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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can imagine how Ti is similar to Fi, but not Te and Fe.

I know they are both extraverted, but Te is like goal-oriented and Fe is not about goal... I just don't understand the relationship between Te and Fe. Can someone explain it to me? Or give some examples?
 
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Te and Fe are both concerned with outer order, much like Ti and Fi are concerned with inner order.

Fe is outer sorting of values, Te is outer sorting of logic. Fe is like making sure everyone is on the "same page" emotionally, striving for a stable and pleasant emotional atmosphere. It tries to solve interpersonal conflicts to achieve this. Te is not concerned with the personal, though. It's harder for me to grasp Te personally and therefore try to explain it, but... Te is concerned with impersonal order, like the scientific method, making sure others are "doing their job", etc. It strives for efficiency and competence in the world, regardless of shared values.
 

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They both want closure and results in the environment.

I said the difference between Te and Fe is that Te is more interested in the game/board, and Fe is more interested in the pieces on the board. It is also an objective system/game with well defined rules. Te focuses on moving the pieces to the goal. Fe also sees where pieces should be on the board, in a different way. There is an objective landscape that everything moves in relation to.

Both Te and Fe want music. This big orchestra, you can't have Ti and Fi banging to their own tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Te and Fe are both concerned with outer order.

Fe is outer sorting of values, Te is outer sorting of logic. Fe is like making sure everyone is on the "same page" emotionally, striving for a stable and pleasant emotional atmosphere. It tries to solve interpersonal conflicts to achieve this. Te is not concerned with the personal, though. It's harder for me to grasp Te personally and therefore try to explain it, but... Te is concerned with impersonal order, like the scientific method, making sure others are "doing their job", etc. It strives for efficiency and competence in the world, regardless of shared values.
Why would they be concerned with outer order just because they "extravert" their feeling/thinking? Why would they want to control other people?

I often see people using the word logic to describe Ti and scientific method for Te, but how do you distinguish logic and scientific method? I know they don't equal, but isn't the scientific method logical, a way of logical thinking?

Te and Fe seem to be doing very different things, which is why I can't really link them together. :frustrating:
 

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The similarity between Te and Fe is looking objectively for useful information. The Fe type watches closely to body language, facial expressions and vocal tone in order to create a Ti system to understand humanity. The Te type looks for resources/tools, statistics, et al to be valued by Fi. The similarity is that they both filter the information gathered by Se or Ne, and find use for it.

Just to add further clarity, perceiving functions try to observe the world the way it is (Pe) or to gain an impression of the world (Pi), and do not attempt to change it. Judging functions are focused around changing the perceived information.

Ti concerns itself with the consistency of theories/models/systems. Ti is the centre pillar of formal logic. Ti is also a common source of causal-deterministic thinking due to its analytical nature.
 

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Why would they be concerned with outer order just because they "extravert" their feeling/thinking? Why would they want to control other people?

I often see people using the word logic to describe Ti and scientific method for Te, but how do you distinguish logic and scientific method? I know they don't equal, but isn't the scientific method logical, a way of logical thinking?

Te and Fe seem to be doing very different things, which is why I can't really link them together. :frustrating:
The J/P in the code describes how a type interacts with the environment. A type interacts with its first extroverted function. INFP and INTP interact with Ne. INFJ and INTJ interact with Fe and Te. The perceiving function is hidden. Similar to how the Fi and Ti is hidden in INFP and INTP.

Fe and Te need outside input. Fi and Ti are like perpetual motion machines that can run forever. It is an internal and personal system that is immune to the outside world.
 

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Why would they be concerned with outer order just because they "extravert" their feeling/thinking? Why would they want to control other people?

I often see people using the word logic to describe Ti and scientific method for Te, but how do you distinguish logic and scientific method? I know they don't equal, but isn't the scientific method logical, a way of logical thinking?

Te and Fe seem to be doing very different things, which is why I can't really link them together. :frustrating:
How about now?

