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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Note: long story follows, with questions at the end. Feel free to skip the personal story if it's not your thing. The questions should make sense, with or without the background.

I'm a sexual 4 with a 5 wing. He is a sexual 5 with a 4 wing. We were very close for over a year- had made some very long term plans with each-other, regarding business, family etc. He started to withdraw and I interpreted it as him not really caring about me. When he asked me for favours, I began to feel as if he was using me. I started to withdraw and began to gently call him out on his behaviour as this was what he did with me, and I valued it. I was thinking about dropping him, against how I felt about him, because I didn't want to be used. Before I could do this, he dropped me. Completely stopped talking to me for 3 weeks. Of course, this only confirmed my interpretation of him, so I cut him all the way out of my life (blocked him on social networking sites etc.) because I didn't want the reminder of someone I loved so deeply not loving me back at all. He sent me a really bitter "never speak to me again" break-up letter. Long story short, it was hot and intense and then it exploded.

It has been nearly a year since the falling out. I have thought about him every day. Not in that pathetic pining way, but in the "he would have said this about that, and I'm glad I have that memory of him" kind of way. I did some research and found that we may have, in fact, misinterpreted one another. In May, I sent him a link to an article I knew he would love. He sent me a message back saying "if you are reaching out, here is my cell #). Our first contact didn't go so well. I asked him if he was interested or just curious, and when he replied "a little bit of both" I was still so hurt from before that I ended up saying "well, if you missed me, just say so. If you're curious, you're welcome to google me." I know. Not my best moment. I sent him an email saying we should make a fresh start and acknowledging that first contact didn't go so well. He agreed. Sent me this huge letter telling me all about his past year.

I did not respond in kind. I said I wanted to see him in person and tell him about my year over coffee. Over the past two months, he has responded to the texts in which I ask him for professional opinion etc. but he never responds when I ask him to coffee. I have given up on seeing him in person for now. He takes a couple of days to respond to my texts, and never responds to the emails I send him with links to cool things I think he'd like. I feel like I am doing all of the work. But last week, he sent me back a poem of mine that I had sent him, and he had handwritten it using the original alphabet he created and shared with me when we were friends. This felt so intimate to me, somehow. I am in the process now, of writing a letter to him using his alphabet, and telling him what has happened in the past year in my life. I have decided that I want to share this with him, even if he chooses not to see me.

So, long story I know, but I feel like I've tried everything and am not making much progress. My questions are these:

How can someone win back a 5 most effectively/efficiently?
How can someone ruin their chances of winning back a 5?
What do 5s most fear in letting someone back in, and how can I counteract this?
Do you have any other suggestions?
 

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This guy sounds pretty disrespectful and like he's making you do all the work. Maybe you should be asking how he can win you back because it doesn't sound like he's done much either than occasionally reach out in text when you've already stated you want to meet in person. This seems more like wants to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't give you a straight answer about still being interested; he originally told you not to contact him and then when you did gave you his number; you were clear you wanted to meet in person and he has avoided that; he only reaches out when it suits him.

I don't think there's any sure fire way to win someone back, type 5 or otherwise - especially having so few details about why you actually broke up.

If you push him too hard he probably will withdraw more, but that said, you also need to have your needs met and his withdrawing isn't going to do that for you.

There's likely some trust issues going on, or perhaps he doesn't trust his own feelings. I like to have very open and honest discussions, so if it was me, I would want you to tell me more or less what you've written here, and be clear about what you want and need and your expectations. If he can't give you that, there's your answer.

I'll also add that I usually take days to respond to texts or emails, and I pretty much never respond to emails with a link someone thought I may be interested in. I don't see the point in responding to emails like that most of the time.
 

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How can someone win back a 5 most effectively/efficiently?
In the short-run, play to my greed, love language and know how to make it worth while for me to direct my energy toward you. The vice of a 5 is greed and this is worth using to your advantage here. In a way, you know what motivates some of us, now use that knowledge to pull us back into your orbit.

How can someone ruin their chances of winning back a 5?
The chances can be ruined quickly if the energy expended to have the relationship isn't properly rewarded. I'll grant this is selfish though there is also the fine line of not sucking up too much as that can backfire. The head butting that you have would be one example of that energy point. Do you consider what kind of time, thought and energy cost we have, even to meet for coffee?

What do 5s most fear in letting someone back in, and how can I counteract this?
"The world expects too much or gives too little," is a belief among 5s that would be what you want to avoid triggering. You counteract this by finding a way to acknowledge our insights among other things.

