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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet. I was friends with a 33 yr old ISTJ for a few months, and then we dated for a month. He's a civil engineer and high-ranking navy officer. He broke up with me at the end of September because we didn't have a "spark", but he insisted that we remain friends. I felt blindsided by this because literally nothing significant happened, and he seemed very passionate about me when we first started dating. I met his family and friends, and he asked me about my wedding preferences (location, dress...). He wanted to take me with him to Romania, because that is where he is being deployed at the end of the summer. When it ended, I cried for 2 days and then mulled over it in my mind incessantly because quite frankly "spark" is a bs answer. I suspect it had something to do with me telling him that I was waiting for marriage to have sex. I try to make this known at the first date, but perhaps I wasn't clear. When I met him, it seemed like we wanted the same things (marriage, family, etc.). I guess I have a difficult time wrapping my mind around the fact that that in itself could be a deal breaker. Sometimes I wonder if he regrets his decision because he seems to get jealous when another man flirts with me or merely looks at me, he tried to make me jealous by going out with someone I thought was my friend and announcing it to all our mutual friends, and even now he occasionally brings up sweet memories of us when we were dating. However, because of his immaturity and his pride, I would be very surprised if he ever asked to get back together. There was also a time I blacked out from drinking too much on Halloween, and he held me (there's a terrible photo of it all haha). I really should stop thinking about all this at this point...I guess I feel that he lied to me and that he isn't as deep of a person as I thought initially since it was a lack of intimacy after only a month of dating that caused him to lose interest, and that bothers me. It seems that our relationship meant more to me than it did to him, but he led me to believe otherwise. Clearly, I fell too fast. Are ISTJ's manipulative? I am aware that many men see sex as a requirement in a relationship, but is that true for traditional ISTJ men who truly want to get married? I respect myself, and I thought such a man would appreciate that. There's more to me than what's between my legs.
 

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You hearing reason "X" for the breakup, and concluding it is B'S and deriving your own reason is probably a mistake. Most types can and do give BS answers, most ISTJ's dont. They just cut things off and end it, saving both parties a lot of grief. There are certainly exceptions, but that is actually a normal ISTJ way to handle a dead end relationship.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well, first of all, I feel that his reason was a vague one, and he was unable (or unwilling) to elaborate on that when I asked him to elucidate. Secondly, why would you introduce someone you didn't have a connection with to your mother and sister?? He often compared me to his ex and mentioned that he didn't need to watch porn when he was with her. I took that to mean that he needed to when he was with me since we did not have intercourse. At the end of the day, I brought this on myself. I ignored all the red flags, and I feel silly for posting. I need to move on.
 

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Situation figured. Yeah, best to move on.

(Plus we can't really figure out the exact why's and wherefore's. We're too far removed from the situation.)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Agreed. With the exception of one, all of his relationships didn't last longer than 6mo. And when he went out with my friend, I don't think he realized that she's actually a lesbian... :laughing:
 

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Agreed. With the exception of one, all of his relationships didn't last longer than 6mo. And when he went out with my friend, I don't think he realized that she's actually a lesbian... :laughing:
That in bold ^^^

We are never going to meet him. We are never going to meet you. The situation is dead, so far as you are concerned. Passing this on is effectively irrelevant. So why did you write this?

It seems as though something about your situation is still stuck in your craw, still bothering the hell out of you. Most likely subconscious?

If so: then whatever it is is very deeply buried and very private to you. Something that your conscious mind really doesn't want to look at.

Only a suggestion: you might want to take some time for serious examination of your thought-processes regarding this. Some slow and thoughtful introspection-time.

Because if you don't: you might end up repeating a similar pattern with another man, as your subconscious attempts to work through whatever-it-might-be. Repeating a painful pattern 2-3-more times can really make a mess of your life.
 

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Situation figured. Yeah, best to move on.

(Plus we can't really figure out the exact why's and wherefore's. We're too far removed from the situation.)
Sorry OP, I'm going a bit off topic.
This is why I'm often reluctant to answer relationship questions. We are usually only hearing one side of it. I often wonder how different it might appear if we could hear both sides.