Dynamics (Extroverted Judgment):


Dynamics is what a person reaches into when they need to output objective external structure, or take in objective external structure. Dynamics functions are directive functions that focus on the objective dynamics of an external system. Fe focuses on the system of social dynamics, how everyone feels about what, and how they can be directed into feeling something else. Te focuses on the dynamics of the objective systems of logical protocol, how something is working, and how it can direct others to operating an objective system. There is a “Push” and “Push back” that occurs when the Dynamics functions are being used. “Push” is what happens when the an action is taken by an external decision, and “Push Back” is the detection of how the external dynamics are currently operating. The Dynamics functions also serve as a person’s articulator, as it takes a person’s subjective thoughts and perceptions and turns it into a structured, objective, and external language. Because of this, personality types with dominant dynamics functions, such as the ENTJ or ESFJ for example, will be able to articulate with the most ease and types with inferior dynamics functions will have the most trouble with articulation. It is also the Dominant Dynamics types that need this articulation in order to help clarify their own thoughts and understandings. They start by “pushing” their perspectives onto others, and then when they are pushed back by the outside world, they introvert to check with their worldview to see why they got the “Push back” reaction that they did. Once they see the solution then they “Push” again, and the cycle continuous.
 

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I think of it as both being Judging. Te or Fe users will not be afraid of telling it like it is (at least in their mind). Both Te and Fe have a set of "axioms" which all decisions, at their fundamental level, should abide by. My understanding is that Te sets its "standards" based on what seems irrefutably rational - based fundamentally on logic. Fe sets "standards" based on social etiquette or de-facto ethics. They both classify decisions as being "good or bad", "right or wrong" based on the extent to which they are objectively inline with the logical/ethical criteria.
 

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I think of it as both being Judging. Te or Fe users will not be afraid of telling it like it is (at least in their mind). Both Te and Fe have a set of "axioms" which all decisions, at their fundamental level, should abide by. My understanding is that Te sets its "standards" based on what seems irrefutably rational - based fundamentally on logic. Fe sets "standards" based on social etiquette or de-facto ethics. They both classify decisions as being "good or bad", "right or wrong" based on the extent to which they are objectively inline with the logical/ethical criteria.
T types are prone to tell it like it is and prefer honesty. F types normally prefer to spare feelings, or will tell you the truth in an extremely tactful way.
 
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They are both extraverted judging functions, so both will be associated with control and influence, sometimes even so strongly so that the fact they are coming from completely different places may be seen as secondary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Fe and Te need outside input. Fi and Ti are like perpetual motion machines that can run forever. It is an internal and personal system that is immune to the outside world.
Does it mean an Fe-type often need outside validation like some kind of real-world evidence to feel good about themselves, and an Te-type would need real-world proof/evidence to validate their thinking?

The J/P in the code describes how a type interacts with the environment. A type interacts with its first extroverted function. INFP and INTP interact with Ne. INFJ and INTJ interact with Fe and Te. The perceiving function is hidden. Similar to how the Fi and Ti is hidden in INFP and INTP.
I was thinking that you could interact with the world without manipulating others, at least not so much or so aggressively as it sounds to me. Maybe those would be Ps then? Or does it really have to do with types?

So Se would want to go into the physical world and experience it. What about Fe? They would want to interact with people? I mean people are not "feeling" or values. Just because you judge according to group value, it doesn't mean you need to do things like controlling people, keeping group harmony, making sure everyone feel good, etc., right? You can make different judgments simply for your own use.
 
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Does it mean an Fe-type often need outside validation like some kind of real-world evidence to feel good about themselves, and an Te-type would need real-world proof/evidence to validate their thinking?
Fe wants to talk out things and hear your opinion, even if they have already made up their mind. They need validation, not solutions. I don't fully agree with the saying, "don't try to fix her problems, just listen", I think they can still pick up advice. Te has the need to look for evidence in form of studies, articles etc., a kinda big confirmation bias. I wonder do (extrovert?) Te's have need to talk out their ideas though.

Both have no trouble with commanding people, if needed. I once thought that if ENTJs are the leaders, then ESFJs must be the leaders on the emotional field. Both like to extend their logic or feeling -based realities onto others and expect everyone to adhere to them. Talking about manipulation, in my mind, Te plays with people like logistics, whereas Fe plays with people's emotions, both just as clever, manipulation isn't necessarily anything malignant.

