How Does an ENTJ Pursue a Person....?
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This is a very situational question with so many different factors involved. Age, financial position, maturity, motives all play different roles in how different every response will be. It might be impossible to give you a helpful answer since we will approach things differently, even as ENTJ's.
Troisi hit the nail on the head.
Personally, I find that it boils down to insecurities/securities at the most basic level for ANYONE.
However, if I were male, I think I would like to do the chasing. Working hard for something and then getting it makes it so much more satisfying.
Personally, I find that it boils down to insecurities/securities at the most basic level for ANYONE.
However, if I were male, I think I would like to do the chasing. Working hard for something and then getting it makes it so much more satisfying.
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Te desire for achievement, eh? I can relate, but I don't think I'd want my relationships to work that way. But this isn't about me, is it? They don't want a pushover. They can make one of those any day. I imagine if they have anything more than lust (not so much a dig on ENTJs as it is a dig on our culture) They probably will be drawn to something in them, a ..strength perhaps?
I agree. Something strong, different, rare. I think if you could combine that with delicate and cultured, you'd have an irresistible combination.
As a female...just replace delicate with masculine. :happy:
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It's my experience that being too aggressive can be a bit overwhelming for some people, thus scaring them off.
To which I then think, what a pussy? Perhaps it's best they did get scared off.
Also, not being forward is quite irritating because then things are left up in the air, also annoying.
"Do they like me? Let's analyze this for 20 hours" etc
I dislike games.
The best approach is to just go with the flow. I dont put limitations on things, I try and use intuition to see how things are unfolding.
To which I then think, what a pussy? Perhaps it's best they did get scared off.
Also, not being forward is quite irritating because then things are left up in the air, also annoying.
"Do they like me? Let's analyze this for 20 hours" etc
I dislike games.
The best approach is to just go with the flow. I dont put limitations on things, I try and use intuition to see how things are unfolding.
Poorly. I personally don't do peacocking, and pointless banter is just distracting.
To paraphrase Daniel Plainview: "Too much confusion, thank you for your time."
hahaha not me!
Maybe there are some ENTJ Lotharios out there. But asking this question to a nerd like me is like asking if Bill Gates is a sex symbol.
I'm bad at it, so I can't provide quality advice.
Mostly I just talk to them and hope to have a deep, personal conversation. I throw in a few compliments (I really like your shirt, it matches your eyes) to let them know I'm interested.
I mostly rely on my looks and a personal connection to seal the deal haha. Not too good at being a hunter. I'm more of a let them come to me kinda guy.
Mostly I just talk to them and hope to have a deep, personal conversation. I throw in a few compliments (I really like your shirt, it matches your eyes) to let them know I'm interested.
I mostly rely on my looks and a personal connection to seal the deal haha. Not too good at being a hunter. I'm more of a let them come to me kinda guy.
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I normally do the pursuing, but don't flirt. I'm sure that doesn't make sense but that's the way it is.
I go through these stages, I noticed,
- Know
- Get to know (Investigate. Their views, plans for the future, independence, apparent compatibility, attitude in solving crises.. etc)
- Decide whether it's worth pursuing or not. Or often in my case, whether it's should be cut down or let it grow.
With the note that if it doesn't seem to worth it at any point, like, he's not interested or I found that his friends/family are the sort of people I'd rather not hang out with (and he's the sort of person that can't cut people off/ keep making excuses for them), the op can be terminated at any time. It's a bit impersonal, I suppose, but it's not really that dry (I enjoy this investigating business and if a relationship is not viable, why not a friendship?), and until the 2nd stage (Investigation) is done I usually keep my emotional attachment/ interest in check.
I'm not into jumping through hoops for a romantic relationship, there's a point where I say "You know, it's not worth it." and leave the person and their games. 'Tirelessly' isn't likely, playing games with an ENTJ = risk of losing their interest altogether.
