Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have this problem with people who i consider over emotional, i cant stay around them for long, and i feel like my head will explode. In-fact there is a guy in my class sitting beside me now, and most of the time i feel like killing him, he is always complaining about his problems, always feeling hurt when i tell him the truth, and always calling me in the night telling me how i hurt his feelings. I try to keep my disgust for him inside but sometimes it shows. im wondering how other ENTPs view those who we consider over emotional,or just to darn sensitive. :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
I do one of two things, if I HAVE to be near them I act insane so they leave me alone usually I can't deal with all that headache and just walk away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,933 Posts
If it's someone I can't just walk away from (a boss, my histrionic ESFJ mum as a kid), I'll pull out the charm and pretend I actually give a shit. (Sincere "listening" nodding, sympathetic expression and lovebombing) It drains me so badly I end up falling asleep soon after, but it works. haha

Otherwise, I hang up on them or abruptly make an excuse to get the hell out of there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,170 Posts
I have this problem with people who i consider over emotional, i cant stay around them for long, and i feel like my head will explode. In-fact there is a guy in my class sitting beside me now, and most of the time i feel like killing him, he is always complaining about his problems, always feeling hurt when i tell him the truth, and always calling me in the night telling me how i hurt his feelings. I try to keep my disgust for him inside but sometimes it shows. im wondering how other ENTPs view those who we consider over emotional,or just to darn sensitive. :laughing:
Thats a VERY good question..

Probably first sarcastic hints, avoidance and in the end obvious frustration. Then again, if you have people who share their sad stories with you and ignite your sympathy but later use their poorness/self-pitty as an advantage...well..that can become real unpleasant when you find yourself being pulled down by the quicksand.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I actually can't deal with people who are too emotional or irrational about things. It's too overwhelming for me, so my first reaction to to block them out, somehow. My mom's gotten angry at me for that as I've just gotten up and left when she's had extreme emotional reactions to things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
If it's someone I can't just walk away from (a boss, my histrionic ESFJ mum as a kid), I'll pull out the charm and pretend I actually give a shit. (Sincere "listening" nodding, sympathetic expression and lovebombing) It drains me so badly I end up falling asleep soon after, but it works. haha

Otherwise, I hang up on them or abruptly make an excuse to get the hell out of there.
This, basically.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
If I care enough to respond, I tell them all the same shit, "Being upset won't change anything/Life goes on/There are children being pumped full of drugs and fucked for money."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
For me, it depends on the person/situation. If I'm dealing with someone at work, I'll either tell them "I really think it's best to keep personal feelings out of the work place" (this is if I actually LIKE the coworker) or simply "I don't want to hear about it" (used on pretty much a daily basis to everyone else) and walk away.

When it comes to friends, I usually tell them that they're blowing things out of proportion (with a good explanation of why) and that really, it's not the end of the world and somehow it'll all work itself out. I'm known to be the voice of reason to most of my close friends so I often have some piece of advice to satisfy them, or make them dwell on it long enough to get them shut up for a while.
This is particularly difficult because one of my bestest besties is an ENFP (most emotional one I've ever met. she cries at the drop of a hat. no, really. this isn't an exaggeration some days) and many times she accuses me of being apathetic, cold, or uncaring. I accuse her of being too much of a stereotypical girl and I don't see how getting worked up over everything solves much of anything, etc etc etc.... We get into our tiff, then make up the next day when she sees that maybe she really did overreact yet again, and that, yes, indeed, my suggestion of smashing things with a baseball bat behind Pier 1 really does help soothe the mind. It gets exhausting, but I loves her enough to deal with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,523 Posts
ugh. i hate this.

usually I block it out completely. I've become very immune to this over the years, but I'll just leave if I can't take it anymore. If I were in a class situation, I'd probably just draw or write a lot to keep my mind off of it. Or a picture of me stabbing them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
If they're bitching at me then I stare at them with an expressionless face holding eye contact the entire time. When they start asking me questions, I respond in a calm and monotone voice. It drains them really fast or scares the hell out of them.

If they're venting/crying about something else then I lend a sympathetic ear, if I believe it's something to cry about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
I think when it comes to emotional stuff, I find use in finding someone who "feels" similarly to me (which would be about as much as you guys do, if not less) So essentially your issue is that someone who does not feel like you do is kind of pestering you because of the difference..

