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MOTM May 2011
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Ne is see something and understand it, drawing conclusions that don't always have roots in observable data. Ne allows you to correlate seemingly random pieces of information from the outside world into a whole that makes sense--connecting the dots, as it were, and extrapolating data to determine where the missing dots should reside.

It is what allows you to see someone that is happy, upset, crying, whatever, and be able to determine why they feel the way they do, without any real foreknowledge or hard data to back it up. That is why it is a bit uncomfortable for ISTJs--we are hard wired to seek out data for comparison to correctly perceive a situation.

A good test of your Ne is to watch a film in a foreign language (without captions), and to try to follow the plot by observing body language, attitudes, etc.

In an ISTJ, we tend to use Ne more to understand unstated motives concerning what someone is saying or thinking. What we might call "observing what makes people tick."
 

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What does Ne do again?
Exactly.

They don't use Ne, Ne is their inferior function.
They don't understand it, in fact they are disturbed by others who use it.
 
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Hm. I suppose I don't have a full understanding of what exactly Ne is but I now understand that it means extroverted iNtuition. From the description that Niss gave nothing comes to mind of where I use my Ne.
 

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Exactly.

They don't use Ne, Ne is their inferior function.
They don't understand it, in fact they are disturbed by others who use it.
care to give an example in which we are disturbed by others who do it?

In an ISTJ, we tend to use Ne more to understand unstated motives concerning what someone is saying or thinking. What we might call "observing what makes people tick."
I can agree with this, and do this quite often.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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Exactly.

They don't use Ne, Ne is their inferior function.
They don't understand it, in fact they are disturbed by others who use it.
Ne is our inferior function, therefore it is our least favored and requires the most energy to use. However, to say that we do not use our inferior function is incorrect. All types use all of their functions at various times.

Nor are we "disturbed" by those that use our inferior function. ISTJs tend to have a natural attraction to ENFPs, but not so much to ENTPs--both of which have a dominant Ne function.
 
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In an ISTJ, we tend to use Ne more to understand unstated motives concerning what someone is saying or thinking. What we might call "observing what makes people tick."
Um no.

Rather than argue about this though I'll point out some references.

"Extraverted Intuition
The Ne function of an ISTJ does not serve her very well. It needs a lot of help. She was surprised, for example, to find that someone she had talked with only by phone had red hair, because she "didn't usually like" people with red hair! This inferior Ne seems to be a major source of, and a natural breeding ground for, stereotypes. Failure of the banking system is but one bogeyman which arises from the fear which feeds on the ISTJ's mistrust of real world possibilities. The shadow inhabiting the inferior Ne strikes at the precious forms and standards in the heart of the dominant Si function."
ISTJ Profile

or as sociionics puts it:

"Ne: The fourth function of the ISTj Ne, by which the essence of ideas arrive and insights into their development arise. Since the ISTj type thrives in a world of concrete and non-abstract structures, it may be rendered difficult for this type to collect multiple perspectives, concepts, ideas, and beliefs for purposes of consideration. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include an tendency to misjudge the true potential in people, stubborn misguided stereotypes, sudden jumping to biased conclusions without rhyme, thought, reason, or explanation, misunderstanding and forming unnecessarily negative views towards the beliefs and intentions of others, inability to consider new methods and ways of doing things, lack of originality, and an impatience with disadvantage. "

http://personalitycafe.com/istj-art...description-best-istj-guide-ever-written.html


Ne Makes ISTJ's uncomfortable and will generally be viewed of as flat out wrong.
ISTJ's will almost ALWAYS midjudge Ne dominant types.

Anyone who tells you different simple has no clue what they are talking about.

BTW you don't use functions, you ARE your functions.
 

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Ne is our inferior function, therefore it is our least favored and requires the most energy to use. However, to say that we do not use our inferior function is incorrect. All types use all of their functions at various times.
The functions use is outside of our control, but our inferior function is the one we will always distrust.

Nor are we "disturbed" by those that use our inferior function. ISTJs tend to have a natural attraction to ENFPs, but not so much to ENTPs--both of which have a dominant Ne function.
Attraction doesn't mean much of anything.
People will be attracted to people who's dominant functions matches their inferior function but they are unlikely to be able to have deep connections due to the fact that neither type truly gets the motivation of the other type.

They might think they do, but they don't.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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Um no.