I grew up in household where my mom complained about my dad all the time. It wasn't until many years into adulthood that I realized I had formed a lot of negative opinions of my dad based upon hearing only one side of the story. I wonder how different that story might sound if I heard both sides. My dad passed away more than a decade ago so I will never have the opportunity to hear his side of the story.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes, it is a dead situation. I just needed to vent. As I said before, I feel silly for posting. Yes, it obviously still bothers me. Why else would I consult strangers online? It's been a long time since I've felt this hurt and betrayed, and I feel that I'm not being allowed to forget. I've tried twice to remove myself from the group. It hurt that he broke it off, but it hurt even more when someone who called herself my friend aggressively pursued him immediately afterwards. I don't understand people. I don't understand this behavior. Why are people so cruel? I don't hate him, and I have no desire to hurt him. I am trying to put everything behind me and move forward because that is what I must do. But it's so difficult. It hurts so much.
 

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Coming here to get perspective and perhaps some resolution to feelings was a great first step. Processing it is a great second step. Lernign to move on is often the hardest step, but you are working on it, so good for you.
 

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I'm going to try to keep this short and sweet. I was friends with a 33 yr old ISTJ for a few months, and then we dated for a month. He's a civil engineer and high-ranking navy officer. He broke up with me at the end of September because we didn't have a "spark", but he insisted that we remain friends. I felt blindsided by this because literally nothing significant happened, and he seemed very passionate about me when we first started dating.
He broke up with you after one month, which is a good thing here, it could've been longer before he decided to do so. I think it's actually quite a common thing with some people losing the initial interest fast. But in your case it might be more, see below on that.


I met his family and friends, and he asked me about my wedding preferences (location, dress...). He wanted to take me with him to Romania, because that is where he is being deployed at the end of the summer. When it ended, I cried for 2 days and then mulled over it in my mind incessantly because quite frankly "spark" is a bs answer.
I think I get why you are upset about all this. I first didn't until I read on to see his comments on his ex... and then realizing he was jumping into this relationship real fast. Plans about wedding and travel... and introduction to family, huh.


I suspect it had something to do with me telling him that I was waiting for marriage to have sex. I try to make this known at the first date, but perhaps I wasn't clear. When I met him, it seemed like we wanted the same things (marriage, family, etc.). I guess I have a difficult time wrapping my mind around the fact that that in itself could be a deal breaker.
Why are you unsure if you were clear enough on the first date about this? What exactly did you tell him, if you can quote it?

I figure it can be a deal breaker but in your case there is probably more...


Sometimes I wonder if he regrets his decision because he seems to get jealous when another man flirts with me or merely looks at me, he tried to make me jealous by going out with someone I thought was my friend and announcing it to all our mutual friends, and even now he occasionally brings up sweet memories of us when we were dating.
I would not want to comment on whether that was an actual motive of his, to make you jealous by going out with someone else. Maybe yes, maybe not. That's in general however not typical of an ISTJ to try and manipulate subtle feelings like that. Nah.

How does he act when he seems to get jealous?

I dunno what's with the sweet memories, is it intimate memories or more just friendly?

You could be projecting your own feelings (of still being interested in him) to the whole situation, so that's why I think you should look at these questions more closely.


I guess I feel that he lied to me and that he isn't as deep of a person as I thought initially since it was a lack of intimacy after only a month of dating that caused him to lose interest, and that bothers me. It seems that our relationship meant more to me than it did to him, but he led me to believe otherwise. Clearly, I fell too fast. Are ISTJ's manipulative?
No, ISTJs aren't manipulative in this subtle way. I doubt he was intentionally leading you on since he ended things quite fast. Yes, possible he lost interest due to lack of sexual intimacy. Also possible it was at that point that he realized he lost the initial and suspiciously strong interest/emotional response.


I am aware that many men see sex as a requirement in a relationship, but is that true for traditional ISTJ men who truly want to get married? I respect myself, and I thought such a man would appreciate that. There's more to me than what's between my legs.
Personal opinion, I don't think having sex means disrespecting oneself, even if the person is a woman and not a man... I won't enter debate on this though... And I was not saying this to offend you or anyone else.

Yeah I'm sure some ISTJ men will want sex before marriage, today it's commonly enough accepted to have sex before marriage so unless the ISTJ is religious in that way, I don't think it's likely to be true of them to wait until marriage. You'd want to ask them about this next time I guess.


Well, first of all, I feel that his reason was a vague one, and he was unable (or unwilling) to elaborate on that when I asked him to elucidate. Secondly, why would you introduce someone you didn't have a connection with to your mother and sister?? (...) He often compared me to his ex and mentioned that he didn't need to watch porn when he was with her. I took that to mean that he needed to when he was with me since we did not have intercourse.
Yeah that one is bad IMO, about mentioning porn like that in that context. The topic of porn itself isn't necessarily bad but the context of the comparison to ex is a red flag. He sounds like he's not / was not yet past his ex... without he himself realizing that earlier. If this is true, then yeah, you had really bad luck here. :/ It's hard to prevent this if you don't prepare for it by getting information on the guy's last relationship in time.

