thank you, that's what I really needed to hear. Things aren't all bad for me but sometimes I get pretty down.

Well, do you really accept yourself? Or are you looking at others first to see if you are someone who is acceptable?
Yes and no. I am fantasizing over a few specific girls (OMG get over it!) for acceptance, and I know that a ferrari and a townhouse would make a big difference (how superficial.)

How do we reconcile the fact that most people don't care that we exist? Forget figuring out how to be attractive. You have to get past that most people don't know you, don't care to know you.

You're depressed and have a ton of emotional baggage. What do you offer in exchange?
So true, they like my mask, don't want to meet the actor. Indeed, I am hard to reconcile, and often self-absorbed to the point I don't notice others' problems. Most of the time I'm fun to be around but sometimes I blame people and want them to share my burden, very selfish.

At their core, people in the image triad are fixated on the idea of getting love through "being something" or someone. Being validated by the external.
Ouch! Nail on the head. But I'm accomplished, that'll make people love me, right?! Gotta accept that certain people won't want me even if I get the Ferrari.

I think you need to look for the right kind of people. Find people you can actually relate with, whose values resonate with yours, and who are genuinely good, honest people, and care about them. And if you find yourself attracted to them and it's not reciprocated -- they're not the right person for you. Similarly, if your friends or love interests use you or abandon you, they are not worthy of your friendship.
Yeah, I've learned a lot about that this year, lost a few friends... I'm often attracted to the wrong person.

I've had male friends in the past (of various types) who have had a problem with being extremely attracted to almost every nice-looking girl they meet, regardless of how well they actually know them. As INFPs we have this tendency to be extremely romantically-minded and assume good things about people we are attracted to, which are not necessarily true.

It's harder for INFPs to find romantic partners as we do not fit the social norm, but I believe (though I'm very biased) that because of our traits that society percieves as "weaknesses" - our empathy, our drive for deeper meaning, our desire to help and truly understand people - we are capable of much more meaningful and deeply connected relationships than, perhaps, an ESTJ (which is the social norm). We just have to find the right person, whose ideosyncrasies and emotions balance and harmonize with ours. We have to find someone who we can make a real connection with, and who gives back to us what we give them, and that can't just be anybody!
Hey that's me! Yeah, I've tried being the social norm, man that was awkward! I'm not all insecure, but I definitely get misinterpreted as weak all the time. I just need to give up on Milla Jovovich, she's not good for me.

Anyway, I know confidence can be hard to come by but you just have to work at it, little by little. If you're using someone as a crutch, it never works out. Friend, girlfriend, whatever.
What if my leg's broken? Is it okay then? Oh I know you're right, you're right, dangit all of you guys are right...(Harry met Sally)

"People don't want gentleness and sincerity. They want someone who takes what he wants" I'll just say.... this is not true... period. I'm guessing you read that somewhere
Didn't read it, just felt it, second-guessing yourself isn't hot for some people. I just need to let go of certain 'hot' people (-:

All people don't want gentleness and sincerity? How do you know that when you talk to someone and they reject you it is for THOSE reasons? Perhaps it's because they can tell that you put a lot of value on their reaction and so they feel uncomfortable?
Yep.... not many people get us. Very very true.
Wow I am really fiaxted on the wrong people. I think I have a tendency to get down on myself if 3/100 people don't like me. Just the other night at a group I could tell one person didn't want to listen to me anymore, so I stopped talking to everyone, I need to stop being so sensitive. And for sure, I always think people reject me for the same reasons that have bugged me since I was 10, many assumptions, not a lot of healthy perceptions. I think I have kind of always been on the edge of major depression and people are scared they will set me off. I'm getting better though.

Thank you everyone for your responses, it helps me to see where I'm thinking and feeling wrong. I don't know why I am so fixted on one person, why I have this crusade to make everyone like me or I don't feel right. It helps to know I'm not alone in feeling awkward. I'll buy you guys a digital coffee anytime :laughing:
 
I'm willing to take you up on that bet.
I don't think on here the gender of the poster matters much at all.

If anything i think that some of the negative replies are due to this being one of hundreds of these threads/posts being made on the INFP forum all the time.
No. Despite a possible intense desire to feel like stellar humans, INFPs are subject to the same biases that other people are. Besides, I've never seen a female anywhere quickly get piled on like that for being negative. The only thing that might change my mind is a counterexample.

Anyway, I don't want things to off track again. His problem socially apparently isn't as bad as first suggested (depressive that no one likes), and that's nice to know.
 