As for me, I try to figure out what the hell they're on about, and when I figure out what it is, I do the Te thing if I think they'll be able to understand it. After that I get distracted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
I find the emotional ones tend to also be more passionate. There are trade offs with how much I will put up with depending on the nature of the relationship and my desire or lack thereof to maintain said relationship.

I try to be empathetic but if lamps or other projectiles are thrown at me I mainly dodge and weave allowing the emotions to play out. Then when the person has exhausted all that energy and calmed down I say:

see! I told you so! :laughing:
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
Okay, I know I've wandered into your territory, but I need help understanding why being expected to care about people's feelings irritates you so much? Are you all just heartless? (I'm not asking this to be rude. I'm seriously curious.) I mean, what's the deal? Reading through this thread, I can't make sense of it. How is it a flaw for someone to seek emotional support from you? Isn't our duty as human beings to comfort and take care of each other? Seriously. Why would it be a problem at all to just be nice to the people who need you? Why would anyone feel upset about being expected to treat others respectfully instead of being invalidating or cruel to them, or abandoning them?

I'd like to be able to empathize with what it is like to be an ENTP, but after reading all of this, I am more confused about you than ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,933 Posts
Okay, I know I've wandered into your territory, but I need help understanding why being expected to care about people's feelings irritates you so much? Are you all just heartless? (I'm not asking this to be rude. I'm seriously curious.) I mean, what's the deal? Reading through this thread, I can't make sense of it. How is it a flaw for someone to seek emotional support from you? Isn't our duty as human beings to comfort and take care of each other? Seriously. Why would it be a problem at all to just be nice to the people who need you? Why would anyone feel upset about being expected to treat others respectfully instead of being invalidating or cruel to them, or abandoning them?

I'd like to be able to empathize with what it is like to be an ENTP, but after reading all of this, I am more confused about you than ever.
I'm no one's mommy. People are responsible for their own thoughts and feelings. There are usually more important things to do than to stand around listening to someone cry, whine and scream. Now if they need a practical action plan or actual, solid advice, that's perfectly fine. Things can be analyzed and plans can be made to yield tangible results.

There's nothing heartless about it, I just don't see why it'd be my responsibility.

And this is coming from a possible ENFP. So I'm basically an extroverted version of you. :cool: (in mbti terms, that is)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,804 Posts
I'm not an ENTP, but I want to just interject my own views.
Okay, I know I've wandered into your territory, but I need help understanding why being expected to care about people's feelings irritates you so much? Are you all just heartless? (I'm not asking this to be rude. I'm seriously curious.)
The word "heartless" is still quite pejorative though, and it shows a limited perspective on this whole issue of emotionality, personal responsibility, personal boundaries, and being nice to others. Using words like that and couching everything you say in your own moral language (with zero acknowledgment of the existence of other value systems) is what gets other people pissed at you. Which then leads to great arguments.

Isn't our duty as human beings to comfort and take care of each other?
That idea is something that kind of pisses me off. You're basically saying that everybody should always bend over backwards for everybody else. You're not saying that people should do that if they want to. You're saying that everybody has a duty to do that. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

I mean, what's the deal? Reading through this thread, I can't make sense of it. How is it a flaw for someone to seek emotional support from you? Why would it be a problem at all to just be nice to the people who need you?
It's impossible to please other people or be nice to them all the time. When you try to do that, other people just take advantage of you. If you don't make your needs known, and if you're not willing to piss off or offend other people sometimes, they'll just step all over you. They won't respect your needs, and you'll be constantly trying to please other people while other people just keep taking and taking from you. There are other things that are as important, or more important, than being kind and respecting others. Like, respecting yourself.

Also, as it just so happens, some people wouldn't think you were being nice to them unless if you agreed with everything that they said. But, what if I think somebody else's opinions/views are crazy? Do I have to acquiesce to everything they say, and not state my own views, just because it'll upset the other person? Is it really my fault that being myself upsets other people? That's their problem.

Some people just get annoyed or upset by anything and everything I would say, and being around them is like walking on eggshells. At some point, you just have to say, "Fuck it. I don't care if I piss you off or upset you. If I did what you wanted me to, if I was always trying to be nice to you, it would destroy me. You're not looking out for my best interests. You just want the whole world to baby and take care of you. I'm not going to let you take advantage of me. If you're upset by something I say, then don't throw it on me as though I have a moral duty to not make you feel anything painful. It's not my fault that being myself causes you so much pain, and I'm not going to distort, destroy, and handicap myself. I have to flourish and be whatever I am, because that's what makes me happy. Why do you think your happiness or your suffering is somehow more important than mine, or everybody else's? Did you consider that other people have needs of their own? That the whole world doesn't revolve around you? That people who have decent self-esteem and respect themselves aren't going to efface themselves just to avoid upsetting you?"