Of course, when it's not a 'relationship' but instead a 'game', it could be viewed as a campaign of conquest. I wouldn't care if they're suitable/ maximum happiness could be reached or not, because I don't intend to stay around.
Also it's possible that a person is just unstable/ dependent/ obsessive, but I don't think it's limited any particular MBTI type.
Btw, I do flirt. I like people and I see flirting as a sort of being nice. I keep social-flirting light. There's a chance someone would run with it and get all attached, but I'd like to think I'm pretty good at deflecting further, unwanted advances.
I get very goal oriented and I tend to be aggressive in an initiative kind of way; being too aggressive can be bad.
First layout my objective: long-term; short-term; one-night; undecided
Then set goals: depending on the objective (i.e. - long-term goal would be develop a relationship and get to know her first vs. one-night goal would be to get her back to my place)
Assess the situation and determine the probability of success (get information like relationship status, etc. then feel it out during the first encounter)
Next determine the best course of action in order to achieve goals (i.e. - long term: a combination of group encounters and one-on-one encounters vs. one-night: establish my worth, create sexual tension, keep her friends happy and establish trust with them..)
Nurture the relationship in order to achieve desired results. If objective changes, priorities change.
Honestly as a guy, this is pretty standard.. We make these decisions in split-seconds and our approach will be closely related to whether we are extroverted or introverted more than anything else. As an extrovert, I take initiative; as an ENTJ it is my job to make you like me, instead of you making the choice. If I fail to gain your interest, its my fault. Every single encounter with someone that I desire is an opportunity to make an impression, nurture the relationship, or establish worth. So everything I do in the presence of someone I desire, is deliberate.
First layout my objective: long-term; short-term; one-night; undecided
Then set goals: depending on the objective (i.e. - long-term goal would be develop a relationship and get to know her first vs. one-night goal would be to get her back to my place)
Assess the situation and determine the probability of success (get information like relationship status, etc. then feel it out during the first encounter)
Next determine the best course of action in order to achieve goals (i.e. - long term: a combination of group encounters and one-on-one encounters vs. one-night: establish my worth, create sexual tension, keep her friends happy and establish trust with them..)
Nurture the relationship in order to achieve desired results. If objective changes, priorities change.
Honestly as a guy, this is pretty standard.. We make these decisions in split-seconds and our approach will be closely related to whether we are extroverted or introverted more than anything else. As an extrovert, I take initiative; as an ENTJ it is my job to make you like me, instead of you making the choice. If I fail to gain your interest, its my fault. Every single encounter with someone that I desire is an opportunity to make an impression, nurture the relationship, or establish worth. So everything I do in the presence of someone I desire, is deliberate.
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But speaking personally - probably for infj's generally - the way to my heart is trusting me enough to show your vulnerability, being authentic and truly yourself. Not trying so hard to show your value, but being happy enough in your own skin to let go of the masks of strength and complete self-belief. I wouldn't be present to you if I hadn't already decided you were worth the time and investment...
I have been told that many women decide whether a man is of interest within the first 5 seconds or something, whether it is a visual thing or something else, I dont know. For me, its less of a conscious decision to do thethings I mentioned, and I won't show any vulnerability until I know that I can trust you. For me, vulnerability may not be a weakness, but it does not play a role in the pursuit portion of dating. Showing sensitivity can be appropriate, however. Not all pursuits happen in a bar or club setting and therefor different personality traits will take the lead accordingly.
There is something interesting, though. You said that you make the decision on whether I would be worth the time. I think the ENTJ in me believes that your decision is something I am responsible for and you won't choose to further the relationship if I don't give you good enough reasons. But that being said, what about a person would make you decide he is worth the time and investment? Showing vulnerability/sensitivity, authenticity, not trying too hard. But I also believe that as a woman, you would respond to confidence, intelligence, maturity, financial security, etc. It doesn't always have to be the 6-pack alpha male approach.