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Watch your language please. I assume you know what kind of communication style infps' best respond to. In order to be effective in this situation, I would also assume acknowledging this knowledge of infp communication would result in the best outcomes for everybody. The OP has asked a question that many people here and elsewhere experience as well, no need to single them out. Many people could potentially benefit from the outcomes of this thread.
Beyond that, calling someone a "weakling" is verging on a warning.
I do apologize, not just to you but to everyone who read my previous post, I guess I let emotion get the best of me. Yay for my weakness
I totally feel like crap now, lol. .-.

I'm sorry, but you sound very blinkered. How can you make such grandiose generalizations about the human condition? If life were as simple as you made out, the world would be a very dull place indeed. Why should you accept someone if they can't even accept themselves? Because self acceptance isn't that easy for everyone. We don't all have the luxury of sauntering through life with no self doubt. And Roze, isn't it rather presumptuous to suggest that the majority of people who aren't attracted to you are stupid superficial morons with no common sense? A little modesty wouldn't go amiss.
The world doesn't exactly flourish with color either. You're right, self acceptance isn't easy for everyone, yet there's an incredible amount of negativity in this world--the amount of generosity is usually outweighed by darkness...one of the many reasons why we're looked down upon. Modesty...well, it's good for covering things. .-.

@AllorNuthin: Now that I had some time to really meditate on your posts, I do feel your pain. I commend you on posting your actual feelings, since that takes courage. Anyway, I have nothing more to say. I wish you the best in your battle through life...things will get better, try to take small steps, people do notice the goodness in others--even if it's not an overwhelming amount of people.

Cheers.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
cmon, it's all good, I liked the challenge, I was asking for your true feelings and you gave them. As long as we can keep the lines of communication open, I am happy to be able to get your point of view. Plus, I'll admit to feeling the exact same way about myself more than once. And I was letting emotion get the best of me ALL last night, no biggie.
 
cmon, it's all good, I liked the challenge, I was asking for your true feelings and you gave them. As long as we can keep the lines of communication open, I am happy to be able to get your point of view. Plus, I'll admit to feeling the exact same way about myself more than once. And I was letting emotion get the best of me ALL last night, no biggie.
Of course we can keep the lines of communication open! ;O Guess we both had a bad night, lol.

So now to attempt to keep things more on topic: Just keep doing what you do best. Don't worry about the alpha males; we can excel at area's that they may or may not have trouble keeping up in. I had a period of depression in my senior year of High School, so I can relate. We have to become stronger; not in a bad way, but in a way so that we can put the past behind us and work on bettering ourselves, so we can ultimately be a better person to other people who may need us, and so we can befriend and get girls who'll love us for our personality.
 
Alpha males disgust me, to be honest. High school halls seem to breed them and they never really grow out of that uber-jock high school mentality. I would never, ever want to be anything like them. Not being one I can't say, but it seems to me that after high school is over most relatively smart girls lose interest in the alpha males who spend their lives in gyms saying words like 'deezed' and ending every sentence with 'yo' even though they're upper-middle class white boys and watch Axe commercials like some people read Bible scriptures and become more interested in smart guys.

What I would say is just try to be yourself. If people don't like you for who you are then they certainly aren't going to like you for pretending to be someone else. A lot of people have such a hard time believing it, but truer words have never been spoken.
 
How are you being rejected? Rejection is sort of INFP kryptonite but I think a lot of us perceive there to be rejection when there is none. Maybe some sort of painful self-awareness thing where we concentrate on everything wrong we said or what we could have done better to be more liked. Are you actively looking for friends? It's easy to sit at home and brood about how making friends is really hard (which is sort of true - I brood about this on personalitycafe all the time :p) but if you're not actually trying to make friends, maybe you're digging the depression pit deeper. I don't know... I feel a lot happier when I have friends around. What I'm trying to say, without coming off too harsh... get out of your house and do stuff. I wish you the best, though.
 
How are you being rejected? Rejection is sort of INFP kryptonite but I think a lot of us perceive there to be rejection when there is none. Maybe some sort of painful self-awareness thing where we concentrate on everything wrong we said or what we could have done better to be more liked.
This.

Rejection is one of the things that can really send an infp (or anyone in the image triad) into stress mode. We all react in different ways, but generally it sends us into a "question ourselves" mentality. We may withdraw, question ourselves and become very negative about who we are. Rejection may bring out the worst of us because it is the ultimate recognition that there is something about us that is not right. And if you already think you are defective, then it is the worst case scenario, where somebody else has seen what we think is bad about ourselves, and it's suddenly been validated. We've all been there, so you're definately not alone.