Do you have any other suggestions?
You're asking him to meet over coffee and discuss the relationship, right? Like, that is all the details you are giving him? That could be part of an issue here. While there may be something about being a guy here, I would just have an issue about going to discuss a relationship without seeing some other upside in this equation. I'd suggest having some other kind of olive branch here to help bring peace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
[/QUOTE]You're asking him to meet over coffee and discuss the relationship, right? Like, that is all the details you are giving him? That could be part of an issue here. While there may be something about being a guy here, I would just have an issue about going to discuss a relationship without seeing some other upside in this equation. I'd suggest having some other kind of olive branch here to help bring peace.[/QUOTE]

Thank-you for your suggestions. I will certainly try them out. I feel these are things I used to do with him, which I stopped doing once I felt him withdrawing. It's hard to get back into it now, with very little exposure to him. I find I'm getting good responses when I ask him his opinion on things. Also, he made the effort of re-writing my poem in his alphabet, so I'm hoping that is a tentatively positive sign. But, yeah, I figured the whole reconciliation did not get off to a great start in part due to the head butting you referred to. I was hurt, he was sceptical and unforthcoming, etc.

I stated explicitly to him that, were we to have coffee, I wasn't going to bring up the relationship. I really just want to get together because I want to see forward movement, and he's really stimulating in person. What other kind of olive branch might be more tolerable? I could pay him, lol ;) (just joking, of course)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This guy sounds pretty disrespectful and like he's making you do all the work. Maybe you should be asking how he can win you back because it doesn't sound like he's done much either than occasionally reach out in text when you've already stated you want to meet in person. This seems more like wants to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't give you a straight answer about still being interested; he originally told you not to contact him and then when you did gave you his number; you were clear you wanted to meet in person and he has avoided that; he only reaches out when it suits him.

I don't think there's any sure fire way to win someone back, type 5 or otherwise - especially having so few details about why you actually broke up.

If you push him too hard he probably will withdraw more, but that said, you also need to have your needs met and his withdrawing isn't going to do that for you.

There's likely some trust issues going on, or perhaps he doesn't trust his own feelings. I like to have very open and honest discussions, so if it was me, I would want you to tell me more or less what you've written here, and be clear about what you want and need and your expectations. If he can't give you that, there's your answer.

I'll also add that I usually take days to respond to texts or emails, and I pretty much never respond to emails with a link someone thought I may be interested in. I don't see the point in responding to emails like that most of the time.
sleepyhead, thank-you for your post. I am still mulling over your response, as there is a lot for me to think about. There were some complications in the relationship that lead me to believe he may not trust his own feelings, and I really want to be direct with him, as you've suggested, but I tried that about a month ago, and received no response. He's playing a game with me, I'm sure, and I believe you're right that I am doing all the work. I guess I am too analytical, because I'm thinking, "ok, he's playing with me here, but why?" Is it because he genuinely cared about me but is not willing to risk getting hurt, or is it because he is kind of a jerk? I tend to err on giving people the benefit of the doubt, but that can leave blind spots too.
 

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Suggestions for other olive branches:

1. The "tell me something I don't know but would like to know" idea - This is where you have some knowledge that you haven't passed along to him on some subject that could be useful for discussion. This is playing towards my curiosity on a specific subject rather than leaving things too vague. I can think of a course I have at the end of this week where there are various laws I'll learn their full names but I know there are 4 laws and 3 parts to relationships that while I just have the numbers and a bit of context, this is enough to whet my appetite. The key here is instead of making me think, "What am I going to discuss?" that I have part of this answered and I'll come to hear the full answer and question parts of it.

2. The "please back me up, I need someone to pick me up" idea - This is a bit trickier though the idea here is to have someone is a bit of a cheerleader. I do remember a year ago I had a phone call with someone that was where I was kind of low and needed to have someone that could help talk me down from the ledge but at the same time not let me bury myself in loathing and other evil things. This would be about encouragement and letting me strut my stuff. Ask me about things that interest me and I'll ramble on like nobody's business. The key here is to ask sincerely as well as maintain that expression that you want to be there listening to me rather than giving a look that makes me think, "I'm sucking the life out of you with the most boring topic known to mankind in all of history..." which has happened and tends to send me back into my shell.

3. The "play with me" idea - This could be the trickiest of all though if you have a common interest then this could be a great idea. The play here is more about discussing ideas and bouncing off various tweaks to the ideas. This can get my juices flowing as I'm tapping into what I know about this or that and putting things together in new ways. While this isn't for everyone to do, some people are quite good at having that deep intellectual conversation. Could be about saving the planet. Could be about how Detroit gets out of bankruptcy intact somehow. The topic isn't that relevant as much as it is that you know enough about it to challenge me on pieces of it and get into some new territory.