But what if my complete self-belief and strength is authentic and I don't have to try hard for you to notice it? I think there is a difference between establishing worth with confidence and then trying hard to impress. I completely agree that putting on a show for someone is pointless; they will either see through it or you will not enjoy the person you feel you have to be.
Worth means different things to different people; in most cases during a nice conversation with someone they might learn about my education, career, relationships, experiences, views, and goals. That could easily establish worth. In a different situation, being funny, charismatic, and an alpha male might be the initial trigger. I do tend to be more alpha in a group setting, however I don't need to try. I don't consider loud, obnoxious, MTV beach house frat boys to be alpha's.
I think the reason why I feel the need to have those goals is because I look for those things in others. I am not saying I need to see a resume or that I plan on giving one, but I do feel that we all naturally try to show ourselves in the best light possible. And actually, online dating is no different than a career website; post your profile/resume and look for a good fit. We all have certain requirements, and I think that because my requirements are of a logical type, I feel others must also follow the same or similar rationale.
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Definitely my experience. Instantaneous gut feeling sparks intuition. Immediately directed to "friend full stop" compartment or, in the rare case of a spark, "friend dot dot dot" I think it's more "presence" than looks in themself.
Yes, I take it back, at the pursuit stage it makes sense to wait until you're sure someone's trustworthy. just is quite important early on in the next phase.
Wow, that is a fascinating insight! It explains a lot, thank you! :mellow:
Of course, yes, presence, strength of character, vision, humour, intellect, living within their means, playfulness, innovative and creative thinking, ability to understand and fix machines as well as authenticity, being at ease with themselves. i guess its just the thought process is different...well, it's not really a thought process - first a gut feeling and then I observe to back the feeling up with hard facts.
Agreed...that's why I added the word "complete" in there - I have found ENTJ's to have a natural confidence which is very appealing, however allied with that high expectations (even perfectionist tendencies) of themselves...and some level of self doubt when they haven't yet achieved them. I feel very trusted when anyone, but esp NT's, expresses self doubt (and is therefore vulnerable and authentic) to me...and it definitely opens the door to the "tender trap!" :blushed:
No, a quiet confidence is far more appealing. INTJ's have that too...
Aargh, I hear you, but the romantic idealist within me is wanting to believe in "magic" and "meant to be's" :wink: you are right tho; just let me keep my rose-tinted spectacles on! :laughing:
Good word choice.. Presence. I like it!Definitely my experience. Instantaneous gut feeling sparks intuition. Immediately directed to "friend full stop" compartment or, in the rare case of a spark, "friend dot dot dot" I think it's more "presence" than looks in themself.
I think that might be on of the differences. I call it a thought process where you call it a gut feeling. Its really the same thing and might even occur in the same way mentally. For you perhaps, the thought process produces a feeling that you then justify by observing . For me, the feelings provoke my thought process which attempts to justify my intuition.
I think we just have different orders and refer to our thinking in different terms.
You(my guess, could be wrong) - Meet person, have an initial emotional response [gut feeling], initiate/terminate relationship, attempt to collect information to explain/justify the gut feeling, develop rational reasoning for future decisions dealing with person.
Me - Meet person, have initial emotional response, use intuition to decide whether to pursue, begin rational decision making process, start collecting information, analyze information , develop feelings (positive or negative) regarding person, initiate/terminate relationship.
That's a tough one for me. I can admit that I have fears, but I don't think I can admit that I am unsure if I possess the ability to accomplish something. I would have to have the utmost trust and be involved in a long-term relationship before being able to say out loud, that "I don't know if I have what it takes." Just seeing the words makes me think that someone who does say those words out loud is just fishing for self-esteem boosting compliments. I just have a hard time with self-doubt.
Nice observation on self-image and doubt!
Truth is, and I have seen it written about ENTJ's, I am a romantic at heart. I am very passionate and caring, but for me those things are useless if a relationship is not supported with logic, communication, responsibility, and sacrifice. Its the classic conflict between putting yourself out there, or shielding yourself from pain. I have to admit, I don't believe in soul mates the way most people understand it: two people who were meant to be together before meeting each other. But I do believe that two people can connect and build a relationship where their souls are mated for life.
