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Discussion Starter #1
I personally attribute Se to certain artistic and musical tastes, such as the movie avatar, where pandora is a fluorescent paradise. I also attribute Se to enjoying things like raves, techno, adventure, and extreme sports.

For example, from the movie avatar:


As INFJ's, how does an inferior Se play out in your lives? Do you think the above activities are boring? Do you enjoy them a lot but they take lots of energy to enjoy? Or are these activities extremely energizing for you?

Also I once heard that when we date someone who "brings out the best in us" that could also be the lowest function being energized. How does it make you feel when you date an Se dominant person?

Thanks.
 

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... I like extreme sports (snow boarding, white water kayaking etc) and beautiful views, but the just the thought of a rave makes me tired... Lazer strike is super fun though lol. I think it's out of (at least my) comfort zone, and have to be lead to do it, but when I get out there it's energizing.
I've never dated an Se, but some of my friends are Se. I didn't like them when I was younger but now that I've learnt to appreciate differences I like that they challenge me :)
 

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I'm not an extreme sports person...I'm just not. I cannot convey how much in words.

I am very sensitive to beautiful things though. I love art, my tastes are pretty eclectic, but I am very drawn to the impressionists, pre-Raphaelites and art novoue. I like to go to art galleries and museums, though I go to more museums than galleries. I surround myself with pretty things, pictures, wind chimes, perfum bottles, and I collect ventian masks. I have been told I have a good eye for design, I put things together in unexpected ways and they just sort of work. I'm a bit like that in how I dress too.

I enjoy old architecture and ruins, dramatic landscapes, the theatre, travelling to other countries and absorbing the atmosphere.

I get a lot out of just sitting somewhere and watching the world go by, people watching or looking up at the sky. I really love looking at the shifting of clouds, I guess that is why I chose the avatar I have. Pictures of the sky just screams hope and possibility too me, as well as complete freedom...which is a little scary while, filling me with an odd sort of longing. It makes me think of answers and questions...all the things I will never know or be, and all the things I will.

I look up at the sky and it makes me feel complete and empty all at once. No words in my head, or pictures, or anything, just this odd feeling resonating in me I can’t possibly describe. Humbling and inspiring and...freeing, free of introspection and questioning everything and where I will end up. I expirence and I feel, without anything else getting in the way. The world just is, no good and no bad...but sort of both at once too...and that is ok, and actually wonderful...

I'm more about spectacle than physical sensation, though I like the sensation of the wind against my skin. It makes me feel very in and of the moment. That feeling in the air before a thunder storm does it too.

I know this sounds sappy/cheesy, but love makes me more aware of the moment, makes me treasure it more and less prone to shut it out.

When I use or trigger Se it is normally because I am happy, and consequences and the future just...don't seem to matter.
 

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The short version: I feel good from light new sensory experiences. The stress is on the word light however. Heavy sensory experiences can make me feel tired, irritable, nauseous, metally repulsed and wanting to escape them, or simply spacing out and escaping into Ni.

The long version:
- If I go to eat out I will frequently try to order something I haven't tried before. I also love going to specialty food and ethnic stores and buying some weird food there, the kind that I don't know even what to do with.
- I like moving to new places and traveling. Feel more uplifted and energetic after I move. In fact I think I simply require change in surroundings once in a while otherwise I start feeling down.
- Can feel really good from just minor sensory experiences. For example I was thinking about some stuff one day and feeling very depressed about it. Then I went outside and just sat there on the sun for a while. This made me feel much better.
- Love big cities, in fact love any places where people concentrate - flee markets, parks, museums, observatories, theaters, beaches, amusement parks, bookstores, airports, etc. These offer continuous light Se input.
- Descriptions of paradise and hell that go over the various sensory stimulation one can expect in those places, such as having whatever you want vs fire and eternal torture never really did anything for me.
- I don't pay attention to people's appearance much. I have noticed that for other girls things like how tall and cute a guy is are significant factors in deciding whether they are dating material. For me this is mostly irrelevant.
- I hate wearing clothing that would attract attention to myself. Usually dress very conservatively. Flashy clothing on other people doesn't attract my attention much unless it is something extremely bizzare. Then I'm gonna stare :p
- Weirdest effect of having inferior sensory function is that I have a sense that objects are not really solid. It is as if I can sense through solid objects, don't know how else to describe it. Been a few occasions where I had to touch something to confirm that it is really solid and there.
- I am not very sporty, quite lazy about going to the gym, and risk-averse when it comes to physical activities. Part of it I attribute to not playing any sports when I was a kid/teenager. My sister has inferior S function as well but when she was growing up my mom signed her up for many different sports classes because she thought she made a mistake with me focusing too much on my academics and not enough on my physical development. Even though both of us have inferior sensory function I can see that my sister definitely takes better to physical activity of any sorts, though otherwise she is just as oblivious to physical detail as I am. I have high sense of self-preservation but at the same time slightly gravitate towards somewhat physically risky activities. For example when skiing I randomly decided to take the black diamond slope down even though I know that I am not up to that level in my skiing yet. Another example, one day my friend and I traveled to a beach. The usual way down was closed off because of rain and mudslides. She said we should turn back. I looked down the cliff, visually planned the route and said no, lets sneak behind the yellow tape, I see a way to get down. It was a bit risky as the path in some places was extremely narrow, but we made it.