Fe can be just as direct and cold as Te based on my experience, to say Fe's not always so subtle. I often find myself, in a conversation, trying to get silent people to talk some, is that something Fe's do? Does Te sometimes seem like Fe or vice versa? Met once an ESTJ realtor who was such a clever Fe-manipulator with words, it was however so plain and yucky, not a drop of honesty. I'm trying to learn from him, don't manipulate guys. :wink:
 

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Te and Fe seem to be doing very different things, which is why I can't really link them together. :frustrating:
They souldn't be linked together! The similarities stop at their extroversion and their judging nature.


Fe users all use Ti and so you should link those two things in your mind, not Fe and Te.

Te seeks to simplify for directness and practicality, Fe as the outer face of Ti complicates for total eventual benefit.

Fe could be thought of as an instrument having many strings at once, like Ti, which can make beautiful cascading harmony at it's best but gets very tangled and ineffective at it's worst.

Te - Fi is comparable to a wind instrument, one note at a time but with great tone, depth and clarity.
 

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Te and Fe are, as @ElectricSparkle has mentioned both extroverted rational functions, according to Carl Jung. If I am not mistaken, then I believe that at their most basic levels, Te makes judgments based on what is commonly or standardly held as objective information, which means that Te-doms (ENTJ and ESTJ) will demand external, verifiable data before coming to judgments. Fe, on the other hand, makes judgments based on the shared feelings and values of the cultures and groups that they feel attached to. For this reason, Fe-doms (ENFJ and ESFJ) are generally seen as being able to pick up on the feelings and moral compasses of their audience quite well.
 

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Te and Fe are both concerned with outer order, much like Ti and Fi are concerned with inner order.

Fe is outer sorting of values, Te is outer sorting of logic. Fe is like making sure everyone is on the "same page" emotionally, striving for a stable and pleasant emotional atmosphere. It tries to solve interpersonal conflicts to achieve this. Te is not concerned with the personal, though. It's harder for me to grasp Te personally and therefore try to explain it, but... Te is concerned with impersonal order, like the scientific method, making sure others are "doing their job", etc. It strives for efficiency and competence in the world, regardless of shared values.
Yes this
 

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I think Je are both prone to certain strengths and to certain flaws.

Strengths:

Endurance
Loyalty
Protective of Loved ones
Hard Working
Leaders

Weaknesses:

Short Tempered
Takes out stress with food or alcohol
Lacking compassion to the point of injustice
Tyrannical
 

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Not sure.

I noticed in myself that there are 2 ways to view my cat. One is most dominant- I project myself onto it. I empathize and most often view the cat as having emotions like my own and try to empathize with it.
I wonder if this is Fe. It is my weakness, it causes me to lack objectivity. It causes me bias that I'm generally unaware of.i can't actually know what the cat is feeling, but I unconsciously project my own self onto the cat.




My INFP thinks this is weird. His 4th function is Te. He doesn't think he knows what the cat is feeling. He doesn't project himself into the cat. He tells the cat what to do. He is excercising Te. This is his weakness. He doesn't have any empathy for the cat like I do. He sees the cat as an object separate from himself that he is the boss of.


In human interactions this occurs too. We are very similar, but when someone does something immoral, I do too much empathy and try to make excuses by understandinf their point of view, even to my detriment.
He is able to condemn people easier and make an action to punish the person or separate contact.
I think the stress causes us to use our 4th functions, which both of us don't know yet how to balance into a healthy compromise.
 

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I can see that I'm learning from him and he's learning from me. We're picking up each other's habits.

I'll talk to the cat and say stupid things that I like to hear, like, "You're so pretty, I'm proud of you."The next day he will repeat verbose what I said to the cat. At first I thought he was making fun of me, but then I realized he didn't even realize he was copying me. He was doing it subconsciously! Where he never did this before when we first got that cat!

And it wasn't til the literally this past week that I turned off my empathy and saw the cat as an object separate from myself and realized how I had been projecting myself onto it.

As me and my INFPS are reaching middle age our personalities are changing a little bit, learning from each other has becoming more balanced.
 
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