[niki]

For example, would you easily got sick even just the thoughts of cheating, or tricking other people while you know that it's not right?
or, it can somewhat be flexed, depending on the situation?

particularly in the business world that my ISTP dad is trying to 'guide' me into,
last week he said something like this: "I know that you're not a stupid person. no. you're quite smart, I know that. but the thing is: sometimes you're way too honest. and in this current world nowadays, there's only a very thin line between honesty and stupidity. not especially when you want to do business!"

I was very uneasy, and I told him straight-away that "I've been like this since I was a small kid like in 4th grade or something, remember when I used to watch so much evil in TV and I was crying, feeling sad & frustrated, prayed a lot, and even made a long writings hopefully to publish it into a book so many people can read & got moved or something"
My dad got silent, but I don't know what he's thinking, he could probably think me as "naive" or something..

honestly, this is what makes me scared so much about the real working world.
especially here in my home country (Indonesia), where almost everything is soo business-oriented, money-oriented, and not only that, but the country is generally so corrupt in like 95% way of doing things!

I know that this thinking might be wrong, but sometimes I can't help but feeling like my dad is trying to show me a 'zone' that I know it would be such a 'dark zone' for me..
I seriously very often feels like "is this what really ahead of me? is this all going to be MY future, and no other way, if I want to get a quite paying job here in Indonesia?? is this all *real-working world* ever there is?? what about being a Teacher, a Priest, a Travel Agent, a Musician?? what....that IT'S ALL NOT PAYING WELL, BE REALISTIC ?????"

I don't know...but my heart now currently & surely tells me that it's probably better being poor & happy,
rather than being rich at the expense of cheating others, tricking other people's money, etc etc
I just don't know if I'll ever able to do all those things..
and then again,..I often got torn with that "honesty = stupidity" remark that my dad said, maybe it's true?
then how can I live in this ever-increasing ultra-competitive era/world today??

what about you guys?
what is your own personal experience, especially those of you who are not already in the so-called real working world?
(sigh...maybe that's why I love school much more than working. there's a sort of 'genuine, pure' in learning in school, as opposed to all the 'tricks, cheats, deceitful techniques' in the working world (especially in doing business).

Let's discuss & share.

 

[refugee]

i figured life is short, so i got out of the rat race long ago...that said, I'm pursuing my own path at the moment. i hope to one day help the poor, disadvantaged, hungry, lonely. truly this is what i was born to do.

 

[xezene]

How we treat each other, our morals, are all we have. It not only reflects how we treat others, it reflects how we treat ourselves. Just running through life, I've found that it is easily very important to my own internal happiness. So I would perhaps consider it to be very important.

 

[Lad]

I'm a bit of an Entrepreneur-type so I've had a lot of cases where I had essentially the same idea you're talking about. It definitely is conflicting, but usually I aim for something that benefits both parties reasonably. I do tell little lies, but nothing groundbreaking (usually in relation to profit margin).

Old school business practice is scrooge em for every penny. However, nowadays in many businesses it's about relationship building. The most common places you'll see this are....

Cellular businesses (not in -all- cases ), car dealerships, mechanics, etc.

The idea is that you take less of a profit at the beginning, but maintain a customer for the long term that is not only more likely to do business with you again, but also recommend you to friends. While it's hard to get the exact figure of how much that benefits, it's becoming more and more common.

Most people are very thankful that you're genuine with them. In many cases, people that are confident in the product or service you provide often don't mind paying a bit more of a premium than what might be found elsewhere. Loyalty goes a long way and it's much easier to keep a customer than it is to attract a new one.

Now, I don't know exactly how "honest" you are, but it's also possible your dad is stuck on the basic principles in the past that have worked for him. There is always more than 1 way to do something, just do what you feel is right for you.

 

[Ineffable]

Hey Niki,

I strongly identify with your struggle. It does seem that the general progression of the world is away from the INFP way of life, and more towards an ESTJ way of life...or some other more aggressive personality type.

One thing you should know in whatever you do: honesty is ok. It may make your life more complicated, it might make you take detours around the shortest path to success. It might even make you fail. But your integrity will also be a strength to you. Honesty is so rare that when someone recognizes it in you, it will make you more immeasurably valuable than you can imagine. Corruption and dishonesty are so ubiquitous that your virtues will stand out, and will attract those who seek it. I'm talking about whatever you do.

Your father sounds like a personality type that does not comprehend your personality type. I can relate to that, as my dad is quite the opposite of me, also. You should realize that his vision of success and what it takes to succeed are different from what you consider success, and what you consider necessary to succeed. In your father's mind, it's going to be more of a materialistic, monetary success. A career success. A domination success. Perhaps.