Something that set me free, AoN, is the notion that you can't control how other people think about you. Do you think they are entitled to their own perspective? just like you are, your own?
There are some people out there, who you will just never please. You could bend yourself over backwards, and they will never be satisfied. People will cut you out, ignore you, even after they've gotten to know you. You may percieve it as an example of total rejection of who you are, but no one sees all the sides of you except for you. Of all the people out there, only you are best in the position to objectively look at yourself, because you're the only one with all the information.
Think about how different people look at movies. You may have a favourite movie you love to watch over and over and you think it's perfect, yet your best friend thinks it's the worst thing they've ever seen. You can't possibly understand how they judge the film in such a way, but there's no negotiating around the fact that everybody percieves and judges in their own way, and it's not up to you to take responsibility for their thoughts.
You want them to see what you see in yourself, but it's just never going to happen. Maybe they don't want to see any more than they already do; they are already closed off to begin with.

Society works on an image basis. There are certain fronts that make you more acceptable to people generally (status, power etc) but it's not recognised by all people. You've probably gotten positive feedback in the past, but downplayed it. People also show respect in different ways too. There are many ways of interpreting the signals people give you. Keep the channels of perception open before you filter them :)
 
For me, my faith helps me through that I've not found anyone attracted to me. I"ve accepted the fact that it may be years from now that anyone would find me attractive and there are days when my heart feels crushed by it, but I always find a lot of comfort just praying. I have fully accepted myself as who I am and I'm not looking to change anyone else or myself. If anyone does come along my way and does fine me attracted I'll be happy, if no one ever crosses my path and never finds me attractive, then I'll be happy, but still have that little sting in my heart. I still have my own dreams and desires of my heart that have nothing to do with finding someone that I want to see come to pass and if I don't share them with someone, so be it.
 
I find a good thing to boost your confidence is if you accomplish something. not something that anyone would recognize, but just something that makes you go "wow, look what I made, I'm so brilliant!"

I know what you're going through, I think we've all been there. It's somewhat of a paradox: you're supposed to get this stuff out of your chest, but if you do people will hate you even more for emitting negative energy.

There comes a point where you realize many people are so superficial to a sickening level, it's not even funny, and I don't care if they understand me or not; frankly, if they appreciate me I'd consider that a bad sign: maybe I've gone too far off from who I really am. (unless they're appreciating me for being nice, or something like that).

In a way it's arrogant to think that others are not worth caring about, but in a way it's the only way to be content with who you are and become more true to yourself.

Pretending to be someone else doesn't help you at all. Partly because we INFPs are so bad at it; it shows right away. Partly also because you can't sustain that fake image for a very long time, so even if they believe it at first, it'll eventually show that this is not who we really are.

It helps a lot if you have relatives, although I don't know if this applies to an individualistic society (like most western societies) but I find being around relatives helps a lot; even if they don't particularly talk to you or anything, they acknowledge you and you don't feel so lonely because there are so many people around.

but basically we're in a sort of a double bind: you want to be true to yourself but you don't want to be lonely. I say: be true to yourself. I'd rather be true to myself and lonely than be fake and surrounded with bad company.

and um, this might be a bit embarrassing, but I find that watching things like this help a bit :p

(sshhh .. don't tell)

youtube viddeo: QxQ62NS_2Q4 (can't post direct link .. not enough posts :( )
 
This.

Rejection is one of the things that can really send an infp (or anyone in the image triad) into stress mode. We all react in different ways, but generally it sends us into a "question ourselves" mentality. We may withdraw, question ourselves and become very negative about who we are. Rejection may bring out the worst of us because it is the ultimate recognition that there is something about us that is not right. And if you already think you are defective, then it is the worst case scenario, where somebody else has seen what we think is bad about ourselves, and it's suddenly been validated. We've all been there, so you're definately not alone.