With a Se dominant person I feel like we do not have enough in common to start a relationship. In addition, the way ESTP guys try to attract girls usually has some physical component, but it doesn't work well on me. It doesn't ignite much mental interest or emotion. I usually get along better with ESFPs than ESTPs probably because we at least have F in common.
 

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I rely far to much on my Ni to really embrace my Se. I am quite big picture focused and introspective. Too many external stimuli definitely tend to overwhelm my senses. I am not spontaneous and do not feel a need for adventure or excitement. Techno music makes me want to jab a pencil in my ear, and even talking about going to rave would drain all of my reserves. I have heard that Se inferior are compatible with Se dominant, though I cannot imagine dating an Se dominant person. I would prefer someone who relies on her intuition and is calm and does not seek adventure at every turn.

I have on occasion enjoyed extreme sports, purely for the thrill and novelty of the experience. Once I have absorbed this feeling, I rarely feel the need to revisit the same activity. I went sky-diving, once (despite being rather terrified of heights), and whitewater rafting in Uganda on the Nile, once, along with various other "extreme" activities, including running a marathon. I am not competitive at all, and cannot stand to actually watch sporting events (not sure if that is related to Se), or to participate in sports in any way. I find sports to be quite dull. It is only for the immediate thrill and the experience that I have tried the above, and then as little more than a spectator who happened to be along for the ride. I do not feel the need to master anything, and I am quite satisfied with someone more or less holding my hand throughout. Once it is done and absorbed, I am content, and do not need to repeat the experience. One exception from my youth, though hardly qualifying as extreme: I enjoyed water skiing and knee-boarding. Not competitively, more as a lighthearted diversion.

As far as art goes, it is hard for me to appreciate art for art's sake. For me it is more about the underlying meaning. More about symbols, innuendo, and depth. For example, though I thought Avatar had some stunning visuals and an interesting artistic direction, the plot was far too simple and cliched, and that the characters were not well-developed enough. At times, I thought that the effects bordered on the kitschy side. It was a tad too "busy" for me, I suppose. I only moderately enjoyed the film, and would have preferred something less flashy and more substantial.

As I get older, I do find myself wanting to embrace my Se. I want to launch myself fully into a natural setting and remain there, until I am able to become one with my surroundings, until I am inundated with sensory input. To truly live in the moment. Once, in such surroundings, I felt a very intense oneness with the universe. I want to recapture that, though it must be a solitary pursuit. Like Filigeedreamer, I feel a certain charge just before a storm, and even during. Certain external stimuli have this effect on me; the wind, the time just before the onset of fall, the sky. Sometimes I feel the urge to run my hand along the bark of a tree or stone, or to dip my hand into a body of water, even though I know intuitively what the sensation will feel like. Perhaps I am tried of merely intuiting.

One thing is certain, I do not enjoy noise. Loud noises, music, voices, etc. completely overwhelm me, and make me a nervous wreck. Than can even make me physically ill if I am around them for too long. I much prefer silence.
 

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Sometimes I feel the urge to run my hand along the bark of a tree or stone, or to dip my hand into a body of water, even though I know intuitively what the sensation will feel like. Perhaps I am tried of merely intuiting.

One thing is certain, I do not enjoy noise. Loud noises, music, voices, etc. completely overwhelm me, and make me a nervous wreck. Than can even make me physically ill if I am around them for too long. I much prefer silence.
I totally agree with this. I hated school discos as a child and you wont catch me dead in a night club (not unless my lifeless corpes gets dragged there).