Why would anyone feel upset about being expected to treat others respectfully instead of being invalidating or cruel to them, or abandoning them?
If you're expecting everybody else to desecrate who they are just to avoid upsetting you...I consider that disrespectful to them. You can't force people to be nice. "Cruelty" is your word for anybody who says anything that upsets you. "Invalidating" assumes that it is the responsibility of other people to validate everything that you are--if I don't agree with your opinions, your thoughts, do I really have to bury my own feelings and say that they're correct? Have you considered the concepts of personal freedom and autonomy? Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean that they don't exist or aren't important for lots of people. "Abandoning" assumes, again, that it's other people's responsibility to take care of you and go out of their way to avoid doing anything that causes you suffering.

Anybody who acceded and agreed to all of your demands would be destroyed in the end. It is out of self-respect, personal dignity, and a spirit of honesty and bold authenticity that people decide not to do all of these things that you think are "required". Just consider what you're doing to other people when you demand all of these things from them. And the effect that they have on them. And realize that if you value respect so much, it has to go both ways. Different people need different things and value different things--not everybody thinks like you do.

Part of being yourself is being willing to say, "No, I won't do what you want. And if it upsets you and you claim I'm being mean, immoral, invalidating, cruel, and all of that other shit ... I still won't do it. Because I don't want to do it. I don't believe in it. I won't let you control and manipulate me. I won't let you dictate who I am. I have to be myself--I like myself, even if you don't like me. My value as a person doesn't depend on you liking me. If you had it your way, you would just keep taking and taking from me until you had sucked me dry and turned me into an extension of yourself. You're like a black hole that needs to keep consuming and sucking things out of other people in order to survive. I won't let you drain me. Fuck you and your needs."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
Okay, I know I've wandered into your territory, but I need help understanding why being expected to care about people's feelings irritates you so much? Are you all just heartless? (I'm not asking this to be rude. I'm seriously curious.) I mean, what's the deal? Reading through this thread, I can't make sense of it. How is it a flaw for someone to seek emotional support from you? Isn't our duty as human beings to comfort and take care of each other? Seriously. Why would it be a problem at all to just be nice to the people who need you? Why would anyone feel upset about being expected to treat others respectfully instead of being invalidating or cruel to them, or abandoning them?

I'd like to be able to empathize with what it is like to be an ENTP, but after reading all of this, I am more confused about you than ever.
Because we don't process emotional stuff the same way you do. We're thinkers, we deal with it in a thinker manner.

I take care of my own emotions, and like god said, I expect others to more or less do the same. I can listen to rants if you want to rant. I can offer advice if you want advice. If you want to talk and try to work out your problems in a rational manner, I will help. I can be totally supportive and care in that sense and thats something that people have figure out about me. I express concern and care in a different way. If I'm listening to you and talking, helping you work things out, and possibly even sharing my own experiences, thats me caring.

What I personally get irritated about is that most people don't recognize that. There's this social expectation to coddle, to feel what they feel, to cry with them when people get super emotional. Thats not how I deal with emotion, I can't relate at all to it. Its not that I don't care, it just puts me in an awkward position. I don't do sympathy, I do empathy. If I truly care about somebody, then yes, I will bear through the awkwardness and hold them and comfort them.
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
I have this problem with people who i consider over emotional, i cant stay around them for long, and i feel like my head will explode. In-fact there is a guy in my class sitting beside me now, and most of the time i feel like killing him, he is always complaining about his problems, always feeling hurt when i tell him the truth, and always calling me in the night telling me how i hurt his feelings. I try to keep my disgust for him inside but sometimes it shows. im wondering how other ENTPs view those who we consider over emotional,or just to darn sensitive. :laughing:
See, what I don't understand is why you would continue to hurt him when he is very clear about how it makes him feel when you "tell him the truth," and why his having having problems and having feelings about those problems would make you want to kill him? Wouldn't it be easier and kinder to just care about his feelings, and not say things that hurt him? This is still confusing to me.