This is not related to type, just some guys who are not emotionally aware enough about this issue (which is most of them, lol, and true of some girls too) will jump into the next relationship really fast. IIRC it's called a "rebound". That extra strong initial emotional reaction doesn't last long tho' and then it all ends.

Overall I think your gut instinct about how something is off here was right... I wish you luck with moving on fast from this crap.
 

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It seems as though something about your situation is still stuck in your craw, still bothering the hell out of you. Most likely subconscious?

If so: then whatever it is is very deeply buried and very private to you. Something that your conscious mind really doesn't want to look at.

Only a suggestion: you might want to take some time for serious examination of your thought-processes regarding this. Some slow and thoughtful introspection-time.

Because if you don't: you might end up repeating a similar pattern with another man, as your subconscious attempts to work through whatever-it-might-be. Repeating a painful pattern 2-3-more times can really make a mess of your life.
This is interesting stuff. How do you do introspection about this subconscious stuff, any usable methods? Or it's all just vague crap where you either get lucky or not?

I mean, I can have something nagging me subconsciously when something about a situation does not add up. Then I have to analyze and analyze and analyze - with breaks between because I don't seem to be able to do it continuously anymore when I run out of a "trail" to go on; zero ability to brainstorm - until I finally get it all put together with all the bits of the issue identified correctly.

But how do I do that for noticing overarching and complex repeating patterns like that? I think the only approach I have there is if I have the type of situation repeating and then I can compare them... then same analysis-break-analysis as above. For the "vague crap" (with people) it can take very long tho'... What helped was reading up on certain topics where I could connect all of it to experience while just gaining more and more experience. Until linking it all to experience, I couldn't make sense of the topics tho'...
 

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retrospective/introspective thought comes naturally for some, and it has some MBTI factors to it. It is part of the process for INFP's and part of why they take more time to "process feelings" than many other types. I do my best thinking after the fact.

Mentionign porn may not relate to the OP. To me I can relate to the statement. When the sex is good, I don't masturbate at all, and don't even think about porn. When my needs go un-met, it starts to come to mind more and more. If I continue to have unmet needs, porn is the natural outlet. Saying "I didn't even look at porn when I was with her" to me means : "my sex life was satisfying". It does seem like it could imply something, but it's doesn't have to. ISTJ's don't communicate with implications though, they just tell it to you straight : "sex was good". I this case so good he didn't need any crutch.
 

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retrospective/introspective thought comes naturally for some, and it has some MBTI factors to it. It is part of the process for INFP's and part of why they take more time to "process feelings" than many other types. I do my best thinking after the fact.

Mentionign porn may not relate to the OP. To me I can relate to the statement. When the sex is good, I don't masturbate at all, and don't even think about porn. When my needs go un-met, it starts to come to mind more and more. If I continue to have unmet needs, porn is the natural outlet. Saying "I didn't even look at porn when I was with her" to me means : "my sex life was satisfying". It does seem like it could imply something, but it's doesn't have to. ISTJ's don't communicate with implications though, they just tell it to you straight : "sex was good". I this case so good he didn't need any crutch.
To me OP's whole story with all the pieces put together sounds like OP's ex was "rebounding". The point was not the porn part but making the comparison to the ex.
 

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Yardiff Bey said:
It seems as though something about your situation is still stuck in your craw, still bothering the hell out of you. Most likely subconscious?

If so: then whatever it is is very deeply buried and very private to you. Something that your conscious mind really doesn't want to look at.

Only a suggestion: you might want to take some time for serious examination of your thought-processes regarding this. Some slow and thoughtful introspection-time.

Because if you don't: you might end up repeating a similar pattern with another man, as your subconscious attempts to work through whatever-it-might-be. Repeating a painful pattern 2-3-more times can really make a mess of your life.
This is interesting stuff. How do you do introspection about this subconscious stuff, any usable methods? Or it's all just vague crap where you either get lucky or not?

I mean, I can have something nagging me subconsciously when something about a situation does not add up. Then I have to analyze and analyze and analyze - with breaks between because I don't seem to be able to do it continuously anymore when I run out of a "trail" to go on; zero ability to brainstorm - until I finally get it all put together with all the bits of the issue identified correctly.