In a sense these all boil down to being rewarded for coming out and being present, which the latter is an important point. It is one thing for me to show up somewhere, but another to participate and really be there. The challenge here is in understanding me enough to show me that you care without me giving you all the answers. There is that piece of doing a bit of work on your own end to meet me on my level in a sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Suggestions for other olive branches:

1. The "tell me something I don't know but would like to know" idea - This is where you have some knowledge that you haven't passed along to him on some subject that could be useful for discussion. This is playing towards my curiosity on a specific subject rather than leaving things too vague. I can think of a course I have at the end of this week where there are various laws I'll learn their full names but I know there are 4 laws and 3 parts to relationships that while I just have the numbers and a bit of context, this is enough to whet my appetite. The key here is instead of making me think, "What am I going to discuss?" that I have part of this answered and I'll come to hear the full answer and question parts of it.

2. The "please back me up, I need someone to pick me up" idea - This is a bit trickier though the idea here is to have someone is a bit of a cheerleader. I do remember a year ago I had a phone call with someone that was where I was kind of low and needed to have someone that could help talk me down from the ledge but at the same time not let me bury myself in loathing and other evil things. This would be about encouragement and letting me strut my stuff. Ask me about things that interest me and I'll ramble on like nobody's business. The key here is to ask sincerely as well as maintain that expression that you want to be there listening to me rather than giving a look that makes me think, "I'm sucking the life out of you with the most boring topic known to mankind in all of history..." which has happened and tends to send me back into my shell.

3. The "play with me" idea - This could be the trickiest of all though if you have a common interest then this could be a great idea. The play here is more about discussing ideas and bouncing off various tweaks to the ideas. This can get my juices flowing as I'm tapping into what I know about this or that and putting things together in new ways. While this isn't for everyone to do, some people are quite good at having that deep intellectual conversation. Could be about saving the planet. Could be about how Detroit gets out of bankruptcy intact somehow. The topic isn't that relevant as much as it is that you know enough about it to challenge me on pieces of it and get into some new territory.

In a sense these all boil down to being rewarded for coming out and being present, which the latter is an important point. It is one thing for me to show up somewhere, but another to participate and really be there. The challenge here is in understanding me enough to show me that you care without me giving you all the answers. There is that piece of doing a bit of work on your own end to meet me on my level in a sense.[/QUOTE

This makes sense to me. I have been sending him interesting links tailored to his interests, but not really initiating conversation about them. I can see that my next step is to try engaging in the material with him the way I used to. Put forth theories. See if he bites. Thank-you for the thought you have put into this! I feel like I have a sense of how to move forward, at least for my part.
 

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actions are more important afer you lose a 5s trust. youve got to show up at their doorstep constantly and send gifts, even when they ignore the gifts... prove you love them...not just say sorry...
its hard for 5s to trust once you do something sneaky or outright evil to us.
 

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actions are more important afer you lose a 5s trust. youve got to show up at their doorstep constantly and send gifts, even when they ignore the gifts... prove you love them...not just say sorry...
its hard for 5s to trust once you do something sneaky or outright evil to us.
I would find that very intrusive. Sincere words are all I need - if I feel pressured or pushed by someone showing up or sending gifts, it will only make me retreat further and make me feel like the other person isn't paying attention to what I want. I've been in this situation before and made me become completely apathetic to the other person.

Individual preferences will vary, but if the 5 mentioned in the OP is already withdrawing at the suggestion of meeting in person, I would be wary of pushing too hard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would find that very intrusive. Sincere words are all I need - if I feel pressured or pushed by someone showing up or sending gifts, it will only make me retreat further and make me feel like the other person isn't paying attention to what I want. I've been in this situation before and made me become completely apathetic to the other person.

Individual preferences will vary, but if the 5 mentioned in the OP is already withdrawing at the suggestion of meeting in person, I would be wary of pushing too hard.
Yeah, I tried showing up, 3 months in, and it didn't go well, unfortunately. That would definitely work with me, but not him. I think he'd feel his boundaries were being crossed. I have asked him if I may send a letter and he has agreed. The letter is not relationship oriented, but talks about new things I've learned, theories I have that I would like to research, some of the things that I did during the past year. I wrote it in his alphabet. I thought about giving him gifts, but it didn't feel right to me, because it's too much like a bribe, I feel, and I haven't done anything wrong at all. I want to show that I'm willing to put in time and effort (his love language is quality time) but not that I'm going to try to buy him. Funny, I have a type 3 friend that I give gifts to when we've disagreed on something. Gift giving is her love language for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
actions are more important afer you lose a 5s trust. youve got to show up at their doorstep constantly and send gifts, even when they ignore the gifts... prove you love them...not just say sorry...
its hard for 5s to trust once you do something sneaky or outright evil to us.
I agree completely that actions are more important than words, but his boundaries are really tight right now, and I did try going to his house once, several months ago. It didn't end well. It's actually rather unfair to me, as I haven't done anything sneaky or evil at all. I wish I had something to apologize for, actually. It would make more sense to me as to how to proceed. In all honesty, sometimes I wonder if I should be trying this hard when he is not reciprocating, given how he treated me in the end...I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt...