Something that set me free, AoN, is the notion that you can't control how other people think about you. Do you think they are entitled to their own perspective? just like you are, your own?
There are some people out there, who you will just never please. You could bend yourself over backwards, and they will never be satisfied. People will cut you out, ignore you, even after they've gotten to know you. You may percieve it as an example of total rejection of who you are, but no one sees all the sides of you except for you. Of all the people out there, only you are best in the position to objectively look at yourself, because you're the only one with all the information.
Think about how different people look at movies. You may have a favourite movie you love to watch over and over and you think it's perfect, yet your best friend thinks it's the worst thing they've ever seen. You can't possibly understand how they judge the film in such a way, but there's no negotiating around the fact that everybody percieves and judges in their own way, and it's not up to you to take responsibility for their thoughts.
You want them to see what you see in yourself, but it's just never going to happen. Maybe they don't want to see any more than they already do; they are already closed off to begin with.

Society works on an image basis. There are certain fronts that make you more acceptable to people generally (status, power etc) but it's not recognised by all people. You've probably gotten positive feedback in the past, but downplayed it. People also show respect in different ways too. There are many ways of interpreting the signals people give you. Keep the channels of perception open before you filter them :)

You have an unending, intrinsic worth that no other human being can malign or reject. No amount of external validation is needed when you realize this. Let those who reject you, go on their merry way. Like Nova alluded to here, give them the freedom to decide for themselves just as you would want others to give you the freedom to decide for yourself. On the other hand, if you start pursuing love in disingenuous ways, you will only reap what you sow, and your inner idealist will war against your actions. The world is full of sadness, loneliness, and disconnected souls. Reach out to them. They need you more than those who reject you. It takes time to learn how to have a healthy sense of self, so I don't blame you for what you are experiencing. I think the key is to never give up on yourself.
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
what really sucks is when people find you attractive, then as they get to know you they quickly become unattracted to you.
Story of my life man. (Half Baked) "I think they're mistaking my kindness for weakness.."

Rejection is one of the things that can really send an infp (or anyone in the image triad) into stress mode. We all react in different ways, but generally it sends us into a "question ourselves" mentality. We may withdraw, question ourselves and become very negative about who we are.
Yeah, all week! Heck I feel rejected after having bad dreams! Last night it was everyone riding atvs up a steep hill to get to this beach, everyone made it but I kept slipping right at the very top, tried jumping off and climbing up but I still couldn't make it, then I got in trouble with something (I forget the rest.)
I remember this one morning when I was going to highschool, woke up alone in the house and late to leave. I had this dream about a girl I liked who was laying next to me in bed, nothing sexual at all, just snuggling and arms wrapped around each other. Then I woke up in the same bed, but no girl. I cried and was depressed for like a month just thinking about it. Man I got issues..

Rejection is sort of INFP kryptonite but I think a lot of us perceive there to be rejection when there is none. Maybe some sort of painful self-awareness thing where we concentrate on everything wrong we said or what we could have done better to be more liked.
This just happened with a girl I like. I got all happy-go-lucky and everything's great-idealistic and went to say hi to her and socialize. Knocked on the door but she was working out back, so I popped my head over the fence and asked about her garden. It scared her, and her dog was barking at me, and I could tell she did NOT want me there. So I said,"just wanted to say hi!" right as a diesel truck screamed by, then I walked back home, head hung low, hating myself for the next 10 days. Then the next time I saw her she was all flirtatious and in good spirits. I apologized for scaring her cause I always feel the need to excuse myself for liking someone, and she was really cool. Now all the self-doubt and anger falls away. What a rollercoaster! But it gets better, especially being able to vent to you guys.
 
This is how I have handled this for myself & counseled others.

There is a salesman formula that says 100 cold calls turns into 5 leads/sales pitch opportunities which leads to 1 to 3 closed sales.

Think or apply the same to women.

You must realize whether you know it or not that everyone simply does not like everyone else.

When it comes to the boy likes girl could girl like the boy thing, well my gosh man it don't get more confusing, complex, & difficult.

100 meets = 3 to 5 pitch opportunities = 1 to 3 closes.

& remember bro you GOT TO CLOSE!
 
I have gone pretty much the same path as you AllorNuthin. Everyone seems to pretty much like me and I never had any trouble finding the right kind of friends for me. But as for romance and love, nada.

I have this notion, to some maybe outdated and hopelessly and unrealistically romantic, that there is such a thing as true love and I have been looking for it all my life.

But for decades on end it just was not happening. There were very few people whom I ever felt a true attraction too and not a single one of them was interested in me.

And yet, one day, completely by chance I blundered into her. Online on a support forum of all places. And all I had to do was to be myself, exactly as I was. I did not have to change. What I brought to the table was just what she needed and wanted. All my quirks, my non alpha male disposition, my INFP ness, were qualities that helped me gain her heart.
 
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