We go on a quest to shape the world.
Clannad (Male Protagonist)
ToraDora (Female Protagonist)
As both end up with their ISFJ (dual). Watch the havoc unfold as INFJ (Semi Dual) shy introverts blush and attempt to gain their approval but never make it, as ENFJ (Look alike) try to control the situation and make the INFJ-ENTJ happen, but secretly want the ENTJ themselves. Watch as the ENTJ hangs out with an ENFP (comedic relief). At some point an ISTJ attempts to tend and take care of the ENTJ, but the ENTJ is on a mission to do something and will shake heaven and earth to accomplish it. This "thing" is the comfort of their ISFJ. Not necessarily for love or infatuation. Because Duality relations do not suffer from angsty "teen love" or indeed any relationship lovey-dovey mishaps, rather it is a mature relationship that tends to defy social norms. "Aren't you guys dating, shouldn't you be holding hands/calling each other by first names?"
Beware, knowing socionics ruins the plot of every Anime/Movie because you can instantly recognize which pairs are dualities and whether they know it or not the authors of such works are obviously mimicking real life scenarios they themselves experienced. They saw a duality and the special qualities therein and decided to structure characters after this manner, even pitting against them more enticing relationships (Ego relationship is the easiest to start because both partners are crazy about each other, but dualities have a different level all together)
If you don't like Anime then you're successful and have families and wouldn't be wasting time on an ENTJ forum.
Clannad (Male Protagonist)
ToraDora (Female Protagonist)
As both end up with their ISFJ (dual). Watch the havoc unfold as INFJ (Semi Dual) shy introverts blush and attempt to gain their approval but never make it, as ENFJ (Look alike) try to control the situation and make the INFJ-ENTJ happen, but secretly want the ENTJ themselves. Watch as the ENTJ hangs out with an ENFP (comedic relief). At some point an ISTJ attempts to tend and take care of the ENTJ, but the ENTJ is on a mission to do something and will shake heaven and earth to accomplish it. This "thing" is the comfort of their ISFJ. Not necessarily for love or infatuation. Because Duality relations do not suffer from angsty "teen love" or indeed any relationship lovey-dovey mishaps, rather it is a mature relationship that tends to defy social norms. "Aren't you guys dating, shouldn't you be holding hands/calling each other by first names?"
Beware, knowing socionics ruins the plot of every Anime/Movie because you can instantly recognize which pairs are dualities and whether they know it or not the authors of such works are obviously mimicking real life scenarios they themselves experienced. They saw a duality and the special qualities therein and decided to structure characters after this manner, even pitting against them more enticing relationships (Ego relationship is the easiest to start because both partners are crazy about each other, but dualities have a different level all together)
If you don't like Anime then you're successful and have families and wouldn't be wasting time on an ENTJ forum.
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ooh...i like the analysis - yeah that sounds about right. as a more immature infj, the process stopped at the initiate/terminate relationship stage...afterwhich i'd just contort and adapt around any problems/issues. *rolls eyes* i think there's one additional stage tho - after the initial emotional response, I start imagining and daydreaming about all the future possibilities - if i can't visualize myself having a family and growing old with that person, I won't pursue things.
They say INFJ-ENTJ's are tribesmen, that is "have very different interests, but share a sense of culture" I think that similar vision and values is massively important.
Yeah, I like that. I'd say there are probably lots of "ones" - not so many for intutives since we're rarer, but enough - the building of the relationship [and commitment to that] is the important bit.
I am an affectionate and passionate person, I know what I want and I know how to get it. When it comes to women, I am only interested in those that seem to have a reciprocal interest - I don't chase, but I will dance. And since I am generally aware of what is going on around me, I know and she knows when we run into each other - I believe in magic by choice, though I know it is just the right combination of neurotransmitters at the right time. Aggressively passionate people will find each other.
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