I actually can't deal with people who are too emotional or irrational about things. It's too overwhelming for me, so my first reaction to to block them out, somehow. My mom's gotten angry at me for that as I've just gotten up and left when she's had extreme emotional reactions to things.
So, it's a matter of empathizing too much then? You absorb the other person's feelings?

If I care enough to respond, I tell them all the same shit, "Being upset won't change anything/Life goes on/There are children being pumped full of drugs and fucked for money."
So, you invalidate them for having feelings because you see feelings as useless, impractical and distracting? I can understand wanting to put things in perspective, but it seems like a way of saying, "I don't care about your pain because other people somewhere in the world hurt more, and because how you feel doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things." From the perspective of someone who deals with stress by seeking support and comforting, it would seem like you just didn't care about them at all. What if a person has feelings, whether they want to or not, and can't do anything about that fact? What if the person is already trying to stop feeling sad, and that is the reason they are talking to you? If the feelings are there, does it really help a person deal with them or get over them any faster when you say something that essentially just means "your feelings are meaningless?"

For me, it depends on the person/situation. If I'm dealing with someone at work, I'll either tell them "I really think it's best to keep personal feelings out of the work place" (this is if I actually LIKE the coworker) or simply "I don't want to hear about it" (used on pretty much a daily basis to everyone else) and walk away.

When it comes to friends, I usually tell them that they're blowing things out of proportion (with a good explanation of why) and that really, it's not the end of the world and somehow it'll all work itself out. I'm known to be the voice of reason to most of my close friends so I often have some piece of advice to satisfy them, or make them dwell on it long enough to get them shut up for a while.
This is particularly difficult because one of my bestest besties is an ENFP (most emotional one I've ever met. she cries at the drop of a hat. no, really. this isn't an exaggeration some days) and many times she accuses me of being apathetic, cold, or uncaring. I accuse her of being too much of a stereotypical girl and I don't see how getting worked up over everything solves much of anything, etc etc etc.... We get into our tiff, then make up the next day when she sees that maybe she really did overreact yet again, and that, yes, indeed, my suggestion of smashing things with a baseball bat behind Pier 1 really does help soothe the mind. It gets exhausting, but I loves her enough to deal with it.
So, people should lie about their feelings just because they are at work? :dry: When you actually do care about the person, you invalidate them, but pretend to care in order to shut them up, then stereotype them for their gender and tell them their feelings don't matter. I'm kind of surprised she still speaks to you.

If it's a guy, either tell him to buck up if he's my friend, or walk away if it's someone random. If it's a girl...... comfort them >:D
So, you invalidate them by telling them to stop having feelings. ...unless you can use those feelings opportunistically, or believe in giving people exemptions because of traditional beliefs about gender roles? (not sure which you mean here) :dry:

ugh. i hate this.

usually I block it out completely. I've become very immune to this over the years, but I'll just leave if I can't take it anymore. If I were in a class situation, I'd probably just draw or write a lot to keep my mind off of it. Or a picture of me stabbing them.
Why would you want to stab them? I don't get it.

If it's someone I can't just walk away from (a boss, my histrionic ESFJ mum as a kid), I'll pull out the charm and pretend I actually give a shit. (Sincere "listening" nodding, sympathetic expression and lovebombing) It drains me so badly I end up falling asleep soon after, but it works. haha

Otherwise, I hang up on them or abruptly make an excuse to get the hell out of there.
So, the only times you care about other people's feelings are when you are faking? Do you ever care about people without having to pretend?

It's interesting that you talk about being drained by it. I'm wondering if the T/F distinction, and its relationship to energy levels, is similar to the E/I thing. I'll have to ponder the implications of that possibility further.

Thats a VERY good question..

Probably first sarcastic hints, avoidance and in the end obvious frustration. Then again, if you have people who share their sad stories with you and ignite your sympathy but later use their poorness/self-pitty as an advantage...well..that can become real unpleasant when you find yourself being pulled down by the quicksand.
The sarcasm, avoidance and obvious frustration... why? Because you are afraid of being emotionally damaged by people who are manipulative? And how can poorness/self-pity be used to someone's advantage? What kind of situation would favor someone who was experiencing such things? I'm doing my best to figure out why feelings upset you so much, but it's still mysterious to me.





I'm not an ENTP, but I want to just interject my own views.