I also feel the urge to touch things in my surrounding, leaves, fencing, stone ect, I like interesting textures. I will actually do this if no one else is around. I sometimes keep things like pebbles, buttons, or keyrings with textures I like in my coat pocket. I don't normally tell people that as they think I am weird...I mean I am, but well, there is no need to get funny about it.

When very little I used to like rubbing clothes lables, because they were smooth and soft. My mum would give me them to rub as they relaxed me and sent me to sleep.

As to ESTPs...I dated one...You and Vel are far smarter than I for not doing so or considering such a move. He had very promounced Se, and it became a rather pronounced problem.

I would not say the attraction was to do with physical things (though I was attracted to him physically), I found him sleeping in my hallway one night...and just sort of adopted him like a lost puppy in need of a home. Unfortunately he did the metaphorical equivalent of chewing my furniture and peeing on the floor.

There were some good bits though, if I woke him up at 3am grinning and saying "let’s go play in the woods!" he'd just sort of sigh, get dressed and follow me. I'd then prance about in the moon light talking about the joys of being secret and rapped in the silence of night, while he lent against a tree and eat Doritos. He'd also carry me across muddy fields because I wanted to know what was over there, but was wearing the wrong shoes.

He was very inteligent, funny, read the same books, and he listened to me...he really cared and enjoyed what I had to say. He acted as if everything I said was a revilation. No one else has ever done that. Not to that degree anyway. My INFJ bestfriend is the only one who comes close.

I do think he helped me live in the moment more, but he made me both the happiest and sadest I have ever been.

I think if the Se is not too strong I'd get on pretty well with other ESTPs. I think one of my best childhood friends was/is one. We spent a lot of time climbing trees together and building hide outs with my (suspected) INTP friend, who sort of completed our terrible trio. I wouldn't try anything romantic with one again though, I had way too much trouble with my ex.
 

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Extreme Sports: I've never been into extreme sports; I'm a bit of wimp when it comes to heights etc. However in the past I have done some indoor climbing/abseiling and although I was terrified I loved the feeling of overcoming my fear.

There are quite a few action films that I like such as the Bourne Trilogy. I also really liked the Tomb Raider movies and thought it would be so cool to be like Lara Croft. I feeling the need to get fit and healthy and to go out doors more, but all my attempts so far have ended in failure.

I always loved team sports in school such as netball, basketball, and hockey. However athletics was too boring. Which is probably why I find exercise difficult, it's hard to stay motivated doing it alone.

When I'm out doors I love it. I love the changing seasons; I love noticing the different flowers that come out at different times of the year. I wish I spent more time in nature instead of sat here in front of the computer. It's all too easy to stay in one spot.

Music: I play my music really loud in my car on the way home from work. I find it energising and I love to sing along! I feel like I can let my hair down.

Raves: I don't get much (I don't have any friends...) but when I go to nightclubs with my siblings I have such a good time. I love to dance and allow myself to get lost in the music. It's very tiring though!

I find loud people difficult to work with. One of my colleagues at work who I sat next to didn't talk much, but once you get her onto a subject she like she will be very loud and dramatic and I feel completely exhausted afterwards!

Art: I love art! I love museums and theatre.

My art teacher used to tell me off for not being open minded about 'abstract art'. Other than it looking pretty on a wall I could find no attachment to it. I love the impressionists and pre-raphaelites. I have to be able to connect emotionally with the artwork in order to enjoy it. Otherwise it just leaves me feeling dead or indifferent.
 

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- I don't pay attention to people's appearance much. I have noticed that for other girls things like how tall and cute a guy is are significant factors in deciding whether they are dating material. For me this is mostly irrelevant.
Same here, I never notice what anyone is wearing. However whenpeople used to compliment me on my appearance this would shock me and I'd suddenly find myself looking at them with 'fresh eyes' trying to think of something I could compliment them on.

- I hate wearing clothing that would attract attention to myself. Usually dress very conservatively. Flashy clothing on other people doesn't attract my attention much unless it is something extremely bizzare. Then I'm gonna stare :p
Yep same here.

- Weirdest effect of having inferior sensory function is that I have a sense that objects are not really solid. It is as if I can sense through solid objects, don't know how else to describe it. Been a few occasions where I had to touch something to confirm that it is really solid and there.
This is interesting and from a scientific perspective what we think of as ‘solid’ is not solid. For example when we look at a solid lump of iron or rock we are ‘really’ looking at what is almost entirely empty space. It is convenient for our brain to process a rock as being solid because we can’t walk or fall through and this is because of the electromagnetic forces that hold the atoms in place.
 