But how do I do that for noticing overarching and complex repeating patterns like that? I think the only approach I have there is if I have the type of situation repeating and then I can compare them... then same analysis-break-analysis as above. For the "vague crap" (with people) it can take very long tho'... What helped was reading up on certain topics where I could connect all of it to experience while just gaining more and more experience. Until linking it all to experience, I couldn't make sense of the topics tho'...
Unfortunately much of it is hit-and-miss.

What seems to work for me is a combination of relaxing and being mindful after the fact (as @chad86tsi stated).

If I can "notice" a repeated pattern, that then allows me to attempt assessing other instances. If it has repeated several other times, then it is likely a mental pattern or habit. Then I can try digging in and figuring out what might have caused that pattern/habit.

Many times, things just "come to me" in a half-awake state - just before sleep or just after awakening. Meditation is a more deliberate inducement of that state and can be quite helpful too.

Sometimes the "notice" is a friend saying "why'd you do that?"
=======================================
In the OPs case, her coming back and offering more information was an indication that she was not moving on from this situation. The likely reason is that there is an issue somewhere here. One that is bugging the hell out of her subconscious.

Now, going back to rereading the OPs original post, this jumps out at me:
There was also a time I blacked out from drinking too much on Halloween
I do not know about the OP's habits, however this doesn't seem to be to be a "normal" time for heavy-duty drinking. (Plus I thought Halloween was for kiddies - am I wrong? Is there a huge drinking culture on at that time of year too?)

Taking this further: blackout drunk does not seem like a good sign for an INTJ. Why would they risk damaging their mind/health with this much alcohol?

Yes, a little alcohol as a depressant can stop the brain from spinning out of control. Blackout drunk seems extreme. What caused this? We do not know. Yet, OP stated this in her post, plus stating that ISTJ ex-boyfriend "held her through this".

Breakup was at end of September. Blackout drunk Halloween is at end of October.

If these are linked - which it may be, though how we do not know - what pain is OP attempting to blot out of her mind?

OP is on here in January (3 months after the breakup) trying to get answers. She then decides to flag it...comes back with more information that is not immediately relevant...to me, this indicates that her subconscious is screaming something at her, and she does not seem capable of seeing that. Or does not want to.

This is why I suggested that she take some introspection-time out. Even her subconscious is saying "hey we really need this looked at!"

In a way, she's somewhat aware of it - even if she doesn't want too look at it closely. It must be something very personal and painful, for her to avoid it like that. Yet it is still coming up, 3 months after the fact now, bothering the hell out of her.

Now, we aren't therapists. We have no clue as to her life. This could take her weeks, months, even years to finally sort this knot of pain out. We are simply in the position of being that person saying: "Hey. You. Why'd you do that?"

The rest of it is up to her.
 

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For me: relaxing while walking down the beach is also a good way of letting things pop into the mind. Laying on the grass and watching the clouds move across the sky. Pretty-much anything that lets you zone out and stills the mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok, I know a lot can be misconstrued through text, but I think you're exaggerating a little bit. First of all, I live in a big city, and in big cities drinking is HUGE especially on Halloween. You make me sound like a mental case. Being that drunk on Halloween was an accident. I'm not a big drinker, and the ex bought me a long island iced tea. I had never had one before, and I didn't know my body would have so drastic a reaction after drinking less than 3oz.

Yes, 3mo is a long time, and I should be over it by now. It's difficult because I see him almost every day. We go to the same gym, and we are in the same friend group. We have a fb messenger thread, and they talk every day. I left the group twice. He re-added me the first time, and another friend re-added me the second time. I cannot financially afford to consider a membership at another gym (I currently have free membership at this one). He's being deployed to Romania at the end of the summer, so he shouldn't matter to me anymore.

I've said this twice already, and I'll say it again: I feel silly for posting. What we had didn't mean anything. I realize that now. It all seems so petty, and I should stop over-analyzing. Dating sucks lol. I think my problem is that I keep dating men who have different moral views and different expectations from a relationship. I do feel better though. Thank you all for letting me rant.
 

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Ok, I know a lot can be misconstrued through text, but I think you're exaggerating a little bit. First of all, I live in a big city, and in big cities drinking is HUGE especially on Halloween. You make me sound like a mental case. Being that drunk on Halloween was an accident. I'm not a big drinker, and the ex bought me a long island iced tea. I had never had one before, and I didn't know my body would have so drastic a reaction after drinking less than 3oz.