BTW you don't use functions, you ARE your functions.
Um, yes. And I am aware of the fact that one doesn't "use" the functions--it is simpler to describe them in this medium as being "used."

We are discussing MBTI--not socionomics.

Others that use Ne do not make us uncomfortable. Really, this is crazy--you, who have proven yourself so clueless about ISTJ motivations repeatedly, attempting to tell us what we like and dislike.

Dude, I am an ISTJ and I know what I like/dislike.
 

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Um, yes. And I am aware of the fact that one doesn't "use" the functions--it is simpler to describe them in this medium as being "used."

We are discussing MBTI--not socionomics.

Others that use Ne do not make us uncomfortable. Really, this is crazy--you, who have proven yourself so clueless about ISTJ motivations repeatedly, attempting to tell us what we like and dislike.

Dude, I am an ISTJ and I know what I like/dislike.
Sure you do.
 

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MOTM May 2011
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The functions use is outside of our control, but our inferior function is the one we will always distrust.
The functions are fluid and interact with each other in a complex manner. All types do "use" all of their functions in various interactions with their world--your type indicates your order of preference.


Attraction doesn't mean much of anything.
People will be attracted to people who's dominant functions matches their inferior function but they are unlikely to be able to have deep connections due to the fact that neither type truly gets the motivation of the other type.

They might think they do, but they don't.
Bogus. I am married to an ENFP. Opposites do attract and deep connections are formed.

It appears to me that you are using MBTI to pigeon-hole people into various compartments, not realizing that people don't fit neatly into boxes. MBTI is simply a preference indicator. We can operate out of any function we deem necessary--some just take more work than others.
 
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MOTM May 2011
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Sure you do.
Get a grip man. You really know so little about what motivates an ISTJ, yet you want to tell us how we think/are/function.

I wouldn't begin to tell you what motivates an ENTP because I am not an ENTP. Therefore, I can only share what I have observed about ENTPs. Those are my perceptions. Perceptions which are influenced by my filters and life experiences. So for me to tell you that you are/aren't a certain way would be asinine--just as it is for you to attempt to tell me what my motivations are as an ISTJ.

So really, it doesn't matter what your preconceived ideas are concerning ISTJs. We are who we are, and all of your silly notions are just that--silly notions.
 

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You may have the last word.
 

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It appears to me that you are using MBTI to pigeon-hole people into various compartments, not realizing that people don't fit neatly into boxes. MBTI is simply a preference indicator. We can operate out of any function we deem necessary--some just take more work than others.
Thats certainly the most telling line or the entire conversation. He views all ISTJ's as the stubborn old men who won't give up his old ways with the assumption that we are all rigid, probably has a personal experience to reinforce this perception driving him to only talk about the negatives. ISTJ's do learn, and all humans are flexible to the extent that they're aware of and are willing to allow themselves to be. It's good to know when a person is closed minded but that shouldn't be your presumption going into a type.
 

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I'll be pretty honest, it is HARD for me to deal with this function. But I can use it, and have been more often in order to keep my sanity, since I don't always agree with irrational motives for doing things.

I am in a serious relationship with an ENFP and that is one of the things that has led to me using Ne. I get frustrated when someone doesn't live up to my expectations and he steps in to help me think about the situation a little more carefully - why the person might be doing this, how they might not understand how it affects others, etc.
 

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Bogus. I am married to an ENFP. Opposites do attract and deep connections are formed.

It appears to me that you are using MBTI to pigeon-hole people into various compartments, not realizing that people don't fit neatly into boxes. MBTI is simply a preference indicator. We can operate out of any function we deem necessary--some just take more work than others.
I have lived under the tyrannical reign of an ISTJ and for some insane reason I'm attracted to ISTJ females.
The stubborness, groupthink, and inability to see others motives are not some MBTI thing I'm holding onto, I only attach it to MBTI because it's the only common demoninator in our ways of thinking.
Were I to just start talking about personal experience then i would be acussed of having something against ISTJ's due to personal experience. This type has a prediliction towards picking out the motives in others that reinforces their way of thinking. I could say I like ISTJ's till I'm blue in the face and most of you still would not believe me. I just don't like your control freak tendencies.

on to your deep connection bit.

I have loved and been loved by ISTJ's that doesn't mean the connection is based on true understanding.
In fact some types bond on mutual misunderstandings :laughing:

The whole thing is preposteruosly funny, it's like God woke up drunk one day and decided to screw us all.
 

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