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This is interesting and from a scientific perspective what we think of as ‘solid’ is not solid. For example when we look at a solid lump of iron or rock we are ‘really’ looking at what is almost entirely empty space. It is convenient for our brain to process a rock as being solid because we can’t walk or fall through and this is because of the electromagnetic forces that hold the atoms in place.
This is exactly what I start thinking about :crazy: how atom is mostly an empty space, and that perception of a solid is only a matter of electromagnetic forces and size scales that we don't really sense matter as a whole bunch of empty space .... then I start thinking about electrons and protons and neutrons, wondering why structure of atom is what it is, what exactly keeps it together, try to visualize molecular structure of whatever solid I am thinking about, first visualize balls then decide no i should really think about it in terms of probability density functions, then that leads me to thinking about how matter has been created, think about big bang and cosmological constant, and so on and so on. In a way though this is how my intuition tries to explain the inferior sensory function.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@filigeedreamer... interesting how you say you become more receptive to Se when experiencing love. Perhaps its the same explaination for why I become much more social and interesting after playing raquetball or paintball.

@vel... your description of not really believing something to be there is fascinating. I often process everything around me, to the point where I get autistic if there is TOO much to process: one example being when I am in the cafeteria with people all around me yelling, throwing condiments to one another, passing food, asking me to pass food to them, the temperature of the food, the trays holding the food, the noises, the feel of the chair, trying to deal with a lack of elbow room... Se nightmare. I'll get mildly autistic and have the urge to stiff arm things and shreak at people.

@ colossus... good examples. What I got out of those pictures is that you feel overwhelmed when around Se users. I once dated an ENFJ (the epitome of Fe) and I felt intimidated by how incredibly outgoing she was, like I could never keep up or be interesting to her. INFJ's aren't as outgoing but still have that charisma, so its something to look up to but not stress over. Perhaps you feel the same toward us?

Back to vel, when you talk about the thing with inanimate objects not really having a presence to you, it reminds me of those old kung fu movies, or yoga, when they say things like, "feel the rock, become the rock." Perhapse yoga is trying to teach INFJ's to dig down deep and experience that Se.
 

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I have a good INFJ friend whose Se can cause her a great deal of stress (because I think it is our fourth function that causes us stress?). She won't drink, smoke, and has a hard time with certain medications and lotions. She gets anxiety if she uses these things because she feel like she is out of touch with her body and says that she has an out of body experience, This is because her body gets to a state to which she cannot control and she thus becomes extremely stressed. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I though it was an interesting point to add as I was recently discussing this with her.
 

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I have a good INFJ friend whose Se can cause her a great deal of stress (because I think it is our fourth function that causes us stress?). She won't drink, smoke, and has a hard time with certain medications and lotions. She gets anxiety if she uses these things because she feel like she is out of touch with her body and says that she has an out of body experience, This is because her body gets to a state to which she cannot control and she thus becomes extremely stressed. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I though it was an interesting point to add as I was recently discussing this with her.
I don't drink much or smoke, but this has nothing to do with Se. I have other reasons for this.

She might actually be having some sort of panic attack, intense dajar vou (sorry, I really can't spell it) and related anaxiety can be a form of a panic attack, an out of body expirence might be the same sort of thing.

Might be worth meantioning to her doctor if it worries her a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Several INFJ's I've met have been avidly against drinking and smoking. But that might just have to do with the high INFJ ideals and social standards.

Then again I find it a challenge to try to control myself while drunk. Its kinda fun. An ESTP I know can get seriously drunk and still be in perfect control... it might have something to do with it.

Also I know an INFJ who is scared of flying. When I asked her why, she said she didn't know. I told her to wear a blind fold, she said "but its all around you." Sounds like Se to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
When I use or trigger Se it is normally because I am happy, and consequences and the future just...don't seem to matter.
Beautifully put.

So it sounds like you mellow out significantly when you activate it? So I suppose an Se user would teach you to be more in-the-moment and stop worrying about the future?
 

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@filigeedreamer... interesting how you say you become more receptive to Se when experiencing love. Perhaps its the same explaination for why I become much more social and interesting after playing raquetball or paintball.
The same sort of thing working backwards you mean? Se activities making you more in touch with people, where as for me people/love making me more in touch with Se?

Interesting idea.