I do continue to send interesting things, regardless of the lack of response. Thank-you for this suggestion.
 

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Would you like your spouse to change? | The 5 Love Languages® be a link about languages of apology that may be useful here. While you don't know what specifically caused the rift, depending on his language of apology it may be possible to resolve things by asking for forgiveness.

Another component here is how old are you and him? If you are both in your teenage years, then this could be different than if you are both 40 something. I'm 38 so anything aimed at me would be playing into being a bit of a mature adult where you may be dealing with a brat here that could be part of the issue.
 

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I agree completely that actions are more important than words, but his boundaries are really tight right now, and I did try going to his house once, several months ago. It didn't end well. It's actually rather unfair to me, as I haven't done anything sneaky or evil at all. I wish I had something to apologize for, actually. It would make more sense to me as to how to proceed. In all honesty, sometimes I wonder if I should be trying this hard when he is not reciprocating, given how he treated me in the end...I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt...

I do continue to send interesting things, regardless of the lack of response. Thank-you for this suggestion.
From what i understand about how you two fell out, it seems like he was also very hurt... so mutual distrust i'm assuming...and 5s keep their hurt feelings to themselves and may even put on a poker face to the person that hurt them.
i suppose persistence is key, and eventually he will open up again. i mean, being persistent for someones trust and loyalty is very rare and good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
From what i understand about how you two fell out, it seems like he was also very hurt... so mutual distrust i'm assuming...and 5s keep their hurt feelings to themselves and may even put on a poker face to the person that hurt them.
i suppose persistence is key, and eventually he will open up again. i mean, being persistent for someones trust and loyalty is very rare and good.
He must have been hurt, although it's still a mystery to me as to why. I have my theories, but that's all they are at this point. I was hurt also. I loved him completely. Still do. I am not much for poker faces, but I believe you are right about him. thank you for the encouragement! It helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Would you like your spouse to change? | The 5 Love Languages® be a link about languages of apology that may be useful here. While you don't know what specifically caused the rift, depending on his language of apology it may be possible to resolve things by asking for forgiveness.

Another component here is how old are you and him? If you are both in your teenage years, then this could be different than if you are both 40 something. I'm 38 so anything aimed at me would be playing into being a bit of a mature adult where you may be dealing with a brat here that could be part of the issue.
What a good idea! I actually have the 5 love languages as well as the 5 languages of apology, but I didn't think to apply it, for some reason. Thank you for the suggestion!

We are both in our mid-thirties. I am definitely interested in mature approaches, but I will say that a lot of emotional damage has been done to him, so that has impacted how he is handling this. What I'd really like is to be able to have a direct conversation that mutually confirms we care about each-other, made mistakes, and are now moving past it. I sense he is trying to stay in a position of power on this one, perhaps out of distrust or fear of complicated feelings. I would like for him to just say "I'm not ready to meet with you yet...here's what I need from you" so that I can better understand him (rather than him just not replying when I've asked in the past to meet for coffee). I don't really care about power, myself. I just want to reconcile.
 

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What I'd really like is to be able to have a direct conversation that mutually confirms we care about each-other, made mistakes, and are now moving past it. I sense he is trying to stay in a position of power on this one, perhaps out of distrust or fear of complicated feelings. I would like for him to just say "I'm not ready to meet with you yet...here's what I need from you" so that I can better understand him (rather than him just not replying when I've asked in the past to meet for coffee). I don't really care about power, myself. I just want to reconcile.
I don't see this as being about power as much as it is about protection. If he tells you the truth, he has nothing left in his secret stash that is hidden. Even in articulating what he needs from you would be a big step in terms of admitting what he needs that could be seen as quite dangerous as, "What if something bad happens in disclosing this?" could be a thought running through his mind. It may be worth figuring out a way to make the step smaller like, "I'd like to rebuild the trust we once had. What could I do to start to demonstrate that I am trustworthy?" may still be a bit bigger than he'd like but the scale is smaller than thinking about what would totally fix this right now.