The word "heartless" is still quite pejorative though, and it shows a limited perspective on this whole issue of emotionality, personal responsibility, personal boundaries, and being nice to others. Using words like that and couching everything you say in your own moral language (with zero acknowledgment of the existence of other value systems) is what gets other people pissed at you. Which then leads to great arguments.
I was asking if they were heartless, with the expectation that somebody would explain why they are not. I was not saying they definitely were. I know that if I were treated in the ways most of them treat people, I would probably come to the conclusion that they were heartless, but if they are not, I want to understand it better so I will know why they do the things that come across that way to me. I'm not sure what kind of value system would make it okay, unless they just thought all feelings were wrong, which would be pretty messed up, but I am sincerely doing my best to understand where they are coming from.


That idea is something that kind of pisses me off. You're basically saying that everybody should always bend over backwards for everybody else. You're not saying that people should do that if they want to. You're saying that everybody has a duty to do that. What ever happened to personal responsibility?
Yes, I am saying that people should be selfless. We are personally responsible for taking care of each other. How is that a bad thing?

It's impossible to please other people or be nice to them all the time. When you try to do that, other people just take advantage of you. If you don't make your needs known, and if you're not willing to piss off or offend other people sometimes, they'll just step all over you. They won't respect your needs, and you'll be constantly trying to please other people while other people just keep taking and taking from you. There are other things that are as important, or more important, than being kind and respecting others. Like, respecting yourself.
Yes, it is impossible to be perfectly loving, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. If other people take advantage, they are at fault, but only if they know they are doing it. I agree that it is very important to make your own needs and boundaries known. I also feel that it is best to do so in the least hurtful way possible. There are things that are more important than making other people happy. For instance, giving an alcoholic a drink might make him happy, but a person who loves him would find other ways to be supportive without enabling anything destructive. This creates complications, because then we must individually determine what we consider destructive behaviors in others. I think a lot of conflicts stem from having different views of what is ideal and what is destructive. I understand that if you are draining your own resources without concern for your own needs, you will eventually end up being useless to others and to yourself. I'm not saying you should allow yourself to be overwhelmed in order to keep someone else from being. That is a personal choice, if you want to be self-sacrificing. Usually there are ways of creating compromises in which harm is minimized on all sides, as long as you are willing to communicate openly.

Also, as it just so happens, some people wouldn't think you were being nice to them unless if you agreed with everything that they said. But, what if I think somebody else's opinions/views are crazy? Do I have to acquiesce to everything they say, and not state my own views, just because it'll upset the other person? Is it really my fault that being myself upsets other people? That's their problem.
It depends on whether your opinions make you dangerous and unloving. Stating your own views can give the other person a chance to challenge them if they are truly destructive, but picking the best times to do so is important when attempting to avoid having a negative impact on the other person. I have found that when I react strongly to someone else's difference of opinions, it is always, without exception, over something that makes them a threat to me or to people I empathize with.

For example, let's say your opinion is that black people are inferior to white people and should still be slaves. If someone else is saying that people should not be treated badly because of racial differences, or is coming to you for comforting after she has been mistreated by a racist, and you disagree with her, it makes sense that the person would get upset, especially if she or any of her friends were black.

Anyhow, this is a complicated issue that we have discussed before without any resolution. I think maybe we just disagree at the core of it.

Some people just get annoyed or upset by anything and everything I would say, and being around them is like walking on eggshells. At some point, you just have to say, "Fuck it. I don't care if I piss you off or upset you. If I did what you wanted me to, if I was always trying to be nice to you, it would destroy me. You're not looking out for my best interests. You just want the whole world to baby and take care of you. I'm not going to let you take advantage of me. If you're upset by something I say, then don't throw it on me as though I have a moral duty to not make you feel anything painful. It's not my fault that being myself causes you so much pain, and I'm not going to distort, destroy, and handicap myself. I have to flourish and be whatever I am, because that's what makes me happy. Why do you think your happiness or your suffering is somehow more important than mine, or everybody else's? Did you consider that other people have needs of their own? That the whole world doesn't revolve around you? That people who have decent self-esteem and respect themselves aren't going to efface themselves just to avoid upsetting you?"
I understand that respecting other people's sensitivity is not always an easy task, but I still consider it a responsibility we all have to each other. You don't have to do it perfectly all of the time. If someone is especially sensitive, of course you will make mistakes sometimes. If it is one-sided, where you are being emotionally damaged by the other person too, but the other person is not respecting your feelings equally, I definitely see why it would be an unhealthy situation.