Drinking and smoking wise...part of it I think is that we are introverts, and drinking is a very social thing to do, often with lots of people. I find being around lots of people, especially drunk ones who arn't as awair of boundries, unapealing.

Self controle is part of it. When I drink I act more like myself, putting up a front is difficult and alchol melts it away...this is not good. It's not just I act weird, which is ok, drunk people do act weird after all. It's that I talk a lot, really really fast, and say things I know I shouldn't be saying. Very personal things.

I want deep and meaningful connection with others, I don't see drinking as a way to get that. I don't like the taste, and generally find it a bit boring, so I do not see what I would get from drinking, other than the desire to hit myself. I actually think it makes me less awair of Se too, and I get very abstract, and my Ni stops working as well. It's like having blury vision. It doesn't feel safe or right.

With smoking...I think it is unattractive and I dislike the smell. I've also had family die from lung cancer, I personally don't want to increase my chances of going the same way. I don't understand why a person would want to smoke, other than as a social thing. I don't do things I strongly dislike or I feel are bad for me purely to be sociable.
 

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How do I experience Se? Well, lets see...

To sum it up, I think Se helps me to enjoy the little things in life.

This would include but it not limited to:
- Scents... perfumes, any type of smelly stuff.
- Music
- That feeling after a good cardio workout
- A perfectly warm spring day
- Drinking a perfectly brewed cup of tea while reading a good book on a warm rainy day
- A good cup of coffee
- My favorite pasta meat sauce
etc. etc. etc.
 

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I don't drink much or smoke, but this has nothing to do with Se. I have other reasons for this.

She might actually be having some sort of panic attack, intense dajar vou (sorry, I really can't spell it) and related anaxiety can be a form of a panic attack, an out of body expirence might be the same sort of thing.

Might be worth meantioning to her doctor if it worries her a lot.



I don't know because I have a really good INTJ friend (also inferior Se) who gets stressed out when she gets sick, drinks caffeine, or gets some sort of sugar rush/high. I think it depends on the person for what body experience it is. I am not saying all INFJs don't drink or smoke because I know a lot who do, but I am saying that I think that when they are out of touch with their body in some way that is personal to them that it causes stress.
 

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Feeling anxious, doubtful, not willing to take a risk before thoroughly thinking it through, is actually combination of several functions. Intuition that needs to overanalyze everything before any actions is taken, feeling function that subtracts from one's self-confidence and gives more value to others, and inferior sensory function that make one be not too comfortable juggling the world of physical objects.

Intuition and sensory functions do seem to counter each other. Engagement of inferior Se function in INFJs does enable us to live more in the moment instead of worrying about future too much or overanalyzing things. Example: I was standing in the shower the other day and thinking about stuff. A few things clicked together but as a result gave me a heavy sense of predetermination and kind of hopelessness. I felt horrible at that point. So what I did is turn off the hot water, first half way, then completely. For the next 3 minutes I was standing in the shower and the only thought on my mind was "omfg! this water is cold! omgomgomg!". All the heavy thoughts that were occupying my mind before that have evaporated. As a result I got out of the shower feeling much more optimistic. Engagement of Se can break the Ni-Ti feedback loop going when INFJ is introverting. This loop at times can be quite heavy and negative.
 

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Feeling anxious, doubtful, not willing to take a risk before thoroughly thinking it through, is actually combination of several functions. Intuition that needs to overanalyze everything before any actions is taken, feeling function that subtracts from one's self-confidence and gives more value to others, and inferior sensory function that make one be not too comfortable juggling the world of physical objects.

Intuition and sensory functions do seem to counter each other. Engagement of inferior Se function in INFJs does enable us to live more in the moment instead of worrying about future too much or overanalyzing things. Example: I was standing in the shower the other day and thinking about stuff. A few things clicked together but as a result gave me a heavy sense of predetermination and kind of hopelessness. I felt horrible at that point. So what I did is turn off the hot water, first half way, then completely. For the next 3 minutes I was standing in the shower and the only thought on my mind was "omfg! this water is cold! omgomgomg!". All the heavy thoughts that were occupying my mind before that have evaporated. As a result I got out of the shower feeling much more optimistic. Engagement of Se can break the Ni-Ti feedback loop going when INFJ is introverting. This loop at times can be quite heavy and negative.
This made me laugh so hard. Reminds me of when someone turns the hot tap on downstairs in my house which causes the shower to go cold. Takes you breath away! and yeah "omfg!"
 
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