Yes, 3mo is a long time, and I should be over it by now. It's difficult because I see him almost every day. We go to the same gym, and we are in the same friend group. We have a fb messenger thread, and they talk every day. I left the group twice. He re-added me the first time, and another friend re-added me the second time. I cannot financially afford to consider a membership at another gym (I currently have free membership at this one). He's being deployed to Romania at the end of the summer, so he shouldn't matter to me anymore.

I've said this twice already, and I'll say it again: I feel silly for posting. What we had didn't mean anything. I realize that now. It all seems so petty, and I should stop over-analyzing. Dating sucks lol. I think my problem is that I keep dating men who have different moral views and different expectations from a relationship. I do feel better though. Thank you all for letting me rant.
Look. Don't feel silly for posting. Did you read my post at post #11 too or you only read yardiff's post? It sounds like you accidentally skipped mine. In it I explain a possible reason for the issue, and it's not at all about pettiness or about you overanalyzing it. So please read it and let me know if it helped at all.

PS: I'd disable that feature of being re-added to the group. Ask your friends to not re-add you. Go to the gym at a different time.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Why are you unsure if you were clear enough on the first date about this? What exactly did you tell him, if you can quote it?
I told him that I was saving myself for the person I was meant to be with. I thought I was being clear, but in retrospect I can see how he would misunderstand. I tried several times to go further than I wanted him to, and I stopped him every time. He is a poor communicator, and since he doesn't speak up when something is bothering him I assumed he was just testing my limits but was ultimately ok with where we were. I have a thick skull sometimes when it comes to these things.

I would not want to comment on whether that was an actual motive of his, to make you jealous by going out with someone else. Maybe yes, maybe not. That's in general however not typical of an ISTJ to try and manipulate subtle feelings like that. Nah.

How does he act when he seems to get jealous?
He notices when other men stare at me, and he almost got into a fight with a group of guys on Halloween for doing so. If a seemingly aggressive guy got too close to me, he would place himself between me and that person.

I dunno what's with the sweet memories, is it intimate memories or more just friendly?
On New Years Eve, he told our friends about a time before we started dating... I spent the night at his house in his guest bedroom, and having a conservative background I felt awkward and left before he woke up lol. I'm an idiot lol. It was completely innocent; nothing happened. The way it started was so cute, but I think he's been around the block too many times to really appreciate it.

He also repeatedly brings up Halloween and brags about how he took care of me and almost got into a fist fight with those guys for staring at me.

He only shares stories when he's drunk. We're similar in that we both like to reminisce, but I do not reminisce when mutual friends are present.

This is not related to type, just some guys who are not emotionally aware enough about this issue (which is most of them, lol, and true of some girls too) will jump into the next relationship really fast. IIRC it's called a "rebound". That extra strong initial emotional reaction doesn't last long tho' and then it all ends.
Yes, I suspected so and asked him if I was a rebound. He denied this, of course. It ended because I noticed a change in his behavior during our last week, and I asked him to call me so that I could find out what was up. I'm not sure how long it would have taken him to end things on his own because I had to ask him several times what was wrong before he gave me an answer. Since it ended, I've gotten to know him as he is and without rose-colored glasses. I've realized how incompatible we are. He's a person of poor character, and someone like that would have made me very unhappy in the long run. Even if I did sleep with him, I know it wouldn't have lasted very long. With this in mind, I am thankful for the time we had together. It ended as quickly as it began, but I think and hope that I am wiser because of it.
 

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I told him that I was saving myself for the person I was meant to be with. I thought I was being clear, but in retrospect I can see how he would misunderstand. I tried several times to go further than I wanted him to, and I stopped him every time. He is a poor communicator, and since he doesn't speak up when something is bothering him I assumed he was just testing my limits but was ultimately ok with where we were. I have a thick skull sometimes when it comes to these things.
Yeah, this isn't a very direct statement though poetic. Just say you are waiting with sex until marriage and that this is non-negotiable.


He notices when other men stare at me, and he almost got into a fight with a group of guys on Halloween for doing so. If a seemingly aggressive guy got too close to me, he would place himself between me and that person.(...) He only shares stories when he's drunk. We're similar in that we both like to reminisce, but I do not reminisce when mutual friends are present.
Interesting, I guess he liked you a bit still but on the whole I agree with you with how it wouldn't have lasted long anyway. It's great that you lost the rose-coloured glasses. I wish you better luck with your next relationship.
 
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