For an INFP, however, success is not defined by such terms. Rather, success is defined by the journey, by one's integrity, by the impact on our fellow man. Your vision of success might not even be something you can visualize or define. Hence, a path to success is even more vague because you can't really define a path to an unknown place. But that's ok, and you should realize that its ok. Just because your dad doesn't understand it doesn't mean that you're not right to stick with who you are. Remember: you are who you are, and it would be a big mistake to try to be someone else. In the end, you'll only be faking it, and you'll end up feeling so dishonest with yourself, that no matter what "success" you realize, you'll always feel as a failure to yourself.

I say, follow what you believe to be the right path. You should do what you think is right, you should continue to be who you are, and the rest will follow. There is something unique and powerful to who you are, and you should leverage that, instead of leveraging the qualities of another personality type that you yourself have come to despise. Don't be something you're not, and definitely don't be something you hate to be.

Understand that your dad's path to success is different than yours. One path does not fit all. If you follow the path he took, you won't be happy with your outcome, even if you win the approval of your dad.

If you're looking to be in your own business, you should seek to do the kind of work that works well with honesty, the type that helps other people, the kind that you can truly believe in, the type where you can be proud of what you've said and done, and know that you've done right by everyone you've come into contact with.

I wish you much luck in this endeavor. It's because of people like you that our world is still habitable.

 

[HannahDanielle]

I have "moral flexibility" in that I can be ok with something as long as there is informed consent.

 

[niki]

@Ineffable: I almost got my eyes teary when I read your post..
thank you so much, that was beautiful post that sort of invigorates me back to Life!
your post has really re-assured me again, amidst all these 'heavy pressures & expectations' I'm currently getting from 'society' and the real working world.
it means a lot.

 

[MilkyLatte]

I believe moral and ethics are very important. I believe that when you do something immoral or unethical (it's really subjective what is moral and ethical), it will find a way to come back and bite you in the ass. Like if you write on your resume that you're qualified in CPR, even though you know you don't remember anything from the course you took 7 years ago but just write it to seem more impressive, eventually you might be asked to do CPR and people would count on your ability to do it right.

This is just an example from the top of my head, but I'm a pretty firm believer in karma. It's very hard to do something wrong and get away with it.

This being said, I'm rather prone to white lies. But then again, there's something slightly right about them; you tell them to spare people's feelings.

 

[jd_]

Extremely, but it has been weird... and was never from a doctrine (I'm atheist). For instance, I once I leveraged out how downloading mp3s was fine, later to change that view and delete all of them. I've done similar odd things with vegetarianism etc. I am however not moral about sex at all, except I am strict about being monogamous.
Sometimes I feel bad about getting "deals" on things and think I should pay more, when I do business for myself, I also feel bad about charging people too much, I'd be pretty horrible business person. My views are pretty socialist/communist.
I've often felt terrible about the companies I have worked for and ended up quitting even though I didn't have much money saved, not that they were doing anything bad like slaughtering animals, they were just standard run of the mill companies like insurance firms or banking companies.
I've done the whole volunteering overseas thing.
I feel BAD about eating say, at chain restaurants, but sometimes I have to do it.
I swore off the rat race only 3 years after entering it, but because of student loans had to find ways to pay them back... Ended up changing career fields towards writing/journalism/film something more creative/helpful, but still working on that.
The problem is my idealism is far more ethical than the laws or religious doctrines imply, and I have to readjust it to cope in society.

 

[ChaosEqualsFun]

I am too busy keeping trying to keep my friends from having any conflicts with their own morals. The fact is that although morals make you strong, they also open holes that can be exploited by others. I am quite pragmatic and my ethics might be lacking in some ways but I do it to protect my friends. You might want to consider how your morals are affecting those around you.

I am not saying you should stop having your morals/ values, I am just saying that there might be reasons for choosing the other approach.

 

[Sily]

I like to be able to sleep at night and I like keeping my regrets to a minimum so I REALLY do try to live a virtuous life. I could not cheat a customer on a regular basis, like your dad is asking you to do. Heck, I even think changing my username is a form of fooling people. I do NOT start conflict for fun or to engage others. I don't troll to get them to reveal more info. I'm not perfect but I do try on a daily basis to watch what I do.

 

[Luanne]

I think I have strong morals. But to me, morality is flexible in itself. Like you might hold the view that stealing is wrong, but then come across a situation where stealing is the right thing to do (poor parent trying to feed starving children for example).