He may well be a massive defense mode at the moment and thus reconciling requires getting him to bring down the wall, step in close so that you could have a real conversation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't see this as being about power as much as it is about protection. If he tells you the truth, he has nothing left in his secret stash that is hidden. Even in articulating what he needs from you would be a big step in terms of admitting what he needs that could be seen as quite dangerous as, "What if something bad happens in disclosing this?" could be a thought running through his mind. It may be worth figuring out a way to make the step smaller like, "I'd like to rebuild the trust we once had. What could I do to start to demonstrate that I am trustworthy?" may still be a bit bigger than he'd like but the scale is smaller than thinking about what would totally fix this right now.

He may well be a massive defense mode at the moment and thus reconciling requires getting him to bring down the wall, step in close so that you could have a real conversation.
Hmm...I hope that it's not about power. Your theory re: him wanting to keep his needs hidden is definitely in keeping with the 5 personality type, from what I've read, and I like it much better than the power one. Bringing down that wall seems like a daunting task, as I've been trying but failing, but I am about to try your earlier suggestions so hopefully that will help. This is hard, feeling like this matters so much to me, and wondering if it matters to him at all. Hard also, because I am tearing down the wall that protects me without any help from him while I work away at his wall. Yet, I would do it all again if it results in a real conversation. I think he's worth it.
 

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I read this thread and this sounds very familiar to something I am experiencing with a 5 currently. Similar situation: me, a 4, him a 5w6. We got to know each other at a time when he had less obligations that he has now, started a relationship that became intense very fast - this was a bit less than a year ago. Then things got complicated on more levels: I started to demand more of him (which was stressing him out), at the same time he had other obligations (family) that were stressing him (the whole story is much more complex). Long story short: he broke up with me in May and asked that we have no contact. I respected this (which was extremely hard for me) and after a couple of months of almost complete silence he started talking to me again and there was also some physical closeness again. During those few weeks I got the impression that he cared about me a lot and he also told me that he still loved me but that he was afraid that he couldn't give me what I wanted from him (in terms of relationship). After that we didn't see each other for the past 7 weeks because each of us was out of town for a while. I did not know what to expect after that and was surprised he wanted to see me now after we had been apart for so long.
We spent most of the time talking when we saw each other the other day and I got all kinds of conflicting messages from him: he wants to spend time with me but take things slowly and see where it goes, he doesn't know what he wants (not sure if he wants a relationship), he still loves me and is still attracted to me - at the same time he wouldn't allow any physical contact (there was a lot of intimacy when we were still a couple, so this was strange to me). He hates to analyze where we are (in terms of relationship), he doesn't want to make any plans about the future, he told me, he didn't think about me often while he was traveling but that now that he's back he'd like to spend time with me, he still has tons of other obligations and it seems to me like there's hardly any room for me. He told me he feels no desire for physical intimacy at the moment (that was a shock because we had always been so extremely close)....and again he said that he is afraid of not being able to give me what I want. I'm sure I'm forgetting something but these were some of the things he said.

Now I really don't know what to make out of this. My first thought was that he's not really interested in me anymore but after reading this thread, I am staring to think that maybe this is not the case...
Is he just trying to be friends? (I should add that he has no female friends and when he broke up with me he said we could probably never be friends)
Why does he want to spend time with me if he knows what I want? (a relationship)
But I think my post important question is similar to that of the OP: is there a chance of having what we once had again? I really love this man and I have also tried working on myself not being too needy etc...
Does his recent behavior sound like he's still interested? And if yes, what could I do to make things less complicated? He mentioned he'd like to spend time with me but it seems like he's afraid it might get complicated and my over-analyzing the situation sure hasn't helped (I realized this only after speaking to him). I am feeling rejected by him and at the same time I don't understand why he does seem to want to see me again...

I should also add that in about a week I'll start seeing him on a regular basis again as we are coworkers...

Any suggestions what I should do?
 

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Patience is key when trying to gain not win trust with a type 5. Do not lie or make up excuses just own up to what you did. As a 5 in able to understand or put myself in someone else's shoes. But confrontation leads to further shutdown and pushing you out. So if someone i have a problem with comes to me to fix it the conversation will be onesided leaving me to say anything to end the convo. Which solves nothing. And sometimes i just don't know what to say until after the talk which is when i find a bunch of things i could've said. All in all it can be quite frustrating for both sides.

So i found that writing a letter works best. Cause i can focus on what the other person had to say and gain a deeper understanding of everything. It also gives me time to reflect on my own thoughts and feelings and then i can respond appropriately without having to be defensive. And when in ready i will approach the person. We work best according to our own time. Don't force yourself and be patient.. Also be honest with yourself and what you feel and what is you need to say.
 
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