But I get the sense that what you are saying to this hypothetical person is actually directed at me. To be fair, you weren't open about your feelings in time for me to decide to back off on my own. I didn't know what you needed in order to respect your boundaries. I didn't know they even existed until you were already angry with me. The issue of boundary overlap creates irreconcilable conflicts even when it is out in the open, but is even less likely to be resolved when it is hidden.

Since it seems to be directed at me, I will respond to it as though it were. Yes, I want the whole world to be the kind of place where we all take care of each other. It isn't taking advantage. If you say something that upsets me, and do it intentionally, then it is your fault when I am upset by it, just as hitting a person intentionally makes you responsible for their bruises. If it is accidental, we can discuss it, and I can forgive. (Then it is more like bumping into someone rather than attacking them.) I'm not trying to make you less authentic. A person can be authentic without being harsh. I feel that everyone's happiness and suffering are important, which is why emotional openness is so valuable. If other people have needs, they should express them so we can try to find solutions that are beneficial to everyone involved.

If you're expecting everybody else to desecrate who they are just to avoid upsetting you...I consider that disrespectful to them. You can't force people to be nice. "Cruelty" is your word for anybody who says anything that upsets you. "Invalidating" assumes that it is the responsibility of other people to validate everything that you are--if I don't agree with your opinions, your thoughts, do I really have to bury my own feelings and say that they're correct? Have you considered the concepts of personal freedom and autonomy? Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean that they don't exist or aren't important for lots of people. "Abandoning" assumes, again, that it's other people's responsibility to take care of you and go out of their way to avoid doing anything that causes you suffering.
I wouldn't want to force anyone to be nice. I would want them to know that it is important, and to be nice on their own, freely, so that it would be meaningful. "Invalidating" in this context simply means that which attempts to annihilate another person's sense of worth by being dismissive, condescending, prejudiced or insensitive. If we disagree, I am entitled to be upset when that disagreement makes you threatening. I understand that personal freedom is important. Unfortunately having free will makes us capable of being harmful. How we use our freedom is what gives it value. You are right; I do believe that we have a responsibility to take care of each other and to avoid causing each other intentional suffering. That is exactly what I mean by it.

Anybody who acceded and agreed to all of your demands would be destroyed in the end. It is out of self-respect, personal dignity, and a spirit of honesty and bold authenticity that people decide not to do all of these things that you think are "required". Just consider what you're doing to other people when you demand all of these things from them. And the effect that they have on them. And realize that if you value respect so much, it has to go both ways. Different people need different things and value different things--not everybody thinks like you do.
It is fine for other people to value other things as long as their doing so does not violate me in the process. Their rights end where mine begin, and vice versa. A person has a right to his own thoughts, but does not have a right to knowingly damage other people with those thoughts as they extend to the other person's senses, because doing so crosses the other person's boundaries. This is easier to keep track of where physical attacks are involved, because they are easy to quantify and to treat objectively. Even with as much ambiguity as is present when dealing with emotional pain and intangible boundaries, we must still at least make an effort, in order to not be total assholes. I don't go around punching people in the face, nor do I go around intentionally insulting them. If I ever come across as insulting, it is only in defense, when I feel violated. It is only an assertion of my own boundaries.

Part of being yourself is being willing to say, "No, I won't do what you want. And if it upsets you and you claim I'm being mean, immoral, invalidating, cruel, and all of that other shit ... I still won't do it. Because I don't want to do it. I don't believe in it. I won't let you control and manipulate me. I won't let you dictate who I am. I have to be myself--I like myself, even if you don't like me. My value as a person doesn't depend on you liking me. If you had it your way, you would just keep taking and taking from me until you had sucked me dry and turned me into an extension of yourself. You're like a black hole that needs to keep consuming and sucking things out of other people in order to survive. I won't let you drain me. Fuck you and your needs."
I feel as though you are misunderstanding what happened between us, if this is, as I suspect, directed at me personally. It isn't being controlling to say, " please stop doing something that is affecting me badly." We all have the right to say "no," or "stop" and to have that right respected. You didn't say "stop." I didn't know you were upset until it was already too late.

When we conversed, I was not openly accusing you of being mean, except to yourself when you would put yourself down for your own sensitivity and neediness. I was asserting my values in hopes that they would rub off on you, so that you would learn to appreciate yourself and to see that those qualities were not flaws. I wanted you to feel comfortable leaning on me whenever you felt like it. I was under the impression that you did not see my need as a flaw, since you seemed to enjoy spending time with me, and seemed to treasure me as a friend. I thought you felt good about being useful, and that you treasured my openness as much as I treasured yours. You smiled and laughed, sang and danced, shared your secrets and listened to mine. I felt close to you. I thought you were telling me all of your feelings when I asked how you were feeling.

But you secretly felt threatened by my sensitivity, felt restricted by it, and lied in order to avoid dealing with the inevitable conflict that would be created when your boundaries overlapped with mine, and we crossed each other just by existing. We never got the chance to try to work out any compromises.

I didn't know you thought I was a selfish taker, because I would have gladly done for you any of the things you were doing for me, if you had let me. I wanted to. In fact, I thought I was helping when we did our little experiments with our fears, or when you would talk to me about school, social situations, etc. I really thought we had achieved some kind of equality, and were both respecting each other's sensitivity, taking care of each other, sharing and listening in a way that made us feel less alone and more connected.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Promethea

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
To Snail:

Let me try to bring our NT perspective to a much clearer light.

Let's say we have a coworker who can get rather emotional fairly easily. Someone definitely more so than ourselves. Seeing them day to day, we know that they hit low and high points every now and then. Say one day this person comes to you upset because someone who quit said something bad about them. Someone who they barely interacted with. They are upset and you are like "so what? life goes on!" Why is that?

1. We know that the other person's opinion holds no real weight. We know who our coworker is better than some douche that quit and we believe that those closest to them are the ones that count.

2. We know you'll be fine in two days. You'll never see the person again and YOUR life goes on. Our mind is already looking down the road into the future. We also know that you have hit these type of snags before and seen you jump right back. Those our actually strengths that we posses: our ability to see patterns (including behavioral ones) and seeing into the future. It makes us natural optimists and is why we aren't emotionally bothered that easily. We know that "this too shall pass".

3. Are you getting divorced? Lost your job? Shit! That's big! We'll definitely lend a sympathetic ear and a helping hand. I'll personally involve myself to make you feel better. We know these are things that aren't gone by Friday and need some attention. It's the smaller things we don't care about. We see them come and go fairly quickly.

That's just one example out of thousands that we see everyday. We see it come and go and know people turn out ok. We're big picture thinkers. We know the end result and see you turning out ok. Because of this we don't like to be bothered and have our time wasted by small drama when there are other, bigger things to be happy about.
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
To Snail:

Let me try to bring our NT perspective to a much clearer light.

Let's say we have a coworker who can get rather emotional fairly easily. Someone definitely more so than ourselves. Seeing them day to day, we know that they hit low and high points every now and then. Say one day this person comes to you upset because someone who quit said something bad about them. Someone who they barely interacted with. They are upset and you are like "so what? life goes on!" Why is that?

1. We know that the other person's opinion holds no real weight. We know who our coworker is better than some douche that quit and we believe that those closest to them are the ones that count.

2. We know you'll be fine in two days. You'll never see the person again and YOUR life goes on. Our mind is already looking down the road into the future. We also know that you have hit these type of snags before and seen you jump right back. Those our actually strengths that we posses: our ability to see patterns (including behavioral ones) and seeing into the future. It makes us natural optimists and is why we aren't emotionally bothered that easily. We know that "this too shall pass".

3. Are you getting divorced? Lost your job? Shit! That's big! We'll definitely lend a sympathetic ear and a helping hand. I'll personally involve myself to make you feel better. We know these are things that aren't gone by Friday and need some attention. It's the smaller things we don't care about. We see them come and go fairly quickly.

That's just one example out of thousands that we see everyday. We see it come and go and know people turn out ok. We're big picture thinkers. We know the end result and see you turning out ok. Because of this we don't like to be bothered and have our time wasted by small drama when there are other, bigger things to be happy about.
Okay, I guess that makes sense, sort of, but still, even if the person were only crying over a papercut, if you had an analgesic that would make it less painful, would you really decide to withhold it just because, in the big picture, papercuts heal quickly?

Also, what if you guess wrong about what should be a fast-healing, insignificant wound to the other person? What if, by trivializing it, you add to it just enough to make it grow into something bigger and more permanent?
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top